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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 2,807
Hard-core CEG'er
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Hard-core CEG'er
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 2,807 |
Thanks for all that info Jeff. Funny I didn't see change spark plugs, run motovac or reflash PCM in there anywhere. It's their book make them live up to it Nate. If it was your dime everything would be done by the book.
99 CSVT Green/Tan
# 84 of 2760
Built on Wednesday, September 30, 1998
15.376 @ 92.00 MPH Stock
75,000Km
96 Contour GL
2.5L V6 ATX 170,000Km
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Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 140
CEG\'er
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OP
CEG\'er
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 140 |
They have a TSB on the PCM reflash: TSB 04-15-16 08/09/04 MALFUNCTION INDICATOR LAMP (MIL) ILLUMINATED WITH DIAGNOSTIC TROUBLE CODE(S) P0420 AND/OR P0430 FORD: 1997-1998 Contour MERCURY: 1997-1998 Mystique 1999 Cougar ISSUE Some 1997-1998 Contour/Mystique and 1999 Cougar vehicles equipped with the 2.5L engine may exhibit a malfunction indicator lamp (MIL) illuminated with diagnostic trouble codes (DTC) P0420 (Catalyst System Efficiency Below Threshold - Bank 1) and/or P0430 (Catalyst System Efficiency Below Threshold - Bank 2). ACTION Reprogram the powertrain control module (PCM) to the latest calibration using WDS release B32.5 or higher. Calibration files may also be obtained at www.motorcraft.com. Replacement of catalysts is no longer necessary to address the most common causes of this condition. WARRANTY STATUS: Eligible Under Provisions Of New Vehicle Limited Warranty Coverage And Emissions Warranty Coverage http://www.contour.org/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=trouble&Number=768473&Forum=trouble&Words=p0420&Match=Entire%20Phrase&Searchpage=0&Limit=250&Old=allposts&Main=768473&Search=true#Post768473Basically, they'd rather have YOU pay to reflash the PCM as opposed to REPLACING the cats for you...
2002 BMW M5
Carbon Black on Black
1998 Frost Silver SVT E0
17" Masitaly rims with Bridgestone Fuzion ZRi rubber.
133,000km
1996 Silver Ford Taurus SHO ATX
180,000km - SOLD!
1996 Midnight Red SE MTX
295,000km and a little squeeky.
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 2,807
Hard-core CEG'er
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Hard-core CEG'er
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 2,807 |
99 CSVT Green/Tan
# 84 of 2760
Built on Wednesday, September 30, 1998
15.376 @ 92.00 MPH Stock
75,000Km
96 Contour GL
2.5L V6 ATX 170,000Km
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Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 56
CEG\'er
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CEG\'er
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 56 |
Originally posted by Nate Payeur:
They have a TSB on the PCM reflash:
TSB 04-15-16
08/09/04
MALFUNCTION INDICATOR LAMP (MIL)
ILLUMINATED WITH DIAGNOSTIC TROUBLE CODE(S)
P0420 AND/OR P0430
FORD:
1997-1998 Contour
MERCURY:
1997-1998 Mystique
1999 Cougar
ISSUE
Some 1997-1998 Contour/Mystique and 1999 Cougar vehicles ...
I would never have this TSB done. Re-flashing the PCM to deal with the P0420/P0430 code is not going to improve the pre-cat efficiency at all. It simply lowers the threshold so that a low efficient pre-cat that was to fail the pre-cat efficiency self test before the re-flashing passes the test after the re-flashing. I believe this TSB is much more effective in kicking people having P0420/P0430 out of 13yr/130KKm waranty, by postponing the re-appearance of the same codes, than it is in solving the real problem. And the most lovely part here is that the bill is on customers.
I had the same P0420 code with my 97 Tour a few months ago at 135K km out of waranty so I'm on my own, no other codes but this solo P0420. I cleared it up and turned off the CEL and it didn't come back until 3 months after. I passed the emission test with flying colors a few weeks before the code came back. So I knew the not-as-effective pre-cats are not a too big deal in the emission control as long as the main cat works well. I built an MIL Eliminator and installed it on the bank 1 down-stream O2 sensor to fool the PCM, and the code hasn't come back so far.
1997 Contour Sport Duratec MTX
2000 Olds Intrigue GLS Sterling Edition
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Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 4,168
I am Canuckian
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I am Canuckian
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 4,168 |
I passed emmisions with flying colours too on failing Cats. I was new to the car and there was a leak in the EGR as I recall so right there not all the exhaust was making it out the tail pipe. Anyway. Point is. Clogged cats may not have much effect on emmisions as less gasses will make it to the sniffer. I'll bet in your case there is a tonnes of performance loss by this point and you may not even notice it. What you say about the reflash though is very interesting too. Sounds like something Ford would or could do. 
