|
|
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,262
Zippy Zetec on his last legs.
|
Zippy Zetec on his last legs.
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,262 |
Originally posted by CRZYDRVR:
Originally posted by Kremithefrog:
My dad is a diesel truck mechanic and basically is the head mechanic where he works. He has spent a lot of money on tools, but by that I mean thousands, maybe $3k, $4k at most, not 10s of thousands. He has bought used tool boxs to save lots of money but of course only buys new tools. He has enough tools (save for air compressors, computers, lifts,etc.) to do basically anything to a diesel truck, and most passenger vehicles as well. I'm sure he has some specialized tools but ONLY if they are needed and no other tool can be substituted. And somehow he manages to do the job right because he doesn't want trucks coming back in to the shop.
3k is absolutely nothing. I could [did] spend over 1k just to work on a few FWD wheel bearings/hubs, and that includes no hand tools...spent over that much [1k] for just one 3/4 drive *airgun*...$850.00 on a battery tester...$400.00 for a short tracer...$200.00 for a few sockets...just some basic stuff. But I don't work on that many diesel trucks...just work on Acuras - Volvos, and pretty much everything in between, bumper-to-bumper, like most modern shops.
No offense MeanGreen, but the amount of money spent on tools means nothing to me. Its how you are able to fix whatever you are working on that matters. My Dad was also the head diesel mechanic before he retired. He has tools I never even knew existed. Estimated value is well over 20K mostly since he has been doing it for over 35 years, but a lot of his tools are MADE.
If he couldnt afford or find that tool he needed, or he was only going to use it 2 times a year, he made his own, usually for a single job, since he also designed and built one-off hydraulic systems for dump trucks, trash trucks, etc. He is also a damn fine welder and built packer bodies and all the related hydraulic and electrical systems FROM SCRATCH. He has tools that are as old as I am and are still in excellent condition. But he never paid $200 for sockets. he also taught me how to trace shorts without a $400 tracer  He also built and tuned gas and diesel engines using only his ear, to make sure it was right, and was swapping V8s into mini trucks and retrofitting fuel injection onto carbed engines before it was "cool". He didnt need fancy computers or expensive tools. And all his experience and knowledge is being handed down to me, a little at a time. Wanna talk about experience? I got all I need just a few steps away.
Need a set of master keys for a Peterbilt or Kenworth?? I got em. Need special tools for any domestic gas engine up to about 1990, including Flatheads? I got em too. Because all of his tools were given to me when he retired. You didnt see me bragging about it when I got all these seriously cool tools. I had to build another shed just to hold all of it
I respect the fact that you are well equiped for your job, but throwing around $$ figures is kind of sad. I have learned that even of you dont have a special tool to get the job done, its no problem. Either make your own or make do with what you have. I also understand that you have a lot of experience, but so does Kremit and others on here, and if I can save a few bucks and still do the job right following what they say, guess what, I just saved a few bucks
OTOH, you want to buy whatever special tool is needed for a certain job, and I can respect that, more power to you. But dont talk about having so many expensive tools, cause I can hang with that, and probably show you stuff you never knew existed.
My Dad (and probably Kremits too, probably about the same age) come from the old-school way of thinking. If you dont have the tool, you still gotta fix the problem. No need to go out and spend $$ if you dont have to.
Can we all just get along now?
well said, my dad is right there with yours CRZYDRVR.
Regards, Cole.
Relegating to troll status sometime this week.
New Whip: 1990 Lexus ES250.
Old Hotness: 1995 GL MTX Zetec *IN TRIAGE*
"I had a little friend once, but it dont move no more...  "
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 21,653
I have no life
|
|
I have no life
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 21,653 |
Originally posted by MeanGreen2:
Quote:
I think it anybody could work on a car. I think even someone like my mom, who acts like she could never work on a car, actually could, if she wanted to. That's why I wanna design cars, not just work on them, hopefully (and I'm sure it will be) it'll be more of a challenge.
Could she do a timing chain and a water pump on a quad engine, or figure out and repair a reoccuring no-start problem on a BMW, replace a heater core on a F-body, while the customer waits because they're already late for an appointment? She's up to the challenge, expert?
