Contour Enthusiasts Group Archives Forums Modifications Zetec Maintenance Is the timing belt tensioner adjustable?

Originally posted by MeanGreen2:

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Originally posted by Kremithefrog:

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No it's not. It's because I'm sick and barely can type right now. It is right to a degree, that some correct tools are needed to do certain things on a car. But not again, a piece of metal is a piece of metal when it comes to the cam holding tool,

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It's not a holding tool, it's an alignment tool.


I know that, sorry I didn't use the correct wording.

Originally posted by Kremithefrog:

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ask anybody on here and they'll tell you if it's long enough/slim enough/strong enough, then it'll work. Though I'm looking at it more from a diy stand point, but I still wouldn't have a problem with a mechanic using a $2 file instead of a $30 piece of metal from ford to keep the cams in the correct position.

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I don't believe that. If a mechanic whipped out a backbone of a rainbow trout and said..."Hey, it works!"...you'd probably think...Hell, why am I paying this guy to do this, I could do that myself.


You/I/Anybody can do it themselves.

Originally posted by Kremithefrog:

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I don't see any other professionals in this thread, so why are you even talking about what a professional should do?

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Didn't Caltour try going to the professionls? You've been to the pros, others have been to the pros...so my advice should come in handy for those that go to the pros, and even the ones that don't.


It doesn't come in handy if you suggest by $10k worth of tools to work on a car worth $2k-$5k.

Originally posted by Kremithefrog:

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A professional knows what to have/do so you don't have to put it on here. I'd rather help somebody do it themselves.

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You think you know more than I do? How is knowing less better?

Didn't say that, I said I'd rather help someone do it themselves, rather than tell them the "by the book" way which they can easily find themselves (either in a book or on dvd/cd).

Originally posted by Kremithefrog:

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You're the kinda mechanic (like many, not all) that has a know-it-all attitude that would cause me, as a customer, to walk right out of your shop and go else where.

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SO...if you were to ask me about your car, and I were to say..."gee, d'uh...I don't know. D'oh!" while digging at my ear with an inkpen, you'd get real impressed and hand me your keys?

That would be a know-nothing attitude. But I've talked to mechanics that act like they are the ONLY person to ever work on a car and that the owner doesn't know anything about automobiles. You definitely seem to be one of those.

Originally posted by Kremithefrog:

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And I don't think the same of all "professionals", I've been to two professional shops, and they couldn't make my CEL go away, but I spent more time with it and got it to go away, and this time stay away. All with my $85 worth of computer scanning software, and my cheap tools/autozone loaner tools.

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Must have been fairly simple...and I hope that you enjoyed paying those professionals your money. They seemed not to be "know-it-alls"...just how you like it.

Actually I didn't pay them a thing.

Originally posted by Kremithefrog:

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Actually, it appears he was planning to get the pulley from a dealer in another state, but whatever.

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Keyword: Dealer

Keyword number 2 and 3: another state

Originally posted by Kremithefrog:

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I guess you didn't read/don't know what I said. I'm going into mechanical engineering. It's where I design what you work on.

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And you said that you think you coud make a living at it, but you don't like working on cars. So I guess we're back to my original question about you making a living at working on cars, since you're giving out advice about working on cars, not designing them.

Hmm, I work on my car out of necessity, and I give advice based on my experience and what obviously works. Even if you don't like it, other people appreciate it, and you can shove your head into your thousand dollar dvd to figure stuff out if you don't like how me and others on here do it ourselves.

Originally posted by Kremithefrog:

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I have to disagree with you on the price of tools. The average shop owner will spend $100k+, even $200k+ on tools,etc. (this is doing more than just timing belts though,, there are actually plenty of small shops that just do small things like timing belts and spend comparably very little on tools),

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That's why I made mention of those that limit themselves to just certain jobs.

Originally posted by Kremithefrog:

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but the average mechanic doesn't spend that much.

