How long does synthetic oil last?

Originally posted by lithium398:

Originally posted by Marky:
Do a little reading.

FRAM.

I never understood why? I am running mobil 1 synthetic with a fram filter... no problems here.

Poor filtration, it's been discussed here. I read a report comparing oil filters Fram was at or near the bottom of the list. I use K&N, expensive and worth every penny IMHO.

Fram is made of an inferior filtering material (I think it was once found to be newspaper in one Fram filter). The motorcraft filter is much better, and something like a k&n filter being even better. Why use superior oil with an inferior filter?

Originally posted by lithium398:

Originally posted by Marky:
Do a little reading.

FRAM.

I never understood why? I am running mobil 1 synthetic with a fram filter... no problems here.

Here's what you're looking for:

http://minimopar.net/oilfilters.html

The Motorcraft...at about the same price..is a much better filter. And it now comes with a synthetic anti-flowback valve...sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeet.....

Damnit. I didn't know that FRAM oil filters sucked. I guess it is too late to do anything about that mistake until it is time to change the oil again.

I use Mobil one and also K&N filter but I still change my oil every 3,000.

Originally posted by tttc:
I use Mobil one and also K&N filter but I still change my oil every 3,000.

Same here.

Well except I change my oil every 4 months. Before winter, after winter and once in the summer. (roughly every 3-4k miles)

Do you have any other information about good filters besides a webpage that was last updated in 1999? That was 4 years ago.

Here's something a little more recent...

http://www.shoclub.com/lubrication-oil/lubrication-oilpart6.htm

Originally posted by bullion:
Damnit. I didn't know that FRAM oil filters sucked. I guess it is too late to do anything about that mistake until it is time to change the oil again.

Not really, just unscrew the filter and put on a motorcraft. THen add 1/2 quart of oil. You will only have a little spillage.
Easy.

In the past on other cars that recommend 5K-7K mile oil changes I would run the oil 6K miles but change the filter once at 3000 by itself and then again when the oil was changed.

The Fram tough gaurd is a very good filter, only drawback is the paper end cap which really isn't that big a deal. It has one off the best filtrations (98% SPE, syntetic glass media) out there and is very reasonably priced.

"FRAM® Tough Guard�?� filter with the SureGrip® feature

If you're doing a fair amount of off-roading or tow a trailer frequently you need to pay special attention to your engine's cleanliness and use products formulated for these tough driving conditions.

FRAM® Tough Guard�?� filter protects your engine when operating in such tough conditions as:
Extreme hot or cold
Stop-and-go traffic
Unusually dirty roads
Heavy loads and towing

How Does it Work?
The FRAM® Tough Guard�?� oil filter features a number of advanced characteristics including:

1. Screen-over by-pass valve: Provides back-up filtration for the times when the filter might become clogged in extremely dusty or dirty conditions or when oil flows through the by-pass valve during cold start-ups. The screen provides added protection and insurance against larger, problematic particles of dirt until you change your filter!

2. Synthetic glass and cellulose media: The most advanced feature is the filter media which is a combination of synthetic glass and cellulose uniquely formulated for top-rated efficiency for the life of the filter. Tough Guard filter has even more synthetic glass and cellulose than FRAM® Extra Guard® filter for an even greater life and efficiency with an SPE of 98%.

3. Silicone anti-drainback valve: This design allows the filter to retain oil when your vehicle is turned off so your engine benefits from a filter full of oil at startup. Constructed of silicone, the gasket remains flexible and continues to perform even in extreme heat.

4. PTFE-coated exterior gasket: Reduces friction making it easier when removing the filter. "

The regular orange fram (extra gaurd) is the one that sucked in the comparisons. And don't waste money on the ddouble gaurd as it's a normal filter with snaake oil PTFE in it.

Is is really that big of a deal that I used a Fram extra guard (model# PH2) oil filter this one time? I mean, I know for next time to use a K & N, but will the Fram filter that I got do an okay job till the next oil change?

I think you'll be ok, just dont let it happen again!

If it says FRAM it is a POS oil filter: tough guard, extra guard, or otherwise.

There are FAR better choices out there. Hell the stock Motorcraft is light years better then most all available options (including ANY FRAM!)

'nuff said.

Originally posted by DemonSVT:
'nuff said.

You sure?

Originally posted by ScottK:
The Fram tough gaurd is a very good filter, only drawback is the paper end cap which really isn't that big a deal. It has one off the best filtrations (98% SPE, syntetic glass media) out there and is very reasonably priced.

"FRAM® Tough Guard™ filter with the SureGrip® feature

If you're doing a fair amount of off-roading or tow a trailer frequently you need to pay special attention to your engine's cleanliness and use products formulated for these tough driving conditions.

FRAM® Tough Guard™ filter protects your engine when operating in such tough conditions as:
Extreme hot or cold
Stop-and-go traffic
Unusually dirty roads
Heavy loads and towing

How Does it Work?
The FRAM® Tough Guard™ oil filter features a number of advanced characteristics including:

1. Screen-over by-pass valve: Provides back-up filtration for the times when the filter might become clogged in extremely dusty or dirty conditions or when oil flows through the by-pass valve during cold start-ups. The screen provides added protection and insurance against larger, problematic particles of dirt until you change your filter!

2. Synthetic glass and cellulose media: The most advanced feature is the filter media which is a combination of synthetic glass and cellulose uniquely formulated for top-rated efficiency for the life of the filter. Tough Guard filter has even more synthetic glass and cellulose than FRAM® Extra Guard® filter for an even greater life and efficiency with an SPE of 98%.

3. Silicone anti-drainback valve: This design allows the filter to retain oil when your vehicle is turned off so your engine benefits from a filter full of oil at startup. Constructed of silicone, the gasket remains flexible and continues to perform even in extreme heat.

4. PTFE-coated exterior gasket: Reduces friction making it easier when removing the filter. "

The regular orange fram (extra gaurd) is the one that sucked in the comparisons. And don't waste money on the ddouble gaurd as it's a normal filter with snaake oil PTFE in it.

Complete advertisement here.....Frams have been proven to be near the bottle of the barell for high performing engines...and i believe our cars fit into that catagoy....one of my frineds with a 2.5 liter used the tough gaurd filter only to come to realise that filter didn;t filter...casue it had no filtration material in it.....go figure huh....the way he found out was that after 3000 miles his oil was black and watery...he poped open the filter with a dremil and low and behold..nothing inside..Now that may not be a good reason to open up the filter...but it was good enough for him....fram will never see a dime of my money again!!!!!

Roz

I was astonished at how cheap the Motorcraft filter is. Around three bucks at Wal-Mart. It's not often that the right filter is also one of the cheapest. FL820S

fram sucks
fram sucks

Originally posted by Marky:

Originally posted by lithium398:

Originally posted by Marky:
Do a little reading.

FRAM.

I never understood why? I am running mobil 1 synthetic with a fram filter... no problems here.

Poor filtration, it's been discussed here. I read a report comparing oil filters Fram was at or near the bottom of the list. I use K&N, expensive and worth every penny IMHO.

There is new light on the Fram situation. I believe over at the Bobistheoilguy.com website, he got LOWER wear numbers using a Fram filter compared to another.

I'm not saying the K&N is a bad filter, because it is a really good one.

However, I personally, even before the BITOG results, have felt that flow is more important than filtration. (This is why I'm not convinced I should use a Mobil 1 Oil Filter.)

However, for some real life results on a Duratec, take a look at the recent oil analysis for my wife's 2000 Mazda MPV that also uses the 2.5L Ford Duratec engine found in my SVT and many other Contours (but without all the SVT mods of course.)

The following was Mobil 1 5W30 Tri-Synthetic formula (the previous formulation) on a Motorcraft FL820S filter.

http://tlcc2000.dyndns.org/Oil_Analysis/2000-MPV-Oil-Analysis-2003-07-28.jpg

That oil was run a few days shy of 6 months and about 51xx miles.

The oil was still in pretty good shape, but some wear metals were high, likely due to the short trip driving my wife does.

The TBN was still pretty healthy, indicating the oil could still neutralize acids formed in the crankcase from normal combustion byproducts.

There is a guy running a test on Mobil 1 in his Chevy Camaro. I think he has gone 16K miles now, let me see if
I can find the link...

Here you go... http://neptune.spacebears.com/cars/stories/oil-life.html

I don't think I would go that long, but wifeys van gets two changes each year, until recently, so did my SVT, but with the Turbo, that will probably go to three changes.

Ditto for my 94 Geo Prizm. But that will be every 4 months or 8-9K miles. But, I have to qualify that with saying I'll be checking the oil analysis on that car as well.

Here is an analysis for that car, also on Mobil 1 Tri-Synth. 5W30 and in this case a standard Purolator filter. I changed the filter to a PureONE and have run the oil another 3xxx miles in the past 6 weeks.

At this rate, I'll probably change it early to mid October and get a sample then.

http://tlcc2000.dyndns.org/Oil_Analysis/1994-Prizm-Oil-Analysis-2003-07-28.jpg

I probably won't get samples every oil change, but will probably do each car at least once a year to see if any danger looms in the horizon.

The samples are about $30 each with a TBN. If you don't need the TBN, then they are about $20 each.

HTH,

TB

I use Amsoil synthetic 5W-30 with the SDF-11 filter they recommend, change it twice a year minimum, usually every 3000miles. There's no problem with cold start up out here, the coldest it gets is 40 or 50 at the worst. I only drive her 5000-6000 miles a year. . .

I should get this next oil batch analyzed, how do you do that exactly?

Suneil

You could call the lab or visit their website. I think that information is in my two samples.

They will send you what you need to mail the sample to them.

On the MPV, I caught the sample as I drained the oil for the change. On the Geo, I got a NEW oil drain pan, and captured a sample as it drained, and then put the oil back in, adding some new Mobil 1 to replentish what was spilled and captured in the sample.

You can also buy a vampire pump and take samples from the dipstick tube if you want to sample without draining the oil. They suggest you sample warm/hot engine oil for the most accurate results. Everything in there should be pretty evenly mixed after the engine is hot. If you take a cold sample, there could be "items" in the oil that settle out to the bottom, etc.

HTH,

TB

Originally posted by Roz 1999 SVT-C:

Originally posted by ScottK:
The Fram tough gaurd is a very good filter, only drawback is the paper end cap which really isn't that big a deal. It has one off the best filtrations (98% SPE, syntetic glass media) out there and is very reasonably priced.

"FRAM® Tough Guard™ filter with the SureGrip® feature

If you're doing a fair amount of off-roading or tow a trailer frequently you need to pay special attention to your engine's cleanliness and use products formulated for these tough driving conditions.