Dream on.
Not overnight of course. You didn't crawl outta your momma's womb able to do it either. I said if she wanted to she could. Meaning she could do the same thing as you, read a book/look at a dvd/cd and figure it out. If it was worth it to her, and if she wouldn't mind getting dirty, then yeah, I'd imagine she'd be up to the challenge.
I won't even reply to your other replies, because you just try to change the subject and not even comprehend what I say or make a very good response.
98.5 SVT
91 Escort GT (almost sold)
96 ATX Zetec (i brake to watch you swerve)
FS: SVT rear sway bar
WTB: Very cheap beater
CEG Dragon Run - October 13-15
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 21,653
I have no life
|
|
I have no life
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 21,653 |
Originally posted by MeanGreen2:
Quote:
Didn't say that, I said I'd rather help someone do it themselves, rather than tell them the "by the book" way which they can easily find themselves (either in a book or on dvd/cd).
You'd have them cut corners, instead of doing it right while they had it apart?
No, I'd have them do it right, but without buying tools they don't absolutely need, or have them do anything they don't have to do.
Quote:
That would be a know-nothing attitude. But I've talked to mechanics that act like they are the ONLY person to ever work on a car and that the owner doesn't know anything about automobiles. You definitely seem to be one of those.
You think your backyard graduation can keep up with my experience, expert?
As far as the any job I've done so far on the zetec, yes.
Quote:
Keyword number 2 and 3: another state
1st Keyword: Dealer...so if his source for the one part is the dealer, why would you have him find another source for the tensioner spring and bolt that they already have, right there?
Put the keywords together, DEALER from ANOTHER STATE. Same source buddy.
Quote:
Hmm, I work on my car out of necessity, and I give advice based on my experience and what obviously works. Even if you don't like it, other people appreciate it, and you can shove your head into your thousand dollar dvd to figure stuff out if you don't like how me and others on here do it ourselves.
You can keep your files and cardboard, and you can just imagine what you would do with a professional shop that is packed full with real nice equipment and boxes that are stuffed with every tool you'd ever need...while trying to tell me that doing it right, following procedure, is somehow the wrong way to do it.
I'm not saying it's wrong to use the "correct tools" and the "correct" procedure, but no need to do all that if you don't have the "correct" tools already and if you want to save time. There are some cases where you can save money and/or time by substituting tools, changing procedure,etc. that will still result in a perfect job. Like I said, ask countless zetec owners on here (the ones that don't have flapping timing belts, the ones that do have flapping belts have either never changed their timing belt or have gone to so called "professionals" or in a few cases, just don't know what they were doing and screwed their stuff up).
98.5 SVT
91 Escort GT (almost sold)
96 ATX Zetec (i brake to watch you swerve)
FS: SVT rear sway bar
WTB: Very cheap beater
CEG Dragon Run - October 13-15
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 21,653
I have no life
|
|
I have no life
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 21,653 |
Originally posted by CRZYDRVR:
My Dad (and probably Kremits too, probably about the same age) come from the old-school way of thinking. If you dont have the tool, you still gotta fix the problem. No need to go out and spend $$ if you dont have to.
Can we all just get along now?
Yeah, definitely same kinda dads.
I'm all for getting along. I think meangreen is real worked up about this and thinks I'm really worked up about it too. I'm not though, I just like to discuss/argue stuff.
Meangreen, it's OK to not know everything and to be wrong sometimes. Every one is wrong every know and then. It's also OK to do things differently in different situations. Not everybody does everything the same way. Everybody can't do everything the same way. It must be nice to be able to afford thousands of dollars of tools, and to throw away aftermarket exhausts,etc. but most of us can't do that,,, so we make do with what works. And when I say make do with what works, we do it because it WORKS. And if it works, even if it's not by the book, then it's OK by us.
98.5 SVT
91 Escort GT (almost sold)
96 ATX Zetec (i brake to watch you swerve)
FS: SVT rear sway bar
WTB: Very cheap beater
CEG Dragon Run - October 13-15
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 8,301
Addicted CEG\'er
|
|
Addicted CEG\'er
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 8,301 |
Originally posted by Kremithefrog:
I just like to discuss/argue stuff.