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I've seen mechanics spend $7,500+ just for a bottom tool box. And most mechanics I know from surrounding shops are expected to furnish all of their tools, while the *shop* takes care of the equipment...and that means that almost everyone that I see are spending $5 - $6k on OTC scanners, around $10k or so for Snap-On, etc...and that's just to get them started, has nothing to do with their other testers, their hand tools, etc...and if they don't have it, they buy it the next week when the toolman pulls up, because the others don't pass their tools around to the ones that don't like spending their own money for their own tools.


Remember, I said excluding all the computer stuff,etc. Yes I've seen people spend $7k+ on a tool box as well, I've seen people waste money on many things.

Originally posted by Kremithefrog:

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My dad is a diesel truck mechanic and basically is the head mechanic where he works. He has spent a lot of money on tools, but by that I mean thousands, maybe $3k, $4k at most, not 10s of thousands. He has bought used tool boxs to save lots of money but of course only buys new tools. He has enough tools (save for air compressors, computers, lifts,etc.) to do basically anything to a diesel truck, and most passenger vehicles as well. I'm sure he has some specialized tools but ONLY if they are needed and no other tool can be substituted. And somehow he manages to do the job right because he doesn't want trucks coming back in to the shop.

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3k is absolutely nothing. I could [did] spend over 1k just to work on a few FWD wheel bearings/hubs, and that includes no hand tools...spent over that much [1k] for just one 3/4 drive *airgun*...$850.00 on a battery tester...$400.00 for a short tracer...$200.00 for a few sockets...just some basic stuff. But I don't work on that many diesel trucks...just work on Acuras - Volvos, and pretty much everything in between, bumper-to-bumper, like most modern shops.

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Originally posted by MeanGreen2:

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It's not a holding tool, it's an alignment tool.

(etc etc)

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Originally posted by Kremithefrog:

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Originally posted by MeanGreen2:

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Originally posted by Kremithefrog:

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No it's not. It's because I'm sick and barely can type right now. It is right to a degree, that some correct tools are needed to do certain things on a car. But not again, a piece of metal is a piece of metal when it comes to the cam holding tool,

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It's not a holding tool, it's an alignment tool.


I know that, sorry I didn't use the correct wording.

Originally posted by Kremithefrog:

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ask anybody on here and they'll tell you if it's long enough/slim enough/strong enough, then it'll work. Though I'm looking at it more from a diy stand point, but I still wouldn't have a problem with a mechanic using a $2 file instead of a $30 piece of metal from ford to keep the cams in the correct position.

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I don't believe that. If a mechanic whipped out a backbone of a rainbow trout and said..."Hey, it works!"...you'd probably think...Hell, why am I paying this guy to do this, I could do that myself.


You/I/Anybody can do it themselves.

Originally posted by Kremithefrog:

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I don't see any other professionals in this thread, so why are you even talking about what a professional should do?

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Didn't Caltour try going to the professionls? You've been to the pros, others have been to the pros...so my advice should come in handy for those that go to the pros, and even the ones that don't.


It doesn't come in handy if you suggest by $10k worth of tools to work on a car worth $2k-$5k.

Originally posted by Kremithefrog:

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A professional knows what to have/do so you don't have to put it on here. I'd rather help somebody do it themselves.

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You think you know more than I do? How is knowing less better?

Didn't say that, I said I'd rather help someone do it themselves, rather than tell them the "by the book" way which they can easily find themselves (either in a book or on dvd/cd).

Originally posted by Kremithefrog:

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You're the kinda mechanic (like many, not all) that has a know-it-all attitude that would cause me, as a customer, to walk right out of your shop and go else where.

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SO...if you were to ask me about your car, and I were to say..."gee, d'uh...I don't know. D'oh!" while digging at my ear with an inkpen, you'd get real impressed and hand me your keys?

That would be a know-nothing attitude. But I've talked to mechanics that act like they are the ONLY person to ever work on a car and that the owner doesn't know anything about automobiles. You definitely seem to be one of those.

Originally posted by Kremithefrog:

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And I don't think the same of all "professionals", I've been to two professional shops, and they couldn't make my CEL go away, but I spent more time with it and got it to go away, and this time stay away. All with my $85 worth of computer scanning software, and my cheap tools/autozone loaner tools.

