Contour Enthusiasts Group Archives Forums General Troubleshooting 238 degrees?

My wife's 96 Se seemed to be running a bit hotter than normal today. Its normaly in the M of normal, today it was riding on the L. Both fans are working, the water pump and thermostat were replaced a couple of years ago.

We shot it with a IR thermometer. After driving across town and alot of stop and go traffic in 90* heat, the water going into the radiator was 238* and 216* coming out.

Is this high for a duratec? Should I be looking for a problem, or is this about right for sitting in traffic on a 90*+ day?

I studied "fan behavior" because of a failed waterpump and later the a/c in my Mystique. M on normal is where both of our Mystiques turn on the cooling fans (when the a/c is not in use), then the temp should drop. Fans run on low speed at that time. Fans go to High speed when the a/c is on, sometimes for a minute or so, drop back to low. Fans always run with a/c on. Do you remember if the new waterpump had (black or white)plastic or metal impeller wheel? Seems a recent waterpump should not have failed yet regardless, unless many miles have gone by, but check it first, along with coolant level.

Did the temp go down when the two fans kicked on? If it did, probably okay. If not, was there a CEL? Post if there was one.

Maintenance items.
When was the last time engine oil and filter were changed? Change if more than 3K miles or 3 months. If within limits, and level is low, add to �½ quart above high.

When was the last time the coolant was flushed? If more than 24 months, flush the coolant. What is the strength of the coolant? ($5 coolant strength gauge should help). (you may decide that this portion should go all the way to the bottom).

Then if that doesn�t work,

Other items.
When was WP replaced and who replaced it with what WP (metal, white or black plastic impeller)? And was the WP belt replaced too?
When was the thermostat replaced?

Per Haynes, your radiator and fans are working fine (216 F out). As for the 238 F after driving in stop and go traffic and 90 F weather, this is what I would do if it were my Contour with the temp gauge at L (high side of hot on gauge).

The WP might have a partially working impeller. It would work fine in highway speeds but not at stop and go traffic. Test by turning on the heater. If hot air comes out, could be a thermostat problem. If warm air comes out (90 F outside temp), then could be WP problem.
If can�t determine either, I would go to the next step,

Then coolant temperature sender. Per Haynes, if temp. gauge in dash reads hot after engine is started from cold, disconnect sender�s electronic connectors. If the gauge reading drops, replace sender.

Warm the car to normal operating temp (right after N), with trusty IR thermometer, check temp going into thermostat and temp coming out of thermostat. If the temps are close, then thermostat is fine. If not maybe thermostat is stuck on closed. Thermostat should start to open about 190 F and fully open at 216 (per Haynes). Or take out and put in hot water and test. If thermostat is faulty replace.

Then another maintenance item. If not changing WP, Coolant temp sender or removing thermostat,

When was the last time the coolant was flushed? If more than 24 months, flush the coolant. What is the strength of the coolant? ($5 coolant strength gauge should help).

These are the items I came up with. Others may want to chime in with more suggestions.

It appears the condition gets worse with the AC on. The fans run on high full time, AC on or off...

Oil is synth blend, 1 week old.

The coolant is 50/50 mix, about 2 years old.

Water pump is metal, replaced at the same time as the thermostat, about 2-2.5 years ago.

The belt was not replaced...

Gonna slap a thermostat in it, its too simple not to try.

Will report back....

It was the little bastard thermostat...it took about 35 minutes to replace it, including burping the system...also filled it with purified water from my reverse osmosis system and a can of redline water wetter...

Can't get a good judgement because its only 78* here now, but I dogged on it for about 20 minutes and it wouldnt get hotter than the "nor" range of normal.

Was it stuck closed? I hardly ever see the Turbo Coupes anymore. I remember looking at an Electric Red one once, just a couple years old. Many people swapped in 302 V8's in those. Not you, by your sig.

I'm experiencing a similar situation right now.

Previously, my car was warming up to L of NORMAL once getting off the highway or driving in city traffic. In 40-45 mph commutes it'd be around R. The low speed fan kicked in sometimes; and when it did, usually the temperature went down. The high-speed fan never kicked in. Last time I drove it that way I popped the hood and noticed bubbling in the coolant (not boiling; it went away as soon as I turned the car off). This problem began immediately post cleaning the engine, so water may have gotten in the sensors or something.

I searched and saw a recommendation by chongo to swap out the ECT sensor. My dad and I replaced the ECT sensor, thermostat, and waterpump (waterpump was unrelated to the problem; I just wanted the black-impeller out!), and changed coolant.

I believe this fixed my first problem - but since then, it's run almost consistently at A of "NORMAL", with bouts into L if you're sitting a while, or consistently at "M" if you turn the heat on. The low-speed fan kicks in after about ten minutes of driving the car, and the high speed fan not long after (although it won't if you keep the heat on). When the fans turn on, they blow cold air toward the engine .. I don't know if this is important, but it was mentioned in unisys's response in this topic. The upper hose leading from the coolant reservoir is warm but not hot; the hose beneath it is cool to the touch. There is a larger hose near the waterpump (leading from the radiator I suppose?) that is burning hot. The coolant reservoir no longer bubbles at all, and I "think" we got all of the air bubbles out of the car when we changed the coolant.

Any chance we screwed up changing the thermostat, or the replacement thermostat was fubar'ed to begin with? We used a 180 degree, $7 Duralast thermostat from Autozone ( link ). I actually bought a second thermostat last night thinking we had put in a 192 degree one, but it turns out they're the same one. The 180 degree thermostat is minimally supplied around here evidently, I got the last one out of two Autozones.

Or is there another possibility to this problem? I have received strong advice from a fellow trusted CEGer that the radiator may be clogged with scale and is only flowing at part capacity, or is bad altogether. He recommended a pressure test and verifying the radiator flow rate (things I assume I need to get to a mechanic to have done).

Also - is it safe to drive the car semi-long distances in this condition? My dad insists I'm an idiot for wanting to take this car out and potentially spending hundreds of dollars to fix this temperature issue. I'm going to anyway, as I am incredibly uncomfortable with the fans coming on so quickly, but till then I need to drive it 1.5 hours round trip to work daily (30-45mph commute), and starting next week 1 hour round trip to college (mostly ~70mph highway commute).

If you need clarification, please let me know. Thanks

(I think I replied to your post elsewhere, not knowing the waterpump was changed.) If it was changed long ago, I would change it again, and get a new thermostat from the Ford dealer. Flush the radiator, or replace it. The fans appear to operate correctly. Best to fix it, to avoid engine trouble.

Shoot, I forgot to include time frames. We did all that work last weekend (waterpump, thermostat, ECT, coolant), hoping to fix the first issues. It's been running warm since.