|
|
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 9,602
Hard-core CEG'er
|
Hard-core CEG'er
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 9,602 |
I was just reminded of something via a PM question about it.
I ran across it when building my 3L but didn't think about it until I was asked.
The instructions on the Ford manuals, when pertaining to the 3L, do not have the extra 90 degree rotation for the rod bolts listed.
That is crucial for retaining torque of the "stretch" bolts!
That could possibly be another reason for the failures???
All 2.5L instructions show the correct procedure and you should follow the 2.5L instructions anyway but if you were just looking at the 3L instructions thinking "the bottom end or whole engine is a 3L" then I could easily see making this mistake.
3L instructions read...
Install the connecting rod caps and bolts.
~ Tighten the bolts in two stages.
~ Stage 1: Tighten to 23 Nm (17 lb-ft).
~ Stage 2: Tighten to 43 Nm (32 lb-ft).
That's it!
2.5L instructions read...
CAUTION:
When assembling the connecting rods and connecting rod caps, it is imperative that bearing slots and tangs be located on the same side of the connecting rods.
CAUTION:
Connecting rod bolts are tighten to yield and must not be reused.
Position the connecting rod cap on the appropriate connecting rod and alternately tighten the bolts in three stages as indicated.
~ Stage 1: 23 Nm
~ Stage 2: 43 Nm
~ Stage 3: 90 degrees
The rod bolts & connecting rods are the same parts for both engines.
This information should probably be in a sticky about a 3L engine rebuild so folks don't use the 3L instructions.
2000 SVT #674
13.47 @ 102 - All Motor!
It was not broke; Yet I fixed it anyway.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 127
CEG\'er
|
|
CEG\'er
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 127 |
atfer reading that thread on FCO i am like WTF. I dont mean any disrespect but Terry seems to know whats going on with this but just keeps saying "its a hit or miss" "its nothing mechanical"
Its creepy! I understand its a serious issue but WTF. Hopefully someone will let the cat out of the bag. For sanity sake.
Cougar V6 MTX: GMK Carbon Fiber Cold Air Intake : SVT UIM : SVT LIM : SVT TB : MSDS Headers & Ypipe : TruBendz 2.5" Borla Single Exhaust : Soild Front Motor Mount : & more
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 9,602
Hard-core CEG'er
|
|
Hard-core CEG'er
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 9,602 |
Originally posted by GrandMasterKhan:
I dont mean any disrespect but Terry seems to know whats going on with this but just keeps saying "its a hit or miss" "its nothing mechanical"
You have to take everything from Terry with a grain of salt though.
I do agree he is chalked full of very good technical knowledge and experience. Don't get me wrong!
However try explaining how it can be "hit or miss" 
I can understand a bad batch on a small production run of a certain piece, but hit or miss meaning a specific random occuring problem through quality control covering countless separate production runs going over a decade.
2000 SVT #674
13.47 @ 102 - All Motor!
It was not broke; Yet I fixed it anyway.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 1,859
Hard-core CEG\'er
|
|
Hard-core CEG\'er
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 1,859 |
Like stated before he may have learned something from a friend inside, that if leaked out would get an employee or three in trouble. But saying hit or miss is frustrating.
'99 Silver svt
For sale
19" Axis Neo wheels
3.0 parts, pre-98 trunk,
Check classifieds
bp.powell@comcast.net
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 3,887
Hard-core CEG'er
|
|
Hard-core CEG'er
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 3,887 |
Originally posted by DemonSVT:
Originally posted by GrandMasterKhan:
I dont mean any disrespect but Terry seems to know whats going on with this but just keeps saying "its a hit or miss" "its nothing mechanical"
You have to take everything from Terry with a grain of salt though.
I do agree he is chalked full of very good technical knowledge and experience. Don't get me wrong!
However try explaining how it can be "hit or miss"
I can understand a bad batch on a small production run of a certain piece, but hit or miss meaning a specific random occuring problem through quality control covering countless separate production runs going over a decade.
Exactly....
06 GMC Sierra 2500HD Dmax/ally
06 Pontiac G6 GT
05 CRF250R
FOR SALE 06 KX65 with riding gear $2700 obo
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 375
CEG\'er
|
|
CEG\'er
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 375 |
Originally posted by DemonSVT:
Originally posted by GrandMasterKhan:
I dont mean any disrespect but Terry seems to know whats going on with this but just keeps saying "its a hit or miss" "its nothing mechanical"
You have to take everything from Terry with a grain of salt though.
I do agree he is chalked full of very good technical knowledge and experience. Don't get me wrong!
However try explaining how it can be "hit or miss"
I can understand a bad batch on a small production run of a certain piece, but hit or miss meaning a specific random occuring problem through quality control covering countless separate production runs going over a decade.
ya know... if I had a shop specializing in duratech/cd27 platform cars, I'd think that this could be a very good marketing ploy.
