in order to improve the gas mileage for my car I want to have the UIM and LIM cleaned.
My ford dealer offers a tec called "Emissions Service" which include IM cleaning along with some other things I did not ask about.
What else should I have cleaned or changed and check to improve gas mileage?
That sounds like it'll just be the TB cleaning of the EGR passages. You're much better off doing it yourself. Not at all difficult & you'll spend more time driving to/from the dealer than you will performing the cleaning.
TourDeForce shop person said that they would remove the manifold to clean it and that sounds like a lot of work to this layman.
and what does EGR and TB stand for?
EGR - Exhaust Gas Recirculation System
TB - Throttle Body!
I see that I did not mention it but ford emission service cost 119.00 for anybody that wants to know
For that money I'm very surprised that they do the UIM thing. Pulling the throttle body off the UIM sure, but pulling a UIM for the cleaning - that's a considerable amount of extra work for $119. That's a great deal then. I would be double checking if I was spending the money - just to be sure I knew what I was getting for the money.
Pep boys does a TB cleaning for around $80. They pull the TB & scrape out the EGR passages like our typical TB cleaning How-To. I don't trust Pep-Boys any more, not even for tires, so I do all this myself.
I would never trust pep boys either, I took my car in for an overheating problem due to a bad water pump and they wanted to charge me $700++ for diagnosis and they said it was caused by my o2 sensors.
I still have my estimate from them.
I just did had my Throttle Body off, and it's very easy to remove. Trickyest part was removing the throttle cables, and that was easy in itself. Cleaning it was cake as well. TB cleaner and a rag was all I used, stuff I had at home. Don't take it to the dealer to have this done.
i got some spark plug wires from there and had them less than 3 months went to try and remove them to remove the spark plugs and had to tear them to pieces to get them off, then i call up there to see if they are under warrenty, which they were, and find out i need the receipt because they dont keep all there purchase info in the computers like autozone and advance
SO to improve gas mileage I should have these items cleaned
LIM,
UIM,
Heads,
fuel rail,
injectors,
EGR,
TB,
Is there anything else combustion and/or emission related that should be cleaned.
I will make sure to check the cleaning of these items is included in the $119 emission check up tec being offered at ford.
If they clean all of that for $119 I'll eat my hat!!!!
Originally posted by Mondeo V6:
If they clean all of that for $119 I'll eat my hat!!!!
I'm thinkin'... We'll see.
I made a appoitment to take the car in on wednesday 3.12.2004 to Ford to have this LIM, UIM, Heads, fuel rail, injectors, EGR, and TB cleaned. I hope that this type of cleaning will all be included in their emission's tec for $119. I will let you guys know of the results.
I guess I will have my mounts changed at another time for $800+ because I do not know what the cost of the above will be.
Originally posted by contour_phoenix_when:
I made a appoitment to take the car in on wednesday 3.12.2004 to Ford to have this LIM, UIM, Heads, fuel rail, injectors, EGR, and TB cleaned. I hope that this type of cleaning will all be included in their emission's tec for $119. I will let you guys know of the results.
I guess I will have my mounts changed at another time for $800+ because I do not know what the cost of the above will be.
Get a quote from the service writer to protect yourself. These are all just cleanings & labor should not be difficult to figure out. Get a quote or all that may end up costing you several hundred dollars that you may not have been expecting.
I made the mistake of takin' my BMW to the dealer once. I got a quote for a timing belt install & valve adjustments. They performed all kinds of extra work - including oil seals. All the extra stuff would have cost me another $900, but because I had a quote and they did not have the authorization to do additional work, I got all the extra stuff for free. I did offer to pay for the parts & finally did just that.
how much do you guys think it would it cost to have the ford dealer perform the Intake (upper/lower) system rebuild found in the faq
Originally posted by TourDeForce:
Pep boys does a TB cleaning for around $80. They pull the TB & scrape out the EGR passages like our typical TB cleaning How-To. I don't trust Pep-Boys any more, not even for tires, so I do all this myself.
I dont trust those morons either took them five times to finally fix my serpentine belt so it wouldnt squeal anymore.
