zetec FD ratio upgrade - CEG Archives

Originally posted by warmonger:

Originally posted by Russell-3L:
i just ordered a zetec mtx75 for $150 shipped to be a donor for the FD ratio for my duratec mtx75.

i know the ring gear is easy to install, after all i did install the torsen myself.

now the pinion gear is what im wondering about, how had is it to install, and what kinda special tools do i need?

thanks,
Russell

HOLD UP! NOWHERE in the DIY parts list is it said that the ZETEC final drive is an option!!!

Only about 1% of the DIY'rs out there should think about doing that mod as you need differnt parts, special tools and knowledge to do this. For the most part I'd say the zetec FD is not a smart option anyway unless you have a lot of power.

Why is in not a good idea unless you have alot of power?

The ratio is lower. less turns per minute than the standard FD means a lower reving engine (better on gas on the freeway, etc), longer runs through each gear, higher mph in each gear at redline, etc. (for instance, it allows a 60mph speed before the 2-3 shift)

Originally posted by Ray:
The ratio is lower. less turns per minute than the standard FD means a lower reving engine (better on gas on the freeway, etc), longer runs through each gear, higher mph in each gear at redline, etc. (for instance, it allows a 60mph speed before the 2-3 shift)

yeah 60 in second is nice...my accord does this and its a blast....

Originally posted by todras:
{TH}My ongoing concern with the DIY on any MTX75 is ,as I have said in the past,a lot of the info in the transaxle forum is totally incorrect, that along with bad info from other owners is leading owners down the wrong path and getting them in deep s**t when they tear down an MTX. I interce when I see rubbish being posted and incorrect info be thrown out by those who know little of the MTX....no axe to grind here but for goodness sake stop taking the 'simple' view of an MTX. Either speak from experience or genuine understanding of the gearbox or say nothing. This guy followed the masses re 'you only need a ring gear' and got into deep s**t...which tells you, in most cases, the masses knowledge of the MTX75 is weak at best..I have a 'few' under my belt so I think I may know a little more...

...with the FDR change, could get himself in deep trouble he if he doesn't know what level of output shaft he has in the existing trans, but WTF do I know!!!!

are you talkin about me?

holy crap dude, i didnt mean to piss you off.....

Originally posted by Instigator:

Originally posted by todras:
{TH}My ongoing concern with the DIY on any MTX75 is ,as I have said in the past,a lot of the info in the transaxle forum is totally incorrect, that along with bad info from other owners is leading owners down the wrong path and getting them in deep s**t when they tear down an MTX. I interce when I see rubbish being posted and incorrect info be thrown out by those who know little of the MTX....no axe to grind here but for goodness sake stop taking the 'simple' view of an MTX. Either speak from experience or genuine understanding of the gearbox or say nothing. This guy followed the masses re 'you only need a ring gear' and got into deep s**t...which tells you, in most cases, the masses knowledge of the MTX75 is weak at best..I have a 'few' under my belt so I think I may know a little more...

...with the FDR change, could get himself in deep trouble he if he doesn't know what level of output shaft he has in the existing trans, but WTF do I know!!!!

are you talkin about me?

holy crap dude, i didnt mean to piss you off.....

I don't think he is pissed at you...

Simply stating that there is a lot of misinformation and your the most recent example of that misinformation!

Originally posted by svtProdigy:

Originally posted by Ray:
The ratio is lower. less turns per minute than the standard FD means a lower reving engine (better on gas on the freeway, etc), longer runs through each gear, higher mph in each gear at redline, etc. (for instance, it allows a 60mph speed before the 2-3 shift)

yeah 60 in second is nice...my accord does this and its a blast....

It's easy to do 60 in second with larger tires and a higher rev limiter...both easier mods that are cheaper since you will need tires and a tune on a modd'd car anyway, and then you don't loose your acceleration capability like with the higher FD. What if you decide one day to run slicks? THen you will want the better FD to get a better launch, especially if you can hold the traction.
It just turns out simpler in the long run.

I guess I said it too harshly when I said it isn't an option. It IS an option that I would say is best avoided unless you have lots of power or are tuning a highway ride or etc. But for 99% of the DIYrs it is not an otion.