So do I, and thats cool. After our little turbo vs supercharger debate months back, I would'nt have guessed 
Last edited by CRZYDRVR; 07/12/04 03:20 AM.
-Ken V.
1998.5 SE Praire Tan Zetec ATX
psycho_bass@hotmail.com
Roush springs Roush rear sway bar BAT struts 17" Millie Miglia HT3 and a ton of subtle asthetic mods
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 21,653
I have no life
|
|
I have no life
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 21,653 |
Originally posted by CRZYDRVR:
Originally posted by Kremithefrog:
I just like to discuss/argue stuff.
So do I, and thats cool. After our little turbo vs supercharger debate months back, I would'nt have guessed
Yeah you're right, turbos smell better.   
98.5 SVT
91 Escort GT (almost sold)
96 ATX Zetec (i brake to watch you swerve)
FS: SVT rear sway bar
WTB: Very cheap beater
CEG Dragon Run - October 13-15
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 682
Veteran CEG\'er
|
|
Veteran CEG\'er
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 682 |
Originally posted by MeanGreen2:
Wrong. I can probably repeat what I did before...order it online and get it in 2 days...or at worst, order it off of one of the weekly tool men, and have it in the next week, not a month.
Guess the Ford dealerships don't know to order it online.
Originally posted by MeanGreen2:
The tool IS for timing belt changes. I don't know what you're going on about. Are we even talking about the same thing?
Pretty hard to tell, with you in the conversation. I'm trying to be as clear as possible about the distinction of exactly which jobs are being talked about for each point, and you keep coming back with confusion.
Originally posted by MeanGreen2:
Are you talking about the tool [flat bar] that locks the cams? Fool, that alignment tool [flat bar] is an absolute must in order to set the cams in the "Valve Overlap" position...the settings have to be accurate.
Who said it was okay? You? The same person that said cardboard would work as an alignment tool. 
If it's an "absolute must", then how come Kremit and I both got our engines to run perfectly without needing it? Coincidence? Luck? Did we leave saucers of milk out for the engine fairies?
That's why I say cardboard, or nothing at all, is okay -- because when my friend and I went to the trouble of fabricating and using the precision alignment tool, all we accomplished with it was to show that the alignment was perfectly good already, just as it had been before the engine was taken apart. Because we kept the existing sprocket alignment on the camshafts. (And this wasn't just a belt change, this was a total teardown of the engine.)
Originally posted by MeanGreen2:
Originally posted by MeanGreen2:
The three tools are required because on the zetec you sometimes have to readjust the cams...
Originally posted by Paul Kienitz:
Yes, you do, but not as a normal part of a timing belt change! When you do need to, then the alignment tool is required.
What are you going on about? The alignment tool will always be needed. What's wrong? You're unable to even use the proper terms for the tools?
I'm being as precise as I can. Camshaft alignment tool = flat plate of precision thickness. Cam sprocket tool = long arm with two pegs a few inches apart (another thing I have a homemade version of). Crank positioning tool = the pin thing. All three are needed if you adjust the timing of the camshaft sprockets on the camshafts. None of the three are needed (though some are helpful) if you are only adjusting the timing of the belt teeth on the sprockets. The former is a fine adjustment, the latter is a coarse adjustment. That is why the first requires precise measurements and the second requires only rough ones. I don't know how I can be any more precise and careful in spelling out the distinctions I'm making.
As far as I can tell at this point, you are not arguing with any one specific point I'm making, but just making a vague general denial in which I can't even tell which specific point you're trying to attack. I'm left wondering if you're the one who is confused between the two separate jobs being discussed and maybe not using the terminology clearly.
Originally posted by MeanGreen2:
I think that someone said that the peg is only needed when the cams need to be moved...so...why...the belt is meant to work as the cam holding tool, instead of an actual tool, allowing the crank to stay locked while the belt gets destroyed?