If I were to have ford perform the Intake (upper/lower) system rebuild found in the FAQ should I let them know before I take the car in to have this work done and so must have them order these parts before hand or can I assume that they will have these parts in stock. My service appointmentis one week away so maybe I should call them back and speak to the service writer guy and possibly email them the FAQ notifying them what parts are necessary
Within an earily post I stated that FOrd offers an Emissions tec for 119. thinking that all of this work would be included but after adding up the cost for these parts minus the PCV and determining there price to be a minimum of $239.31 I would have to say that I made a wrong assumption.
Upper intake manifold gasket P/N
F5RZ-9H486-B (1 set) ~US $18
Injector nose O-rings
F0PZ-9229-A (pkg of 10) US $7.57 (1995-97 only)
Upper injector O-rings
F5RZ-9229-AB (comes in a pkg of 6, but you are charged for each) US $17.16 (1995-97 only)
Lower intake manifold gasket
F5RZ-9439-B (1 set) US $18.10
Fuel rail to lower intake manifold seals
F5RZ-9P867-A (you need 6) US $13.32 for 6 (1995-97 only)
Fuel pressure regulator
F4SZ-9C968-A US $41.81
IMRC linkage grommets (3 for 1995-97, 2 for 1998+)
F5RZ-9F955-AB ~US $15
UIM Plastic Retainer Grommet with brass insert sleeve
F5RZ-2A411-A ~US $8-10
Throttle body gasket
F5DZ-9E936-AE ~US $1.95
EGR gasket
E6AZ-9D476-B US $1.35
IAC gasket
E83Z-9F670-A ~US <$1
parts total 239.31
Order the parts from Bill Jenkins. He quoted me prices less than that.
will be going to the ford dealer tomorrow to arrange to order the parts for the intake overhall FAQ because it is assumed that since this car is a 95 the parts will not be in the shop.
Originally posted by contour_phoenix_when:
Fuel rail to lower intake manifold seals
F5RZ-9P867-A (you need 6) US $13.32 for 6 (1995-97 only)
These are the last things I [censored] need, and I was just quoted at one (of 2 dealerships in all of the chicago area carrying it) dealership for $9.00 A PIECE! That 9 x 6 = $54.00!!! Theres more rubber on a condom, how could they charge so much?!
OK so now I called the OTHER dealership that has it in stock, and they are charging 4.90 a piece, which comes out to be just under 30 dollars all together, still a rip off. I called the other place back and asked them about it, and actually the price went up, its now 9.40! This gets even funnier because I asked him if it was because the part is so rare in the area, and he mumbled out something about no set price B.S.
Do I really have to call Bill Jenkins and wait a week for this stuff to come in? Both of these dealerships are an hour away, and I dont get to borrow my mom's car very often.
Yes, Bill quotes are lower than that.
Well I took the FAQ over to ford.
They took a look at it and assumed that they were being served papers. LOL
More seriously they said that they did not have one standard tec that covers everything listed on that FAQ. They mentoned the chemical flushing of the IM, TB, EGR as being a cheaper option because once it was determined that the manifold had to be removed a price if $600+ was thrown into the air. Then they check the tec for manifold removal cleaning and seal replacement and found a price of $324. But the problem is that the faq requires more work. So I left the FAQ with them and I will be expecting a call mon or tues with an estimate on how much that FAQ would cost.
By the way he acted very suprized when I mentioned that a car groups exists and makes recommendations as to how to service a car.
One more thing he mentioned that an additional problem with removing a manifold for cleaning is that serveral sensors have to be unpluged and that during the unplugging those sensors could be damaged and no longer work properly and so possibly might have to be replaced as well. I will re read the FAQ to see how many and which sensors must be disconnected and then get a price on them just to be prepared to pay that additional cost.
So is the chemical wash out of the manifold a more appropriate and less costly tech that would give the same or similar effect of this FAQ?
Originally posted by contour_phoenix_when:
Well I took the FAQ over to ford.
They took a look at it and assumed that they were being served papers. LOL
More seriously they said that they did not have one standard tec that covers everything listed on that FAQ. They mentoned the chemical flushing of the IM, TB, EGR as being a cheaper option because once it was determined that the manifold had to be removed a price if $600+ was thrown into the air. Then they check the tec for manifold removal cleaning and seal replacement and found a price of $324. But the problem is that the faq requires more work. So I left the FAQ with them and I will be expecting a call mon or tues with an estimate on how much that FAQ would cost.
