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Originally posted by caltour:
In this case, we would have to dredge up specific media reports and news summaries, examine them for error, and then try to determine whether those particular errors caused people to have anti-U.S. sentiments that they otherwise would not have had. A very big task.
This is what I was thinking...I would love to have the time and search expertice to do this but it is a daunting task..Review key papers/journals from that time period in many languages/countries, review declassified naval documents on our 1982 mission and that of Lebanon based Marines (it was a long time ago..memory gets a bit hazy), review the past recordings of OBL and other works about him. Would need the resources of a network news agency...how ironic.
So it will probably remain just a theory. I do know one guy who might know some answers. John Lehman...a member of the 9/11 commision..and, in 1982, was SecNav - Secretary of the Navy..
A good place to start asking questions if one had the connections.
1999 Amazon Green SVT Contour (#554/2760)
"People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use."
-Soren Kierkegaard (as posted by Jato)
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Originally posted by Dan Nixon:
For me its kind of the next level of concern...beyond political or other "bias" and actually thinking that media could actually be DRIVING/Causing key world events to a moderate or great degree that one would not expect...VERY creepy!
<<< (Former newspaper man. Father was a newspaper publisher. Two uncles and two cousins were/are newspaper publishers/ men)
You're getting too close to one of the "free press" dirty little secrets. Remember, you must never get into a fight with people who buy ink by the barrel.
Example of how the press can twist things to influence public opinion: GWs college records = he was an idiot. JKs records from the same college, similar grades = he's an intellectual & far beyond the average person & too nuanced to be easily understood by us mere peasants. Even now after the full story has come to light, who regards GW & JK as near equalls that the record shows them to be. The impression lingers. Damage is done.
Back away or ... write a book. A potential best seller if approached & written properly.
<<< (begins searching for the journalism sheepskin...)
News media took it on the chin once before in the hayday of "Yellow" journalism. It can happen again.
Must be that jumbly-wumbly thing happening again.
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Originally posted by TourDeForce:
Example of how the press can twist things to influence public opinion: GWs college records = he was an idiot.
that was the impression given off from most of gwb's pubic appearances, state of the union addresses, and performance in at least the first debate. bush is just not a strong public speaker. kerry clearly outclassed bush in that area.
that impression weighed heavily on many white collar workers, intellectuals, and sophisticates where strong communication is required in order to be successful.
however bush gave off a stronger sense of commitment and resolve. both sides used the press but it was more successful in the final days for the grand ol party the way dubbed "skerry" the person who wouldn't be able to finish the job and stay the course and would legalize gay marriage.
'03 Saab 9-5 Aero
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Originally posted by TourDeForce:
You're getting too close to one of the "free press" dirty little secrets. Remember, you must never get into a fight with people who buy ink by the barrel.
Gulp...
Yeah...this has been building as I watched the elections unfold with both sides trying OVERLY (not even subtle) to shape the election results (ie. Swift Boat Vets amplified by Fox....the Bush National Guard fiasco for Rather/CBS), a great study for future would be journalists.
But this was a bigger scale to me and when it dawned on me, these isolated facts, it put a lump in my throat. The possibility of igniting a world war...an order of magnitude greater that the usual partisan political crap that I have become almost numb to.
1999 Amazon Green SVT Contour (#554/2760)
"People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use."
-Soren Kierkegaard (as posted by Jato)
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Originally posted by Dan Nixon:
The possibility of igniting a world war...an order of magnitude greater that the usual partisan political crap that I have become almost numb to.
This is not in any way meant to cheapen the discussion here, but that was a plotline for a recent James Bond movie.
Carry on, good stuff!
-- 1999 SVT #220 --
In retrospect, it was all downhill from here. RIP, CEG.
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I am sure this sounds pretty melodramatic....and "conspiracy theoryish" but I have been remained a little bothered by this for a month or so. Its really is probably nothing but a bad gut feeling.
You guys are a diverse and capable lot..If anybody has the means to dig around the old Arabic/BBC/NYTimes/? papers cicra 1982 in their spare time..search USS Independence/Habib/Lebanon/Beruit for starters and you can "own the story". Just let me know what you find.
1999 Amazon Green SVT Contour (#554/2760)
"People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use."
-Soren Kierkegaard (as posted by Jato)
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Originally posted by BP:
Originally posted by TourDeForce:
Example of how the press can twist things to influence public opinion: GWs college records = he was an idiot.
that was the impression given off from most of gwb's pubic appearances, state of the union addresses, and performance in at least the first debate. bush is just not a strong public speaker. kerry clearly outclassed bush in that area.
Oh, yeah. I remember that before I forgot it...
Must be that jumbly-wumbly thing happening again.
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I think it's basically just Bin Laden just talking out his arse. He was more than happy to work with the CIA until we pulled out of Afghanistan in '89. He's probably just trying to rewrite his own history to make it look like he wasn't just a kid with connections to money when he started his group.
E0 #36
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'82 Honda CX500
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You may be right...he may have just been rambling. That is kind of what I thought at first "what the hell is he talking about". Again, it remains just a theory. But the more I look at the media...the more I see it in a new light.
1999 Amazon Green SVT Contour (#554/2760)
"People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use."
-Soren Kierkegaard (as posted by Jato)
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