I personally don't believe Terry is holding some 'golden nugget' of inside info. More likely, just feeding fire to the flames by infering so.
And lets face it, as far as the mechanic is concerned, the less educated the customer the better, right?
It's just a way to scare more ppl into beinging their projects to him... marketing ppl.... plain n simple.
-j.
96 LX 3.0L MTX - Black/Tan
K&N; 12lb F/W & uprated clutch
2.5" Pipe; SVT bits; Mystery Mod; Pull-tie Mod;
UN-tuned Mod; 3rd Gear Synro-Crunch Mod
280K on the Shell, and 40ish on the Motor... 1/4 mile??
Yeah, it's a fun daily driver...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 1,475
Hard-core CEG\'er
|
|
Hard-core CEG\'er
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 1,475 |
Terry's post this morning states that it is a "production issue" that Ford hasn't established a "start date" on, so an unknown number of engines are at risk. It creeps me out because I was thinking the same thing last night after I recalled something I had discussed with another friend who does engineering for a Ford supplier: Quote:
Will says: Posted on May 24, 2004 11:58 AM GMT
The Ford Five Hundred is a total piece of garbage. Trust me I'm very familiar with the engineering and the people behind it. Total Junk. Electrical = nightmare, and according to -------, Engine = Nightmare. Don't call it an up and coming car, it's not. Ford has repeatedly designed themselves into imposible situations and you can't convice them otherwise.
Five Hundred/FreeStlye = BAD
Austin says: Posted on May 24, 2004 3:25 PM GMT
Now why would the engine in the 500 be so bad? I thought it used the 3.0 Duratec engine. Same one in other Ford/Mazda/Jag cars.
Will says: Posted on May 24, 2004 4:01 PM GMT
Being manf in Cleveland engine Plant #1, new plant. He said they are doing stuff at the plant that goes contrary to existing design specs. Basically the plant, not engineering, is deciding how the engine should be built. So the final product, while being built to existing specs will be different. He seemed quite upset about it when I talked to him about it last.
I'll see if I can find out any details about these manufacturing changes. If there is any appropriate information to be shared I'll let you guys know.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 2,454
Learned patience the hard way
|
|
Learned patience the hard way
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 2,454 |
Originally posted by touredon:
Originally posted by DemonSVT:
Originally posted by GrandMasterKhan:
I dont mean any disrespect but Terry seems to know whats going on with this but just keeps saying "its a hit or miss" "its nothing mechanical"
You have to take everything from Terry with a grain of salt though.
I do agree he is chalked full of very good technical knowledge and experience. Don't get me wrong!
However try explaining how it can be "hit or miss"
I can understand a bad batch on a small production run of a certain piece, but hit or miss meaning a specific random occuring problem through quality control covering countless separate production runs going over a decade.
ya know... if I had a shop specializing in duratech/cd27 platform cars, I'd think that this could be a very good marketing ploy.
I personally don't believe Terry is holding some 'golden nugget' of inside info. More likely, just feeding fire to the flames by infering so.
And lets face it, as far as the mechanic is concerned, the less educated the customer the better, right?
It's just a way to scare more ppl into beinging their projects to him... marketing ppl.... plain n simple.
-j.
I disagree. While Terry is in the business of working on these cars semi-exclusively, it's not in his own best interest to not let the cat out of the bag unless it's to protect priviledged relationships. While many people like to think Terry is out there to take advantage of every single situation that comes by, I just don't think that's the case. He may be a bit rough around the edges and not have the polish of a used car salesman, but he's not out there trying to sell people on things that they don't need and he's not going to purposely have you waste an engine in hopes he gets the job of repairing it. By all accounts I'm aware of he has plenty of business as it is and as a one man shop, if you're in that situation you have to henpick what you work on so you don't want a ton of work coming all at once.
Heck I build and sell 3L engines for people, but if I had information that was helpful to those building their own as far as not blowing them up, I'd be sharing it. I gain nothing from not sharing it as those people are all ready building their engines.
Rick
Owner of 00 #1611 Silver (Totalled) 98.5 T-Red SVT #6180
Buckshot77@msn.com
Misc 3L parts for sale
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 9,602
Hard-core CEG'er
|
|
Hard-core CEG'er
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 9,602 |
The Cleveland plant #1 did not reopen and start building Duratecs until the end of 2003 to early 2004. (Engines for the 05 model year!)
So how does that effect any of the engines in question???
Seriously now folks!!!
2000 SVT #674
13.47 @ 102 - All Motor!
It was not broke; Yet I fixed it anyway.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 7,117
Hard-core CEG'er
|
|
Hard-core CEG'er
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 7,117 |
Excellent info Demon! This should be added to the 3L info thread.
Must be that jumbly-wumbly thing happening again.
|
|
|
|
|
