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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 4,149
Hard-core CEG'er
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Hard-core CEG'er
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 4,149 |
Originally posted by 95Sleeper:
so if someone picks one little mod that throws them into a higher category, then oh well. I have 16x7s on my car, so I'm in STS, even though I could get spanked by an SVT in GS.
Just my ââ??¬0.02.
I love how a short throw shifter bumps you a class yet in "stock" you can run super sticky DOT tires. The shifter might save .0000003 seconds on that one shift into second yet the tires get you 2+ seconds. This is where the SCCA is completely whacked--a mod with virtually no measurable gain is illegal.
The SCCA is going to die if it doesn't wise up to the fact that their car classifications and allowable modifications are incredibly dated. Don't even get me started on IT and RX7's. Then there's the BEST class for newbies, Spec Miata, how long did it take for the SCCA to wake up to that 
-- 1999 SVT #220 --
In retrospect, it was all downhill from here. RIP, CEG.
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 7,117
Hard-core CEG'er
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Hard-core CEG'er
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 7,117 |
Originally posted by bigMoneyRacing:
Don't even get me started on IT and RX7's.
Sorry, but I've got to get you started on that. I have plans to get an RX-7, so what is the deal with those in SCCA??
Must be that jumbly-wumbly thing happening again.
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 4,149
Hard-core CEG'er
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Hard-core CEG'er
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 4,149 |
The fact that a 20+ year old car is *the* car to have. How does that make ANY sense? Automotive technology hasn't evolved in 20 years to eclipse the RX7?
It's a perfect example of how the SCCA is structured for the sole benefit of a few, well-organized members. Just like when the SCCA quickly outlawed the Z4 at the Runoffs after Miata owners got their panties in a twist when the Bimmers started destroying them.
-- 1999 SVT #220 --
In retrospect, it was all downhill from here. RIP, CEG.
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 4,140
Hard-core CEG\'er
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Hard-core CEG\'er
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 4,140 |
There is certainly a lot of difficulty in leveling the playing field in any arena, and it is impossible with automobiles. You could potentially organize classes to level stock cars, but then some take mods better... Autoxing is very, very biased. Start listing classes from either end of the spectrum in each class, and looking at the available mods, and it becomes clear that the rules are horrendously skewed. I don't like the cars I class against, but I can't see how to fix it. If you start making rules too tight, you end up with all the cars being nearly identical, like most pro racing. What I would really like? Contour only racing. 6cyl and 4cyl classes, and then a few mod divisions. But the contour will never get there. If you want model-specific competition, you need a BMW, Porsche, RX-7 or Miata. SCCA cannot, and does not try to provide a fair handicap for every Civic, Jetta, Contour, 6, Coupe GT, and F-350 Super Duty. The part that does suck is the resistance to cars that have the potential to blow away Miatas and RX-7s. They were great cars when they came out, but just aren't the top of their class today. (Sound like the 'tour?) If I had spent the last 10 or more years tweaking my Wankel, I'd hate the new competition. Well, that was a lot of ranting. I'm pissed that I'm not able to compete nationally against others, I'm pissed that I'll never have a shot at a local trophy because I have a near-stock car in STS. But I forgive and forget it all because without SCCA, I would never get to race my car at all. The fact that the local clubs have such dedicated (Mazda-driving) members that they can convince a stadium or airport to let us race makes me give them a carte blanche to dick me over on my competition. I give anyone more serious or involved than me full permission to [censored] about the rules, and I don't say that complaining about a CF hood rendering them impotent as a serious competitor is unfair, so don't flame my post too much... this is just how I feel.
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Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 7
Newbie
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Newbie
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 7 |
You wrote: Originally posted by 95Sleeper:
I'm pissed that I'm not able to compete nationally against others, I'm pissed that I'll never have a shot at a local trophy because I have a near-stock car in STS. But I forgive and forget it all because without SCCA, I would never get to race my car at all. The fact that the local clubs have such dedicated (Mazda-driving) members that they can convince a stadium or airport to let us race makes me give them a carte blanche to dick me over on my competition. I give anyone more serious or involved than me full permission to [censored] about the rules, and I don't say that complaining about a CF hood rendering them impotent as a serious competitor is unfair, so don't flame my post too much... this is just how I feel.
Perhaps you should take a different approach. We have been competing a 97 Mystique(Bone Stock) for 4 years and great success in G/S. The only cost is the tires(DOT).The car sticks like glue. The SCCA classes does not favior the V-6 Mystique, but with experience, and a great deal of good luck, my wife, came up Second Place in the TransLouisianaAutocrossChallenge. She was Second to a Miata in the Ladies Challenge. With the SCCA handicap she pulled off a win over a Dodge Viper. So we have no problems with the SCCA. It is very difficult to obtain good sites, here in Louisiana we are greatful for what we got.
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 751
Veteran CEG\'er
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Veteran CEG\'er
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 751 |
Originally posted by SVTatGT:
Because a turbo 3 liter and a atx zetec shouldn't be in the same class...
Why? Should the SCCA have 483 different classes? The rules are there so that they can be pushed to the limit. If you want to win, you buy a car that has been proven to win in that class and prep it as far as you can. If you bring a butter knife to a howitzer party, you will lose. Don't whine because you have a non-competitive car if you want to win.
That being said, learn how to drive it. Run what you brung if you will. Locally, you might do well, but the rules aren't designed for the local driver, they're for national competitors.
Look at GS, STS and ESP (where the Contours were located) nationally. There are zero Contours. Celica GT's, 1989 Civic Si's and Camaros/STi's rule there. In DSP, they will not beat E30/E36 BMWs.
But to address another posters lament about STS, you should embrace it. You have the opportunity to gain spring rates, camber and a rear bar, all for under $600 and *cannot* run DOT race tires. And this rawks. 
Whirling dervish of FFOG.
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,516
Hard-core CEG\'er
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Hard-core CEG\'er
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,516 |
I wasn't whining. I don't own an atx zetec, nor have i ever done autox. I was simply pointing out that an atx zetec vs a turbo 3l is not a fair race. Nothing more, nothing less.
BTW, welcome to last week.
Cameron
98 Black CSVT #2958
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 751
Veteran CEG\'er
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Veteran CEG\'er
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 751 |
Then why bother posting in an autocross thread? (You didn't have to try and be snippy either, so I'll take the high road and not respond)
Whirling dervish of FFOG.
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