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CEG\'er
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CEG\'er
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One thing that always bothered us about the MSDS dyno is that they did so WITH an AEM short ram, good enough for at least 10-15HP. So no, that gain you see is not just from the headers. It was also done on an ATX, which IMHO was totally lame of them. The CP-E dyno, by comparison, was done on a 100% bone stock car.
In any case, one the often mentioned things about the MSDS kit for the 6 is that the Y-pipe is not a direct fit and is cheap. Its often misaligned and needs to be modified, along with the alternator heat shield. Contours, fortunately, don't have this problem (or do they?) I believe Draxas asked MSDS to work with us to fix the problems, a "fix" came out, but it wasn't satisfactory to those that already owned the kit. That's MSDS' fault, not Draxas. The CP-E kit comes 100% ready for the 6 platform. Also, the y-pipe was designed by Magnaflow, kind of a plus in that department (although whether its worth the extra money, I digress.)
So if you want to do a direct comparison of actual parts, you would have to delete the cat ($109), alternator-bracket/pulley ($33.17), and O2 wire extenders ($36) which don't come with the MSDS kit. That would be $675 for the MSDS v.s. $1522. (Or $675 v.s. $1121 if you use the GB price.) (Note: You would need to modify both kits in this state to work on the 6.)
In conclusion, there are discrepancies in what MSDS is pushing, but yes their headers are much less expensive, even if you do have to do some modification yourself. Still, I take only 2 orders of the MSDS in the past 2 years v.s. 18 immediate orders a good indication of the things mentioned above that just aren't acceptible to most 6 owners.
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Joined: May 2004
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CEG\'er
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CEG\'er
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Originally posted by Y2KSVT:
BTW, the dyno graph you posted is on an ATX Mazda6. The graph posted by fastcougar was the same graph that Marty emailed to me of an MTX Mazda6.
Mark
So explain why no one else could reproduce MSDS' numbers on MTX Mazda6s?
Driving the Caliber
Side project: The LT-5 Fiero is being born..
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Hard-core CEG\'er
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The only true way to know would be to dyno the same engine in the same car on the same day running both sets of headers: Drive to the dyno with MSDS/CPE headers with the toer set in the trunk. Do 3 dyno runs and average them together. Let the car cool down for 30 minutes and then uninstall/install the other set and redo the 3 runs. That is the ONLY way to know and if done, I highly suspect that the MSDS headers will be within 5-10% of the CPE headers ... not bad for a 100% price difference.
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Joined: Mar 2003
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Hard-core CEG'er
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Hard-core CEG'er
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Originally posted by fastcougar:
The only true way to know would be to dyno the same engine in the same car on the same day running both sets of headers:
I fully expect that a comparison will be done at some point of similar cars with the different headers. That will tell the tale of which headers are worth the money. Given history as a guide, the pricing will come down for all and improvements will be made for competitive reasons. Something to look forward to all the way 'round.
I guess what I'm trying to say - competition is good!
Must be that jumbly-wumbly thing happening again.
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Originally posted by TourDeForce:
Originally posted by fastcougar:
The only true way to know would be to dyno the same engine in the same car on the same day running both sets of headers:
I fully expect that a comparison will be done at some point of similar cars with the different headers. That will tell the tale of which headers are worth the money. Given history as a guide, the pricing will come down for all and improvements will be made for competitive reasons. Something to look forward to all the way 'round.
I guess what I'm trying to say - competition is good!
I really could care less ... I don't own a Mazda 6 and until these prove able to install on the Contour/Cougar platforms, this thread is pretty pointless 
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Joined: Dec 2000
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CEG\'er
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If any of the 18 Mazda6s owners who have placed deposits for the CP-E headers live in SoCal, I would be more than happy to pay for them to come to the same dyno we used to dyno Loren's Mazda6s (the car we produced 199.xWHP with).
I drove the car for a few weeks, it was a beast, trust me. I took the car to a local Mazda6Club meet and took people for rides...they thought it was a beast.
Mods: Ghetto home-made Hot Air Intake, MSDS Headers and Y-Pipe, Ghetto 2.5" Exhaust system split into 2.25" dual mufflers in the rear. (this wasnt event our Draxas exhaust system)
Ideally, what I would like to do is get one of the customers in SoCal who has placed an order for a Mazda6 MSDS Header set recently, at the dyno on the same day as a CP-E Header equipped Mazda6. Then we can compare on the same dyno on the same day.
Owner
www.Draxas.com
15.09 @ 91.54(corrected, pre-SVT conversion, DiabloChip, and Injectors)
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I've spread the word Nik, someone is bound to answer 
Driving the Caliber
Side project: The LT-5 Fiero is being born..
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Originally posted by fastcougar:
Originally posted by TourDeForce:
Originally posted by fastcougar:
The only true way to know would be to dyno the same engine in the same car on the same day running both sets of headers:
I fully expect that a comparison will be done at some point of similar cars with the different headers. That will tell the tale of which headers are worth the money. Given history as a guide, the pricing will come down for all and improvements will be made for competitive reasons. Something to look forward to all the way 'round.
I guess what I'm trying to say - competition is good!
I really could care less ... I don't own a Mazda 6 and until these prove able to install on the Contour/Cougar platforms, this thread is pretty pointless
Ok guys,I'm going to settle this one now, since I will be doing this on mine and working with CPE. I have a dyno apt on Friday morning at 8:30 on a Mustang dyno. This is with a bone stock 99 CSVT with 40,000 and catback exhaust. Numbers will be posted afterwards. And when we get the longtubes sorted out, the same will be done.
Former - 98 CSVT E0 T-Red 4/4/97 #173 of 6535
Dear Santa
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My point is this: Their price for a "full" system (headers & Y-Pipe) is not less, BUT MORE than SHM's where when they where being sold. They have only proven marginal gains over MSDS considering the price difference. If you treated your car like a "business of horsepower", the Return On Investment just isn't there ... the hp per $ ratio is horrible. Don't get me wrong, I see the market & desire for long tube headers for our cars, but what's the point really if it costs an arm and leg ... we already have that with SHM!
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Originally posted by fastcougar:
we already have that with SHM!
I think you mean "had".
Matt
2002 Subaru Impreza WRX (WRB Stage 4+)
Old Rides:
1999 Sil-Fro SVT Contour 3.0L with goodies (Totalled 6/21/06)
1988 Bronco II (Sold)
You know you launch hard when you beat oncoming traffic through their own crosswalk lines.
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