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From Fordcontour.org... http://www.fordcontour.org/fcoforums/showthread.php?t=4025Well I am sad to say another 3L bit the dust... This morning I was on my way to Woodward when it started knocking... 1/2 mile later (looking for a spot to pull over) the rod was toast and my car was dead. Less than 400 miles. I am just not sure what caused it. I am afraid to pull it and fix it cause what's to stop it from doing it again? Same situation as what happened to my car. What is up with these engines? Something happening to them if they sit after running? Can't contemplate what that would be though. It seems the straight 3L's can't handle high RPM or something. Millions of ATX Taurus's running around w/o issue.
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Dang - after reading that thread, there appear to be a whole bunch of low mile 3.0's that blow up during break in?!? There were what 2 over there, we have yours, airnights (RIP), and that NECO fella, but I think his was timing chain shredagge.
I guess if / when I blow my 2.5 and go 3.0 I'll just order a new short block from Bill to be (hopefully) safe
97 Contour SE MTX
K&N 3530, UR UDP, 19# Injectors, mystery mod, FMS wires, Fordchip.com chip, SVT: TB, Flywheel, clutch, exhaust
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I believe they are already 'broken in'.... I think its because people don't take the needed precautions, but I have no real basis for this, just my thoughts. I'm at 7k on mine, although eventhing in the motor is/was brand new. Originally posted by ScottK:
Dang - after reading that thread, there appear to be a whole bunch of low mile 3.0's that blow up during break in?!? There were what 2 over there, we have yours, airnights (RIP), and that NECO fella, but I think his was timing chain shredagge.
I guess if / when I blow my 2.5 and go 3.0 I'll just order a new short block from Bill to be (hopefully) safe
Ryan
Trollin!
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Airnights went lean due to no tuning. We also know a bad batch of chains went in 3L's as well. Seems the hybrids are usually fine.
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I just about that you were saying your engine went again.
I see Terry seems to have some type of proprietary knowledge of this. It would be nice to find that out, but I don't see where he'd want to share it for free. On the other hand I can see where he shouldn't since he's in business too though.
Rick
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Pulling on to woodward...who is this guy? He must be local, I suppose I have never met him. Tod? 
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Originally posted by todras:
Seems the hybrids are usually fine.
/happy_dance = on
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Terry won't let the cat out of the bag because he could be sued I'm sure. Someone could potentially take the info to sue Ford. You'd tell the courts Terry told me. Well who told Terry? Guy inside Ford is in deep [censored].
-'96 SE MTX 3L
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Originally posted by MapOfTaziFoSho:
Pulling on to woodward...who is this guy? He must be local, I suppose I have never met him. Tod?
It's this guy. -Todd
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I'm more to believe it's a builder issue with these engines just with a few hundred miles on them.
Was the engine tore down and inspected first?
It's salt in the wounds if it's an oiling failure of a rear rod bearing. (FO contamination)
His post says very little except he had maybe 400 miles on it.
We know the engine itself can take high rpm. Be it 2.5L or 3L
So blaming that is just passing the buck.
Terry may know something is not copasetic with something but then why is there not a high failure rate of 3L engines. There has to be more then a million on the road in the US alone. That's more then the total Contour/Mystique production combined.
I have about 6000 highly abusive miles on my engine. (~10k total engine miles) It's pulling stronger then ever. (knocks on wood just to be safe)
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Originally posted by ScottK:
there appear to be a whole bunch of low mile 3.0's that blow up during break in?!?
There were what 2 over there, we have yours, airnights (RIP), and that NECO fella, but I think his was timing chain shredagge.
2 over there - don't know
Todras was not inspecting the block
Airnight was NO TUNING
Puck was mix matching timing components
That makes 3 builder error and IMO 2 "assumed" builder errors.
That's not the 3L's fault and yes I'm being a mean SOB because people like passing the buck just too damn much!
How many have 3L's that are running just fine???
2000 SVT #674
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a zetec turbo svt anyone? 
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Copasetic? 
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Originally posted by DemonSVT:
That's not the 3L's fault and yes I'm being a mean SOB because people like passing the buck just too damn much!
I'm not passing the buck. I don't think Terry is either. His engines ahven't had any problems due to him. The only issue was cpasut's but that was due to a chain going. His was a casualty to the bad batch. That's how the timing chain issue came about. The only other thing I can think of is poor conrod's. But as Demon stated tons out there running fine. Is their something about some of the 01+ conrod's? All I know is I'm going to have someone go through this engine & I'm throwing it in. If it dies then the car is getting parted out.
-'96 SE MTX 3L
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One more reason for me to save my money and leave my 2.5 in my car.
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Originally posted by Thinkmoto:
One more reason for me to save my money and leave my 2.5 in my car.
2.5s might have the same issue.
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sorry to say this but...... found on road dead
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Originally posted by mikey boy:
Originally posted by Thinkmoto:
One more reason for me to save my money and leave my 2.5 in my car.
2.5s might have the same issue.
yeah but it's alot cheaper to run what you have then dump $$$$ into a 3L and risk failure.
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Originally posted by dallasb84:
sorry to say this but...... found on road dead
TRAITOR!!! GET HIM!! 
Must be that jumbly-wumbly thing happening again.
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has anyone spun a bearing that has clevites in the engine?
Russell
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I was just reminded of something via a PM question about it.
I ran across it when building my 3L but didn't think about it until I was asked.
The instructions on the Ford manuals, when pertaining to the 3L, do not have the extra 90 degree rotation for the rod bolts listed.
That is crucial for retaining torque of the "stretch" bolts!
That could possibly be another reason for the failures???
All 2.5L instructions show the correct procedure and you should follow the 2.5L instructions anyway but if you were just looking at the 3L instructions thinking "the bottom end or whole engine is a 3L" then I could easily see making this mistake.
3L instructions read...
Install the connecting rod caps and bolts.
~ Tighten the bolts in two stages.
~ Stage 1: Tighten to 23 Nm (17 lb-ft).
~ Stage 2: Tighten to 43 Nm (32 lb-ft).
That's it!
2.5L instructions read...
CAUTION:
When assembling the connecting rods and connecting rod caps, it is imperative that bearing slots and tangs be located on the same side of the connecting rods.
CAUTION:
Connecting rod bolts are tighten to yield and must not be reused.
Position the connecting rod cap on the appropriate connecting rod and alternately tighten the bolts in three stages as indicated.
~ Stage 1: 23 Nm
~ Stage 2: 43 Nm
~ Stage 3: 90 degrees
The rod bolts & connecting rods are the same parts for both engines.
This information should probably be in a sticky about a 3L engine rebuild so folks don't use the 3L instructions.
2000 SVT #674
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atfer reading that thread on FCO i am like WTF. I dont mean any disrespect but Terry seems to know whats going on with this but just keeps saying "its a hit or miss" "its nothing mechanical"
Its creepy! I understand its a serious issue but WTF. Hopefully someone will let the cat out of the bag. For sanity sake.
