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I never insulted anyone in this thread, don't blame me for having a contrary, valid point to make based on facts.
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If the studs are not load bearing, what keeps the wheel attached to the hub then? The Force?
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Originally posted by weargle:
If the studs are not load bearing, what keeps the wheel attached to the hub then? The Force?
They exert force on the wheel and the hub face, but it is not the shear-strength of the bolts that support the vehicle. It's the friction between the two surfaces that does that. So, the bolts don't bear the load of the car.
Function before fashion.
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Originally posted by weargle:
If the studs are not load bearing, what keeps the wheel attached to the hub then? The Force?
Are you serious?
link and link which you posted, proves the lugs are not load bearing! That's the whole point of these equations!
Before you pop, remember that "load bearing" means supporting weight, by definition.
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Truthfully, I don't take things said on the internet personally. The anonymity inherent in message boards allows people to post things that they would never say face-to-face. 
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Originally posted by RogerB:
Originally posted by weargle:
If the studs are not load bearing, what keeps the wheel attached to the hub then? The Force?
They exert force on the wheel and the hub face, but it is not the shear-strength of the bolts that support the vehicle. It's the friction between the two surfaces that does that. So, the bolts don't bear the load of the car.
Correction, it is not the studs so much as the stud & nut combination that I was referring to.
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So? The stud/nut combination is still not load bearing, per that math you showed us.
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Yup, and since the seat is conical, unless something miraculous happens, it will bear that load multi-axial. Meaning (drum roll please) that the lugs play at least a part in holding wheel centered to the hub.
Based on the equations I furnished, which the other recognized as worthwhile enough to site when they saw fit, it is clear that the studs and nuts can hold the wheel centered. Even the "Senior Axle Engineer" said that the studs don't flex, so what is the point of centering rings?
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Originally posted by weargle:
Yup, and since the seat is conical, unless something miraculous happens, it will bear that load multi-axial. Meaning (drum roll please) that the lugs play at least a part in holding wheel centered to the hub.
Based on the equations I furnished, which the other recognized as worthwhile enough to site when they saw fit, it is clear that the studs and nuts can hold the wheel centered. Even the "Senior Axle Engineer" said that the studs don't flex, so what is the point of centering rings?
You really just don't get this, do you?
Let me lay it out very simply for you. You are saying that you don't need centering rings because the lugs will center the wheel. You presented us with these math equations to prove it.
The Reality:
1. If you are careful, you can get the wheel, especially a light one, centered without a ring. The nuts have enough centering force that under favorable conditions, they can get it very close. Someone who does this themselves, and takes just a little time to make sure it's correct will not have any problems. This is where you stop being correct.
The Math:
2. That math does not have anything to do with
a) the centering force of the tapered lugs
b) the mounting process whatsoever
It presents the condition of an already mounted wheel, and states that the force of the weight of the car is transfered to the wheels by the friction of the hub/wheel interface, not through the lug nuts. You obviously do not understand the equations at all, because every time you have cited them you have tried to prove a point that is not even mentioned therein.
The Problem:
3. When you mount a wheel, it can be centered uncorrectly for this reason: the friction between the hub and the wheel becomes very great as they are pressed together. Just before they are tight, they stop moving because the tapered lugs are not able to present sufficient centering force. If you keep them centered, then this will not be a problem. You do this by rotating the wheel and holding it up. Most people do this with hubcentric rings.
Stop trying to get in the last word and admit: rings are not 100% neccessary to get a wheel centered, but they are a good idea, because they make centering a sure thing.
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