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Joined: Aug 2001
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Hard-core CEG'er
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Hard-core CEG'er
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I don't think that we can issue a blanket statement and say the auto is useless.
The problem with the 3L/ATX before was mainly from the modified high-stall torque converter and not the other tranny mods.
It seems to me that the answer is to take a healthy CD4E and mating it to a 3L with proper planning in mind. Use the stock converter until we find out through multiple swaps if they are strong enough or not. The converter may not be the weak point, it may just be clutch pack strength. Everything on the transmission may work fine.
The areas where I could forsee issues with the 3L/ATX literally would be how much clutch area is in each clutch pack. More torque may mean it will slip more than designed with each shift and wear out quicker. It may not though.
Why can't someone start searching around for better clutches? Is ther room in the clutch packs to increase the number of clutches and steels by one or two more?
Combine stronger clutches with the faster shifting valve body (like the sonnex ones?) and maybe you will have a transmission that will handle a 3L for the long haul.
However with all that said, just pick up a couple of used ones from the junk yard as a backup for the stock one. Run the stock one with a 3L and see how long it lasts.
Plan for the future that now you will use the atx and see how long it lasts in stock form with the intent to build a stronger performance version that you can put in later.
Former owner of '99 CSVT - Silver #222/2760
356/334 wHP/TQ at 10psi on pump gas!
See My Mods
'05 Volvo S40 Turbo 5 AWD with 6spd, Passion Red
'06 Mazda5 Touring, 5spd,MTX, Black
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,651
Hard-core CEG\'er
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Hard-core CEG\'er
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Some one on here had a 3l with an auto. It has been done, he went threw 2 of them. I believe it was Russel something or an other.
Either way a 3l auto would be nice. To invest in an auto would be pointlesss compard to just buying an mx. I know u know that Warmonger. You know alot. To add a turbo to the existing 3liter with an auto. Is just asking for alot of wasted downtime and money for the car for whe nit breaks.
Hey if you wnat to have fun go do it. If you hav emoney to waste, have fun. Too me it is too much of an investment. I would just buy a tauras with an auto if i wanted 1 that bad.
I reject your reality and substitute my own.
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 5,810
Hard-core CEG'er
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Hard-core CEG'er
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Originally posted by Rickson:
Some one on here had a 3l with an auto. It has been done, he went threw 2 of them. I believe it was Russel something or an other.
Either way a 3l auto would be nice. To invest in an auto would be pointlesss compard to just buying an mx. I know u know that Warmonger. You know alot. To add a turbo to the existing 3liter with an auto. Is just asking for alot of wasted downtime and money for the car for whe nit breaks.
Hey if you wnat to have fun go do it. If you hav emoney to waste, have fun. Too me it is too much of an investment. I would just buy a tauras with an auto if i wanted 1 that bad.
Yes, Russel3L and he built his tranny up in anticipation, only it was some of the build-up that was faulty, not necessarily the stock hardware. Hence why I said try it stock and get a backup trans to work on while he drives it around with a working 3L. This gives him first hand knowledge of how it drives and what he needs to do to a stock tranny to make it work. It is an approach that will at least keep out the guesswork because he can deal with problems if/when they crop up.
I disagree, I don't Know that it would be pointless to invest in an ATX versus buying an MTX. Maybe he wants the easy launch of an atx, maybe he just wants to make something work that no one else has managed to do over the long term very reliably. I would agree with you if there were 10 3L atx cars that all failed the same way but we've had maybe two and they aren't well documented. There are too many ATXs out there to throw the idea away especially if one were to figure out how to make the project work.
There are more atx than mtx contours hence a bigger market. More 3L contours means more contour power on the road. How funny it would be to see a 3L SE atx walking a heavily modded 2.5L SVT. Make that SVT owner get off his butt and develop his car.
Adding a turbo to it? Well I didn't take that seriously yet as the first bridge is a working 3L ATX right? It can be kept in mind but put on the back burner till the first problem is dealt with.