"Belt as a cam holding tool??" Now you're just throwing out general confusion. Your idea of what you think I'm saying is practically the opposite of what I said, which was just that the sprocket holding tool is another item that is needed for sprocket timing adjustment but not for a timing belt change. No, the belt is not used as a cam holding tool. There is no need for a tool because you don't need to do any cam holding. Just stick them right side up and slap the belt on, then verify that the crank and the cams are facing the correct direction at the same time, within an error of 4.5 degrees, which is pretty hard to miss.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 21,653
I have no life
|
|
I have no life
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 21,653 |
People like Paul are why we can manage to do our own timing belt changes while not being "professionals". Paul delivers correct, helpful, and precise information. While the "professional" just says what the book says and argues endlessly.
98.5 SVT
91 Escort GT (almost sold)
96 ATX Zetec (i brake to watch you swerve)
FS: SVT rear sway bar
WTB: Very cheap beater
CEG Dragon Run - October 13-15
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 340
CEG\'er
|
|
CEG\'er
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 340 |
Originally posted by CRZYDRVR:
Originally posted by Kremithefrog:
My dad is a diesel truck mechanic and basically is the head mechanic where he works. He has spent a lot of money on tools, but by that I mean thousands, maybe $3k, $4k at most, not 10s of thousands. He has bought used tool boxs to save lots of money but of course only buys new tools. He has enough tools (save for air compressors, computers, lifts,etc.) to do basically anything to a diesel truck, and most passenger vehicles as well. I'm sure he has some specialized tools but ONLY if they are needed and no other tool can be substituted. And somehow he manages to do the job right because he doesn't want trucks coming back in to the shop.
3k is absolutely nothing. I could [did] spend over 1k just to work on a few FWD wheel bearings/hubs, and that includes no hand tools...spent over that much [1k] for just one 3/4 drive *airgun*...$850.00 on a battery tester...$400.00 for a short tracer...$200.00 for a few sockets...just some basic stuff. But I don't work on that many diesel trucks...just work on Acuras - Volvos, and pretty much everything in between, bumper-to-bumper, like most modern shops.
No offense MeanGreen, but the amount of money spent on tools means nothing to me. Its how you are able to fix whatever you are working on that matters. My Dad was also the head diesel mechanic before he retired. He has tools I never even knew existed. Estimated value is well over 20K mostly since he has been doing it for over 35 years, but a lot of his tools are MADE.
If he couldnt afford or find that tool he needed, or he was only going to use it 2 times a year, he made his own, usually for a single job, since he also designed and built one-off hydraulic systems for dump trucks, trash trucks, etc. He is also a damn fine welder and built packer bodies and all the related hydraulic and electrical systems FROM SCRATCH. He has tools that are as old as I am and are still in excellent condition. But he never paid $200 for sockets. he also taught me how to trace shorts without a $400 tracer He also built and tuned gas and diesel engines using only his ear,
He'd need more than his ear, today.
Quote:
to make sure it was right, and was swapping V8s into mini trucks and retrofitting fuel injection onto carbed engines before it was "cool". He didnt need fancy computers or expensive tools.
He'd sure need them in todays market.
Quote:
And all his experience and knowledge is being handed down to me, a little at a time. Wanna talk about experience? I got all I need just a few steps away.
Him being a good mechanic doesn't automatically make you a good mechanic. It's his years of hard work and experience, not yours.
Quote:
Need a set of master keys for a Peterbilt or Kenworth?? I got em. Need special tools for any domestic gas engine up to about 1990, including Flatheads? I got em too. Because all of his tools were given to me when he retired. You didnt see me bragging about it when I got all these seriously cool tools. I had to build another shed just to hold all of it
I almost never see a 1990 vehicle in my shop anymore.
Quote:
I respect the fact that you are well equiped for your job, but throwing around $$ figures is kind of sad.
Not when a backyard amatuer thinks that any mother with a $99.00 tool set from Sears can call themselves a professional and make a living at it.
Quote:
I have learned that even of you dont have a special tool to get the job done, its no problem. Either make your own or make do with what you have. I also understand that you have a lot of experience, but so does Kremit and others on here, and if I can save a few bucks and still do the job right following what they say, guess what, I just saved a few bucks
I guess less experience is better, even when it comes to every person at this group that hasn't done every job on their Contours themselves, taking their cars in to be fixed [I'm seeing it a lot, here], it's nice to go into it totally clueless, I guess.
