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Joined: Aug 2003
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Hard-core CEG\'er
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Originally posted by SVTatGT:
Because a turbo 3 liter and a atx zetec shouldn't be in the same class...
I don't think that there should be any flexibility, because any stretching means everyone wants to cheat the rules. There are implications since you can go from local to national, and you can't work your way up through the ranks in different classes. I understand what you are saying, it sucks he can't be locally competitive, but he didn't have auto-x in mind when he build up his car. The whole point of the local races is to have fun, and you can do that without being competitive.
I'm not trying to pick a fight, I hate those threads, so don't think I'm calling you out, I just wanted to say I think the rules are great the way they are. It takes a lot of modding with auto-x intent to get a really competitive car, so if someone picks one little mod that throws them into a higher category, then oh well. I have 16x7s on my car, so I'm in STS, even though I could get spanked by an SVT in GS.
Just my ΓΆβ??Β¬0.02.
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 21,653
I have no life
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OP
I have no life
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 21,653 |
Sorry, Francis. (Not sure why you wanna call me that, but I reckon it's a mutual term)
I take comments like "you know" as being sorta smartass like. The only way I knew that a CF hood puts me in SM is because I read the rules, obviously no one told me Sunday when I was placed in DSP.
98.5 SVT
91 Escort GT (almost sold)
96 ATX Zetec (i brake to watch you swerve)
FS: SVT rear sway bar
WTB: Very cheap beater
CEG Dragon Run - October 13-15
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 21,653
I have no life
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OP
I have no life
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 21,653 |
That sorta makes sense. If you're trying to be competitive you're gonna stick to the rules of the class you wanna run in. You're also not gonna drive an atx zetec. 
98.5 SVT
91 Escort GT (almost sold)
96 ATX Zetec (i brake to watch you swerve)
FS: SVT rear sway bar
WTB: Very cheap beater
CEG Dragon Run - October 13-15
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 2,454
Learned patience the hard way
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Learned patience the hard way
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 2,454 |
I meant more flexibility in things like aesthetic mods or simple bolt-ons. Yes you can keep a strictly bone-stock class if you want, but a majority of people do a few aesthetic or simple bolt on mods like an open filter intake, CF hood, different rims and bang they get classed into something they are going to not be competitive in.
Basically I think the rules are really punishing a majority of the people that the SCCA is targeting to grow it's membership and really catering to the more hardcore guys that are there every weekend trying to squeeze every last 10th out of a particular setup to the Nth degree for one class.
Rick
Owner of 00 #1611 Silver (Totalled) 98.5 T-Red SVT #6180
Buckshot77@msn.com
Misc 3L parts for sale
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Joined: Jul 2000
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Hard-core CEG\'er
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CF hood can be lighter than stock hood. If you let people run CF hoods then in order to have a competive car you would need to have a CF hood (weight matters). The CF hood is the only one there that bumps you to a real hard class. The other mods would just put you into STS.
I have seen a different ruleset (either midwest of Canada I think) that give points based on different mods (like replacement hood +2 points, different wheels +1 point) and how many points you have determines your class I would guess they also class cars but I dont remember the whole ruleset.
If you are just a weekend person out there to have fun what do you care about what class you are in or how you place in the class you go into? Just run for fun with your friends and see who is the better driver.
I know at least one local driver that switched cars just to be competetive in Stock class AutoXing.
Beaten - 2003 MazdaSpeed Protege 29K <- broken hearted
Daily/Weekend Beater - 1990 miata 138K - AutoX every weekend = Adult driven on weekends
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Joined: Aug 2003
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Hard-core CEG\'er
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Hard-core CEG\'er
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Originally posted by Buckshot77:
I meant more flexibility in things like aesthetic mods or simple bolt-ons. Yes you can keep a strictly bone-stock class if you want, but a majority of people do a few aesthetic or simple bolt on mods like an open filter intake, CF hood, different rims and bang they get classed into something they are going to not be competitive in.
Basically I think the rules are really punishing a majority of the people that the SCCA is targeting to grow it's membership and really catering to the more hardcore guys that are there every weekend trying to squeeze every last 10th out of a particular setup to the Nth degree for one class.
