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Joined: Dec 2004
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 I have a very bad feeling about my '95 Contour SE MTX....
I was supposed to get "Ferret II" back today after some 60K maintenance... but the shop manager called and said I had a "dead engine". What this means isn't clear, but they mentioned timing chains, things that take 10 hours to get to... it didn't sound good.
I'm wondering if anyone has any idea what might have happened, based on the work they'd done and the bad symptoms the manager described happened when they started it. When I left it it was running beautifully and was obviously pampered, as the shop manager who drove it in for the work still agrees.... We've put a few new sensors in this year and it's been running great (always has as a matter of fact).
At the point when my engine "died" the jobs they'd done were flushing and replacing fluids in the following three systems: brakes and hydraulic clutch (share the same reservoir), power steering, and manual transmission. The manager says they hadn't drained the coolant yet. (I posted about a day ago in our CEG maintenance section what was being done and what synthetic fluids were to be used.) The shop is a tire shop and I use them for small repairs and maintenance. My husband does other stuff, plus some maintenance. I haven't had to locate a really good serious mechanic at this point...
Apparently the mechanic (who the manager says has 20 years experience and is a "master mechanic") were getting ready to move it to the separate bay where they do coolant flushing, but when he started it it made three loud thuds (like a fist hitting a fender hard) and sounded like it was trying to "start backwards"
The shop manager says the mechanic turned it off after the noise. They tried to research the engine, but it wasn't in their computer system  . So they called the dealership and learned it was an "interference" engine, meaning, the manager said, the engine is in tight quarters so damage is easily done. The manager said he didn't want to proceed without consulting more with the dealer, but they'd closed at noon without telling him (the manager didn't call me until 3:15pm on the now second day Ferret II was there). So... now I have to wait until Monday to learn anything more with huge worry over possible damage, which they're at this point not assuming responsibility for.
What the H*(&$#67(CKKK could have happened? Could this have something to do with them doing the brake & clutch flush together and refilling improperly? I had told them they shared the same reservoir and they were to do both. If anyone has any ideas or theories I'd sure appreciate it. It's awfully hard to swallow this could be a "coincidence", like a timing chain going on the spot. To date I'd noticed no timing chain noise, no rattling, and it just cleared emissions beautifully. I'm even wondering if I should have it towed elsewhere first thing Monday morning. I have such a bad feeling...
Thank you. So sad.... Contourless 
Lynn
'95 Contour SE MTX, electric red, "Ferret II"
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 7,117
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From reading your post, I'm still not quite sure when your engine got blown. Are you saying that the car ran fine when you brought it in for maintenance?
Frankly, it sounds to me like they left a wrench or sup'm under the hood when they tried to move your car, or they hooked the battery up backwards. There is only 1 reason I can think of that the timing chains in V-6 should suddenly go out of timing - if they turned the engine by hand in a counter-clockwise direction for some reason. They should know not to do that. I'm assuming you have a V-6 because the 4 cylinder is a NON-interference engine. No such damage should happen on the 4 banger.
Have hubby run up to the shop with a digital camera, lift the hood & check the battery to make sure that the (-) battery terminal is toward the driver fender side of the car. If it's not, you know they messed up and now you have proof with a picture of it. Otherwise, they probably put a new serpantine belt on the car & turned the engine the wrong way by hand in order to assit in installation.
Even without proof, if the car was running fine & blew up when in the care of the shop THEY should owe YOU a new engine. You should pay nothing but for the work you reqested done. You should also get reimbursed for a rental while they work on your car.
In my opinion, based on the limited information in your post, they screwed up & are trying to get you to pay for it. Find yourself a good attorney.
Must be that jumbly-wumbly thing happening again.