By the way he acted very suprized when I mentioned that a car groups exists and makes recommendations as to how to service a car.
One more thing he mentioned that an additional problem with removing a manifold for cleaning is that serveral sensors have to be unpluged and that during the unplugging those sensors could be damaged and no longer work properly and so possibly might have to be replaced as well. I will re read the FAQ to see how many and which sensors must be disconnected and then get a price on them just to be prepared to pay that additional cost.
So is the chemical wash out of the manifold a more appropriate and less costly tech that would give the same or similar effect of this FAQ?
So they see that you are willing to pay close to a thousand dollars for a simple job like this, and they figure that they can milk more money out of you. There is no sensor that goes bad after being unplugged. Thats almost like saying that you have to replace these sensors if your battery goes out. I spent 200 dollars in gaskets, seals, and cleaning solution. I finished the entire FAQ on the UIM/LIM rebuild including the fuel system. It was my first time digging in that deep into the engine, and my car started up yesterday, and it is 100% better now. If someone can host my pictures, then I will put them up on this page.
My thanks to Greatgonzo and MercuryMiskik99 in advance for putting up the pics. I need all the help I can get since I'm nervous about digging into my engine so deep.
Thanks guys
Thank you Greatgonzo for offering to host, but I got a month's trial from fototime that I can use for the time being. If anybody wants to use the pictures for reference (they arent that great) then I'd save them.
Here is the top of the LIM with the wiring harness still going down the middle.
A close-up...
Here's my partner in crime getting started on cleaning my LIM. (good guy, but didnt do much to that thing)
Here I have my LIM out and the ports in the head plugged up with shop towels. Wiring/injector harness still above it and fuel rail with injectors are sitting on the side.
A close up of dirty injectors with dirty seals (must replace those seals)
I dont remember if I posted it here, or somewhere else, but I had to drive around to find the new injector seals. I found out there the new seals are a revised version, and although it looks like it is worse... I must agree that they work much better (after inspecting how the fit).
I have the old ones and new ones sitting side-by-side.
Here is the newly cleaned fuel-rail (sitting on the side, you dont have to disconnect it). I cleaned it with injector cleaner and throttle body cleaner. I also put the new seals on the injectors. I have no pictures, but I also removed the injectors and put new o-rings (NOT MANDATORY).
Here is a picture of the top of the head all clean. I am positive I took a dirty picture of it, but for some reason it didnt stay on my POS camera. You gotta be careful when cleaning this part so as not to let anything fall into those ports. The ports inside look dirty, but it only goes for a few inches before the opening to the cylinder. Just plug up those holes and clean the surface are with TB cleaner and Berryman's B12 Chemtool.
If you look closely inside, you can see the cam where the air gets let into the cylinder. Kinda intimidating for a first-timer.
Place the new LIM gaskets on the head...
It was pretty-time consuming, but I got her clean. Lotsa rags, shop towels, BERRYMANS really helped here, and even Qtips for the hard to reach spots. Its a rewarding job.
This part of the LIM is where the injectors/fuel-rail end up. This is where those seals do their job.
LIM re-installed, fuel-rail and injectors back in place.
UIM gasket.
I replaced my PCV valve while I was in there. Its the round black thing in the tube in the middle of the picture. It has an attatchment to it with one hose on it and another spot where the hose from the UIM will go. To give you a better sense of it's location, the rusty thing cut off at the top of the picture is where the EGR valve is sitting (the wierd UFO in the back).
Here is the under-side of the UIM. I took the advice of a fellow CEG-er, and took it to the carwash. I sprayed the hell out of it after a lot of soaking with berryman's and throttle body cleaner. I just stuck the hose in there and sprayed, and washed off in all areas that I could. After it dried off I did finishing touches. I believe this is the hardest part to clean, and the carwash idea was awesome.
Wider shot of the underside of the UIM. Hasnt visited the carwash yet.
I apologize for the large pictures, the long download time, and the huge post. I hope this helps. It was fun to do, pretty easy and straightforward. Just follow the how-to, that was my main reference and I had it printed out. If you dont know what they are talking about in any parts of it, just PM me or ask anybody on the site.