FRAM® Tough Guard™ filter protects your engine when operating in such tough conditions as:
Extreme hot or cold
Stop-and-go traffic
Unusually dirty roads
Heavy loads and towing

How Does it Work?
The FRAM® Tough Guard™ oil filter features a number of advanced characteristics including:

1. Screen-over by-pass valve: Provides back-up filtration for the times when the filter might become clogged in extremely dusty or dirty conditions or when oil flows through the by-pass valve during cold start-ups. The screen provides added protection and insurance against larger, problematic particles of dirt until you change your filter!

2. Synthetic glass and cellulose media: The most advanced feature is the filter media which is a combination of synthetic glass and cellulose uniquely formulated for top-rated efficiency for the life of the filter. Tough Guard filter has even more synthetic glass and cellulose than FRAM® Extra Guard® filter for an even greater life and efficiency with an SPE of 98%.

3. Silicone anti-drainback valve: This design allows the filter to retain oil when your vehicle is turned off so your engine benefits from a filter full of oil at startup. Constructed of silicone, the gasket remains flexible and continues to perform even in extreme heat.

4. PTFE-coated exterior gasket: Reduces friction making it easier when removing the filter. "

The regular orange fram (extra gaurd) is the one that sucked in the comparisons. And don't waste money on the ddouble gaurd as it's a normal filter with snaake oil PTFE in it.

Complete advertisement here.....Frams have been proven to be near the bottle of the barell for high performing engines...and i believe our cars fit into that catagoy....one of my frineds with a 2.5 liter used the tough gaurd filter only to come to realise that filter didn;t filter...casue it had no filtration material in it.....go figure huh....the way he found out was that after 3000 miles his oil was black and watery...he poped open the filter with a dremil and low and behold..nothing inside..Now that may not be a good reason to open up the filter...but it was good enough for him....fram will never see a dime of my money again!!!!!

Roz

Well then how about this:

"Fram Tough Guard
Even with all the problems of the other Fram filters, this one is not too bad. It has a heavier filter element with more surface area, a silicone anti-drainback valve, the cheap pressure relief valve, but with a clever integral screen to keep out large particles, and enough inlet holes for good flow. The only other drawback to this filter is that it is capped on each end with cardboard instead of metal. Looking in through the center outlet does not reveal any paper end caps, but they are there. "

from the original minimopar.net study. It has filtration as good as Mobil1 for 1/3 the price.

Demon - what is the motorcraft SPE and is it just a very dense paper (ie non-synthetic media) filter like the purolator?

I'll answer my own question: if the motorcraft really has a pure one filter cartridge it ranks a 99.7 SPE which is downright awesome, and accordding to the sho site it has a damn good flow rate (better than Mobil1 even).

I'm switching back to motorcraft!!!

Yep. That is all I have ever used on my fords since 95 when I got my first one.
FL-820 and FL-820s w/ oil cooler.

through my research, K&N is the same as NAPA Gold filter. i use royal purple with a napa gold, seems to work damn nice, considering ive been using it for almost a year now. i think the KN is just a little more expencive than the GOLD filter, but it does the same job.

Just hit 3,000 miles tonight... time for an oil change. So I guess its mobil 1 oil again, but this time with motorcraft filter.

I'm an independent AMSOIL dealer and can save you some money as well as protect your car and enhance its performance. My web site is still under construction but you are welcome to visit at LBC Performance Motorsports Group or go directly to the AMSOIL store at AMSOIL Store .

AMSOIL has three types of pure synthetic oil for the Duratec V6 and it really depends on the number of miles you drive per year and how comfortable you fee with "extended" oil drain intervals.

The first is the 7500 series and can be purchased in either 5w-30 or 10w-30 for the Duratec.. This will operate for 6 months or 7500 miles, which every comes first. I recommend the AMSOIL filer also, as it is more rugged and has a better filter material than any of the others I know of.

The second fluid is also a 5w-30 or 10w-30 but is good for 24,000 miles or 12 months..etc. etc.. Note that the filters still are recommend for changing every 6 months or 12,000 miles..

Now the one I use in my track preparied Cougar..

I run the 0w-30 which is a 36,000 mile or 12 month synthetic.. The improvement in preformance and increase in gas milage has been surprising..

You can purchase these at the AMSOIL Store web site and directly through me and receive a 10% discount on your oil purchase.. Email me directly for information .. remember that this discount is not available on the AMSOIL Store web site..

Other grades of oil are available such as the 10w-40 which is made for the turbo and sc cars or 20W-50 for the profesional track cars...

Any questions ?? just email me at Mr_Froge@lbcperformance.com

Originally posted by bullion:
I just changed the oil in my 98' CSVT. I used Mobil 1 fully synthetic oil with a Fram oil filter. About how many miles can I drive before it should be changed again? Thanks

Depends on the synlube.

I've been running Amsoil 100% synth in every car (both turbo and normally-aspirated) I've owned for the past 16 years. Amsoil is rated for extended drain intervals. In the 12 years I had my Merkur XR4Ti (a turbo car with a cast-iron block, cast-iron head and insane underhood temps), I usually dumped the Amsoil after 6000 mi and once went as far as 9000 mi with no adverse affects. In my CSVT, I've been dumping the oil after 15,000 mi. And, judging from the color, consistency and texture of the Amsoil at 15K, I suspect that, by dumping it at 15K, I may be wasting perfectly good oil. Next time, I'm sending it to a lab for analysis.

BACKGROUND: Despite 30 years of API-standard test data that overwhelmingly substantiate Amsoil's first-to-market and first-to-patent primacy across the entire spectrum of synlube/grease apps, most (but not all) of the CEG crew seem to have a collective blind-spot towards Amsoil. Whether this bias is merely due to the culture of the CEG forum or is somehow driven by ExxonMobil shills is way beyond my ability to pinpoint.

Basically, all I need to know is what I've learned from running Amsoil for 16 years: Despite their retro "Mom & Pop" mindset and rinky-dink MLM marketing and distribution channels, when it comes to delivering the goods, Amsoil is, and always has been, the big dog on the synlube porch.

I don't think there's a blind spot. I think there is a price/availability difference though that makes many of us use Mobil1.

Originally posted by Kremithefrog:
I don't think there's a blind spot. I think there is a price/availability difference though that makes many of us use Mobil1.

Amsoil is about $4/quart, is rated for and, as mentioned, holds up under extended drain -- 15K mi in my CSVT.

Just do the math re: cost per-quart vs cost per-mile, and then factor-in the amply-documented ability of Amsoil synlubes (engine oil and ATF in our case) to extend the working-life of the powertrain by 3X its factory-rated expectancy as compared to operation with conventional lubes ... Do that and you'll see a switchover to Amsoil is a no/low risk no-brainer for any properly-maintained vehicle with as much as 100,000 miles on the clock.

Availability is as close as www.amsoil.com or maybe, more locally, in your yellow pages or via www.switchboard.com

Not available locally here, so add in shipping cost. Also add in the fact that no matter what they say or what an analysis says, I'm not gonna leave my oil in for 15k miles. There was a site comparing what is in each oil, and I believe they showed something in Amsoil that is added that helps get it to last so long, but the thing that is added can also end up staying in your engine or something. And of course there's the amsoil web site that "proves" it being better than all other oils.

Also mobil1 makes ATF fluid, which I use. And when wal-mart has the 5qt jugs, it's only $3.78 per quart of mobil1, and it's right there at the store, so no shipping cost. I guess if you feel safe with keeping the oil in the car for 15k miles, then it's worth it, but most people aren't into that.

Originally posted by Kremithefrog:
Not available locally here, so add in shipping cost. Also add in the fact that no matter what they say or what an analysis says, I'm not gonna leave my oil in for 15k miles. There was a site comparing what is in each oil, and I believe they showed something in Amsoil that is added that helps get it to last so long, but the thing that is added can also end up staying in your engine or something. And of course there's the amsoil web site that "proves" it being better than all other oils. Also mobil1 makes ATF fluid, which I use. And when wal-mart has the 5qt jugs, it's only $3.78 per quart of mobil1, and it's right there at the store, so no shipping cost. I guess if you feel safe with keeping the oil in the car for 15k miles, then it's worth it, but most people aren't into that.

Well, KTF, I'm no apostle for Amsoil. All of my posts regarding Amsoil (past and present) have been intended to share my 16 year's worth of experience with Amsoil synlubes. Nothing more; nothing less.

My car is my car; your car is your car. My car will run Amsoil for the foreseeable future. Whatever your car runs is your call.

I wasn't dogging on you for using amsoil, just giving all the possible reasons many of the people on here prefer mobil1 instead.

If you are changing Mobil 1 at 3K miles, you are wasting your money.
IIRC, a R&T technical article stated that BMW determined that synthetic oils can go over 10K drain interval without any problems.
I change mine about every 6 to 7K, along with a Motorcraft filter.
On the flip side, I know many people who have cars still going strong with over 200K and have NEVER used synthetic oil, only conventional!

Any of you want some discount prices on Amsoil, I've become a preferred customer, so make my discount work for you!!

PM me for details. I don't do extended intervals, but with the discount now, it's the same price for me as Mobil 1. . .if any of you are interested, let me know, and I can get some prices for y'all. . .

Suneil

I will stand behind AMSOIL as well as I'm a fervent user of it. I believe in it more than any other oil out there and labatory tests have backed it's claims. There 0w30 oil is my choice and has shown a increase in engine performance and gas mileage no doubt over the standard 5w30 Synthetics..

Mobil 1 would be my second choice though but if you can obtain Amsoil it's well worth the extra few bucks a quart! Oil change Intervals for me are twice a year but I average about 15,000 miles a year so about 7500 change intervals though I know the oil can go longer, I change it 2wice a year anyway. Did I mention my driving habits are probably at the top of the list of all CEG drivers on this Forum, well at least when the SVT is running, I think some of you know what I'm talking about

I'm curious, for those who run extended drain intervals with any oil (say over 5k miles) - what does your new oil look like say 3 days or so after the oil change? Does it look exactly like it came out of the bottle or does it darken up immediately?

My main concern with extending drain intervals is that even if the lubricating properties of the oil are fine that it may saturate with "gunk" and start letting conaminants fall out of solution and form sludge deposits. Quick darkening of new oil is an indicator that the old oil could no longer hold all the crap in solution, leaving the new oil to pick it all up. I know that regular 3000 mile changes with run of the mill mobil leaves my oil looking brand new for weeks after the oil change.

Originally posted by ScottK:
I'm curious, for those who run extended drain intervals with any oil (say over 5k miles) - what does your new oil look like say 3 days or so after the oil change? Does it look exactly like it came out of the bottle or does it darken up immediately?

My main concern with extending drain intervals is that even if the lubricating properties of the oil are fine that it may saturate with "gunk" and start letting conaminants fall out of solution and form sludge deposits. Quick darkening of new oil is an indicator that the old oil could no longer hold all the crap in solution, leaving the new oil to pick it all up. I know that regular 3000 mile changes with run of the mill mobil leaves my oil looking brand new for weeks after the oil change.