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Joined: Dec 2004
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Hi! Thank you for replying!! Yes, my '95 Contour SE MTX (60K) has a V-6 Duratec. You're right (thanks!), it's not clear yet the engine was fried, but their words were, "I have some bad news; your engine is dead", and the symptoms sounded bad - started it once, got three loud clunks like hitting a fender hard with a fist then the engine-running backward sound, so they haven't started it since and didn't want to even start it again without conferring with the Ford Dealer come Monday. Based on the symptoms and the work done (not a whole lot to go on) the more I can learn between now and Monday the better, so all thoughts/theories are welcome. I can't imagine why they'd mess with the serpentine belt, but it's good to brainstorm all possibilities! We put one on a bit back and my 'Tour was in only for a general visual inspection and a flush/refill of brakes/clutch, tranny, power steering, and coolant... but who knows... From info I've gotten through the Contour listserve it sounds like if the clutch was not bled correctly, so was not engaged when they started the car (if they started it in first, not neutral) this racket could occur. Perhaps they didn't properly bleed the clutch. Or what would happen if they forgot about it all together when they flushed the brakes? Your theory about the battery is interesting. What would happen if they hooked up the battery backwards? I'm thinking total electric fry, something possibly traceable. I think we'll be down there at 9am, Monday, to look the car over, to see if my husband can spot anything obvious. It sounds like a good idea to tote the digital, discreetly. My hope is there is some explanation besides permanent engine failure. The car ran like a top, and there was no indication of timing chain or other problems when I dropped it off. The service manager agrees it ran great, though is still saying this could be a coincidence. They've been decent in the past so I'm trying to give the benefit of the doubt, but definitely am keeping rental (turned me down on this one already)/attorney/moving the car elsewhere in mind! Thank you! Originally posted by TourDeForce:
Frankly, it sounds to me like they left a wrench or sup'm under the hood when they tried to move your car, or they hooked the battery up backwards. There is only 1 reason I can think of that the timing chains in V-6 should suddenly go out of timing - if they turned the engine by hand in a counter-clockwise direction for some reason. *snip* Have hubby run up to the shop with a digital camera, lift the hood & check the battery to make sure that the (-) battery terminal is toward the driver fender side of the car. If it's not, you know they messed up and now you have proof with a picture of it. Otherwise, they probably put a new serpantine belt on the car & turned the engine the wrong way by hand in order to assit in installation.
Lynn
'95 Contour SE MTX, electric red, "Ferret II"
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 753
Veteran CEG\'er
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How many miles on ferret II?
Dueling Duratecs
'95 SE V6 MTX 0 Mods
'04 Mazda6 S Wagon
'03 Kawasaki Z1000
But thus do I counsel you, my friends: distrust all in whom the impulse to punish is powerful!
Friedrich Nietzsche
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Joined: Dec 2001
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they owe YOU a new engine, doesn't matter what happened, if it worked going in, they worked on it, and it no longer works, it's THEIR responsibility to restore it to original working condition. . .end of story, and don't listen to their bs about 3 loud thunks and boom. . .sounds like they drained the oil, forgot to refill it, and heard piston slap from no lubrication in the engine. . .
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Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 4,693
Hard-core CEG'er
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Originally posted by ssmumich00:
they owe YOU a new engine, doesn't matter what happened, if it worked going in, they worked on it, and it no longer works, it's THEIR responsibility to restore it to original working condition. . .end of story,
This isn't true and only adds fuel to an already potentially explosive situation.
Not enough is known at this point to establish responsibility.
Jim Johnson
98 SVT
03 Escape Limited
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Joined: Dec 2004
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Originally posted by spgoode:
How many miles on ferret II?
Hi. Just turned 60K, and running like a top when brought in for maintenance service. The only problems I've ever had were two exterior water leaks. We replaced Banks 1 & 2 oxygen sensors this past year (had an intermittent CEL and codes indicated this was needed, as did my gas mileage, though car ran fine). For preventive purposes we replaced the waterpump (and thermostat while we were at it) at a little over 50K. We'd even fixed the coolant temperature temperature light so it didn't come on anymore... *sigh*... was really happy about that one.
Lynn
'95 Contour SE MTX, electric red, "Ferret II"
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 27
New CEG\'er
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Originally posted by ssmumich00:
they owe YOU a new engine, doesn't matter what happened, if it worked going in, they worked on it, and it no longer works, it's THEIR responsibility to restore it to original working condition. . .end of story, and don't listen to their bs about 3 loud thunks and boom. . .sounds like they drained the oil, forgot to refill it, and heard piston slap from no lubrication in the engine. . .