Cougar V6 MTX: GMK Carbon Fiber Cold Air Intake : SVT UIM : SVT LIM : SVT TB : MSDS Headers & Ypipe : TruBendz 2.5" Borla Single Exhaust : Soild Front Motor Mount : & more
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Originally posted by GrandMasterKhan:
I dont mean any disrespect but Terry seems to know whats going on with this but just keeps saying "its a hit or miss" "its nothing mechanical"
You have to take everything from Terry with a grain of salt though.
I do agree he is chalked full of very good technical knowledge and experience. Don't get me wrong!
However try explaining how it can be "hit or miss"
I can understand a bad batch on a small production run of a certain piece, but hit or miss meaning a specific random occuring problem through quality control covering countless separate production runs going over a decade.
2000 SVT #674
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Like stated before he may have learned something from a friend inside, that if leaked out would get an employee or three in trouble. But saying hit or miss is frustrating.
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Originally posted by DemonSVT:
Originally posted by GrandMasterKhan:
I dont mean any disrespect but Terry seems to know whats going on with this but just keeps saying "its a hit or miss" "its nothing mechanical"
You have to take everything from Terry with a grain of salt though.
I do agree he is chalked full of very good technical knowledge and experience. Don't get me wrong!
However try explaining how it can be "hit or miss"
I can understand a bad batch on a small production run of a certain piece, but hit or miss meaning a specific random occuring problem through quality control covering countless separate production runs going over a decade.
Exactly....
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Originally posted by DemonSVT:
Originally posted by GrandMasterKhan:
I dont mean any disrespect but Terry seems to know whats going on with this but just keeps saying "its a hit or miss" "its nothing mechanical"
You have to take everything from Terry with a grain of salt though.
I do agree he is chalked full of very good technical knowledge and experience. Don't get me wrong!
However try explaining how it can be "hit or miss"
I can understand a bad batch on a small production run of a certain piece, but hit or miss meaning a specific random occuring problem through quality control covering countless separate production runs going over a decade.
ya know... if I had a shop specializing in duratech/cd27 platform cars, I'd think that this could be a very good marketing ploy.
I personally don't believe Terry is holding some 'golden nugget' of inside info. More likely, just feeding fire to the flames by infering so.
And lets face it, as far as the mechanic is concerned, the less educated the customer the better, right?
It's just a way to scare more ppl into beinging their projects to him... marketing ppl.... plain n simple.
-j.
96 LX 3.0L MTX - Black/Tan
K&N; 12lb F/W & uprated clutch
2.5" Pipe; SVT bits; Mystery Mod; Pull-tie Mod;
UN-tuned Mod; 3rd Gear Synro-Crunch Mod
280K on the Shell, and 40ish on the Motor... 1/4 mile??
Yeah, it's a fun daily driver...
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Terry's post this morning states that it is a "production issue" that Ford hasn't established a "start date" on, so an unknown number of engines are at risk. It creeps me out because I was thinking the same thing last night after I recalled something I had discussed with another friend who does engineering for a Ford supplier: Quote:
Will says: Posted on May 24, 2004 11:58 AM GMT
The Ford Five Hundred is a total piece of garbage. Trust me I'm very familiar with the engineering and the people behind it. Total Junk. Electrical = nightmare, and according to -------, Engine = Nightmare. Don't call it an up and coming car, it's not. Ford has repeatedly designed themselves into imposible situations and you can't convice them otherwise.
Five Hundred/FreeStlye = BAD
Austin says: Posted on May 24, 2004 3:25 PM GMT
Now why would the engine in the 500 be so bad? I thought it used the 3.0 Duratec engine. Same one in other Ford/Mazda/Jag cars.
Will says: Posted on May 24, 2004 4:01 PM GMT
Being manf in Cleveland engine Plant #1, new plant. He said they are doing stuff at the plant that goes contrary to existing design specs. Basically the plant, not engineering, is deciding how the engine should be built. So the final product, while being built to existing specs will be different. He seemed quite upset about it when I talked to him about it last.
I'll see if I can find out any details about these manufacturing changes. If there is any appropriate information to be shared I'll let you guys know.
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Originally posted by touredon:
Originally posted by DemonSVT:
Originally posted by GrandMasterKhan:
I dont mean any disrespect but Terry seems to know whats going on with this but just keeps saying "its a hit or miss" "its nothing mechanical"
You have to take everything from Terry with a grain of salt though.
I do agree he is chalked full of very good technical knowledge and experience. Don't get me wrong!
However try explaining how it can be "hit or miss"
I can understand a bad batch on a small production run of a certain piece, but hit or miss meaning a specific random occuring problem through quality control covering countless separate production runs going over a decade.
ya know... if I had a shop specializing in duratech/cd27 platform cars, I'd think that this could be a very good marketing ploy.
I personally don't believe Terry is holding some 'golden nugget' of inside info. More likely, just feeding fire to the flames by infering so.
And lets face it, as far as the mechanic is concerned, the less educated the customer the better, right?
It's just a way to scare more ppl into beinging their projects to him... marketing ppl.... plain n simple.
-j.
I disagree. While Terry is in the business of working on these cars semi-exclusively, it's not in his own best interest to not let the cat out of the bag unless it's to protect priviledged relationships. While many people like to think Terry is out there to take advantage of every single situation that comes by, I just don't think that's the case. He may be a bit rough around the edges and not have the polish of a used car salesman, but he's not out there trying to sell people on things that they don't need and he's not going to purposely have you waste an engine in hopes he gets the job of repairing it. By all accounts I'm aware of he has plenty of business as it is and as a one man shop, if you're in that situation you have to henpick what you work on so you don't want a ton of work coming all at once.
Heck I build and sell 3L engines for people, but if I had information that was helpful to those building their own as far as not blowing them up, I'd be sharing it. I gain nothing from not sharing it as those people are all ready building their engines.
Rick
Owner of 00 #1611 Silver (Totalled) 98.5 T-Red SVT #6180
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The Cleveland plant #1 did not reopen and start building Duratecs until the end of 2003 to early 2004. (Engines for the 05 model year!)
So how does that effect any of the engines in question???
Seriously now folks!!!
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Excellent info Demon! This should be added to the 3L info thread.
Must be that jumbly-wumbly thing happening again.
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Very true Buckshot. I asked Terry if he would go through my 3L before I install it. I don't think he wants to work on any Duratecs any longer was the word I received. So someone tell me how this benefits him? 
-'96 SE MTX 3L
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I figured it out after Terry posted up the zircon comment on FCO. Here's the long and short of it and it truly explains a lot when you review the common failures of our motors.
Basically Zircon is part of the casting material they use on these motors and through some flaw in the design process is being left in trace amounts even after cleaning and machining. I'm guessing it's most likely lightly embedded in the surface of the aluminum and stuck in passageways that can't be cleaned by any normal process. Over time the material breaks loose and gets embedded in everything from bearings to lifters causing myriads of problems that on the surface all resemble oiling issues i.e. spun bearings, stuck lifters, etc.
I've personally seen this in a 3L head on my car. I pulled one of the oil feed plugs where the vortech gets it's feed on the head and found almost 1/2 teaspoon of sand pressed up against the drain plug. I was disheartened to see it but until now had dismissed it as a strange anomolly. In any case the sand circulating or lodging in different places would definitely explain a lot about why this is truly a hit or miss type problem.
Rick
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So you are saying all the Cosworth engines fail this same way then.