I use Mobil 1 every 5k now because its so much easier and cheaper to find, but in the past I used Amsoil series 2000 0w30 and did extended drain intervals of 10k with only a filter change at 5k. My oil looked perfect the entire time, I had even sent it in for analysis once after my normal 10k and it was clean enough for another 5k easily. In my old 914 I would run 20w50 for 12k with no problems and that car was really hard on the oil.

I change my mobil1 usually at ~3500 miles, but may push it a little further this time since all the old gunk should be well out by now (didn't get to start using mobil1 till about ~81k miles and have about 94k miles now) and that I may be a little strapped for cash for a little while as far as car maintenance goes. When I drain it, it always looks like the day I put it in, so I'm not worried, but just hope the motorcraft filter is up to it.

My oil, drained at 6-7K miles is dark at the end of that period. It takes probably about 1K to turn dark.
About 15 years ago I was using Mobil 1 in my EXP (remember those?) with the same drain intervals. I had to change the valve cover gasket at 90K. The entire valve train was very clean as well as the underside of the valve cover. Since that oil was a couple of generations behind the current Mobil 1, I have more confidence now with extended drains than before.
Again, I know many people who have gotten over 200K on the cars using only conventional oil. My father had a old Ford Grenada with 200K and never used synthetics. The car ran well before it got wrecked!
Lastly, conventional oil has been improved vastly in the past ten years as refining processes have improved.

Originally posted by Kremithefrog:
I wasn't dogging on you for using amsoil, just giving all the possible reasons many of the people on here prefer mobil1 instead.

No problem, KTF. Didn't take it that way.

Basically, all I meant was, "To each his/her own". Because I'm allergic to car payents and keep my cars for a long time -- 10 years or more -- Amsoil always has been the Big Gun in my preventative maintenence arsenal. To me, the extra effort needed to get it in some areas (even when shipping costs have to be factored in) is amply cost-justified by the lack of ANY significant wear in the components the Amsoil synlubes protect.

Originally posted by PXRacing:
I will stand behind AMSOIL as well as I'm a fervent user of it. I believe in it more than any other oil out there and labatory tests have backed it's claims. There 0w30 oil is my choice and has shown a increase in engine performance and gas mileage no doubt over the standard 5w30 Synthetics..

Mobil 1 would be my second choice though but if you can obtain Amsoil it's well worth the extra few bucks a quart! Oil change Intervals for me are twice a year but I average about 15,000 miles a year so about 7500 change intervals though I know the oil can go longer, I change it 2wice a year anyway. Did I mention my driving habits are probably at the top of the list of all CEG drivers on this Forum, well at least when the SVT is running, I think some of you know what I'm talking about

As you can tell from my earlier comments, I'm in complete agreement with your assessment of Amsoil.

However, when you next dump your Amsoil at 7500 mi, you may want to send a sample of that oil to a good lab for analysis. The results WILL suprise you.

I always use Cleveland Tech. They deliver very good service and comprehensive -- yet comprehensible -- reports at a very reasonable cost:

Cleveland Technical Center
18419 Euclid Avenue
Cleveland, OH 44112-1016 Ph. 800-726-5401

For more oil analysis info and options, go to

http://www.oilanalysis.com/

Originally posted by ScottK:
I'm curious, for those who run extended drain intervals with any oil (say over 5k miles) - what does your new oil look like say 3 days or so after the oil change? Does it look exactly like it came out of the bottle or does it darken up immediately?

My main concern with extending drain intervals is that even if the lubricating properties of the oil are fine that it may saturate with "gunk" and start letting conaminants fall out of solution and form sludge deposits. Quick darkening of new oil is an indicator that the old oil could no longer hold all the crap in solution, leaving the new oil to pick it all up. I know that regular 3000 mile changes with run of the mill mobil leaves my oil looking brand new for weeks after the oil change.

ANY oil, synth or dino, will darken somewhat after the first few (200-1000) miles in-service. It's normal ... And not a primary concern, assuming the old oil was completely drained and a new filter is in-place.

The Amsoil 5w-30 I run in my 98 CSVT goes 15K mi with no sweat. Because I have good reason to believe that, even at 15K, I'm dumping perfectly good engine oil, the next change, I'm sending a sample to Cleveland Tech for a total workup.
___________________________________________________

Cleveland Technical Center
18419 Euclid Avenue
Cleveland, OH 44112-1016 Ph. 800-726-5401
____________________________________________________

Three points:

> All engine oils will darken with use. The best dino oil will darken much deeper and faster than the best synth oil. This is because the best dino oil volatilizes much faster and, in every other performance criterion, also is grossly inferior to the best synth oil.

> Make certain you're looking at the "circulating oil", ie, the oil that adheres to the dipstick no more than 5-10 minutes after engine shut-down .

Checking your oil after the car has been sitting on a level surface for a longer period of time will give you the most accurate reading of the oil level -- and the scariest picture of you oil's appearance. This is because the oil now on the dipstick is what's called "pan oil", ie, the 5%, lowest-of-the-low layer of oil in the pan where all the really skanky stuff settles to when the engine has been shut down for a while. The longer the shutdown, the skanky-er the pan oil becomes

> It's not about color. It's about clarity . Assuming you never greatly-exceed the recomended change interval for the oil you're using, if the circulating oil on the dipstick has the clear, dark brown color of "black" coffee, it's probably good to go. If its color looks more like Nestle's Chocolate syrup, change ASAP. And if it has the color of -- and sort of smells like -- asphalt, it's probably a good time to start writing the obitutary for your car that you'll soon be posting here.

Originally posted by DanB:

... Lastly, conventional oil has been improved vastly in the past ten years as refining processes have improved.

... No doubt motivated in no small way by the growing increase in market-pressure from synthetics during that same period of time.

Originally posted by Drumbo:

Originally posted by DanB:

... Lastly, conventional oil has been improved vastly in the past ten years as refining processes have improved.

... No doubt motivated in no small way by the growing increase in market-pressure from synthetics during that same period of time.

I think the main driver for the SL spec was CAFE & emmisions, the new oil's biggest area of improvemnt can be seen in how it better maintains fuel efficency over the life of the oil.

From chevron on SL spec:
"Most notable are the improvements in fuel economy, oil consumption/emissions system protection, oxidation control and high temperature piston deposits. "

and from mobil:
"The latest industry specifications for motor oils, which became official July 1, 2001, are ILSAC (international Lubricant Standardization and Approval Committee) GF3 and API (American Petroleum Institute) SL. The biggest changes in the new specifications relate to the measurement of high-temperature oxidation, deposit control, oil consumption and fuel economy improvements. If you would like more information, go to the API website at www.api.org."

I was checking out the api site, and noticed amsoil only has API certification of the following oils:

http://eolcs.api.org/DisplayLicenseInfo.asp?LicenseNo=0995

AMSOIL PCO 15W-40 CI-4/SL
AMSOIL XL-7500 10W-30 SL*
AMSOIL XL-7500 10W-40 SL
AMSOIL XL-7500 5W-20 SL*
AMSOIL XL-7500 5W-30 SL*
* energy conserving

Why do so few of there oils carry API certifications?

For comparison, all of mobils oils are certified:

MOBIL 1 0W-20 SL/CF*
MOBIL 1 0W-30 SL/CF*
MOBIL 1 0W-40 SL/CF*
MOBIL 1 10W-30 SL/CF*
MOBIL 1 15W-50 SL/CF
MOBIL 1 5W-30 SL/CF*
MOBIL DELVAC 1 5W-40 CF,CF-4,CG-4,CH-4,CI-4/SL
MOBIL DELVAC 1300 SUPER 10W-30 CF,CF-4,CG-4,CH-4,CI-4/SJ
MOBIL DELVAC 1300 SUPER 10W-30 CF,CF-4,CG-4,CH-4,CI-4/SL
MOBIL DELVAC 1300 SUPER 15W-40 CF,CF-4,CG-4,CH-4,CI-4/SL
MOBIL DELVAC 1310 10W CF
MOBIL DELVAC 1330 30 CF
MOBIL DELVAC 1340 40 CF
MOBIL DELVAC 1350 50 CF
MOBIL DELVAC 1630 30 CF
MOBIL DELVAC 1640 40 CF
MOBIL DELVAC 1650 50 CF
MOBIL DRIVE CLEAN 10W-30 SL*
MOBIL DRIVE CLEAN 10W-40 SL
MOBIL DRIVE CLEAN 20W-50 SL
MOBIL DRIVE CLEAN 5W-20 SL*
MOBIL DRIVE CLEAN 5W-30 SL*
MOBIL DRIVE CLEAN BLEND 10W-30 SL/CF*
MOBIL DRIVE CLEAN BLEND 5W-30 SL/CF*
MOBIL DRIVE CLEAN HD 30 SL
MOBIL DRIVE CLEAN HD 40 SL
MOBIL DRIVE CLEAN PLUS 5W-30 SL/CF*
MOBIL DRIVE CLEAN PLUS HM 10W-30 SL/CF
MOBIL DRIVE CLEAN PLUS HM 10W-40 SL/CF
ESSO UNIFLO 10W-30 SL*
ESSO UNIFLO 10W-40 SL*
EXXON XD-3 10W-30 CF,CF-4,CG-4,CH-4,CI-4/SL
EXXON XD-3 15W-40 CF,CF-4,CG-4,CH-4,CI-4/SL
EXXON XD-3 20 CF
EXXON XD-3 30 CF,CF-2
EXXON XD-3 40 CF,CF-2
EXXON XD-3 50 CF,CF-2
EXXON XD-3 ELITE 15W-40 CF,CF-4,CG-4,CH-4,CI-4/SL
EXXON XD-3 EXTRA 15W-40 CF,CF-4,CG-4,CH-4,CI-4/SL
SUPERFLO 10W-30 SL*
SUPERFLO 10W-40 SL*
SUPERFLO 20W-50 SL
SUPERFLO 30 SL
SUPERFLO 40 SL
SUPERFLO 5W-20 SL*
SUPERFLO 5W-30 SL*

Originally posted by Drumbo:

Originally posted by bullion:
I just changed the oil in my 98' CSVT. I used Mobil 1 fully synthetic oil with a Fram oil filter. About how many miles can I drive before it should be changed again? Thanks

Depends on the synlube.

BACKGROUND: Despite 30 years of API-standard test data that overwhelmingly substantiate Amsoil's first-to-market and first-to-patent primacy across the entire spectrum of synlube/grease apps, most (but not all) of the CEG crew seem to have a collective blind-spot towards Amsoil. Whether this bias is merely due to the culture of the CEG forum or is somehow driven by ExxonMobil shills is way beyond my ability to pinpoint.

I've seen this alot, and I'm curious why amsoil is considered the first synthetic oil? Were they just the first to patent it for the general automotive industry?

Mobils synthetic bearing lube came out in the early 60's (putting mobil synthetics 10 years ahead of amsoil???), there big rig diesel syn oil came out in the late 60's and and they've been selling general automotive syn oil since 73. What about amsoil gives them the first to market bragging rights?