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Must have been fairly simple...and I hope that you enjoyed paying those professionals your money. They seemed not to be "know-it-alls"...just how you like it.

Actually I didn't pay them a thing.

Originally posted by Kremithefrog:

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Actually, it appears he was planning to get the pulley from a dealer in another state, but whatever.

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Keyword: Dealer

Keyword number 2 and 3: another state

Originally posted by Kremithefrog:

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I guess you didn't read/don't know what I said. I'm going into mechanical engineering. It's where I design what you work on.

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And you said that you think you coud make a living at it, but you don't like working on cars. So I guess we're back to my original question about you making a living at working on cars, since you're giving out advice about working on cars, not designing them.

Hmm, I work on my car out of necessity, and I give advice based on my experience and what obviously works. Even if you don't like it, other people appreciate it, and you can shove your head into your thousand dollar dvd to figure stuff out if you don't like how me and others on here do it ourselves.

Originally posted by Kremithefrog:

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I have to disagree with you on the price of tools. The average shop owner will spend $100k+, even $200k+ on tools,etc. (this is doing more than just timing belts though,, there are actually plenty of small shops that just do small things like timing belts and spend comparably very little on tools),

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That's why I made mention of those that limit themselves to just certain jobs.

Originally posted by Kremithefrog:

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but the average mechanic doesn't spend that much.

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I've seen mechanics spend $7,500+ just for a bottom tool box. And most mechanics I know from surrounding shops are expected to furnish all of their tools, while the *shop* takes care of the equipment...and that means that almost everyone that I see are spending $5 - $6k on OTC scanners, around $10k or so for Snap-On, etc...and that's just to get them started, has nothing to do with their other testers, their hand tools, etc...and if they don't have it, they buy it the next week when the toolman pulls up, because the others don't pass their tools around to the ones that don't like spending their own money for their own tools.


Remember, I said excluding all the computer stuff,etc. Yes I've seen people spend $7k+ on a tool box as well, I've seen people waste money on many things.

Originally posted by Kremithefrog:

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My dad is a diesel truck mechanic and basically is the head mechanic where he works. He has spent a lot of money on tools, but by that I mean thousands, maybe $3k, $4k at most, not 10s of thousands. He has bought used tool boxs to save lots of money but of course only buys new tools. He has enough tools (save for air compressors, computers, lifts,etc.) to do basically anything to a diesel truck, and most passenger vehicles as well. I'm sure he has some specialized tools but ONLY if they are needed and no other tool can be substituted. And somehow he manages to do the job right because he doesn't want trucks coming back in to the shop.

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3k is absolutely nothing. I could [did] spend over 1k just to work on a few FWD wheel bearings/hubs, and that includes no hand tools...spent over that much [1k] for just one 3/4 drive *airgun*...$850.00 on a battery tester...$400.00 for a short tracer...$200.00 for a few sockets...just some basic stuff. But I don't work on that many diesel trucks...just work on Acuras - Volvos, and pretty much everything in between, bumper-to-bumper, like most modern shops.

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Yeah I guess $3k is absolutely nothing to you. But my Dad can't afford to throw aftermarket parts away as you can. Heck, he can't even afford aftermarket parts right now for his vehicles. He works bumper to bumper on diesel trucks though with that $3k or $4k worth of tools. The shop he works at and shops he has worked at have always provided the battery testers,short tracers, a/c equipment, computer stuff,etc. They do that because around here, mechanics aren't paid a whole lot and they certainly don't start out with much money, so they can afford to buy all that stuff. It must be nice to live somewhere where you can charge so much that you can buy tens of thousands dollars worth of tools and throw away aftermarket parts. I feel sorry for your customers that have to pay for your $7k tool box.

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Originally posted by Paul Kienitz:

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Originally posted by MeanGreen2:

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It's not a holding tool, it's an alignment tool.

(etc etc)

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Look, you're going on at great length about the need for the proper tools... FOR A DIFFERENT JOB than the one under discussion.