Any engine with the Cosworth casting process actually.
How many decades does that cover? At least 2 right...
This is opposed to regular engine castings which use silica instead of zircon right???
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No, I'm not saying it's a flaw in the cosworth process at all. I'm saying it's a flaw with either a particular set of molds or this particular engine design. If it were a flaw in the Cosworth process in general it wouldn't still be in use. I think this is a flaw in this particular engine family.
Rick
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ugh, if this was proveable, looks like Ford would be out of ALOT Of money for the number of engine failures that have resulted from fine-particulate build up in engine components. . .
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Terry was nice enough to respond to me by email. (Thanks) I solid gesture and his tone and details seemed spot on.
I believe you may be getting close Rick. I had another idea myself that would go right along with your line of thinking.
Maybe my previous statement could be turned around and that's why the Cleveland #1 plant spent $650 million on new molding equipment and such???
Either way it's not a nice thing to think about.
Glad my Duratec is running strong...
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Originally posted by DemonSVT:
Maybe my previous statement could be turned around and that's why the Cleveland #1 plant spent $650 million on new molding equipment and such???
what was the date that the new equipment was put online? was the method of casting previous to the "change-over" (lost foam) better? how many pre-98s suffer from the same spun bearing issue?  did ford go a cheaper route in the post 98 duratec and in turn screw themselves and us?
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So is THIS now the "leading" theory to explain spun bearing in both 2.5 & 3.0 Duratecs....not crankwhip, not lack of oil drains in the heads, but whether or not the engine mold for your particular motor's run had too much free zircon sand??
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Originally posted by DanNx:
"leading" theory to explain spun bearing in both 2.5 & 3.0 Duratecs....not crankwhip
It never has been crank whip. I was shouted down from HIGH heavens when I told terry he was wrong. I was working for 8 months with the SVT guys the Duratec design guys and 6 Sigma guys from deep within Ford.
Personally I give anything terry says a D+ grade right from the start. He has never given me any concrete info to support his claims. He has never been able to deny any of the problems my car had and the results that ths SVT/and other FoMoCo guys came up with.
I have my own feelings about duratecs, and most of their failures, I also have the word of one of the head designers. Its NOT crank whip, and at least in my own personal enigne its not "abrasive" buildup.
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Originally posted by DemonSVT:
Maybe my previous statement could be turned around and that's why the Cleveland #1 plant spent $650 million on new molding equipment and such???
ding ding ding that sure sounds like a dead giveaway to me.
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im glad to have a 99 3L block, with a total rebuild on it 
Russell
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Man i should have bought a honda 
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Cleveland Engine Plant #1 or #2 do not cast the blocks. The blocks come from the Windsor Aluminum Plant. For reference see this link
Also, Cleveland #1 is strictly an engine assembly plant right now for 3.0L engines for the Ford 500 and Mecury Montego. There's no casting.
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I've been following this and the post on FCO. I think we should set up a chart or something, to find the build dates of the engines that have failed, and engines that are ok so far. It seems like we might be able to narrow this down if we had production dates (approx. anyways) of good/bad engines.
Good idea??
Maybe its luck of the draw now, but if we put the pieces together, we may be able to try to figure out what months were bad, etc.
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Learned patience the hard way
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Originally posted by Russell-3L:
im glad to have a 99 3L block, with a total rebuild on it
Nothing really to be glad about. Unfortunately since the start date of the problem is unknown, all V6 duratecs are under suspiscion. As far as the full rebuild goes, that doesn't clean out any particulates that may be semi trapped yet in the interior passages.
Rick
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Originally posted by 99MystiqueATX:
I've been following this and the post on FCO. I think we should set up a chart or something, to find the build dates of the engines that have failed, and engines that are ok so far. It seems like we might be able to narrow this down if we had production dates (approx. anyways) of good/bad engines.
Good idea??
I think so. Lets gather our data and see if there's a pattern.
I personally bought a brand new shortblock from Bill Jenkins which has about 5000 miles on it and is still running strong in a hybrid setup. I beleive my build date on the block was April of 2003
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Argh! Now I gotta find out what the build date was of my 3L. It's a 2000 Taurus block. Had 11k miles when I bought it and have put about 19k miles on it since it's been in my SVT.
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be sure to include both the 2.5 and 3.0 Cougar owners (NECO) in the survey...
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Has anybody that has had a "spun" bearing done an oil analysis. Surely if sand was the issue it would show up in the oil. I'm sure its some type silicate not your normal beach sand, and would be noticed.
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I did awhile ago on my 2.5L. I'll have to dig that up. I have it somewhere and look at it. Originally posted by livinsvt:
Has anybody that has had a "spun" bearing done an oil analysis. Surely if sand was the issue it would show up in the oil. I'm sure its some type silicate not your normal beach sand, and would be noticed.
Ryan
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Originally posted by livinsvt:
Has anybody that has had a "spun" bearing done an oil analysis. Surely if sand was the issue it would show up in the oil. I'm sure its some type silicate not your normal beach sand, and would be noticed.
Would this not 'prove' the theory one way or the other?
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It would help with it believe. They send you a breakdown of all the elements found in your oil with percentages, and then tell you what each of the elements shows... Originally posted by touredon:
Originally posted by livinsvt:
Has anybody that has had a "spun" bearing done an oil analysis. Surely if sand was the issue it would show up in the oil. I'm sure its some type silicate not your normal beach sand, and would be noticed.
Would this not 'prove' the theory one way or the other?
Ryan
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Originally posted by RTStabler51:
I have it somewhere and look at it.
Originally posted by RTStabler51:
It would help with it believe
Your english is really slipping since you left Indiana. What are they teaching you down there? 
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I know. I've noticed that alot lately in my posting. I think my brain works faster than my hands can type..... Originally posted by Y2KSVT:
Originally posted by RTStabler51:
I have it somewhere and look at it.
Originally posted by RTStabler51:
It would help with it believe
Your english is really slipping since you left Indiana. What are they teaching you down there?
Ryan
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Originally posted by RTStabler51:
I think my brain works faster than my hands can type.....
You always said you were quick with your hands.. Or did you just say hand 
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Originally posted by livinsvt:
Has anybody that has had a "spun" bearing done an oil analysis. Surely if sand was the issue it would show up in the oil. I'm sure its some type silicate not your normal beach sand, and would be noticed.
Silica/Silicon is a listed element.
On my 2.5L the Silicon readings were always right at the normal range.
Zircon is not a specific thing they look for.
Most likely it would just show up in the insolubles table as a parts per million count.
You might be able to ask for it to be a "counted" element???
However if these small granules are visible to see they'd never make it past the oil filter. That or collect in low pressure areas like the heads maybe.
Makes me want to cut apart my filter at the next oil change...
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Don't tell me you have a friggin micorscope in your garage to Dr. Greg... Originally posted by DemonSVT:
Makes me want to cut apart my filter at the next oil change...
Ryan
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Originally posted by DemonSVT:
Makes me want to cut apart my filter at the next oil change...
On the diesel sites I visit daily. Most of the owners send ther oil out for analysis and they cut apart there filters or send them out too. the first few oil changes alot say they get high silicates readings in the oil, but after break in etc they drop off alot. I know the fuel filters are always nasty though  I think this would be an excellent idea to check filters and oil.