Originally posted by ScottK:

Originally posted by Drumbo:

Originally posted by bullion:
I just changed the oil in my 98' CSVT. I used Mobil 1 fully synthetic oil with a Fram oil filter. About how many miles can I drive before it should be changed again? Thanks

Depends on the synlube.

BACKGROUND: Despite 30 years of API-standard test data that overwhelmingly substantiate Amsoil's first-to-market and first-to-patent primacy across the entire spectrum of synlube/grease apps, most (but not all) of the CEG crew seem to have a collective blind-spot towards Amsoil. Whether this bias is merely due to the culture of the CEG forum or is somehow driven by ExxonMobil shills is way beyond my ability to pinpoint.

I've seen this alot, and I'm curious why amsoil is considered the first synthetic oil? Were they just the first to patent it for the general automotive industry?

Mobils synthetic bearing lube came out in the early 60's (putting mobil synthetics 10 years ahead of amsoil???), there big rig diesel syn oil came out in the late 60's and and they've been selling general automotive syn oil since 73. What about amsoil gives them the first to market bragging rights?

Were they just the first to patent it for the general automotive industry?

Yes, they were "just the first". Read and learn ...

Amsoil was founded by Al Amatuzio, a former USAF fighter-jock/pilot/trainer ... whatever.

The point is: While flying for the USAF, Amatuzio got the brilliant idea that the synthetic lubes used by the USAF to keep high-altitude aircraft from seizing-up under extreme cold conditions also could have earth-bound, automotive and other mechanical applications. That was 30 years ago.

He was soooo right. Amsoil, the company he started 30 years ago, has a 15-year jump on the general synlube market -- during which time Amsoil's R&D Dept came up with and patented essentially all the synlube fundamentals that ExxonMobil and a host of other synlube wannabes would now cut off their <insert sacrificial reproductive organ here> to own.

As I've said, as long as Amsoil remains true to their mission, Amsoil lubes are the ONLY lubes my car(s) will see for the foreseeable future. Done. Period. Case closed.

Your statements above are ludicrous!

The last I checked, Amsoil does NOT make any of their base lube stocks at all and buy these from OTHER companies. I don't beleive they manufacture ANY of the motor oil components!
They are only a blender!
What is their R&D dept doing? Researching other companies' products? You could never compare the R&D budget of tiny Amsoil with a huge, technically advanced mega-conglomerate of ExxonMobil!
If Amsoil was so good, you would see a lot more racing teams (I.E., Formula 1, IRL, NASCAR, etc.) using it and not Mobil 1!
I am not condemning their products, which are probably good, buy to say they are the best is not credible. Also, who wants to track down a rep to but a few quarts when one can get Mobil 1, Pennzoil, or others at their local Walmart, Kmart and a thousand other places?

Originally posted by DanB:
Your statements above are ludicrous!

The last I checked, Amsoil does NOT make any of their base lube stocks at all and buy these from OTHER companies. I don't beleive they manufacture ANY of the motor oil components!
They are only a blender!
What is their R&D dept doing? Researching other companies' products? You could never compare the R&D budget of tiny Amsoil with a huge, technically advanced mega-conglomerate of ExxonMobil!
If Amsoil was so good, you would see a lot more racing teams (I.E., Formula 1, IRL, NASCAR, etc.) using it and not Mobil 1!
I am not condemning their products, which are probably good, buy to say they are the best is not credible. Also, who wants to track down a rep to but a few quarts when one can get Mobil 1, Pennzoil, or others at their local Walmart, Kmart and a thousand other places?

"... who wants to track down a rep to but a few quarts when one can get Mobil 1, Pennzoil, or others at their local Walmart, Kmart and a thousand other places?"

I do.

Originally posted by Drumbo:

Originally posted by DanB:
Your statements above are ludicrous!

The last I checked, Amsoil does NOT make any of their base lube stocks at all and buy these from OTHER companies. I don't beleive they manufacture ANY of the motor oil components!
They are only a blender!
What is their R&D dept doing? Researching other companies' products? You could never compare the R&D budget of tiny Amsoil with a huge, technically advanced mega-conglomerate of ExxonMobil!
If Amsoil was so good, you would see a lot more racing teams (I.E., Formula 1, IRL, NASCAR, etc.) using it and not Mobil 1!
I am not condemning their products, which are probably good, buy to say they are the best is not credible. Also, who wants to track down a rep to but a few quarts when one can get Mobil 1, Pennzoil, or others at their local Walmart, Kmart and a thousand other places?

"... who wants to track down a rep to but a few quarts when one can get Mobil 1, Pennzoil, or others at their local Walmart, Kmart and a thousand other places?"

I do.

Me too

Originally posted by Drumbo:

Originally posted by ScottK:

Originally posted by Drumbo:

Originally posted by bullion:
I just changed the oil in my 98' CSVT. I used Mobil 1 fully synthetic oil with a Fram oil filter. About how many miles can I drive before it should be changed again? Thanks

Depends on the synlube.

I've seen this alot, and I'm curious why amsoil is considered the first synthetic oil? Were they just the first to patent it for the general automotive industry?

Mobils synthetic bearing lube came out in the early 60's (putting mobil synthetics 10 years ahead of amsoil???), there big rig diesel syn oil came out in the late 60's and and they've been selling general automotive syn oil since 73. What about amsoil gives them the first to market bragging rights?

Were they just the first to patent it for the general automotive industry?

Yes, they were "just the first". Read and learn ...

Amsoil was founded by Al Amatuzio, a former USAF fighter-jock/pilot/trainer ... whatever.

The point is: While flying for the USAF, Amatuzio got the brilliant idea that the synthetic lubes used by the USAF to keep high-altitude aircraft from seizing-up under extreme cold conditions also could have earth-bound, automotive and other mechanical applications. That was 30 years ago.

He was soooo right. Amsoil, the company he started 30 years ago, has a 15-year jump on the general synlube market -- during which time Amsoil's R&D Dept came up with and patented essentially all the synlube fundamentals that ExxonMobil and a host of other synlube wannabes would now cut off their <insert sacrificial reproductive organ here> to own.

As I've said, as long as Amsoil remains true to their mission, Amsoil lubes are the ONLY lubes my car(s) will see for the foreseeable future. Done. Period. Case closed.

I recognize it may look like I'm trying to bash amsoil - I'm not. I'm just trying to understand how good there company / product is, and so far I haven't seen a lot of proof that there claims are substantiated. I'm also concerned that they use a formula that auto makers claim to be catalyst damaging (hence no api certification) - even if that hasn't been proved out.

I assume it is a good oil, as are all synthetics and even todays non synthetics. I'm just trying to figure out what makes it worth the premium price for a non API certified blend?

As for patents - a quick search of the patent database http://www.uspto.gov/patft/ shows exactly 0 patentss issued to amsoil or Amatuzio since 1975. (Mobil had 700+ patents with the word "oil" in the abstract). I am curious if they really are developing new proprietary oils, why they never patent them?

Originally posted by ScottK:

Originally posted by Drumbo:

Originally posted by ScottK:

Originally posted by Drumbo:

Originally posted by bullion:
I just changed the oil in my 98' CSVT. I used Mobil 1 fully synthetic oil with a Fram oil filter. About how many miles can I drive before it should be changed again? Thanks

Depends on the synlube.

I've seen this alot, and I'm curious why amsoil is considered the first synthetic oil? Were they just the first to patent it for the general automotive industry?

Mobils synthetic bearing lube came out in the early 60's (putting mobil synthetics 10 years ahead of amsoil???), there big rig diesel syn oil came out in the late 60's and and they've been selling general automotive syn oil since 73. What about amsoil gives them the first to market bragging rights?

Were they just the first to patent it for the general automotive industry?

Yes, they were "just the first". Read and learn ...

Amsoil was founded by Al Amatuzio, a former USAF fighter-jock/pilot/trainer ... whatever.

The point is: While flying for the USAF, Amatuzio got the brilliant idea that the synthetic lubes used by the USAF to keep high-altitude aircraft from seizing-up under extreme cold conditions also could have earth-bound, automotive and other mechanical applications. That was 30 years ago.

He was soooo right. Amsoil, the company he started 30 years ago, has a 15-year jump on the general synlube market -- during which time Amsoil's R&D Dept came up with and patented essentially all the synlube fundamentals that ExxonMobil and a host of other synlube wannabes would now cut off their <insert sacrificial reproductive organ here> to own.

As I've said, as long as Amsoil remains true to their mission, Amsoil lubes are the ONLY lubes my car(s) will see for the foreseeable future. Done. Period. Case closed.

I recognize it may look like I'm trying to bash amsoil - I'm not. I'm just trying to understand how good there company / product is, and so far I haven't seen a lot of proof that there claims are substantiated. I'm also concerned that they use a formula that auto makers claim to be catalyst damaging (hence no api certification) - even if that hasn't been proved out.

I assume it is a good oil, as are all synthetics and even todays non synthetics. I'm just trying to figure out what makes it worth the premium price for a non API certified blend?

As for patents - a quick search of the patent database http://www.uspto.gov/patft/ shows exactly 0 patentss issued to amsoil or Amatuzio since 1975. (Mobil had 700+ patents with the word "oil" in the abstract). I am curious if they really are developing new proprietary oils, why they never patent them?

As their label indicates, Amsoil 100% synths are not a "blend" -- they're 100% synthetic.

As their label also indicates, they are -- and always have been -- API certified.

Your research seems to have a few holes. Maybe you should redo it.

BTW -- Would you happen to be a former customer of Tommy Chong?

It's because they used the same oil they've been making for 30 years because it's that good.... Actually I don't know.

Originally posted by Kremithefrog:
It's because they used the same oil they've been making for 30 years because it's that good.... Actually I don't know.

Actually, KTF, year-after-year, Amsoil has continually refined their product line across the board.

Originally posted by Drumbo:

As their label indicates, Amsoil 100% synths are not a "blend" -- they're 100% synthetic.

As their label also indicates, they are -- and always have been -- API certified.

Your research seems to have a few holes. Maybe you should redo it.

BTW -- Would you happen to be a former customer of Tommy Chong?

re blend:

by blend I did not mean conventional / syn blend, but an off the shelf syn. base stock with some amsoil specific additives.

re api -

maybe they should tell the api that all there oil is certified???

http://eolcs.api.org/DisplayLicenseInfo.asp?LicenseNo=0995

AMSOIL is the first 100% sythetic oil to receive the API certificate. The reason that no other AMSOIL products or anyother 100% synthetic have this certification is because of the formulation of their long extended drain interval products. I Quote: "As of July 1, 2002, AMSOIL INC. of Superior, Wisconsin, re-formulated its XL-7500 line of synthetic motor oils to meet API SL/ILSAC GF-3 certification standards with the use of Synthetic Group III base oils.