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Originally posted by MeanGreen2:

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$3K is nothing to any mechanic that I know of, period.

And if your dad works bumper-to-bumper, I'd sure like to see what tools he has. Around here, 1" impacts are well over $1K...1 wrench can cost $100.00 or more, sockets $50.00 etc...but I'm talking quality...not junk.

And I won't say it again, I don't overcharge...my labor is 10 dollars per hour less than everbody else in the area, I don't oversell jobs and I never go over suggested retail, so just get off of that and face the facts that tools cost money...the more work that you do, the more tools are needed...more money is needed.

And $7K for a real tool box is cheap...I've seen mechanics spend closer to $20K

You just seem sour...and p*ssed because a pro knows more and owns more tools than you. Big shocker.

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Originally posted by Kremithefrog:

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Originally posted by MeanGreen2:

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$3K is nothing to any mechanic that I know of, period.

And if your dad works bumper-to-bumper, I'd sure like to see what tools he has. Around here, 1" impacts are well over $1K...1 wrench can cost $100.00 or more, sockets $50.00 etc...but I'm talking quality...not junk.

And I won't say it again, I don't overcharge...my labor is 10 dollars per hour less than everbody else in the area, I don't oversell jobs and I never go over suggested retail, so just get off of that and face the facts that tools cost money...the more work that you do, the more tools are needed...more money is needed.

And $7K for a real tool box is cheap...I've seen mechanics spend closer to $20K

You just seem sour...and p*ssed because a pro knows more and owns more tools than you. Big shocker.

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He doesn't have to buy his own impact wrenches. He has a couple torque wrenches that cost about $200 each, and he does have expensive wrenches, sockets, etc. but maybe not as expensive as the ones you get, but they seem to last him long enough and do the job right.

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Don't defend him. 2 - 3k as an investment for tools is nothing, and I think you know it.

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I don't care if you won't say it again, in fact that would be good. You obviously charge too much,

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Libelous lie duly noted

On this thread alone, I've noticed mechanics trying to charge about 2 hundred dollars more than I just did, for the same job, only I did more.

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and if it's less than others in the area, then they really charge too much. Suggested retail is often way too much, and I've never paid it. I realize there is a cost for the right tools,etc...

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"right tools,etc..."

See, you know that it's better to do it right, with the right tools...probably why you'd go to an actual dentist, instead of letting some DIYr use a pair of pliers on your teeth, and a rubber mallet on your head.

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but there is a limit.

Again, yes I've seen people waste money as well. I have never met a mechanic (in south georgia, like I said, you HAVE to be overcharging)

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I undercharge [fact].

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that has spent/or been able to spend $20k on a tool box. Mechanics around here simply don't get paid well enough to do that. There are some that spend $3k-$4k on a tool box, but they don't have families yet to care for, and they also have multiple credit cards. My dad has only bought used tool boxs, because even though he is the highest paid mechanic in his shop, he can't afford even a $2k tool box, atleast not if he expects to pay bills, support a family,etc.

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Too much information.

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I'm not sour or pissed, though it certainly seems you are. I'm not gonna doubt that you know more than me (when it comes to fixing cars anyways) or that you own more tools than me (I know grandmas that own more tools than me). I just disagree with you when it comes to the fact of you saying you "need" certain tools to work on a zetec, when I and countless others have proved otherwise.

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Are they the ones that "remove" their upper covers during the winter, because the belt keeps hitting it? And if you weren't so blinded by your rage and the economy in your area you'd realize that when I made mention of the required tools, it was for the person that was going to a professional...that's why I informed them that if they don't have the right tools, look confused, or get offended for being asked, the person might try finding another shop.

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I also, again, don't like your know-it-all attitude, because even though you may know a lot (about working on cars, or atleast you know what the books tell you), you don't know it all. Neither do I or your customers. But if I came to you with my car, you seem like the kinda mechanic that would act like I know nothing,

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If you came to my shop and I informed you that you're in luck because I have the right tools, and I never cut corners when it comes to procedure, like some lazy uncaring mechanic might, and you got in my face and tried to tell me that doing the job right is the wrong way to do it, I would hand your keys back to you and tell you to scoot.