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I was told that it would not make it all the way into the filter. With that said - Even if it did it would be passing through the entire system to get there. That would make sense if the problem is after the filter location in the oil gallery and before the oil drains. (which feed the pan/pickup) That means this material could defintely do it's damage before it circulated back to the filter. It it even made it that far without collecting somewhere. Now the hit to miss rate must be extremely low but even still that's a crazy thing to "miss" 
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where do you get an analysis
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Originally posted by DemonSVT:
I was told that it would not make it all the way into the filter.
With that said - Even if it did it would be passing through the entire system to get there.
That would make sense if the problem is after the filter location in the oil gallery and before the oil drains. (which feed the pan/pickup)
That means this material could defintely do it's damage before it circulated back to the filter. It it even made it that far without collecting somewhere.
Now the hit to miss rate must be extremely low but even still that's a crazy thing to "miss"
yeah I read Terrys post on FCO. Thats a damn shame This is a real humdinger of a problem.
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From my hometown.. Blackstone LabsOriginally posted by dallasb84:
where do you get an analysis
Ryan
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Originally posted by livinsvt:
Has anybody that has had a "spun" bearing done an oil analysis. Surely if sand was the issue it would show up in the oil. I'm sure its some type silicate not your normal beach sand, and would be noticed.
I cracked a bearing... somehow... LOL
and on my last oil change, I had plenty of particulate
"sand" in my oil. I'm actually thinking of going back to my
stock airbox and taking off the KKM for a bit.
Which BTW has been regularly maintained, with cleaning and oiling.
It could be my cold air feed from the ground.
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Originally posted by Eric Ford:
I had plenty of particulate
"sand" in my oil. I'm actually thinking of going back to my
stock airbox and taking off the KKM for a bit.
Which BTW has been regularly maintained, with cleaning and oiling.
It could be my cold air feed from the ground.
I'd believe an intake leak or damaged/improperly oiled filter before it passing through the filter like that.
I've had many JOAP samples sent in and never had any high silicon readings.
I've run an open air K&N with a forced fender air draw for years.
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Wow, this news sucks... I would almost take a few thousand mile salvage engine and totally check the oil passages for sand over buying a new engine, just so that the oil had a chance to remove any really loose sand. Remove and replace all of the head plugs, remove and replace the mains/girdle/etc and clean as needed. A really good cleaning with compressed air and maybe a little digging inside the passages with a piece of wire clothes hanger perhaps... It would at least improve your chances...
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Originally posted by Eric Ford:
I cracked a bearing... somehow... LOL
and on my last oil change, I had plenty of particulate
"sand" in my oil. I'm actually thinking of going back to my
stock airbox and taking off the KKM for a bit.
Which BTW has been regularly maintained, with cleaning and oiling.
It could be my cold air feed from the ground.
Yea I believe what Demon said there, I am sure its not the sand we are looking for.
But another thing, how does sand and hard right turns equal bearing failure? I understand the right turns. But I am not sure how the sand could become unloged so quick and flow downstream. It would need alot of oil to help it move, and if there is oil there than I would assume it would protect the bearing, Unless the sand is trapping the oil and not letting it get to the bearings
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Originally posted by livinsvt:
It would need alot of oil to help it move, and if there is oil there than I would assume it would protect the bearing,
Sand in the oil no matter what kind of oil is bad period!!!!Instant internal failure..I've seen the results of collapsed air intakes on ATV's...Complete carnage of a motor in minutes. I think some are getting off lucky with just a spun bearing or 2. Hell of alot cheaper then a complete motor rebuild.
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On the fordmondeo.org site, there are not many Mondys that have spun bearings. But....There are TONNES of V6's that have had the head gasket replaced. Including mine.... 
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So is the sand issue not a problem for the mondeo block?...being that they're cast in a different place (i'm assuming).
So is this a solution for the guys over here?
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Originally posted by Ronan:
...there are not many Mondys that have spun bearings...
OK. If this is true in that there is very little or no bearing problem accross the pond, would you not be able to conclude that it's not the casting process at all?
It seams to me that if the Cosworth casting process is receiving the blame, it'd be across the board wouldn't ya think?
Is this fact? 24V Mondeos don't have the same degree of bearing problems as North American cars?
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Originally posted by Thinkmoto:
]
Sand in the oil no matter what kind of oil is bad period!!!!Instant internal failure..I've seen the results of collapsed air intakes on ATV's...Complete carnage of a motor in minutes. I think some are getting off lucky with just a spun bearing or 2. Hell of alot cheaper then a complete motor rebuild.
I know this, but I don't understand how all of a sudden the sand can just jump either from the gallies or were ever and reach the bearing quickly, i.e. hard right turns. Its not like the oil is all of a sudden going through those passage ways on just the hard turns. Though this maybe all irrevelant as that may have been a totaly different issue, i.e. updated oil pans. Everything is specualtion. Hopefully one day will find an answer, or better yet Ford 
Originally posted by touredon:
Originally posted by Ronan:
...there are not many Mondys that have spun bearings...
OK. If this is true in that there is very little or no bearing problem accross the pond, would you not be able to conclude that it's not the casting process at all?
It seams to me that if the Cosworth casting process is receiving the blame, it'd be across the board wouldn't ya think?
Is this fact? 24V Mondeos don't have the same degree of bearing problems as North American cars?
Maybe there is sand in the water passages over seas and the water is not going to the head, and there for blowing headgaskets . Or maybe Ford America cheapen the process over here in several ways and our molds are bad, likely
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You folks are lumping multiple problems together. The 2.5L has the oil starvation problem. Hence the right hand sweeper failures , multiple revised oil pans, oil pickup, crank windage tray, oil dipstick, etc. The 3L block has the suspected zircon problem from the 3L Duratec mold. (it's the mold not the actual process that is "suspect" ) Also it's only a casting range of an unknown time frame. It is not every single one that has the small chance for this contamination. Brad's advice is likely the best insurance. Buy a block with some miles on it and do a full tear down and cleaning. It would be the best way to reduce the chance of being a "hit" Personally I saw nothing in my block when I had it apart nor when I cleaned out the passages. I'd sure like to keep it that way.
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I was under the impression that both 2.5 and 3.0 blocks were suspect, aren't both bearing failures in the same spot .
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Originally posted by livinsvt:
1. I was under the impression that both 2.5 and 3.0 blocks were suspect
2.aren't both bearing failures in the same spot .
1. That's not the impression given.
Also they do not even use the same molds because the block castings are different.
2. No specific bearing failure is labeled for the "suspected" zircon failures. Nothing has even been proven regarding the handful of 3L failures posted in the net. (hence my whole passing the buck comment and pointing out the 3L rebuild instructions are wrong when it comes to rod bolts)
Going by what information is available it would cause a main bearing failure not a rod bearing.
The 2.5L oil related failures are on either of the last 2 rod bearings.
#6 is the most prevalent and that makes sense since it's the first to lose oil when pressure drops.