Originally posted by MapOfTaziFoShoâ�??¢:

Originally posted by Instigator:

Originally posted by todras:
{TH}My ongoing concern with the DIY on any MTX75 is ,as I have said in the past,a lot of the info in the transaxle forum is totally incorrect, that along with bad info from other owners is leading owners down the wrong path and getting them in deep s**t when they tear down an MTX. I interce when I see rubbish being posted and incorrect info be thrown out by those who know little of the MTX....no axe to grind here but for goodness sake stop taking the 'simple' view of an MTX. Either speak from experience or genuine understanding of the gearbox or say nothing. This guy followed the masses re 'you only need a ring gear' and got into deep s**t...which tells you, in most cases, the masses knowledge of the MTX75 is weak at best..I have a 'few' under my belt so I think I may know a little more...

...with the FDR change, could get himself in deep trouble he if he doesn't know what level of output shaft he has in the existing trans, but WTF do I know!!!!

are you talkin about me?

holy crap dude, i didnt mean to piss you off.....

I don't think he is pissed at you...

Simply stating that there is a lot of misinformation and your the most recent example of that misinformation!

Most recent VICTIM of it you mean.

Still, the information that said that both a ring and pinion was required has always been available on the Forums here, he just missed it that's all. [censored] happens.

So, hey. I'd like to do this Zetec drive swap too. The only tools I have at hand right now are a ball point pen, a pair of scissors, a coffee stirrer, & a stapler. Will my wife still love me after this swap??

well i have the whole entire zetec transmission in my possession to use as a donor, and for big power, im sure a turbo oval port 3L counts right? i had zero traction with the hybrid and with the turbo will be worse. ive also got upgraded shift forks on the way

Originally posted by TourDeForce:
So, hey. I'd like to do this Zetec drive swap too. The only tools I have at hand right now are a ball point pen, a pair of scissors, a coffee stirrer, & a stapler. Will my wife still love me after this swap??

Probably...if you trained her well.

Originally posted by TourDeForce:
So, hey. I'd like to do this Zetec drive swap too. The only tools I have at hand right now are a ball point pen, a pair of scissors, a coffee stirrer, & a stapler. Will my wife still love me after this swap??

only if you are macgyver

How many different pinion gears are available for the zetec FD upgrade? Is there a way to measure the output shaft inorder to find what size we will need? Can we take the numbers of the tranny inorder to find the one we need?

How much HP would one consider to be enough to do the swap if the tranny will be open anyway? 250-300 at the wheels?

I may be doing this in a 99 tranny.

Thanks.

alot of people will tell you only do the swap if you got big power, like a turbo. i personally wished i woulda had it with the 3L hybrid. now that im going turbo its a must IMO

Originally posted by warmonger:

It's easy to do 60 in second with larger tires and a higher rev limiter...both easier mods that are cheaper since you will need tires and a tune on a modd'd car anyway, and then you don't loose your acceleration capability like with the higher FD. What if you decide one day to run slicks? THen you will want the better FD to get a better launch, especially if you can hold the traction.
It just turns out simpler in the long run.

I guess I said it too harshly when I said it isn't an option. It IS an option that I would say is best avoided unless you have lots of power or are tuning a highway ride or etc. But for 99% of the DIYrs it is not an otion.

Tom, I wasn't trying to advocate it, I was explaining how it functioned as it does, as the poster above had asked. Sorry if it seemed that way.

No worries, I wasn't even thinking about that. I was quoting the guy who quoted you.

You are correct about function and benefits too, I just wanted to point out that there are good reasons that the duratec FD was put in by Ford, and good reasons to leave it in too (like no additional headaches).
It is a good option for someone with a high power car, LIKE YOURS, or someone who travels the highway a lot and wants better economy.

All that being said, I wouldn't trust myself doing that swap on those gears unless I obtained a few more tools. I can't see the normal DIY'r doing that one.

Originally posted by warmonger:
It is a good option for someone with a high power car, LIKE YOURS

Haha.. you never cease to make me laugh. I WUB YOU MAN! LOLOLOL

...for the masses who spout bunk on the FDR ratio you
should/should not have on a 3.0 V6. Since around 99/2000 ALL UK & Europe V6 Mondeos/Cougars have the ZETEC 3.82 as standard in 2.5 V6 MTX75's...period! The only MTX's that used the 'low' 4.06 ratio are the USA V6 MTX's......