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which is obviously untrue, and I wouldn't have you work on my car if you won't discuss intelligently with me what's wrong with it.

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Just so you can tell me how you would do it in your backyard? Well, guess what...that's what my shop is for, for those that don't believe in backyards and trust that doing it right with the right tools is right, not wrong. A lady had her Honda towed to us about three weeks ago. She was looking for a mechanic in the area to replace her timing belt and see what her coolant leak was...her "know-it-all" backyard friend said he could do the job and charge her a lot less than the pros...he ruined her engine for her and made her miss several days of work. He turned that job into nearly a $2,000.00 job, when it would have been much closer to $500.00 [C/Belt, B/S belt, W/P and B/S seal]...he wasn't out a dime though, just a little bit of his valuable time.

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The only reason I don't really enjoy working on cars is because I find it boring after doing it for more than a few minutes (except when diagnosing a problem using a scanner and recording/comparing information). I find working on cars to be very easy to do, and not much of a challenge.

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Tell that to the next pro that you come across, expert.

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I think it anybody could work on a car. I think even someone like my mom, who acts like she could never work on a car, actually could, if she wanted to. That's why I wanna design cars, not just work on them, hopefully (and I'm sure it will be) it'll be more of a challenge.

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Could she do a timing chain and a water pump on a quad engine, or figure out and repair a reoccuring no-start problem on a BMW, replace a heater core on a F-body, while the customer waits because they're already late for an appointment? She's up to the challenge, expert?

Dream on.

Originally posted by Kremithefrog:

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It doesn't come in handy if you suggest by $10k worth of tools to work on a car worth $2k-$5k.

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Didn't say that, I said I'd rather help someone do it themselves, rather than tell them the "by the book" way which they can easily find themselves (either in a book or on dvd/cd).

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That would be a know-nothing attitude. But I've talked to mechanics that act like they are the ONLY person to ever work on a car and that the owner doesn't know anything about automobiles. You definitely seem to be one of those.

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Keyword number 2 and 3: another state

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Hmm, I work on my car out of necessity, and I give advice based on my experience and what obviously works. Even if you don't like it, other people appreciate it, and you can shove your head into your thousand dollar dvd to figure stuff out if you don't like how me and others on here do it ourselves.

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Originally posted by MeanGreen2:

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It's OTC...easy to find.

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Originally posted by Paul Kienitz:

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Originally posted by MeanGreen2:

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It's OTC...easy to find.

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Wrong. I live in a major urban area and was told it would take at least 30 days and $80.

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Wrong. I can probably repeat what I did before...order it online and get it in 2 days...or at worst, order it off of one of the weekly tool men, and have it in the next week, not a month.

Originally posted by MeanGreen2:

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The tool IS for timing belt changes. I don't know what you're going on about. Are we even talking about the same thing?

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Originally posted by Paul Kienitz:

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It's handy for timing belt changes, but not necessary. It is necessary for cam timing adjustment.

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Are you talking about the tool [flat bar] that locks the cams? Fool, that alignment tool [flat bar] is an absolute must in order to set the cams in the "Valve Overlap" position...the settings have to be accurate.

Originally posted by MeanGreen2:

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LMAO...tell that to the next zetec owner that has an engine that won't idle and keeps setting codes, because the mechanic did such a sloppy job with *cardboard*...and allowing the cams to be a tooth off.

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Originally posted by Paul Kienitz:

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Look, getting the belt off by a whole tooth -- nine degrees -- takes such a degree of amateurishness and sloppiness that there is no excuse for it even if you are using no alignment tool at all.

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Who said it was okay? You? The same person that said cardboard would work as an alignment tool.

Originally posted by Paul Kienitz:

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Even if it happens, it's so easy to check for that the risk is really not there for anyone who knows what they're doing and is at all careful. I could do it right with no tool and a blindfold on. It just isn't difficult.

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Would you permit the use of cardboard?