Also, A straight full 3L swap isn't hard and would be the most appropriate engine setup for the ATX as it was originally mated to an atx. Then he can decide to add a power adder. I'd recommend the Thomas Knight supercharger instead of the turbo due to the limited room with the ATX taking up the space where we normally put the turbo.
Also, the supercharger has a much more linear increase in power as rpms build that would nicely compliment the ATX engine and if geared properly with the right level of boost it could be setup to maximize torque in the middle to high end of the powerband and really overcome the power sucking tendency of the slushbox ATX. In short it would be a worthy project and make a nice running sleeper.
All it will take is some drive and ingenuity.
However, I do get your point about the easier more proven route versus breaking new ground. And he may not be the best candidate to try this, but who knows. 
Its my job to motivate him not tear him down. Its not the same as the newbie who jumps on here and saying I'm getting a T3/4 with my SVT and 20psi to make 500 HP only I haven't got the car yet but I'll get it when my dad buys it for me next week...etc.
THEN I wouldn't even bother.
Former owner of '99 CSVT - Silver #222/2760
356/334 wHP/TQ at 10psi on pump gas!
See My Mods
'05 Volvo S40 Turbo 5 AWD with 6spd, Passion Red
'06 Mazda5 Touring, 5spd,MTX, Black
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 22
New CEG\'er
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i like trying new things, and learning too ... i was just outside for the last few hours working my dash shroad. I am fixing wadespencers (over on neco) fiberglassed 7" eclipse screen. I bought it from him earlier this week, and received it yesterday. The fiberglass WAS pulling from the plastic shroad. Point being, i've known i wanted a screen for months. It was my plan. The time came, I had the cash, I've used many other people stepping stones to know what I had to do ... so i did it. In a few days i'll have what i have planned to have for months. I did it myself, i learned to fiberglass, and i'm planning on it to have mistakes, to learn some more.
As stated earlier, I don't know if I will be fully going through with the project of the 3L. This all depends on how fast i can get the parts, if I get everything and get everything together ok, and aslong as I feel I can without a doubt get the thing running. I am not looking to be the fastest car out there, nor the fastest atx/mtx ford contour/cougar platform. Thomas Knight supercharger seems cool, except i don't know if it is worth it. Many of you guys had mixed reviews on it, and I havn't seen any feedback from people who have installed them (are they even shipped out yet?). The Long Island chapter of NECO has 2-3 other members besides myself looking to put in 3L engines. The other two members are also ATX's, but are looking to go all out ... more or less. I know one is def. going with a 3L hybrid, and looking into the TK superchager. He's going to spend twice or three times as much as I am, and not learn a damn thing. He's having a local shop put it in for him, at $500-$800. Me? I've done months of research, and am not looking to go any crazy length. If i blow the ATX, I'm sure i could find another one ... considering the ATX in the contour/cougar is the same, and i believe it might also be the same on the escape/taurus (different mounts or something though, i forgot). I'm sure I could find another one for cheap for the time being, while I could have the one i blew examined to find out why.
Points being, I have no problem spending a little money to learn. Second, i've cut enough corners by doing a full 01 taurus, instead of the hybrid, to be able to spend a few hundred dollards or another $1000 to replace my ATX with another or an MTX, while finding out what happened to the original. I am going to purchase a tranny cooler and if i can find any other good precautions i will.
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 22
New CEG\'er
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and ya know, that SC doesn't sound like too bad of an idea. I'd still like to throw a BOV on it, and I believe blackcoog is also throwing an intercooler ... it will have to be something i'm going to have to look into. During that its a belt driven turbine, theres no need for any sort of exhaust mods ... therefore the exhaust manifolds and all stay as they are? I am def. going to have to do some more research on this thing, and what i need to do to get it running.
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Joined: Aug 2001
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Hard-core CEG'er
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Originally posted by 99CougarNY:
and ya know, that SC doesn't sound like too bad of an idea. I'd still like to throw a BOV on it, and I believe blackcoog is also throwing an intercooler ... it will have to be something i'm going to have to look into. During that its a belt driven turbine, theres no need for any sort of exhaust mods ... therefore the exhaust manifolds and all stay as they are? I am def. going to have to do some more research on this thing, and what i need to do to get it running.