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THAT is the problem!...no known 'batch' or start point, be it 3.0 OR 2.5!!!!!Time to gets some QC engineers and hang em out!!!!...can you guss at the thousands of engines that may have this issue...and the owners out of warranty!!!! ...I think the 'who knows' statement still agrees with it being hit or miss....there are no rules of thumb to go by.Most 2.5's died between 45.85,000, will it be the same on a 3.0?...who knows...but I can tell you that some Escape 'new' vechicles died with sand as low as 5,000.... Demon Terry seems to think otherwise about the 2.5L or am I reading you him wrong????? I personally feel both 2.5L and 3L are both doomed motors no matter what.
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Originally posted by todras:
Originally posted by DemonSVT:
That's not the 3L's fault and yes I'm being a mean SOB because people like passing the buck just too damn much!
I'm not passing the buck. I don't think Terry is either. His engines ahven't had any problems due to him. The only issue was cpasut's but that was due to a chain going. His was a casualty to the bad batch. That's how the timing chain issue came about. The only other thing I can think of is poor conrod's. But as Demon stated tons out there running fine. Is their something about some of the 01+ conrod's? All I know is I'm going to have someone go through this engine & I'm throwing it in. If it dies then the car is getting parted out.
I don't know, you tell me.
I haven't thrown a rod or spun any bearings even though I live in hot climates and run a thicker than recommended oil.
I have tested out 3 sets of connecting rods, 98, 99 and 01.
None have broke. These last set have sustained 330 ft-lbs of torque and up to 7000 rpms. I tuned it back down to around 300 ft-lbs when I left just so the tires weren't shredded but still not an issue.
I take take it easy on my motors but I take care of them.
This is probably just some sensationalism brought on by a premature ejaculation from some skeptical data.
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Originally posted by DemonSVT:
I was told that it would not make it all the way into the filter.
With that said - Even if it did it would be passing through the entire system to get there.
That would make sense if the problem is after the filter location in the oil gallery and before the oil drains. (which feed the pan/pickup)
That means this material could defintely do it's damage before it circulated back to the filter. It it even made it that far without collecting somewhere.
Now the hit to miss rate must be extremely low but even still that's a crazy thing to "miss"
Really though, how significant do you think it would be? Many of these engines being used here are AFTER they have been swapped hybrid or not and after the lower end has been pulled apart and new bearings put in. They are used and have been broke in already in many cases with just some new bearings and maybe new rings thrown in. No one has posted any significant bearing issues for engines that haven't spun a bearing and there is very little evidence of scratching on the crank journals. I've seen what grit does to engine bearings and it either embeds itself into the bearing and proceeds to scratch the hell out of the crank or it just scratches the hell out of the crank on it's way around. Also you can't expect grit that is pumped through the passages to really cycle through the oil more than once. Small amounts of the grit will be left in the heads and pan and the oil suction is unlikely to pull most of it up again. IF it passes the oil filter then it is small enough to pass through all the bearing tolerances and may not cause much wear if any. So I don't see this holding all that much weight.
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Me, with my very limited knoledge compared to you guys, was thinking the exact thing as warmonger. I can understand a failure on first startup where the grit and stuff might have been sitting there, but once it is in the oil shouldn't the oil filter catch it all? If not, whats the point of having an oil filter?
"Moore has also accused the American people of being the stupidest, most naive people on the face of the Earth. And after last weekend, he's got the box office numbers to prove it!"
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Originally posted by 99blacksesport:
Me, with my very limited knoledge compared to you guys, was thinking the exact thing as warmonger. I can understand a failure on first startup where the grit and stuff might have been sitting there, but once it is in the oil shouldn't the oil filter catch it all? If not, whats the point of having an oil filter?
Nevermind, I got my (ours, warmonger?) answer here:
Originally posted by Terry Haines:
...need to clarify something here Re:location of the sand that does the damage.The sand is in the oilways that are AFTER the oil filter and before the bearings.Its been suggested that an oil filter check will give 'early warning'...not so...the sand is added on the pressure side out of the filter.....if it were on the 'in' side we wouldn't have an issue as the filter would trap it ...Re:in the pressure line from the pump to the filter inlet...Sorry guys but I wish it was there too!
"Moore has also accused the American people of being the stupidest, most naive people on the face of the Earth. And after last weekend, he's got the box office numbers to prove it!"
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Does Anyone Have any pics of the bearings that have failed...if so lets take look at these and compare the differences...Perhaps they will all show the same type of failure...We can then put a sticky on the thread for trouble shooting the different bearing failures and their characteristics....I believe the haynes manual (or is it Chiltons??) have these pics in their books...
CSVT E0 3L
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lets look at it this way,
taken for the movie "fight club"
ford screws up designing both the 3l and the 2.5
"X"x"Y">"Z"
x=cost to fix
y=number of proven complaints
z=cost of a recall and legal costs
since the problem is a few years old and kind of isolated to certain owners the chance of ford even coming out and saying there is a problem is slim. that might explain why Terry wont say anything. since the problem hasnt been publicised by the media or consumer reports and since not all motors are spinning bearings that would keep the cost of fix and number of complaints below the price of a national and/or worldwide recall. i think what might need to happen is find out how to fix this problem with what we have. will the baffled oil pans help? design a better way to lubricate the main caps? maybe pressurized line routed into and through the pan that squirts even more oil onto the bearings might be good idea to fix the lubrication problem. if its sand then how many engines are doomed to failure becasue of a mold issue. how can we fix this. is there a way to filter oil as its pumped into the oil pick up tube? maybe these are areas to look at. or people should start taking there valve covers off looking for such problems and documenting and sending facts to a consumer reports company. let me know if this is a good idea or i just had another fucktard relapse.
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Originally posted by dallasb84:
i just had another fucktard relapse.
Well the formula part adds up (typical big business) but everything after that does not come close.
Matter of fact most of your ideas go against the information already posted and the others...
2000 SVT #674
13.47 @ 102 - All Motor!
It was not broke; Yet I fixed it anyway.
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Chalk up another 2.5L SVT motor to the spun bearing club. i just tore apart the car I bought and it's got a nice spun rod bearing, Fugger is toast and the crank too...I think
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i would say start a petition to car and driver documenting all the known cases so far. maybe that will reflect on consumer reports and ford might get mad.
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Originally posted by Thinkmoto:
Chalk up another 2.5L SVT motor to the spun bearing club. i just tore apart the car I bought and it's got a nice spun rod bearing, Fugger is toast and the crank too...I think
Go through it and look for sand!
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Originally posted by Thinkmoto:
Chalk up another 2.5L SVT motor to the spun bearing club. i just tore apart the car I bought and it's got a nice spun rod bearing, Fugger is toast and the crank too...I think
will you be joining the 3L club?
Russell
Oval Port 3L Nearly Done
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Originally posted by Russell-3L:
will you be joining the 3L club?
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Originally posted by Dragonfly:
Just so I can take the guessing out of this, what exactly is lame?
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Let your imagination fly, but pretty much anything that has to do with the way the 2.5's and 3.0's are engineered.
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So you're saying that your engine, in your own car, is lame? List of Jackasses 1: SalKhan 2: Nimrod 3: Dragonfly Anymore takers? 
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Yes I am saying that.
Main reason im selling it Thursday.