Green 96 mystique gs 4cyl mtx
16.9 in the 1/4 mile @102500 miles
95SE in Midnight Red MTX
MSDS headers and y-pipe
SVT exhaust
SVT UIM
Optimized se TB.
Full pre 98 SVT body kit
15.741 @ 87.73mph :)
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,017
Hard-core CEG\'er
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Hard-core CEG\'er
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,017 |
Originally posted by sylin:
I would never have this TSB done. Re-flashing the PCM to deal with the P0420/P0430 code is not going to improve the pre-cat efficiency at all. It simply lowers the threshold so that a low efficient pre-cat that was to fail the pre-cat efficiency self test before the re-flashing passes the test after the re-flashing. I believe this TSB is much more effective in kicking people having P0420/P0430 out of 13yr/130KKm waranty, by postponing the re-appearance of the same codes, than it is in solving the real problem. And the most lovely part here is that the bill is on customers.
I had the same P0420 code with my 97 Tour a few months ago at 135K km out of waranty so I'm on my own, no other codes but this solo P0420. I cleared it up and turned off the CEL and it didn't come back until 3 months after. I passed the emission test with flying colors a few weeks before the code came back. So I knew the not-as-effective pre-cats are not a too big deal in the emission control as long as the main cat works well. I built an MIL Eliminator and installed it on the bank 1 down-stream O2 sensor to fool the PCM, and the code hasn't come back so far.
Stylin 2 things I see wrong with your statement.
1 - It's 8yrs or 130,000km emmisions warranty.
and
2 - You say not to reflash the PCM becuase it lowers the threshold.
Well what do you think you did with the MIL Eliminator! 
I say get it flashed, then if it comes back, have them replace the cats.
As Nate's car is still within the warranty period get it done, then gut them later if all else fails once the warranty is up.
1996 2.5LT V6 Contour ATX My Tour+help/info pics
E0 rims, Gutted Pre-Cats,CTA Custom Exhaust & Intake, Diablo Chip.
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Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 56
CEG\'er
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CEG\'er
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 56 |
Originally posted by chongo:
Originally posted by sylin:
I would never have this TSB done. Re-flashing the PCM to deal with the P0420/P0430 code is not going to improve the pre-cat efficiency at all. It simply lowers the threshold so that a low efficient pre-cat that was to fail the pre-cat efficiency self test before the re-flashing passes the test after the re-flashing. I believe this TSB is much more effective in kicking people having P0420/P0430 out of 13yr/130KKm waranty, by postponing the re-appearance of the same codes, than it is in solving the real problem. And the most lovely part here is that the bill is on customers.
I had the same P0420 code with my 97 Tour a few months ago at 135K km out of waranty so I'm on my own, no other codes but this solo P0420. I cleared it up and turned off the CEL and it didn't come back until 3 months after. I passed the emission test with flying colors a few weeks before the code came back. So I knew the not-as-effective pre-cats are not a too big deal in the emission control as long as the main cat works well. I built an MIL Eliminator and installed it on the bank 1 down-stream O2 sensor to fool the PCM, and the code hasn't come back so far.
Stylin 2 things I see wrong with your statement.
1 - It's 8yrs or 130,000km emmisions warranty.
and
2 - You say not to reflash the PCM becuase it lowers the threshold.
Well what do you think you did with the MIL Eliminator!
I say get it flashed, then if it comes back, have them replace the cats.
As Nate's car is still within the warranty period get it done, then gut them later if all else fails once the warranty is up.
It must have been the moment that I accidentally spilled hot coffee onto my pants when I put "13yr"  -- my bad.
But the MIL eliminator is a slightly different story than re-flashing the PCM. This little device, with a working down stream O2 sensor, flattens out the O2 sensor output signals feeding to the PCM and makes it appear to the PCM that the pre-cat is working well even if it is not, or even if it has been gutted, so that you NEVER get P0420/0430 codes. Therefore, the MIL eliminator is like lowering the pre-cat efficiency arbitration threshold all the way to zero, while with re-flashing the PCM the codes are guaranteed to come back at a later time and you end up anyways with either A)gutting the pre-cats and installing the MIL eliminator or B)replacing the pre-cats.
I did plan to gut the pre-cats whenever it gets warm and easy to work outside. Since that wont happen in some months from now and I do need to prevent any other codes from being possibly masked by the failing pre-cats codes during this period of time, I put in the MIL eliminator in advance to gutting the pre-cats, in order to maintain a clear board.
I personally would not encourage having the re-flashing PCM done, as it simply is not dealing with the problem itself at all, though I do encourage anyone still under the emission waranty to have Ford pay for new pre-cats, and if that turns out no-go get the pre-cats gutted.
1997 Contour Sport Duratec MTX
2000 Olds Intrigue GLS Sterling Edition
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