Hi. As much as I wanted to say, "It has to be you who caused this!" I tried to not be accusatory when I got the news, a part of me thinking it was too early to go there. I really try (though sometimes I forget) to give people the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise. As Jim suggests, I think waiting for more info is a good approach. Also, if the engine was run sans oil or coolant, or the car otherwise damaged, there should be telltale evidence to that effect.
Back over on the old-fashioned Contour listserve (which I still love though this site is great, too!) we've been discussing the possibility of air in the clutch being the culprit. That is, say, if they clutch didn't get bled right during the break/clutch flush/refill (they share the same fluid reservoir) and had air in it and wouldn't engage, and the car was started while in first gear (or between gears somehow), it might amount to starting it in gear with the clutch out, which could make some pretty colorful noises.
I'm hoping this is what happened. I wouldn't be thrilled by this scenario (well, maybe in a sense I would be!) though it would be better than having a badly damaged engine. If this were the case and they started it in neutral with the clutch in, it should turn over fine. But if what the service manager said is true, they turned it over once, heard really bad noises, and then tried to get more info about the engine and, it being New Year's Eve, hit a deadend until Monday.
Just came back from a New Year's gathering with extended family. My cousin is a very competent corporate business attorney, and a very down-to-earth, loving person. We agreed giving the shop the benefit of the doubt while they sort this out is probably the best approach (though she is willing to make a call if it comes to that). She told me a story about her maintenance shop. They'd changed her oil; 2300 miles down the road the oil drained out while driving and the engine was wrecked; turned out the filter had come off. She called the shop and told them politely what had happened. They offered to go find the filter to try to figure out why it had come off, telling her that if it had not put on properly they thought it would have fallen off ealier, but perhaps it was a bad filter or something else was wrong. She found the filter herself, and the shop looked up the serial number on it and took responsibility immediately for replacing the engine. Turned out someone there had put on the wrong filter. She ended up with a used engine with 12,000 miles on it (versus 160K) and the shop she went to for the new engine also replaced the clutch for the cost of parts ($130). It took a few days to do the job and the car has run great for quite sometime. She had never told her maintenance shop that she was an attorney, by the way, and she continues to go there.
We'll probably head down to the shop Monday morning with Janos' big shop manual and my Chiltons and Haynes in tow, to take a look at the engine and discuss the situation in a non-confrontational way. I may ask to sit in the car and feel the brake and clutch (though won't touch the starter with a ten foot pole!). They've always let me go back to see my car and talk to the mechanic when I've asked or had questions during previous service. Hopefully it will all have a happy ending... I'll keep you posted!
Thanks! Lynn
Lynn
'95 Contour SE MTX, electric red, "Ferret II"
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 79
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[Apparently the mechanic (who the manager says has 20 years experience and is a "master mechanic") ] I think they meant this master mechanic is 20 years old 
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Posts: 347
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I dont know US law, but in Ireland if my engine died while in the custody of someone responsible for repairing and servicing, I would most certaintly be getting a lawyer involved if the garage was not willing to replace/repair the motor, especially because you know what condition your engine was in when you left it into them. Whoever caused the damage will say anything to save their skin. The car has low miles and is pampered. The car was running great. My timing chains were replaced at 58k miles because they were loose for a while and in danger of damage. They made an awful rattling noise, and still did not snap! See what the garage intend to do to return the car to its condition when you left it into them. Unless you signed a disclaimer stating that the garage accept no responsibility of damage, I think they have no choice but to replace your engine. Good luck with getting your baby back in order 
1996 Mondeo 24v 4-door
twin janspeed stainless pipe
cat by-pass
Phase 2 RS bodykit
16" cosworth alloys
K&N RU3530
SVT TB/UIM/LIM
poly bushings
konis/bat springs/bar
Pioneer
MSDS
Indiglos
P&P heads
2005 Mondeo Zetec Tdci
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