Rick
I agree if SCCA want to be more friendly to the new generation of car guys (kids in hondas), they should allow more basic mods. I think STS does this well, and the CF hood is a weight reducer, so where do you stop? Can they replace anything with something lighter? I think the rules could use some tweaking to allow more street-oriented cars to run competitively, but it's also not good to make the rules more complicated. I say, let those who care, win. Odds are the people with the specialized auto-x setups are going to be unbeatable because they throw on their super-light 15s and rip it up every weekend, and they are very good at driving their car. If a hard-core auto-xer in an SVT swapped cars with a noob in an auto zetec, I bet they would still win. It's no big deal to me to have those two in the same class. If we all really wanted to win auto-x races, we could be driving celicas and honda civics with newer motors, like most of the winners do. The contour is not a winning auto-x car, but it is a really fun one, and that's all that matters to me.
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 2,454
Learned patience the hard way
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Learned patience the hard way
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 2,454 |
I think what I was more getting at was a lot of the newer generation while they are there for fun, are also there to have something to show for their effort. If you get creamed every time by some guy who does nothing but auto-x but you're stuck in his class becuase you lost 20 lbs off your front end by putting on a CF hood, then it's not going to be that fun for you. I think some more run what you brung type classes for those who choose to or for auto-x novices would be the best solution. Shoot, I'm an auto-x newb myself because it's been several years since I've done any and at that I've probably only been in 3 or 4 actual cone courses in my life. However, with the car setup I've got and the fact I know how to drive it pretty well I think I'd be able to hold my own.
I'm really just trying to advocate on the younger generation that the SCCA is trying to cater to, I think the rules need some leniancy or change. I like the idea posted above based on a point system. This is basically how we ran our high speed auto-x. Basically you had a certain number of items that once combined would bump you to the next higher class, but below that you could do various things.
Rick
Owner of 00 #1611 Silver (Totalled) 98.5 T-Red SVT #6180
Buckshot77@msn.com
Misc 3L parts for sale
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Joined: Aug 2003
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Hard-core CEG\'er
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Hard-core CEG\'er
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Originally posted by Buckshot77:
I think what I was more getting at was a lot of the newer generation while they are there for fun, are also there to have something to show for their effort. If you get creamed every time by some guy who does nothing but auto-x but you're stuck in his class becuase you lost 20 lbs off your front end by putting on a CF hood, then it's not going to be that fun for you. I think some more run what you brung type classes for those who choose to or for auto-x novices would be the best solution. Shoot, I'm an auto-x newb myself because it's been several years since I've done any and at that I've probably only been in 3 or 4 actual cone courses in my life. However, with the car setup I've got and the fact I know how to drive it pretty well I think I'd be able to hold my own.
I'm really just trying to advocate on the younger generation that the SCCA is trying to cater to, I think the rules need some leniancy or change. I like the idea posted above based on a point system. This is basically how we ran our high speed auto-x. Basically you had a certain number of items that once combined would bump you to the next higher class, but below that you could do various things.
Rick
I really like the idea of multiple items. It makes things more complicated, but would even it out. I feel sorta ripped for being in STS for my wheels. (16x7) I would definetly support a change to the SCCA rules along those lines.
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Hard-core CEG\'er
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Not so much an idea as just a different set of rules but dont go looking for the SCCA to be adopting that ruleset anytime in the near future (it has been suggested on the SCCAForums before).
Different SCCA regions do different things. The local region (D.C.) is more strict and only runs national classes. Other regions come up with their own classes that may or may not follow national SCCA rules (see the difference between ST2 and STS2 for example)
When I started AutoXing (last summer) my only mods were a Short Shifter and 16X7 wheels. This put me in STS. I got my ass kicked by half the class and suprised the hell out of the other half (ok I suprised the hell out of more than just the bottom half of the class) with what a basicaly stock car could do. I knew that to be competitive in STS I would need to get better springs than the stock SE ones and and better shocks than my 142,000 miles old ones. My car ended up dieing and I got a miata instead of upgrading my car this winter. I now know what mods to make or avoid making if I want to stay in different classes for AutoX.
Beaten - 2003 MazdaSpeed Protege 29K <- broken hearted
Daily/Weekend Beater - 1990 miata 138K - AutoX every weekend = Adult driven on weekends
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Joined: Oct 2000
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Originally posted by Kremithefrog:
Sorry, Francis. (Not sure why you wanna call me that, but I reckon it's a mutual term)
"Stripes?" Bill Murray? "Boom chakalakalaka...?"
Ah hell. "I'm gettin' too old for this shi...!!"
Function before fashion.
'96 Contour SE
"Toss the Contour into a corner, and it's as easy to catch as a softball thrown by a preschooler." -Edmunds, 1998
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