I'm yet to ride/drive in a Contour with a N/A 3L, with the Zetec FD. I don't feel that the 4.06 FD proposes much of a problem with traction, or fuel efficiency. I average 23-24mpg with city/highway mix, and am around 27-28mpg on the highway. I don't think it's a matter of which FD the 3.0L should come with, but is more of a matter of preference. I'll sacrifice 1-2mpg for better acceleration, personally.

Mark

Originally posted by Y2KSVT:
I'll sacrifice 1-2mpg for better acceleration, personally.

Mark

i had all the acceleration i needed with the hybrid, the zetec FD ratio woulda made it better IMO.

with the turbo ill have way more than i need and the zetec FD will be a must IMO

I have a 2.5 with a 75 shot...and i was personally thinking about going with the 4.5 final drive...and some sticky tires of course!

Originally posted by 99cougar:
I have a 2.5 with a 75 shot...and i was personally thinking about going with the 4.5 final drive...and some sticky tires of course!

3.0L + 100 shot + 4.06 FD + sticky tires = no problems at all. 1st gear will spin if I hammer down to quickly, but once it's hooked from the launch, I can bury the go-pedal, and it's pure acceleration. Bang 2nd gear and it pulls forward with no spin. I must have a freak car.

Mark

The tires i have on my 19's must suck then! Cause when i hit 2nd with the 75 shot...all it does is spin those big heavy biotches over until i hit 3rd! lol

EDIT: BTW...i am still in love with your bottle heater!

Originally posted by 99cougar:
EDIT: BTW...i am still in love with your bottle heater!

Awesome! Glad it worked out for ya!

Mark

Originally posted by Y2KSVT:
I'm yet to ride/drive in a Contour with a N/A 3L, with the Zetec FD. I don't feel that the 4.06 FD proposes much of a problem with traction, or fuel efficiency. I average 23-24mpg with city/highway mix, and am around 27-28mpg on the highway. I don't think it's a matter of which FD the 3.0L should come with, but is more of a matter of preference. I'll sacrifice 1-2mpg for better acceleration, personally.

Mark

Yeah, despite the fact that the 3.83 is used exclusively now, I can't imagine the need to change if you already have it other than as I was stating above.
Why INDEED did Ford feel the need to use two separate FD's when one would have been much simpler and cheaper?
I'm guessing as they were decontenting usefull things out of the platform they also figured out that one size fits all IS cheaper. So of course that means that either the first design philosophies are wrong, or the later ones are...they can't have their cake and eat it too. If all else is equal and I were tooling around in a 2.5L, I'm taking the gears that give better acceleration, even if only slight.
In my 3L the 4.06 was just on the border of traction with newer/better tires. It made it a drivers game that I found I could easily live with.

well a little update

i purchased a 12ton shop press for $150 shipped

so far i pressed off the pinion gear with no problem at all.

these transmissions are accually pretty easy to work on!

ima fool around with my donor zetec trans a bit and i may install new syncros in my good tranny just because its apart.

im going to check all endplay and shim where needed (with the help of my neighbor whos an experenced machinist) and im even gonna check the torsen install and see if it does need shimmed after all.

ive got about $350 invested for the zetec FD ratio part of my trans project. $150 for zetec tranny, $150 for press, and $50 for the bearing splitter i needed to rip apart the shafts.

those total costs right there are less than sending to terry, not to mention im now equiped to do alot more things in my little shop. im also learning alot as i go along. i will also use the press for rebuilding outdrives on boats this summer and all kinds of other press work, as no shop around here has a press (including where i work)

ill keep everyone updated and ill be sure to write a how-to with plenty of pictures for those who are brave enough to try this themselves

Originally posted by Russell-3L:
and all kinds of other press work, as no shop around here has a press (including where i work)

Offer to let your shop rent your press, or use your press for a percentage of all work done with it! lol

anyway.. good buy on the press!

Great deal! Good luck with your work and I hope all goes well in your quest to learn how to do all the work in your transmission.

Good luck mang.