AMSOIL�??s exclusive additive chemistry and Group III base oil combination provides the quality and protection needed for 7500 mile drain intervals. The new formulation offers motorists improved protection of emissions control systems and extended service life. According to Alan Amatuzio, VP-Manufacturing, �??These API SL/GF-3 oils provide better high temperature deposit control and lower oil consumption than basic petroleum oils.�?�

Included in the AMSOIL XL-7500 motor oil line up is the 5W-20 viscosity grade, enabling oil change professionals to offer a high quality synthetic that meets the warranty requirements of Ford and Honda, the two current companies recommending this viscosity grade. This oil minimizes friction and provides superior wear protection throughout its extended service life of 7500 miles or six months, whichever comes first.

The new oils also cost less than previous XL-7500 products. The rest of the AMSOIL synthetic motor oil line continues to use PAO based oils in their formulations. XL-7500 is available in a full range of package sizes from quarts to drums in today�??s three leading viscosities, 5W-20, 5W-30 and 10W-30."

And a little more info:
Lubes-n-Greases Automotive Editor David McFall, once with the American Petroleum Institute recently tackled the issue of extended drain intervals in his March column, criticizing the standard 3,000-mile oil change and referring to the American motor oil market as "shackled."

"In Europe the average engine oil drain interval for current gasoline-fueled cars is about 10,000 miles," explains McFall. "In the United States, indicates the Automotive Oil Change Association, the average drain interval followed by most drivers is somewhat less than 5,000 miles�??one-half of Europe's.

"Every year in the United States, this too-short drain interval results in the unneeded production of 300 million to 400 million gallons of engine oil; excess consumer expenditures of around $1.5 billion; and tens of millions of unnecessary oil changes."

Not only are these unnecessary oil changes an expense to consumers, explains McFall, but they have an environmental cost as well. "The added environmental cost of having an average 5,000-mile oil drain interval (instead of 10,000 miles, as in Europe) may be nearly 100 million gallons of engine oil being dumped, untreated, into the U.S. environment annually."

McFall's examination of Mobil 1, Shell and AMSOIL demonstrates the differences among companies who are shackled to the current system and one who isn't.

According to an ExxonMobil spokesperson, "Car owners should follow the oil change intervals specified by the manufacturer. We believe it is inappropriate to recommend drain intervals that may conflict with those set forth by the car manufacturer's specifications."

"Here, in a nutshell," says McFall, "is this observer's take on ExxonMobil's and the oil industry's 'owner's manual' position: It is designed solely to increase motor oil sales." He backs it up by mentioning that Mobil 1 SuperSyn motor oil claims to meet European ACEA A5 and B5-02 specifications, two specifications intended to extend oil drain intervals. "If the oil can be used in Europe for extended drain intervals, why doesn't ExxonMobil notify U.S. consumers of that capability?" asks McFall.

Although Shell Oil Products, owner of Pennzoil-Quaker State, has broken through the shackles enough to offer an API unlicensed oil specially formulated for higher mileage engines, they make no mention of a recommended drain interval, preferring instead to avoid the issue and keep consumers in the dark.

McFall marvels at the success of the independent motor oil company that offers drain intervals up to 11 times longer than the standard interval offered by conventional oils, saying, "Purists can sniff that AMSOIL's data isn't derived from a controlled field study, but the sheer mountain of vehicle miles over three decades, and the absence of any confirmed performance, wear or maintenance issues, speaks volumes."

McFall sums up his column by highlighting the true value of AMSOIL Synthetic Motor Oil, stating the cost may be "two to three times higher than most retail conventional oils but if you can securely count on a 15,000- to 25,000-mile drain interval, it's a flat-out bargain, not to mention providing a clear environmental bonus."

So, what is it that allows AMSOIL motor oils to be used for extended drain intervals, while other oils must be changed significantly sooner? First, the synthetic base stocks with which AMSOIL motor oils are formulated are worlds apart in quality compared with conventional base stocks. The synthetic molecules are uniform in size and shape, resisting the vaporization that boils off the smaller molecules of conventional motor oils and leaves behind a thicker, higher viscosity oil that compromises engine protection. AMSOIL motor oils surpass even the most stringent European volatility standards, providing superior protection for extended drain intervals.

Second, AMSOIL spares no expense when it comes to additives, selecting the most robust additive packages on the market. These additives keep AMSOIL motor oils shear stable, resist the degrading effects of varnish and sludge, keep engine components clean and deposit-free and effectively resist rust, corrosion and foaming.

By using only the highest quality synthetic base stocks and additives available, AMSOIL motor oils are capable of extended drain intervals, all while maintaining performance, providing long-term wear protection and fuel economy, keeping engines clean and deposit-free, providing cold weather starts and protecting against rust and corrosion.

To sum it up. AMSOIL has a good product and if you are into saving money with superior oil performance.. go for it.

AMSOIL Store

Originally posted by mr_froge:
AMSOIL is the first 100% sythetic oil to receive the API certificate. The reason that no other AMSOIL products or anyother 100% synthetic have this certification is because of the formulation of their long extended drain interval products. I Quote: "As of July 1, 2002, AMSOIL INC. of Superior, Wisconsin, re-formulated its XL-7500 line of synthetic motor oils to meet API SL/ILSAC GF-3 certification standards with the use of Synthetic Group III base oils.

AMSOIL�??s exclusive additive chemistry and Group III base oil combination provides the quality and protection needed for 7500 mile drain intervals. The new formulation offers motorists improved protection of emissions control systems and extended service life. According to Alan Amatuzio, VP-Manufacturing, �??These API SL/GF-3 oils provide better high temperature deposit control and lower oil consumption than basic petroleum oils.�?�

Included in the AMSOIL XL-7500 motor oil line up is the 5W-20 viscosity grade, enabling oil change professionals to offer a high quality synthetic that meets the warranty requirements of Ford and Honda, the two current companies recommending this viscosity grade. This oil minimizes friction and provides superior wear protection throughout its extended service life of 7500 miles or six months, whichever comes first.

The new oils also cost less than previous XL-7500 products. The rest of the AMSOIL synthetic motor oil line continues to use PAO based oils in their formulations. XL-7500 is available in a full range of package sizes from quarts to drums in today�??s three leading viscosities, 5W-20, 5W-30 and 10W-30."

ALL mobil oil is API certified (check the api site for mobil)

-edit, I'll do it for you:-
MOBIL 1 0W-20 SL/CF*
MOBIL 1 0W-30 SL/CF*
MOBIL 1 0W-40 SL/CF*
MOBIL 1 10W-30 SL/CF*
MOBIL 1 15W-50 SL/CF
MOBIL 1 5W-30 SL/CF*

as is every other oil on the shelf in your local store. The ONLY amsoil certification is for the 7500 series oils. BTW did you know that the Group III base is a heavily worked conventional oil - the same stuff that people complain castrol calls synthetic? And the reason that the other "premium" amsoil synthetic brands carry no certification is that they use more phosphorous contining additives than the API spec allows, due to concerns over emmisions / catlyst issues?

And as for

Quote:

"�??These API SL/GF-3 oils provide better high temperature deposit control and lower oil consumption than basic petroleum oils.�?�"

- just about every conventional oil for sale in the US (at like a 1.25/qt) meet this spec now!

The more I read about amsoil the less I like it...

I just re-read this and it seems a little harsher than I intended - I'm sure amsoil is a very good synthetic oil, as is every other synthetic oil on the market.

What I still can't decide (though I'm swayed toward not) is wheter it is worth the hype / premium price it gets.

The claims you guys are making for Amsoil are basically the same ones claimed by all the other companies selling synthetic oil.
And yes, Mobil 1 makes a 5W-20 now too!
Amsoil certaily hypes-up their motor oil to promote sales. As stated before, which you guys failed to address, is that Amsoil does not manufacture any othe the oil ingredients. They buy their components from other companies.
Again, if it were so good, then Corvette, Porsche, Mercedes and other would recommend its use in their new cars rather than Mobil 1.
Ditto race teams.

Originally posted by mr_froge:

So, what is it that allows AMSOIL motor oils to be used for extended drain intervals, while other oils must be changed significantly sooner?

That would be the litigious nature of the US legal system, coupled with AMSOIL's big cahunas.

Many people have been probing the limits of Mobile 1, and so far, nobody's really found it. That's on an oil not formulated for extended drains, but I would think that Mobil 1 would be safe up to at least 10k for most people, based solely on the inherent advantages of synthetic. But again, for legal and liability reasons, Mobile 1 makes no such claims in the US.

As for Amsoil, a 25k mile drain interval is a bargain if you actually drive that far in 6 months. (Oh yeah, the other drain interval.) I'm lucky to drive that far in 60 months. So, basically, I'd be changing my Amsoil just as often as I change my Mobile 1.

I'm not saying it isn't a great product. But, it was designed/optimized for tractor/trailers, not low-mileage daily drivers. Mobile 1 gives me all the synth advantages I need at considerably less cost and hassle.

Originally posted by ScottK:

Originally posted by Drumbo:

As their label indicates, Amsoil 100% synths are not a "blend" -- they're 100% synthetic.

As their label also indicates, they are -- and always have been -- API certified.

Your research seems to have a few holes. Maybe you should redo it.

BTW -- Would you happen to be a former customer of Tommy Chong?

re blend:

by blend I did not mean conventional / syn blend, but an off the shelf syn. base stock with some amsoil specific additives.

re api -

maybe they should tell the api that all there oil is certified???

http://eolcs.api.org/DisplayLicenseInfo.asp?LicenseNo=0995

" ... but an off the shelf syn. base stock with some amsoil specific additives."

That's all any synlube is ... It's a matter of how you put them together and how much R&D and QC/QA input you have.

But, my bad. What I should have said is, all Amsoil lubes meet or (greatly) exceed API specs. Last time I looked, only one Amsoil engine oil is API certified. Do you really believe the American Petroleum Institute is going to wrap its arms around and give a big hug to a full-line of extended-drain, 100% synth oils? Nice Dreams.

As I've disclaimed soooo many times, I'm not an Amsoil apostle -- I've just been using their synlubes and greases for 16 years and know with absolute certainty they deliver as-claimed. If you don't want to use them, don't. I'll lose no sleep over that.

Originally posted by mr_froge:
AMSOIL is the first 100% sythetic oil to receive the API certificate. The reason that no other AMSOIL products or anyother 100% synthetic have this certification is because of the formulation of their long extended drain interval products. I Quote: "As of July 1, 2002, AMSOIL INC. of Superior, Wisconsin, re-formulated its XL-7500 line of synthetic motor oils to meet API SL/ILSAC GF-3 certification standards with the use of Synthetic Group III base oils.

Thanks for the particulars, Rich. As I had to let my Amsoil dealership go 9 years ago when I took a job with AT&T, I haven't kept up with subsequent R&D in fine detail.