Should have known when I saw the Troubleshooting forums lol
There comes a time when I need to grow up and stop dumping more money into a car that is known for breaking. Oh wait I could be like some people and sink thousands into a lemon and then brag about how awsome it is. Then cry in the Troubleshooting forum about how it breaks.
Dont get mad at the fact that I make better decisions.
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Originally posted by 18psi2300:
Originally posted by Thinkmoto:
Chalk up another 2.5L SVT motor to the spun bearing club. i just tore apart the car I bought and it's got a nice spun rod bearing, Fugger is toast and the crank too...I think
Go through it and look for sand!
That I will and No I won't be building a 3L. I'm looking into a 2.5L bottome end non svt to build with the svt heads for someone who wants one of my cars. I will tear the rest of the lower end apart soon and investigate the block. It's too bad I couldn't get my hands on a crank and one rod
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Originally posted by Dragonfly:
Yes I am saying that.
Main reason im selling it Thursday.
Should have known when I saw the Troubleshooting forums lol
There comes a time when I need to grow up and stop dumping more money into a car that is known for breaking. Oh wait I could be like some people and sink thousands into a lemon and then brag about how awsome it is. Then cry in the Troubleshooting forum about how it breaks.
Dont get mad at the fact that I make better decisions.
Fine.
Then you will never know the joy of owning a true sportscar, either. You should avoid Porsches, BMW M3's, and anything Italian or otherwise sexier than a dishwasher.
This is a small problem for a very small number of people.
Function before fashion.
'96 Contour SE
"Toss the Contour into a corner, and it's as easy to catch as a softball thrown by a preschooler." -Edmunds, 1998
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I have allready owned a true sports car. And it is not the Tour. A true sports car you dont have to sink thousands in to mod it up.
M3 does not = true sports car.
my comment of "Oh wait I could be like some people and sink thousands into a lemon and then brag about how awsome it is. Then cry in the Troubleshooting forum about how it breaks. " applies to sinking thousands into a Lemon and still have a slow car that breaks all the time.
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i think hes refering to his moms honda accord. ha ha nice hi jack dragon please leave and shut up. as for the original topic. i will be disassembling my old svt shortblock i blew up last year. i will be looking for sand and such. so add me to the list that is interested in finding out what is causing these problems
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Well I pulled the crank and pistons/rods out. All the bearings mains.rods have metal/dirt inpregnated in them. And oh man does the oil straight outta the oil pump ever stink  If this motor would have ran much longer I think it would have eventually scattered bits The funny thing is the damn cylinder bores are spotless. I only saw a few scratches in them. And holy carbon on the pistons..yikes
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Originally posted by Thinkmoto:
1. All the bearings mains.rods have metal/dirt inpregnated in them.
2. And oh man does the oil straight outta the oil pump ever stink [sic] And holy carbon on the pistons..yikes
1. That's fairly normal if you ran the engine with a spun bearing. Where do you think all the material goes after it's shaved off.
2. That statement is making no sense at all! Carbon in the combustion chamber.  Who knew?
Perhaps you should have an educated mechanic look at the engine.
2000 SVT #674
13.47 @ 102 - All Motor!
It was not broke; Yet I fixed it anyway.
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Originally posted by Thinkmoto:
It's too bad I couldn't get my hands on a crank and one rod
If you *really* want a crank & rods, pm me. SVT~ 63kmi.
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Originally posted by DemonSVT:
Originally posted by Thinkmoto:
1. All the bearings mains.rods have metal/dirt inpregnated in them.
2. And oh man does the oil straight outta the oil pump ever stink [sic] And holy carbon on the pistons..yikes
1. That's fairly normal if you ran the engine with a spun bearing. Where do you think all the material goes after it's shaved off.
2. That statement is making no sense at all! Carbon in the combustion chamber. Who knew?
Perhaps you should have an educated mechanic look at the engine.
Demon don't even get me [censored] started
You have alot of nerve...I'm stating what I see OK?
This is the first Duratec I have stripped down with a spun bearing OK? yes I know the crap is going to circulate in the engine.
Tear down a hydraulic press sometime that has lost it's seals and tell me what you'll find in every valve,line,hose,and pump. I work on million dollar presses every day for a living that run tighter tolerances then these motors. And make parts that hold tighter tolerances yet!!! I'm talking to the tenth of one thousandth!!!So please don't knock me..you do NOT know me or my level of abilities.
And yes i know there will be carbon buildup, but not to the extent it's flaking off in huge chunks. is it wrong to state observations and the facts as they present themselves to me????
I simply was answering the questions of those who wanted to know what I saw and could see. I thought I saw eye to eye with you, but obviously you feel you are high and mighty above everyone else. I know when sarcasm needs to stop and be put on hold and this is one of those moments.
You [censored] asked for what I saw and what rod bearing spun so I told you. i then stated what else I saw and you return the favor with attacking me?!?!?!?!?!WTF is your problem man?? Seriously do you have a personality disorder..that you have to attack everyones intellect???
And yes that is a big [censored] you Demon!
please continue to attack me..see what I care the locals know me and respect me. You'll never understand
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keyboard engineers know it all thinkmoto didnt you know that? dont let it get to you really terry has to correct demon all the time.
Oo (xxx)oO
o xxxxxxxx o
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Originally posted by Dragonfly:
Yes I am saying that.
Main reason im selling it Thursday.
Should have known when I saw the Troubleshooting forums lol
There comes a time when I need to grow up and stop dumping more money into a car that is known for breaking. Oh wait I could be like some people and sink thousands into a lemon and then brag about how awsome it is. Then cry in the Troubleshooting forum about how it breaks.
Dont get mad at the fact that I make better decisions.
And what are you going to buy instead? Stop trying to act smarter than everyone on these boards.
As for the rest of the thread....I leave for 2 weeks and look what I miss. I'm caught up and waiting for more! 
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Originally posted by RogerB:
Originally posted by Dragonfly:
Yes I am saying that.
Main reason im selling it Thursday.
Should have known when I saw the Troubleshooting forums lol
There comes a time when I need to grow up and stop dumping more money into a car that is known for breaking. Oh wait I could be like some people and sink thousands into a lemon and then brag about how awsome it is. Then cry in the Troubleshooting forum about how it breaks.
Dont get mad at the fact that I make better decisions.
Fine.
Then you will never know the joy of owning a true sportscar, either. You should avoid Porsches, BMW M3's, and anything Italian or otherwise sexier than a dishwasher.
This is a small problem for a very small number of people.
Then I have very bad luck. Both of my 2.5s have died of bearing problems.
The Spickle
New Car: Infra Red '04 FSVT
Former Car: Black '98 CSVT, #3137/6535 "The Unluckiest car.. ever"
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Originally posted by MapOfTaziFoSho:
Stop trying to act smarter than everyone on these boards.
lol
Its no act
j/k your right did not mean to sound like a jerk. Was not my intention sorry.
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Originally posted by Dragonfly:
Originally posted by MapOfTaziFoSho:
Stop trying to act smarter than everyone on these boards.
lol
Its no act
j/k your right did not mean to sound like a jerk. Was not my intention sorry.
OOOO! Is that how it's gonna be?! 
Honda's break too! 
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Originally posted by MapOfTaziFoSho:
Honda's break too!