That is correct.
A straight 3L drop in or a limited conversion to your cougar intake manifolds if you want the engine (like what I did the first time) to look stock and perform like a better version of stock. THe escape/taurus cams are pretty good for an ATX.
The supercharger will leave your exhaust alone so a good set of headers and an open 2.5" exhuast will serve you very well.
It really will be very easy, do the same basic preparations for the 3L that we all do to prep it and drop in other than check for changes on mating the crank to the flexplate and torque converter...if there are any. Make sure the rod bearings are good to go, just spend the $ and buy the clevite77 so you have no headaches and you can be sure at the same time.
Put it together with the right timing cover and your choice of intakes.
Then you have to put reflash the code to support the 3L modifications. All that means is use big enough MAF and injectors. I'd convert over to the stock intake manifolds so I didn't have to deal with the fuel rail issue or ANY other conversion issues.
After that you MUST completely flush your transmission and install a quality external oil cooler at a minimum.
If you've got the extra cash, the time, and a little courage  :
While the engine is out you can probably crack open the ATX. Order a new gasket and seal kit, new clutches and steels.
Clean everything well and soak everything in clean new ATF before putting it back together.
If it is anything like a normal ATX you can pull the clutch packs apart and install new clutches and steels and new seals on the pistons. When you carefully put it back together you will basically have a rebuilt ATX for only a few $hundreds.
Then you drive it and save for the supercharger.
Former owner of '99 CSVT - Silver #222/2760
356/334 wHP/TQ at 10psi on pump gas!
See My Mods
'05 Volvo S40 Turbo 5 AWD with 6spd, Passion Red
'06 Mazda5 Touring, 5spd,MTX, Black
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 22
New CEG\'er
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OP
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S your saying while i have the engine apart, throw a pro-flow MAF on it, upgrade the injectors to? (I thought the 01 taurus had 24#? or was it 19?). I had plans to do the clevite 77's, but I was going to stick with the stock taurus LIM. I didn't want to touch either, because that means more gaskets, headaches, and what not ... I little welding for the fuel rail shouldn't be too bad.
As far as the tranny goes, I was told flushing it at high miles when its never been flushed before (bought the car used about 2 years ago) can actually cause problems, and that I would be better off to leave it alone. I do agree with the packs, torque convert, and everything else.
I plan on buying the engine first, then all the stuff for it ... svt tb, cable, etc. the clevite 77's, and what not .. updated oil pan and gaskets, and i'll probably even buy the timing parts as well. This way I can build the complete engine, outside the car, ready to go in. No headaches when I put the 2.5L out, thinking about how I need to swap things out of it. The only thing i'd probably do, possibly, is buy the SC right before i drop the 3L in. That way when it arrives I can do the pulleys and anything else outside of the car as well. Also, only pay for one dyno =) I think it would be sick to even come clost to 275-300wHP in a cougar ... but thats just me i guess.
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Joined: Sep 2002
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Hard-core CEG'er
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ya don't change the ATF fluid...it'll destroy your trans... 
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 2,097
Hard-core CEG\'er
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Originally posted by MapOfTaziFoSho:
ya don't change the ATF fluid...it'll destroy your trans...
I used to think that way too until I changed my tranny fluid 2 weeks ago in my wife's Explorer that we have had for a short time. I thought it would be a good idea.
it barely drove after that and I picked it up Friday from the tranny shop with a rebuild in it. It doesn't screw it up, but it sure helps it go faster.
98 E0 SVT with some stuff
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Joined: Sep 2002
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Hard-core CEG'er
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Originally posted by stilov:
Originally posted by MapOfTaziFoSho:
ya don't change the ATF fluid...it'll destroy your trans...
I used to think that way too until I changed my tranny fluid 2 weeks ago in my wife's Explorer that we have had for a short time. I thought it would be a good idea.
it barely drove after that and I picked it up Friday from the tranny shop with a rebuild in it. It doesn't screw it up, but it sure helps it go faster.
I changed it in my Buick lesabre prior to her demise and it ran great afterwards. Basically all winter it was fantastic.
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