Originally posted by DanB:
The claims you guys are making for Amsoil are basically the same ones claimed by all the other companies selling synthetic oil.
And yes, Mobil 1 makes a 5W-20 now too!
Amsoil certaily hypes-up their motor oil to promote sales. As stated before, which you guys failed to address, is that Amsoil does not manufacture any othe the oil ingredients. They buy their components from other companies.
Again, if it were so good, then Corvette, Porsche, Mercedes and other would recommend its use in their new cars rather than Mobil 1.
Ditto race teams.

Ya think, Dan?

"Corvette, Porsche, Mercedes and other" have entered into a co-branded marketing agreement -- in which performance takes a back-seat to brand-recognition and brand-loyalty.

Originally posted by ScottK:
I just re-read this and it seems a little harsher than I intended - I'm sure amsoil is a very good synthetic oil, as is every other synthetic oil on the market.

What I still can't decide (though I'm swayed toward not) is wheter it is worth the hype / premium price it gets.

I'm sure amsoil is a very good synthetic oil, as is every other synthetic oil on the market

Whatever you do, Scott, don't make the mistake of assuming all synlubes are created equal. They're not. There are some really half-assed, designed-by-committee impostors out there.

For my money, only Amsoil and Mobil 1 have distinguished themselves over the long haul.

Red-Line products are way too pricey and offer nothing better than their better-priced, better competitors. Another line -- called Crystal Purple, or Deep Purple, or Ozzie's Blend, or somesuch -- also has a good rep, I'm told -- but I've never used it ... obviously.

Originally posted by Drumbo:

Another line -- called Crystal Purple, or Deep Purple, or Ozzie's Blend, or somesuch -- also has a good rep, I'm told -- but I've never used it ... obviously.

I think it's called, "Sexy Chocolate."

Originally posted by RogerB:
Mobile 1 gives me all the synth advantages I need at considerably less cost and hassle.

Agreed.

Originally posted by Kremithefrog:

Originally posted by RogerB:
Mobile 1 gives me all the synth advantages I need at considerably less cost and hassle.

Agreed.

"... less cost and hassle"?

I change the Amsoil in my CSVT every 15K mi, which, for me, amounts to one change per year. Annual cost, including "add oil": about $50, MINUS the value of time-saved by not having to do an oil change every 3K.

Next change, I'll send a sample to Cleveland Tech to gauge how how much servicable life the oil has at 15K.

How many times per year do you guys do an oil change?

Originally posted by Drumbo:

Originally posted by Kremithefrog:

Originally posted by RogerB:
Mobile 1 gives me all the synth advantages I need at considerably less cost and hassle.

Agreed.

"... less cost and hassle"?

I change the Amsoil in my CSVT every 15K mi, which, for me, amounts to one change per year. Annual cost, including "add oil": about $50, MINUS the value of time-saved by not having to do an oil change every 3K.

Next change, I'll send a sample to Cleveland Tech to gauge how how much servicable life the oil has at 15K.

How many times per year do you guys do an oil change?

Let's see, I've had the car since January of 96, and it has about 61,000 miles on it, so that comes to just over 8,000 miles per year. That's average, so it includes the first couple of years, in which I generally put more miles on the car than I do now. So the 25,000 mile a year sales pitch, and even the 12k/year pitch, don't really apply to me. (I've never changed at 3k intervals, either.) I'll bet that if I wanted to, I could go a full year with Mobil 1, get the oil analyzed, and learn that I'm doing just fine.

One thing that has changed, is that AMsoil seems to be running a bit cheaper now. I suppose it's worth another look.

You don't HAVE to change mobil1 at 3k miles either. Where is the proof saying that mobil1 can't do the same intervals as amsoil? Changing the oil really isn't a hassle, finding oil at a good price is. I can't get amsoil locally, and it costs a bit more than mobil1, then add shipping. And it cost more and was more of a hassle to get.

Originally posted by RogerB:

Originally posted by Drumbo:

Originally posted by Kremithefrog:

Originally posted by RogerB:
Mobile 1 gives me all the synth advantages I need at considerably less cost and hassle.

Agreed.

"... less cost and hassle"?

I change the Amsoil in my CSVT every 15K mi, which, for me, amounts to one change per year. Annual cost, including "add oil": about $50, MINUS the value of time-saved by not having to do an oil change every 3K.

Next change, I'll send a sample to Cleveland Tech to gauge how how much servicable life the oil has at 15K.

How many times per year do you guys do an oil change?

Let's see, I've had the car since January of 96, and it has about 61,000 miles on it, so that comes to just over 8,000 miles per year. That's average, so it includes the first couple of years, in which I generally put more miles on the car than I do now. So the 25,000 mile a year sales pitch, and even the 12k/year pitch, don't really apply to me. (I've never changed at 3k intervals, either.) I'll bet that if I wanted to, I could go a full year with Mobil 1, get the oil analyzed, and learn that I'm doing just fine.

One thing that has changed, is that AMsoil seems to be running a bit cheaper now. I suppose it's worth another look.

Well, yah, Rog, unless my Amsoil guy has been subsidizing my purchases, Amsoil has been running a "bit cheaper" (AKA "more competitively priced") for about the past two years.

So, Now Hear This: With no promise of any future attention to this on my part, this a rewording of my "Not-An-Amsoil-Apostle" disclaimer:

Everything about Amsoil I've put out on this website is based on my 16 year's worth of experience as an Amsoil user.

It is intended for general consumption.

It is not intended to incite or inspire anyone to engage me in any exchange about their personal or quasi-religious devotion to their particular motor oil brand-of-choice.

If you prefer to run Mobil 1, run Mobil 1. Mobil 1 is a perfectly respectable product ... If I couldn't get Amsoil, I'd use Mobil 1 in a heartbeat. But, with Internet access, sourcing Amsoil is as easy as going to
http://www.amsoil.com/

Meantime, Rog, get that M1 tested, then post the report as a .pdf here.

Originally posted by Kremithefrog:
Where is the proof saying that mobil1 can't do the same intervals as amsoil?

You need to get back to ExxonMobil on that one, KTF.

Originally posted by Drumbo:

Originally posted by RogerB:

Originally posted by Drumbo:

Originally posted by Kremithefrog:

Originally posted by RogerB:
Mobile 1 gives me all the synth advantages I need at considerably less cost and hassle.

Agreed.

"... less cost and hassle"?

I change the Amsoil in my CSVT every 15K mi, which, for me, amounts to one change per year. Annual cost, including "add oil": about $50, MINUS the value of time-saved by not having to do an oil change every 3K.

Next change, I'll send a sample to Cleveland Tech to gauge how how much servicable life the oil has at 15K.

How many times per year do you guys do an oil change?

Let's see, I've had the car since January of 96, and it has about 61,000 miles on it, so that comes to just over 8,000 miles per year. That's average, so it includes the first couple of years, in which I generally put more miles on the car than I do now. So the 25,000 mile a year sales pitch, and even the 12k/year pitch, don't really apply to me. (I've never changed at 3k intervals, either.) I'll bet that if I wanted to, I could go a full year with Mobil 1, get the oil analyzed, and learn that I'm doing just fine.

One thing that has changed, is that AMsoil seems to be running a bit cheaper now. I suppose it's worth another look.

Well, yah, Rog, unless my Amsoil guy has been subsidizing my purchases, Amsoil has been running a "bit cheaper" (AKA "more competitively priced") for about the past two years.

So, Now Hear This: With no promise of any future attention to this on my part, this a rewording of my "Not-An-Amsoil-Apostle" disclaimer:

Everything about Amsoil I've put out on this website is based on my 16 year's worth of experience as an Amsoil user.

It is intended for general consumption.

It is not intended to incite or inspire anyone to engage me in any exchange about their personal or quasi-religious devotion to their particular motor oil brand-of-choice.

If you prefer to run Mobil 1, run Mobil 1. Mobil 1 is a perfectly respectable product ... If I couldn't get Amsoil, I'd use Mobil 1 in a heartbeat. But, with Internet access, sourcing Amsoil is as easy as going to
http://www.amsoil.com/

Meantime, Rog, get that M1 tested, then post the report as a .pdf here.

My "devotion" to Mobil 1 is based entirely on logic, and, as such, is subject to derailment by new information.

2 years? Look, I have too much to do to keep repeating research every few months. (And because I'm such a geek, a seemingly simple decision like, "which motor oil?" is a major decision requiring lots of research.

)

OK, so rather than just guessing, I ran the whole exercise again.

Comparing the two oils, yes, Amsoil beats Mobil 1 on VI, Flashpoint, and pour point, but both oils are superior to anything else I found data for. (Remember we're also trying to stay close to the same price point.) Enough said about that.

According to the Amsoil website, their 5W-30 is $5.85/quart. Take that times 6 (if you don't know why, search) and add shipping and it comes to $41.80 per oil change. The 5-quart Mobil 1 jug, plus an extra quart, plus tax, comes to about $26, locally.

Now, the argument is that because Amsoil can be changed less frequently, it's actually cheaper. That's true for some. Is it true for me?

Amsoil's recommended change interval is 25,000 miles, or once a year. As I said earlier, my yearly average is only 8,000 miles. That translates to a Mobil 1 oil change about every 7 or 8 months. If I start with an oil change in January of 2004, and run the intervals and costs out on both oils as far as the year 2027, the Mobil 1 is still cheaper by about $40 dollars. (By then I'll be 60, and my Contour will have about 250,000 miles.)

Now, $40 may not seem like much, and you could argue that it's worth more than $40 just to do fewer oil changes. But in the here and now, time and sweat are cheap, and money is tight.

Of course, all of this is based on current prices and car usage. If anything changes, I'll have to reexamine. And in 24 years, a lot can change.

Originally posted by RogerB:
OK, so rather than just guessing, I ran the whole exercise again.

Comparing the two oils, yes, Amsoil beats Mobil 1 on VI, Flashpoint, and pour point, but both oils are superior to anything else I found data for. (Remember we're also trying to stay close to the same price point.) Enough said about that.

According to the Amsoil website, their 5W-30 is $5.85/quart. Take that times 6 (if you don't know why, search) and add shipping and it comes to $41.80 per oil change. The 5-quart Mobil 1 jug, plus an extra quart, plus tax, comes to about $26, locally.

Now, the argument is that because Amsoil can be changed less frequently, it's actually cheaper. That's true for some. Is it true for me?

Amsoil's recommended change interval is 25,000 miles, or once a year. As I said earlier, my yearly average is only 8,000 miles. That translates to a Mobil 1 oil change about every 7 or 8 months. If I start with an oil change in January of 2004, and run the intervals and costs out on both oils as far as the year 2027, the Mobil 1 is still cheaper by about $40 dollars. (By then I'll be 60, and my Contour will have about 250,000 miles.)

Now, $40 may not seem like much, and you could argue that it's worth more than $40 just to do fewer oil changes. But in the here and now, time and sweat are cheap, and money is tight.