My girlfriend has spent almost as much on her accord as I've spent on my piece of.. I mean.. my contour.
The Spickle
New Car: Infra Red '04 FSVT
Former Car: Black '98 CSVT, #3137/6535 "The Unluckiest car.. ever"
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Originally posted by mikey boy:
keyboard engineers know it all thinkmoto didnt you know that? dont let it get to you really terry has to correct demon all the time.
Since when...
...and define all the time.
I haven't talked to him but 2 times in about 2 years and it went 1 for 1 on those two times. (with me believing his information on this one but it's still just his well informed hearsay until it's proven)
Also I still say this is a big blow up over a small percentage of possible engines that might possibly have a possible chance to possibly fail.
Like Tom said earlier. People see a few things and fly off with a worst case scenario and that's what caused every bad thing that ever happened to any car the had a Duratec engine touch it.
What about all Terry's baseless statement's about the strength of the MTX-75 (while break for certain past 200lb/ft), the OEM rods (shatter like Champaign glasses at 250HP), the DMD (it was made for crank whip), et cetera that have long been proven wrong?
Shall I continue or is that enough to state that everyone is not infallible...
We took them at face value based on his experience and reputation and what happened...
It's not gospel folks! Stop treating it like it is and you may learn something.
2000 SVT #674
13.47 @ 102 - All Motor!
It was not broke; Yet I fixed it anyway.
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time will tell man, this time you are going to learn something. <----quote me. the thing is that terry will tell you that he was wrong and that he doesnt have all the answers. someone with his experience and knowlege doesnt have to waste his time with us but he does because he has a love and passion for what he does. i respect that. he isnt out to prove to everyone that he knows it all. if you ask him a question he will give you an educated answer without making you feel like an [censored]. thinkmoto posted info that he found that might help us so lets jot it down and move on.
Oo (xxx)oO
o xxxxxxxx o
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Originally posted by Silverbullet98:
Does Anyone Have any pics of the bearings that have failed...if so lets take look at these and compare the differences...
You want pics - I give you pics
Spun 4 of 6
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Come on Mike, you know that being wrong is a hard pill for anyone to swallow. Terry, myself, Demon; we have all been wrong at times. It takes a secure, bigger man to come on and admit we are wrong.
However, when you factor in the internet and all the screaming wannabe's who follow after people can't stand it when their 'expert' is wrong and then dump them....you can understand why it is sometimes easier to say nothing at all then come out in print and admit you are wrong. Besides, if your're wrong once then people find it easier for you to be wrong again. I find that it builds character. You obviously know that Terry has been wrong in the past and you still respect him, so do I. That is proof that it is ok to be wrong.
So why am I saying this? I think its a fu|<|<ing waste of time to argue about the who's been right and wrong stuff, or to stick up for people who are smart enough and experienced enough to defend themselves.
IF you are worried about the sand issue then get a low mileage used motor with a return guarantee if there is low-end damage. Then you can't be wrong because any manufacturing defect is pretty much going to have happened already with regard to casting sands. Hell the low mileage used motor has the advantage of being tested, already broke in if you retain the rings and is so much cheaper than a new one.
Also, this sand in the motor is probably a very recent phenomenon and doesn't explain all the original spun bearing problems. In my mind they are not related and you guys should apply a little logic before yelling fire in the theater or people like dragonfly will start to think that the duratec is a bad motor and then that would reflect bad on all of Ford, Mazda, and Jaguar to say the least....and we know how our superior Japanese and European brethren make such better cars than we do.....yeah.
warmonger
Former owner of '99 CSVT - Silver #222/2760
356/334 wHP/TQ at 10psi on pump gas!
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STOP PICKING ON DEMON. HE'S ONE OF MY HEROES.
The Spickle
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Originally posted by SpliceVW:
Originally posted by MapOfTaziFoSho:
Honda's break too!
My girlfriend has spent almost as much on her accord as I've spent on my piece of.. I mean.. my contour.
w3rd. My buddy has a '99 Accord with 93K on it. currently in the shop spending thousands of $$$$ getting the enigne replaced. It broke a piston ring a burnt out a couple valves. And this is a guy who never exceeds 1/4 throttle. Go figure.
Of course my CSVT has never missed a beat ...
BTW - Dragonfly and you other whiners ... read my sig and take it to heart. No one wants to hear the pissing and moaning.
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I have never been wrong. You could all learn a lesson from me. 
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...no, but your parents were. Originally posted by Dragonfly:
I have never been wrong.
You could all learn a lesson from me.
Ryan
Trollin!
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Hard-core CEG'er
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Originally posted by Dragonfly:
I have never been wrong.
You could all learn a lesson from me.
I like akrumps sig and I pray you are joking D.fly
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 409
CEG\'er
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CEG\'er
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I am always joking, just the way I am. If I get serious I would try to reply with a reasonable statement and make a fool out of myself by not spelling everything correct. So I resort to a childish comment.
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Joined: Dec 2001
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Hard-core CEG\'er
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Hard-core CEG\'er
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Originally posted by RTStabler51:
...no, but your parents were.
Originally posted by Dragonfly:
I have never been wrong.
You could all learn a lesson from me.
rofl
best post in this whole thread.
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 1,145
Hard-core CEG\'er
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Hard-core CEG\'er
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i got some bearings from my old honda motor that i saved, i'll get pictures of them as soon as i can, you will see what dirt in the oil can do on one of them and what lack of oil will do on the rest, its pretty bad, oh yeah and if no one wants to see them tell me so i dont go take a bunch of pics for nothing
98.5 Black SE ATX
S&B filter, SVT MAF, optimized SVT TB, mesh grille, removed orange reflectors, painted rear reflector, gutted pre-cats, optimized SVT LIM, 19lb injectors, resonator removed
cant afford an svt but lookin for 1 in nc
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Joined: May 2000
Posts: 21,197
I have no life
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OP
I have no life
Joined: May 2000
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Keep the Honda pics to yourself since this has nothing to do with a Honda.
-'96 SE MTX 3L
-'98 SVT 1,173 of 6,535
-'05 Mazda 6s, loaded, g/f's ride
-Need a 96-00 manual on CD? PM or email me
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Hard-core CEG\'er
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Hard-core CEG\'er
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but it will show what happens to the bearings
98.5 Black SE ATX
S&B filter, SVT MAF, optimized SVT TB, mesh grille, removed orange reflectors, painted rear reflector, gutted pre-cats, optimized SVT LIM, 19lb injectors, resonator removed
cant afford an svt but lookin for 1 in nc
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 409
CEG\'er
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CEG\'er
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Originally posted by todras:
Keep the Honda pics to yourself since this has nothing to do with a Honda.
Typical comment from Todrass
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Joined: May 2000
Posts: 21,197
I have no life
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OP
I have no life
Joined: May 2000
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Originally posted by Dragonfly:
Typical comment from Todrass
And tell me why I shouldn't make that comment Luigi?