Quote:
OTOH, you want to buy whatever special tool is needed for a certain job, and I can respect that, more power to you. But dont talk about having so many expensive tools, cause I can hang with that, and probably show you stuff you never knew existed.
Then there's no need for you to cry about a pro having more tools than a non-pro...if I go to a dentist, I want to see more than a piece of string and a screwdriver.
Quote:
My Dad (and probably Kremits too, probably about the same age) come from the old-school way of thinking. If you dont have the tool, you still gotta fix the problem. No need to go out and spend $$ if you dont have to.
We're living in the modern times now.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 340
CEG\'er
|
|
CEG\'er
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 340 |
Originally posted by Stryker:
Originally posted by CRZYDRVR:
Originally posted by Kremithefrog:
My dad is a diesel truck mechanic and basically is the head mechanic where he works. He has spent a lot of money on tools, but by that I mean thousands, maybe $3k, $4k at most, not 10s of thousands. He has bought used tool boxs to save lots of money but of course only buys new tools. He has enough tools (save for air compressors, computers, lifts,etc.) to do basically anything to a diesel truck, and most passenger vehicles as well. I'm sure he has some specialized tools but ONLY if they are needed and no other tool can be substituted. And somehow he manages to do the job right because he doesn't want trucks coming back in to the shop.
3k is absolutely nothing. I could [did] spend over 1k just to work on a few FWD wheel bearings/hubs, and that includes no hand tools...spent over that much [1k] for just one 3/4 drive *airgun*...$850.00 on a battery tester...$400.00 for a short tracer...$200.00 for a few sockets...just some basic stuff. But I don't work on that many diesel trucks...just work on Acuras - Volvos, and pretty much everything in between, bumper-to-bumper, like most modern shops.
No offense MeanGreen, but the amount of money spent on tools means nothing to me. Its how you are able to fix whatever you are working on that matters. My Dad was also the head diesel mechanic before he retired. He has tools I never even knew existed. Estimated value is well over 20K mostly since he has been doing it for over 35 years, but a lot of his tools are MADE.
If he couldnt afford or find that tool he needed, or he was only going to use it 2 times a year, he made his own, usually for a single job, since he also designed and built one-off hydraulic systems for dump trucks, trash trucks, etc. He is also a damn fine welder and built packer bodies and all the related hydraulic and electrical systems FROM SCRATCH. He has tools that are as old as I am and are still in excellent condition. But he never paid $200 for sockets. he also taught me how to trace shorts without a $400 tracer He also built and tuned gas and diesel engines using only his ear, to make sure it was right, and was swapping V8s into mini trucks and retrofitting fuel injection onto carbed engines before it was "cool". He didnt need fancy computers or expensive tools. And all his experience and knowledge is being handed down to me, a little at a time. Wanna talk about experience? I got all I need just a few steps away.
Need a set of master keys for a Peterbilt or Kenworth?? I got em. Need special tools for any domestic gas engine up to about 1990, including Flatheads? I got em too. Because all of his tools were given to me when he retired. You didnt see me bragging about it when I got all these seriously cool tools. I had to build another shed just to hold all of it
I respect the fact that you are well equiped for your job, but throwing around $$ figures is kind of sad. I have learned that even of you dont have a special tool to get the job done, its no problem. Either make your own or make do with what you have. I also understand that you have a lot of experience, but so does Kremit and others on here, and if I can save a few bucks and still do the job right following what they say, guess what, I just saved a few bucks
OTOH, you want to buy whatever special tool is needed for a certain job, and I can respect that, more power to you. But dont talk about having so many expensive tools, cause I can hang with that, and probably show you stuff you never knew existed.
My Dad (and probably Kremits too, probably about the same age) come from the old-school way of thinking. If you dont have the tool, you still gotta fix the problem. No need to go out and spend $$ if you dont have to.
Can we all just get along now?
well said, my dad is right there with yours CRZYDRVR.
So is my dad, but if he were asked to work on the modern cars that are being built and driven today, he'd get as far as opening the hood before he'd have to come over and start asking questions and having me to use my tools and my equipment.
|
|
|
|
|