Of course, all of this is based on current prices and car usage. If anything changes, I'll have to reexamine. And in 24 years, a lot can change.

First off, Rog, apologies for the format-confusion. I didn't mean to imply that your oil preference is driven by "quasi-religious" brand devotion.

By using the "quote" reply mode, I was trying to maintain the overall context of the exchange ... And signal that all further CEG'er "contributions" amounting to little more than a "my-oil's-better-than-your-oil" pissing contest will be ignored.

Your reasons for preferring M1 seem quite sound to me. And, frankly, even if I thought otherwise, I wouldn't question your judgement.

Like I've said right along, I'm not on a mission. My comments about Amsoil are based on my personal experience over a long period of time and largely under extreme (XR4Ti turbo car + 12 Texas summers), "acid-test" conditions. Nothing more, nothing less.

Originally posted by ssmumich00:
I use Amsoil synthetic 5W-30 with the SDF-11 filter they recommend, change it twice a year minimum, usually every 3000miles. There's no problem with cold start up out here, the coldest it gets is 40 or 50 at the worst. I only drive her 5000-6000 miles a year. . .

I should get this next oil batch analyzed, how do you do that exactly?

Suneil

I recommend you contact:

Cleveland Technical Center
800-726-5401
18419 Euclid Avenue
Cleveland, OH 44112-1016

These guys at Paradise Garage are doing some oil longevity testing with an LS1 Camaro. Test is ongoing, and they just finished their Mobil 1 run at 18,000 miles. Amsoil is next up.

I'm very curious to see what they find, but it makes sense that the Amsoil will really excel here, seeing as how it was formulated for this kind of thing.

http://neptune.spacebears.com/cars/stories/oil-life.html

Originally posted by RogerB:
These guys at are doing some oil longevity testing with an LS1 Camaro. Test is ongoing, and they just finished their Mobil 1 run at 18,000 miles. Amsoil is next up.

I'm very curious to see what they find, but it makes sense that the Amsoil will really excel here, seeing as how it was formulated for this kind of thing.

http://neptune.spacebears.com/cars/stories/oil-life.html

Cool.

Definititely get back to us on their results ... And include details about the testing protocols Paradise Garage used (or provide their email and/or website). Details like that will help all CEGer's to understand how either M1 or Amsoil came out on top ...

Notice how neutral this die-hard Amsoil user is trying to be, here ... ?

Sorry, gotta go. For some reason, my Irritable Bowel Syndrome seems to be flaring-up.

Originally posted by Drumbo:

Originally posted by RogerB:
These guys at are doing some oil longevity testing with an LS1 Camaro. Test is ongoing, and they just finished their Mobil 1 run at 18,000 miles. Amsoil is next up.

I'm very curious to see what they find, but it makes sense that the Amsoil will really excel here, seeing as how it was formulated for this kind of thing.

http://neptune.spacebears.com/cars/stories/oil-life.html

Cool.

Definititely get back to us on their results ... And include details about the testing protocols Paradise Garage used (or provide their email and/or website). Details like that will help all CEGer's to understand how either M1 or Amsoil came out on top ...

Notice how neutral this die-hard Amsoil user is trying to be, here ... ?

Sorry, gotta go. For some reason, my Irritable Bowel Syndrome seems to be flaring-up.

Drumbo, you're such a shill. How much is Amsoil paying you?

Originally posted by RogerB:

Originally posted by Drumbo:

Originally posted by RogerB:
These guys at are doing some oil longevity testing with an LS1 Camaro. Test is ongoing, and they just finished their Mobil 1 run at 18,000 miles. Amsoil is next up.

I'm very curious to see what they find, but it makes sense that the Amsoil will really excel here, seeing as how it was formulated for this kind of thing.

http://neptune.spacebears.com/cars/stories/oil-life.html

Cool.

Definititely get back to us on their results ... And include details about the testing protocols Paradise Garage used (or provide their email and/or website). Details like that will help all CEGer's to understand how either M1 or Amsoil came out on top ...

Notice how neutral this die-hard Amsoil user is trying to be, here ... ?

Sorry, gotta go. For some reason, my Irritable Bowel Syndrome seems to be flaring-up.

Drumbo, you're such a shill. How much is Amsoil paying you?

More like "How much should they be paying me?"

I've had no affiliation with Amsoil for almost 10 years, RogerB. I'm a customer. Period.

Originally posted by RogerB:
These guys at Paradise Garage are doing some oil longevity testing with an LS1 Camaro. Test is ongoing, and they just finished their Mobil 1 run at 18,000 miles. Amsoil is next up.

I'm very curious to see what they find, but it makes sense that the Amsoil will really excel here, seeing as how it was formulated for this kind of thing.

http://neptune.spacebears.com/cars/stories/oil-life.html

Whoops! My face is red.

Originally scanned your post a bit too sloppily. After actually clicking on the provided link, just wanted to say thanks for bringing to our attention what looks like a really interesting site.

Originally posted by Drumbo:

Originally posted by RogerB:

Originally posted by Drumbo:

Originally posted by RogerB:
These guys at are doing some oil longevity testing with an LS1 Camaro. Test is ongoing, and they just finished their Mobil 1 run at 18,000 miles. Amsoil is next up.

I'm very curious to see what they find, but it makes sense that the Amsoil will really excel here, seeing as how it was formulated for this kind of thing.

http://neptune.spacebears.com/cars/stories/oil-life.html

Cool.

Definititely get back to us on their results ... And include details about the testing protocols Paradise Garage used (or provide their email and/or website). Details like that will help all CEGer's to understand how either M1 or Amsoil came out on top ...

Notice how neutral this die-hard Amsoil user is trying to be, here ... ?

Sorry, gotta go. For some reason, my Irritable Bowel Syndrome seems to be flaring-up.

Drumbo, you're such a shill. How much is Amsoil paying you?

More like "How much should they be paying me?"

I've had no affiliation with Amsoil for almost 10 years, RogerB. I'm a customer. Period.

Hey, you know I was just kidding, right?

Originally posted by RogerB:

Originally posted by Drumbo:

Originally posted by RogerB:

Originally posted by Drumbo:

Originally posted by RogerB:
These guys at are doing some oil longevity testing with an LS1 Camaro. Test is ongoing, and they just finished their Mobil 1 run at 18,000 miles. Amsoil is next up.

I'm very curious to see what they find, but it makes sense that the Amsoil will really excel here, seeing as how it was formulated for this kind of thing.

http://neptune.spacebears.com/cars/stories/oil-life.html

Cool.

Definititely get back to us on their results ... And include details about the testing protocols Paradise Garage used (or provide their email and/or website). Details like that will help all CEGer's to understand how either M1 or Amsoil came out on top ...

Notice how neutral this die-hard Amsoil user is trying to be, here ... ?

Sorry, gotta go. For some reason, my Irritable Bowel Syndrome seems to be flaring-up.

Drumbo, you're such a shill. How much is Amsoil paying you?

More like "How much should they be paying me?"

I've had no affiliation with Amsoil for almost 10 years, RogerB. I'm a customer. Period.

Hey, you know I was just kidding, right?

I knew that. Just wanted to make things clear for anyone who may not have realized you were just goofin' with me.

I use full synthetic oil(won't mention brands here, but it's not mobile 1)and motorcraft filter. I change every 5K, IMHO I think 3K oil change is overkill, Ford recomends every 3K to protect thier azz, I would do the same if I owned a car co. By the way I have 106K on my SVT and not a bit of problems with it,(not even the water pump

)
In the end everybody has to make the decision for themself and if you concerned then you should follow the Manufacturers recomendations.
Later

Originally posted by mr_froge:
I'm an independent AMSOIL dealer and can save you some money as well as protect your car and enhance its performance. My web site is still under construction but you are welcome to visit at LBC Performance Motorsports Group or go directly to the AMSOIL store at AMSOIL Store .

AMSOIL has three types of pure synthetic oil for the Duratec V6 and it really depends on the number of miles you drive per year and how comfortable you fee with "extended" oil drain intervals.

The first is the 7500 series and can be purchased in either 5w-30 or 10w-30 for the Duratec.. This will operate for 6 months or 7500 miles, which every comes first. I recommend the AMSOIL filer also, as it is more rugged and has a better filter material than any of the others I know of.

The second fluid is also a 5w-30 or 10w-30 but is good for 24,000 miles or 12 months..etc. etc.. Note that the filters still are recommend for changing every 6 months or 12,000 miles..

Now the one I use in my track preparied Cougar.. I run the 0w-30 which is a 36,000 mile or 12 month synthetic.. The improvement in preformance and increase in gas milage has been surprising..

You can purchase these at the AMSOIL Store web site and directly through me and receive a 10% discount on your oil purchase.. Email me directly for information .. remember that this discount is not available on the AMSOIL Store web site..

Other grades of oil are available such as the 10w-40 which is made for the turbo and sc cars or 20W-50 for the profesional track cars...

Any questions ?? just email me at Mr_Froge@lbcperformance.com

Dude, I changed my tranny fluid to Amsoil synthetic, runs really nice. Any recomendations for tranny fluid from the Amsoil man?

Originally posted by DanB:
The claims you guys are making for Amsoil are basically the same ones claimed by all the other companies selling synthetic oil.
And yes, Mobil 1 makes a 5W-20 now too!
Amsoil certaily hypes-up their motor oil to promote sales. As stated before, which you guys failed to address, is that Amsoil does not manufacture any othe the oil ingredients. They buy their components from other companies.
Again, if it were so good, then Corvette, Porsche, Mercedes and other would recommend its use in their new cars rather than Mobil 1.
Ditto race teams.

Are you really that naive to believe that what mercedes and porsche recomends is the Best!! WOW! good luck to you man
By the way I have a bridge for sell in London if your interested

Originally posted by SpeedTeufel:

Originally posted by DanB:
The claims you guys are making for Amsoil are basically the same ones claimed by all the other companies selling synthetic oil.
And yes, Mobil 1 makes a 5W-20 now too!
Amsoil certaily hypes-up their motor oil to promote sales. As stated before, which you guys failed to address, is that Amsoil does not manufacture any othe the oil ingredients. They buy their components from other companies.
Again, if it were so good, then Corvette, Porsche, Mercedes and other would recommend its use in their new cars rather than Mobil 1.
Ditto race teams.

Are you really that naive to believe that what mercedes and porsche recomends is the Best!! WOW! good luck to you man
By the way I have a bridge for sell in London if your interested

Actually, London Bridge has been in Arizona for about 20 years ... No kidding. That should cut shipping costs WAY down.