-'96 SE MTX 3L
-'98 SVT 1,173 of 6,535
-'05 Mazda 6s, loaded, g/f's ride
-Need a 96-00 manual on CD? PM or email me
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Hard-core CEG\'er
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it is his post after all
98.5 Black SE ATX
S&B filter, SVT MAF, optimized SVT TB, mesh grille, removed orange reflectors, painted rear reflector, gutted pre-cats, optimized SVT LIM, 19lb injectors, resonator removed
cant afford an svt but lookin for 1 in nc
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 409
CEG\'er
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CEG\'er
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Never said he should not make the comment, just typical is all. Almost to the point of prediction lol.
Atleast I won 10 bucks off it.
TY Todras ------ Wes get that money ready im on my way over.
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Joined: May 2000
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I have no life
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OP
I have no life
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Explain to me why someone should post about something Honda related? He said to let him know so I did. If I didn't someone else would. Keep the peanut gallery comments to yourself and refrain from posting in a topic you have no useful information to give.
-'96 SE MTX 3L
-'98 SVT 1,173 of 6,535
-'05 Mazda 6s, loaded, g/f's ride
-Need a 96-00 manual on CD? PM or email me
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 409
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CEG\'er
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Ill repeat myself, I never said he should or should'nt so go 
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Hard-core CEG\'er
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Originally posted by todras:
Explain to me why someone should post about something Honda related? He said to let him know so I did. If I didn't someone else would. Keep the peanut gallery comments to yourself and refrain from posting in a topic you have no useful information to give.
me not post or him??
98.5 Black SE ATX
S&B filter, SVT MAF, optimized SVT TB, mesh grille, removed orange reflectors, painted rear reflector, gutted pre-cats, optimized SVT LIM, 19lb injectors, resonator removed
cant afford an svt but lookin for 1 in nc
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Joined: May 2000
Posts: 1,359
Webmaster
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Webmaster
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 1,359 |
Keep it on-topic folks, this thread was interesting.
-Lance
Lance Kinley
CEG Webmaster
95 SE, "Cassandra"
10 years!
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Hard-core CEG\'er
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Hard-core CEG\'er
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Originally posted by Thinkmoto:
One more reason for me to save my money and leave my 2.5 in my car.
Agreed.
Imo I couldn't possibly do it right even if I had the knowledge to swap them (I'd rather have some years under my belt before swapping my own engine, and props to the guys who've done just that. I'm not running anyone over about 3L's )
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Joined: Sep 2002
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Hard-core CEG'er
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I am keeping my 2.5. I have helped do 3L's before. And I will do mine when/if the time comes. It's a matter of necessity for most.
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CEG\'er
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Originally posted by Lance Kinley:
Keep it on-topic folks, this thread was interesting.
-Lance
What were the oil change intervals of the 3L failure's ?
Could Zircon or this magic sand mixed 4k+ Mobil 1 be one cause ?
...lets keep it going 
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Posts: 702
Veteran CEG\'er
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Veteran CEG\'er
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Posts: 702 |
I Still Havent Torn The Old 2.5 Block Apart To Inspect The damage...But I Will Take Pics Of The Crank/Rod Bearings and see if they add to any of the theories posted here. Im Still Not Even Sure What The Cause Of My Motor Failure Was...All I Know Was That I Executed the blatantly ignorant task of shifting from fifth to third at high RPMs and then there was a loud ticking noise i believed to be a broken valvespring...timing was pulled way out and upon inspection there were no damaged springs/lifters or breaks in the camlobes...
CSVT E0 3L
14.5 @ 94mph, Stock Intake, Stock Exhaust minus Resonator, CEL, And Broken Pass. Side CV...Untuned.
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You know I was thinking that since these engines come out of automatics the Rev range has probably been pretty low until they got bolted upto a manual with someone who wants all the power the engine can deliver. The bores wear unevenly for this and it might be causing a real strain on everything. This usaully becomes a problem with just the top lan ring. If you never take the engine over 5k or so for 70000 miles the piston only goes up the bore so far and wears a path for the piston to follow. Then you slap it in a manual car and run it to 7000 and suddenly the piston goes quickly from this wide piston bore to the stock size because of rod stretch. It can cause real havoc on alot of things. Not to mention high rpm Decel can really kill rods. Always clutch out if your comming down from 7K to get the engine away from beeing loaded in that rev range.
Ex-cat cams dealer. Today we do motor mounts.. Tommorow. Intake manifolds
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Joined: Nov 2000
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Hard-core CEG'er
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Hard-core CEG'er
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Originally posted by Travis:
You know I was thinking that since these engines come out of automatics the Rev range has probably been pretty low until they got bolted upto a manual with someone who wants all the power the engine can deliver. The bores wear unevenly for this and it might be causing a real strain on everything. This usaully becomes a problem with just the top lan ring. If you never take the engine over 5k or so for 70000 miles the piston only goes up the bore so far and wears a path for the piston to follow. Then you slap it in a manual car and run it to 7000 and suddenly the piston goes quickly from this wide piston bore to the stock size because of rod stretch. It can cause real havoc on alot of things. Not to mention high rpm Decel can really kill rods. Always clutch out if your comming down from 7K to get the engine away from beeing loaded in that rev range.
OK, you've got to be kidding me! The rod stretch from another "theoretical" 1500rpm, thaT YOU ARE SUGGESTING would be in the fuggin' microns.
It's not like these engine are made for John Deere!
2000 SVT Turbo 295hp/269ftlb@12psi
#1 for Bendix Brakes Kits!
Knuckles rebuilt w/new bearings $55
AUSSIE ENDLINKS $70
Gutted pre-cats $80/set
A lack of planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on mine!
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Joined: May 2000
Posts: 21,197
I have no life
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OP
I have no life
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Did you expect something else from Travis? 
-'96 SE MTX 3L
-'98 SVT 1,173 of 6,535
-'05 Mazda 6s, loaded, g/f's ride
-Need a 96-00 manual on CD? PM or email me
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 134
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CEG\'er
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Posts: 134 |
Well, I just last week broke my 3L duratec in my taurus, right after I had the engine somewere between 6-65000 RPM, it developed a ticking in the higher rpm ranges, Then trying to get back home it went really sour. now taken from my topic right under this one
Quote:
Alright I have managed to dameage either a rod or a lifter in my engine, we let it sit for 7 days before we got to look at it agian, and now it is covered with calcium deposits. All over the engine. Usually this signals that my water mixed with the oil, we cheacked the oil and it is fine... We can't figure out what caused this. Any ideas?
Sounds like I might have run into the same problem as you guys, in regaurds to the spun rod or lifters. I will look for sand and what not when I tear it down.
Last edited by DeltarMN; 11/02/04 12:38 AM.
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Originally posted by DeltarMN:
I had the engine somewere between 6-65000 RPM,
Well $hit, theres your problem right there! Redline is about 7000, you were about 58,000rpm over redline!
"Moore has also accused the American people of being the stupidest, most naive people on the face of the Earth. And after last weekend, he's got the box office numbers to prove it!"
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Doh! I ment 6-6500rpms....
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Hard-core CEG\'er
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Hard-core CEG\'er
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Originally posted by Travis:
If you never take the engine over 5k or so for 70000 miles the piston only goes up the bore so far and wears a path for the piston to follow. Then you slap it in a manual car and run it to 7000 and suddenly the piston goes quickly from this wide piston bore to the stock size because of rod stretch.
You actually think the piston dosent go up the bore all the way at lower RPM.
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