The power re-gain I had is amazing. My idle is smooth as silk now, the CEL codes for misfiring, running lean in both banks, and IAC problem are now gone. I did change my spark plugs, so im sure that helped with the misfiring. The job was very rewarding and I am very happy with the response of power. Make sure you clean that throttle body too.
Before/after shot:
if they are damaging sensors when removing them, they are doing something wrong. do they change the oil pan too each time they do an oil change?
and what else would car clubs be for? arent they there for support at all levels?
Between the FAQ and how to for UIM/LIM cleaning and those pics you took... I'm going to tackle that this weekend. How much time did it take you to do all of this? Start to finish.
I had a week of down-time, but that is only because of shortage of supplies and parts (didnt buy everything before tearing down) and extra care in detail on cleaning. You only really have to clean the surfaces and get new gaskets to ensure no vacuum leaks, but i went a step further by cleaning everything. If I had everything I needed, then it would have taken me a weekend. If I didnt bother cleaning much, it would have taken me one day. Keep in mind I also waited around a while for my spark plugs, and I had to look for a day or two to find those seals. Chicago only had two dealerships in the entire area who carried them. I ended up taking up a last saturday morning to drive for an hour to a place in the middle of nowhere. My point is, get everything before you get in there. Big time-saver.
Very good advice. Thankyou... you've inspired me to actually open the hood and do something. I'm going to order all the parts.. get them all, check them all, line it all up, and knock it all out. THanks again.
Wow I wonder how much ford would charge to do something near to what you did.
Did the FAQ mention the need to change the injector o rings? Will check.
So far ford has not contacted me so I will call them today about the FAQ.
And for you do it yourselfers
I do not have garage to work on my car.
Guess I will have to work on that.
MercuryMystik-
How many miles on your car at the point of cleaning? (I'll assume it's the first cleaning.)
brian
99 svt
Originally posted by LilRedRocket:
How much time did it take you to do all of this? Start to finish.
First time I did this it took be a good day, probably 6-8 hours total. Now I can do this in about 3 hours. I do this almost every spring now, and everytime I do it I am very happy with the power-return and throttle response I get back after a years worth (about 15-20k for me) of mileage.
It's worth every penny for the parts from BillJ and the time it takes you to do it!
Outstanding pictorial! That will be quite helpful to future CEGers. Especially the before/after shots.
Originally posted by bxd20:
MercuryMystik-
How many miles on your car at the point of cleaning? (I'll assume it's the first cleaning.)
brian
99 svt
I have 83,000 on the clock right now. Yes it was my first cleaning of the manifolds.
Originally posted by TourDeForce:
Outstanding pictorial! That will be quite helpful to future CEGers. Especially the before/after shots.
Thats what I was hoping for, I knew there was a shortage of pictures with alot of things. I owe the members of this site 10x over.
er..how come i can't see any pics
Originally posted by Darren G:
er..how come i can't see any pics
Dammit, I made a new account with fototime, but I guess theres a certain bandwidth limit. Ill move the pictures to a new host by tomorrow. Sorry guys.
Ford does not seem serious about listing out how much this FAQ would cost to perform. All they have mentioned to me so far are the techs that they offer because it is simple for them to implement some thing all ready within their database of jobs to perform. So replacing the manifold seals cost 324 labor + 65 parts. for 199 not 119 they offer an emissions tech that keeps the parts together while chemicals clean the surfaces.
Guess I will have to go with their well defined service techs
just got off the phone with the service writer and confirmed that they only perform jobs that relate to well established ford tecs. I wonder if they are reading this as I communicate with them (if so hello)
So I need to have both jobs done. but if one removes the lim/uim are not the TB and injectors exposed and so can be cleaned as well?
199 + 324 + 65 = 588
Originally posted by contour_phoenix_when:
just got off the phone with the service writer and confirmed that they only perform jobs that relate to well established ford tecs. I wonder if they are reading this as I communicate with them (if so hello)
So I need to have both jobs done. but if one removes the lim/uim are not the TB and injectors exposed and so can be cleaned as well?
199 + 324 + 65 = 588
Yes, you can see them in the pictures I posted. Right now they are gone because of problems with fototime, but I intend to have the pictures back up tonight.
Alright the pictures should be visible now. I guess I didnt activate the account yet, and the pictures werent working once I logged off for the first time. enjoy!