I usually run my Mobil 1 for 5K and then change just the filter and go another 5K and then do a complete change again. Also I've changed the MTX fluid every 20K, starting at 6K, then at 26K and recently at 45K where I added Mopar friction modifier. Damn 106K and you have the stock waterpump, when did you change your coolant and how often

I did mine at 30K and was thinking of having the w/p changed at 60K when I do my next coolant flush

I am sure Porsche or Mercedes would recommend an oil that would be "bad" for warranty!
C'mon guys, address the issues:

- Why do most race teams use Mobil 1 and not Amsoil?

- Amsoil does NOT manufacture any of their oil components, including base stocks.

- If it were so good, demand would be greater and you would see Amsoil in all major stores!

How bout this::: Both oils are good and will be fine for normal use in any of our cars. Just mobil1 cost less and is easier to get, while amsoil MAY give a smidgen more protection.

- Why do most race teams use Mobil 1 and not Amsoil?

- Amsoil does NOT manufacture any of their oil components, including base stocks.

Item 1: Two words: Brand recognition. Mobil has a much bigger advertising and marketing budget, hence, a much higher profile.

Item 2: As long as Amsoil controls QC/QA and the base stocks are top-grade, who cares? You think all ExxonMobil gasoline is refined from crude from the same oil field? As long as the end-product performs as expected, I really don't give a flip about how it came to be.

... while amsoil MAY give a smidgen more protection.

Another, per-drain, 12,000 miles worth of "smidgen", in my CSVT. And a Garrett-Airesearch TO3 turbocharger still working flawlessly (along with the rest of the Amsoil-protected powertrain) when I traded-in my '85 Merkur XR4Ti at 195,000 miles.

Who's to say that you couldn't have done that with mobil1?

Like I said before, NO ONE can match the R&D money and resources of ExxonMobil, one the top three corporations in the world!
Not Amsoil, not anybody else.
As for brand recognition, why would one use Mobil 1 if they were not paid by the sponsor? Because its better.
As for QC, Amsoil gets what's given to them by the suppliers. These same suppliers probably sell to a slew of other oil companies marketing sythetic motor oil.

The Mobil 1 vs. Amsoil reminds me of the Meguiars vs, Zaino debate, with Meguiars being Mobil 1 ofcoarse

Theres too many cars that come "factory filled" with Mobil 1, Vettes, Vipers, Cobras, Porche, etc. With that being said though, our work vans have been running regular Valvoline for most of their lifes (just swithched to Mobil 1 because I have less time to change them) The one van, a 98' GMC Safari has 255K on the original motor and its never been opened up. The other van is a 97'w/ 465K and has the original motor as well, but the oil pump was replaced at 100K and thats it for opening up the motor. We have another van which is a 94' Safari that had the motor replaced at 98K and it now has 415K and again, that motor has never been opened up. The main reason I use Mobil 1 is because of reputation, certain OE's run it from the factory and price, I only wanna run the best in my ride

Good point!
You can expect a lot of mileage out of a vehicle using mineral based oils provided it is not abused and has gotten regular maintenance. Many like you have done it and are well into the many 100k's on the clock.
That being said, almost any synthetic oil, be it Mobil or Amsoil or others, can be expected to be pretty darn good and a definite improvement over regular oil.
Again, I mainly buy Mobil 1 because it is well developed, readily available and is cheaper than most brands on the shelf.

Originally posted by Kremithefrog:
Who's to say that you couldn't have done that with mobil1?

Well, for starters, ExxonMobil.

Post deleted by Drumbo

Originally posted by DanB:
Like I said before, NO ONE can match the R&D money and resources of ExxonMobil, one the top three corporations in the world!
Not Amsoil, not anybody else.
As for brand recognition, why would one use Mobil 1 if they were not paid by the sponsor? Because its better.
As for QC, Amsoil gets what's given to them by the suppliers. These same suppliers probably sell to a slew of other oil companies marketing sythetic motor oil.

"Amsoil gets what's given to them by the suppliers.

These same suppliers probably sell to a slew of other oil companies marketing sythetic motor oil "

Yo, Junior, it's beginning to look like you're making up your "facts" as you go along.

You're not even close. Amsoil was in the synlubes business about 15 years before Mobil took their first, still-timid, copycat plunge into synlubes in the mid-80's. And, when Mobil first put their toe in the synlubes market, which synlubes do you think they were trying to copy? (HINT: AMSOIL)

Do you really think that, with a 15-year jump on the synlubes market, Amsoil has to go begging for vendors w/top-quality QC/QA? Dream on.

From the performance side, E-M has been playing catch-up ball ever since.

But, hey, if you're happy running M1 (a perfectly respectable, non-Xdrain synlube), I'm happy for you. After all, it's your car, not mine.

Originally posted by Drumbo:

Originally posted by Kremithefrog:
Who's to say that you couldn't have done that with mobil1?

Well, for starters, ExxonMobil.

So if they slapped something on the oil saying you could go that long, then you could? Wow, I get it now.

I think the real question has now become: which will last longer: amsoil, mobil1 or this silly thread?

(BTW - Mobil1 was selling syn motor oil in 1973 and invented the first syn bearing lube EVER in the 60's)

I put my money on this thread, but I'm not sure how many quarts my zetec can hold of it.

Do you think in your wildest imagination that Amsoil is the only company that buys from their suppliers!?
If Amsoil was their only customer, they would have closed shop years ago.
Also, Mobil marketed Mobil 1 in the seventies, NOT mid-eighties! I have been using it for over twenty years.
Get your facts straight.
I'll say it again:
Many owners have gotten Many hundreds of thousands of miles out of their vehicles using conventional oil. Be it Mobil, Valvoline, etc., or even Amsoil synthetics, one should expect better service than using conventional motor oil.
Mobil will be in the business making synthetic motor oil long after Amsoil has bitten the dust!

Originally posted by DanB:
Do you think in your wildest imagination that Amsoil is the only company that buys from their suppliers!?
If Amsoil was their only customer, they would have closed shop years ago.
Also, Mobil marketed Mobil 1 in the seventies, NOT mid-eighties! I have been using it for over twenty years.
Get your facts straight.
I'll say it again:
Many owners have gotten Many hundreds of thousands of miles out of their vehicles using conventional oil. Be it Mobil, Valvoline, etc., or even Amsoil synthetics, one should expect better service than using conventional motor oil.
Mobil will be in the business making synthetic motor oil long after Amsoil has bitten the dust!

Dude, don't get so emotional. Amsoil is my oil, not my religion.

Like I said, it's your car, not mine -- which was a polite way of saying this isn't a pissing contest and I really don't give a rat's butthole what you run in your car. If you're happy running M1, I'm happy for you.

Originally posted by ScottK:
I think the real question has now become: which will last longer: amsoil, mobil1 or this silly thread?

(BTW - Mobil1 was selling syn motor oil in 1973 and invented the first syn bearing lube EVER in the 60's)

Silly, in that, for some, proselytizing about engine oil seem to be a religious-experience.

3000 miles. Extra protection is the advantage.

I love this post, big time

Too bad I can't find that one post where the guy had his oil tested and IIRC, the oil had alot of life in it still and the mileage was like 8K. Also the oil was synthetic, just don't remember which one. Meguiars and Mobil 1, what a beautiful pair, the new "M&M"

That article that someone posted about the longevity test with Mobil 1 is good enought for me. They decided to finally end the test at 20,000 miles...

I'm more comfortable about running it till 7500 miles in my car, or till the oil monitor in the buick hits 0% (~9000 miles)

either way, it seems I'm using about half the oils expected life. I would change less often due to oil filter life...

Originally posted by The Striped SVT:
I love this post, big time Too bad I can't find that one post where the guy had his oil tested and IIRC, the oil had alot of life in it still and the mileage was like 8K. Also the oil was synthetic, just don't remember which one. Meguiars and Mobil 1, what a beautiful pair, the new "M&M"

You mean this one with at Paradise Garage Paradise Garage Oil Life Study

Or just looking at my Geo Prizm with 8300 miles on Mobil 1 in 120 days...

http://tlcc2000.dyndns.org/Oil_Analysis/ <-- My web server seems to be off the air right now, so it may be a while before you can look at these...

TB

We are back up

So was that at an interval of 7500K then? If so, are you saying you could've went another 12.5K then? Did you run Mobil 1 in your car from the time it was new? We had a 96 Geo Prizm for 5 years, bought it new, and I ran regular oil in it until it hit about 50K and then added Mobil 1 w/o any problems and I left it in there for some time, let me tell you. In an unrelated note, that was a great car, the only thing that went bad on it in 5 years and 95K was the battery and altnerator. We tuned it up at 40K and I did filter and gasket changes on the tranny at 30K and 60K, then had the entire tranny flushed at 80K with this T-tech machine. I'm sure its a great car for whomever owns it right now

I ran the oil 8292 miles, you see two samples of the same oil.

I purchased this car used in April, and wanted to see if I could go 8K plus on an oil change.

I feel confident that I can go 10-12K on Mobil 1 in this car.

However, keep in mind that I did that 8300 miles in 120 days, and will probably drive 2250-2500 miles each month.

People driving shorter intervals may not be able to go 10K miles if it takes a year to get there.

One other thing, I changed the oil filter after the 3161 mile analysis. I used a plain Purolator for the first interval and replaced it with a Purolator PureONE for the last 5k miles.

The car got "Iffy Lube" changes for the first 106K miles of it's life. I have all the receipts from the previous owner.

FWIW,

TB

Originally posted by BOFH:

Originally posted by The Striped SVT:
I love this post, big time Too bad I can't find that one post where the guy had his oil tested and IIRC, the oil had alot of life in it still and the mileage was like 8K. Also the oil was synthetic, just don't remember which one. Meguiars and Mobil 1, what a beautiful pair, the new "M&M"

You mean this one with at Paradise Garage Paradise Garage Oil Life Study

Or just looking at my Geo Prizm with 8300 miles on Mobil 1 in 120 days...

http://tlcc2000.dyndns.org/Oil_Analysis/ <-- My web server seems to be off the air right now, so it may be a while before you can look at these...

TB

TTT

oil study updated

2,000 miles on amsoil now. '

Looks like amsoil is at the high end of the viscosity spec for a 5-30 while mobil1 is at the low. Amsoil appears to use ALOT more magnesium in it's forumlation (detergent). After 2k miles the amsoil TBN is down to 5.1, mobil1 kept above 5.5 out to 10k miles.

Next update in Fed.

Without getting it tested its tough to say, but a good rule of thumb for most synthetics is 7500 miles, but I know it can go even longer depending on how and where you drive and what oil filter your runnin'

I didn't have time to read all 12 pages of this thread but I have 5W-30 Mobil 1 in my Duratec. I had the oil tested by the lab at around 6500 miles since the change. They said my upper cylinder metals were above average. When I tried 5700 miles for the next change they said the numbers came down and the Mobil 1 formulation had changed from the first oil sample but I was still above average. They recommended 5300 between changes. They said the average change interval for the 2.5L was 5400 miles so they didn't think the oil was at fault.

Is Mobil 1 monkeying around with the formula so they can compete on price with Syntec?