Originally posted by MeanGreen2:

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The three tools are required because on the zetec you sometimes have to readjust the cams...

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Originally posted by Paul Kienitz:

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Yes, you do, but not as a normal part of a timing belt change! When you do need to, then the alignment tool is required.

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What are you going on about? The alignment tool will always be needed. What's wrong? You're unable to even use the proper terms for the tools?

Originally posted by MeanGreen2:

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and the peg tool has nothing to do with loosening the cam sprockets,

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Originally posted by Paul Kienitz:

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Who said it did? I mentioned that the peg was not needed to put on a timing belt, and then I mentioned in parentheses the other tool for holding cam sprockets. I gave you no reason to run the two together.

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I think that someone said that the peg is only needed when the cams need to be moved...so...why...the belt is meant to work as the cam holding tool, instead of an actual tool, allowing the crank to stay locked while the belt gets destroyed?

Originally posted by Kremithefrog:

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My dad is a diesel truck mechanic and basically is the head mechanic where he works. He has spent a lot of money on tools, but by that I mean thousands, maybe $3k, $4k at most, not 10s of thousands. He has bought used tool boxs to save lots of money but of course only buys new tools. He has enough tools (save for air compressors, computers, lifts,etc.) to do basically anything to a diesel truck, and most passenger vehicles as well. I'm sure he has some specialized tools but ONLY if they are needed and no other tool can be substituted. And somehow he manages to do the job right because he doesn't want trucks coming back in to the shop.

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3k is absolutely nothing. I could [did] spend over 1k just to work on a few FWD wheel bearings/hubs, and that includes no hand tools...spent over that much [1k] for just one 3/4 drive *airgun*...$850.00 on a battery tester...$400.00 for a short tracer...$200.00 for a few sockets...just some basic stuff. But I don't work on that many diesel trucks...just work on Acuras - Volvos, and pretty much everything in between, bumper-to-bumper, like most modern shops.

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No offense MeanGreen, but the amount of money spent on tools means nothing to me. Its how you are able to fix whatever you are working on that matters. My Dad was also the head diesel mechanic before he retired. He has tools I never even knew existed. Estimated value is well over 20K mostly since he has been doing it for over 35 years, but a lot of his tools are MADE.

If he couldnt afford or find that tool he needed, or he was only going to use it 2 times a year, he made his own, usually for a single job, since he also designed and built one-off hydraulic systems for dump trucks, trash trucks, etc. He is also a damn fine welder and built packer bodies and all the related hydraulic and electrical systems FROM SCRATCH. He has tools that are as old as I am and are still in excellent condition. But he never paid $200 for sockets. he also taught me how to trace shorts without a $400 tracer He also built and tuned gas and diesel engines using only his ear, to make sure it was right, and was swapping V8s into mini trucks and retrofitting fuel injection onto carbed engines before it was "cool". He didnt need fancy computers or expensive tools. And all his experience and knowledge is being handed down to me, a little at a time. Wanna talk about experience? I got all I need just a few steps away.

Need a set of master keys for a Peterbilt or Kenworth?? I got em. Need special tools for any domestic gas engine up to about 1990, including Flatheads? I got em too. Because all of his tools were given to me when he retired. You didnt see me bragging about it when I got all these seriously cool tools. I had to build another shed just to hold all of it

I respect the fact that you are well equiped for your job, but throwing around $$ figures is kind of sad. I have learned that even of you dont have a special tool to get the job done, its no problem. Either make your own or make do with what you have. I also understand that you have a lot of experience, but so does Kremit and others on here, and if I can save a few bucks and still do the job right following what they say, guess what, I just saved a few bucks

OTOH, you want to buy whatever special tool is needed for a certain job, and I can respect that, more power to you. But dont talk about having so many expensive tools, cause I can hang with that, and probably show you stuff you never knew existed.

My Dad (and probably Kremits too, probably about the same age) come from the old-school way of thinking. If you dont have the tool, you still gotta fix the problem. No need to go out and spend $$ if you dont have to.

Can we all just get along now?