199 + 324 + 65 = 588
Damn, dude, if you want to drive from Phoenix to St. Louis I'll HELP you do the job for half that much.
Car is at ford shop and the only think that they would do is give me an $85 service for pulling the CEL code. Otherwise they will check first to see if the TB, EGR, LIM, UIM needs to be cleaned because they tell me that they have worked on other cars before where the manifold was cleaned and yet the car was having other problems.
well they pulled the cel codes, 172, 173, 176, 177, 542, 543, 111, and 110. They want to change the O2 sensors, clean the injectors and TB change the Spark plugs, flush the coolent, change manifold gasket and they feel the tranny is not shifting all that well. Total cost 1700.
Bet you guys did not know that the CEG FAQ manifold rebuild would cost so much being done by FORD?
That's a bit of money for what they're doing (probably can't get it done much cheaper elsewhere though).
Can you clean the injectors out yourself with Carb/TB cleaner?
Originally posted by 99MystiqueATX:
Can you clean the injectors out yourself with Carb/TB cleaner?
yes
Sweet. If the weather here ever warms up and I have time to work on the car, i'll get this gas leak fixed. I've got all the parts ready to go.
I was gonna do it last weekend, but my dad said it wouldn't be warm enough. So I waited and now its 26 outside and there's about an inch of snow on the ground
Total cost 1700
For that much I'd almost be tempted to fly out to New York and do it for you...and I'd only charge $1,000.
Is there a reason you're not willing to try this yourself? $1,700 would buy a heck of a lot of nice tools to work on your car with.
or 1700 could get you a decent 3L swap.
I'll do it for $1700...
Heck, i'd be willing to do it for less than half that.
I do not have a garage or space to work on the car
Actuallty I think that I can put aside 400 a month for four months to pay for this job
The issue is that the blue oval shop told me that the car is not shifting very well and so why do all of this work when you may have tranny issues in the future.
and do not forget that this car is only worth maybe 2k if I were to sell it.
If it were totaled in an accident I would not get that much more for it.
Now if my point of view was to spend money to make this car a real performer then spending the money would not be an issue.
So what kind of tour can I get for 6K? One with all these problems.
So looks like it is time to drive it to the ground performing only routine maintenance or maybe not.
I have not yet decided.
Um THEY feel the trany is not shifting well?!!! WTH? Kid you're getting hosed big time!
yea I kind of feel that they might be trying to convince me to buy a now car. You know tell him that his car needs thousands of dollars of work and he will make the buy new car decision or they are just covering all grounds notifying me of all problems.
boy I do feel wet.
So you really want to set 400 bucks aside for a few months until you have 1600 dollars, instead of doing the job yourself outside (when it gets warm) and have no car for 2 or 3 days (instead of weeks with them), and spending at the most 250 dollars (for UIM/LIM/TB/IAC/EGR/etc cleaning/gasket swap including spark plug swap while down there and other necessities)?????
Im sorry, but if I ever meet you, im going to slap you.
Edit: And yes, they are trying to rip you off so bad that you get a new car. If they find somebody willing to pay 1600 dollars for this kind of job, and is kind of believing that the transmission needs to be done too, they know they can talk them into anything. Find a different dealer and get a different quote, or get your hands dirty and save same major money.
I just can't see anyone getting ripped off for $1,700 like this, especially since the work isn't all that difficult.
If you buy the parts (Sentury Lincoln-Mercury - look in the CEG website for contact info) and are willing to spend a few days away from home bring your car and parts and drive out to St. Louis and I will help you do the work for free in my heated garage.
Took my car in for inspection and was told that it failed for the CO2 output had doubled.
So I had the O2 sensors replaced and passed the inspection.
the sensors cost 121 each very expensive. I thought they cost 61 bucks upstream
the car runs much better and so far haven't gotton any check engine lights.
the sensors cost 121 each very expensive. I thought they cost 61 bucks upstream
They probably would have if you'd bought them through the CEG parts guys and didn't mind waiting a few days.
Originally posted by RoadiJeff:
the sensors cost 121 each very expensive. I thought they cost 61 bucks upstream
They probably would have if you'd bought them through the CEG parts guys and didn't mind waiting a few days.
Yup, you got bent over!
-Lance