hypothetical question - CEG Archives

i was going to try with my hand or another obect small enopugh to fit. if that didnt work, stick and axle in and try.

it should rotate, correct? i havent tried yet because i am trying to diagnose the problem if my car not wanting to move one possibility a a time.

if its in neutral and you spin the input shaft the differential should not spin.

so in a sense they should spin independently when in neutral.

yea i kinda thought that. thanks, ill take a look at this now.

Maybe it has something to do with you retro-fitting the zetec FD on there...

retro fit? i dont understand....

the stock FD came off and i put the zetec one on.......simple swap of ring gears......

Originally posted by Instigator:
retro fit? i dont understand....

the stock FD came off and i put the zetec one on.......simple swap of ring gears......

uh oh....you didn't change out the pinion gear?

trevor (fastcougar) said that with later MTX-75's (2001-2002) i didnt need to worry about the pinion gear.

i dont know if it brings anything else up, but when my dad and i pushed the car in and out of the driveway, it was EXTREMELY difficult. like it took four of us to push the car out of the driveway and into the garage, and all of us were trying really hard to push it.

Yikes, my driveway is sloped and I have pushed my car up it with somewhat ease..... all by myself

Originally posted by Instigator:
trevor (fastcougar) said that with later MTX-75's (2001-2002) i didnt need to worry about the pinion gear.

i dont know if it brings anything else up, but when my dad and i pushed the car in and out of the driveway, it was EXTREMELY difficult. like it took four of us to push the car out of the driveway and into the garage, and all of us were trying really hard to push it.

.

I am not positive but i would "guess" that all the MTX75's would need to have the pinion gear replaced along with the ring gear.

I am thinking you need to crack that casing back open and see if you have messed up either the ring or pinion gears. And if not...put the stock ring gear back in it! The Zetec FD doesn't really do that much good...your not gonna have traction either way. You'll just be shiftin' gears a little faster

Originally posted by 99cougar:

Originally posted by Instigator:
trevor (fastcougar) said that with later MTX-75's (2001-2002) i didnt need to worry about the pinion gear.

i dont know if it brings anything else up, but when my dad and i pushed the car in and out of the driveway, it was EXTREMELY difficult. like it took four of us to push the car out of the driveway and into the garage, and all of us were trying really hard to push it.

.

I am not positive but i would "guess" that all the MTX75's would need to have the pinion gear replaced along with the ring gear.

I am thinking you need to crack that casing back open and see if you have messed up either the ring or pinion gears. And if not...put the stock ring gear back in it! The Zetec FD doesn't really do that much good...your not gonna have traction either way. You'll just be shiftin' gears a little faster

Umm YEAH! I can't see any way for the ring gear from a the zetec (3.83:1 IIRC) to mate up to the teeth on the 4.06:1 pinion gear!

Wow. Well as long as you have your old FD, just crack it back open and swap out the ring gear to the one that was designed for that pinion.
I suppose if you didn't drive it anywhere it may be okay still but in the worst case, you may need a new ring and pinion set.

You never mentioned this before

Also, this may be why everything on your clutch looked just fine.

Originally posted by Instigator:
trevor (fastcougar) said that with later MTX-75's (2001-2002) i didnt need to worry about the pinion gear.

....is the wrong answer!!!!On ANY FDR change on an MTX75 you MUST change the pinion/pinion shaft assy when you do an FDR change......Which again is why I say the parts list info on the transaxle site is a load of bunk and is all wrong. Anyone following it will get in deep s**t trying to do an FDR change....period!!!

The owner needs to establish if his trans has a '2 piece' or '3 Piece' output shaft assy. Only then can it be established the route he must go to effect a ratio change.This is complex s**t, if you have an early 2
piece shaft then it's even more complex and,in most
cases, beyond the ability of the average home DIY'er......I've done it a 100 times and trust me, without a shop and the know how on what parts can be mixed & matched and those that can't you have no chance of getting it right. Just my 2 cents for the masses!

Originally posted by 99cougar:

I am not positive but i would "guess" that all the MTX75's would need to have the pinion gear replaced along with the ring gear.

[TH rant]...well no s**t!...must be rocket science to 'count' ring gear teeth and use your brain to work out that both the diff and output shaft with the pinion are in FIXED POSITIONS in the case and a ratio change MUST have both the ring gear AND the new output shaft with pinion...I'd read the Ford CD if I were you!!!

thats what i figured. i guess that explains why it took 4 people to push the car in and out of the driveway. and i guess this explains why the car wouldnt move when i tried to drive it.

thanks guys

[TH]...now we can guess what damage has been done to the FDR gear by taking the vehicle weght on gear teeth that are mis-matched!!!....I'd do a LOT more research before you attempt an FDR change....Read a lot more before you pick up wrenches!!!FWIW we ALWAYS do 'meshing checks' on a special..'open sided' dummy set of cases in these situations.....and the part # list for such a conversion is...VAST!...so don't trust your dealer/parts dept to know what 'bits' you need...they won't!!!!!

dont worry, im about to pu the stock 4.06 back on there. hopefully this problem will be solved.

I don't know that this is your best solution at this point. You really need to inspect your pinion to verify any damage done when pushing the car around. Basically you were in effect stripping one of the gears to get the car to movbe with unequal tooth count pieces. My guess is that you should probably look into replacing the entire pinion/FD assembly with either the zetec as you originally wanted or the stock 4.06 ratio and not reuse an abused part in your formula. Do you really want to invest the time and effort into tearing down the car again if you break something in the trans because you didn't replace it?

Speaking as someone who has pulled and reinstalled engines numerous times in a forced induction contour, I surely wouldn't want that. My time is worth a lot more than the couple hundred the new parts will cost. Take it as an expensive lesson learned and go for it the right way this time.

Rick

Originally posted by todras:
[TH]...now we can guess what damage has been done to the FDR gear by taking the vehicle weght on gear teeth that are mis-matched!!!....I'd do a LOT more research before you attempt an FDR change....Read a lot more before you pick up wrenches!!!FWIW we ALWAYS do 'meshing checks' on a special..'open sided' dummy set of cases in these situations.....and the part # list for such a conversion is...VAST!...so don't trust your dealer/parts dept to know what 'bits' you need...they won't!!!!!

Wow, pretty passionate about your stance? I guess not everyone was born with a wrench in their hand, or had to learn the hard way. I don't know Instigator's financial situation, but maybe he isn't worried about this whole ordeal? I never heard him b!tch about people telling him the wrong info, or that he couldn't afford to do things right. Looks like he gave it a shot, and some things didn't work out. Maybe give him a break?

Mark

Mark,

Terry's real point is that you need to research and learn/read for yourself and not take "common" knowledge at face value. Basically if you get free advice, you get what you pay for. Terry's harping on this instance as just another in a line of mishaps, etc that befall alot of the DIYers because there is so much conflicting info out there and they don't take the time to do their own research and learning. Yes mistakes happen and yes we've all made them, but when you get the chance to help others hopefully learn by telling them they need to read, etc, you've gotta take the opportunity even if it comes across as kicking you while you're down. Shoot, I've made many costly and easily avoidable mistakes on my car and I've taken crap for it and gotten sympathy for it, no different here.

Rick

Originally posted by todras:

Originally posted by 99cougar:

I am not positive but i would "guess" that all the MTX75's would need to have the pinion gear replaced along with the ring gear.

[TH rant]...well no s**t!...must be rocket science to 'count' ring gear teeth and use your brain to work out that both the diff and output shaft with the pinion are in FIXED POSITIONS in the case and a ratio change MUST have both the ring gear AND the new output shaft with pinion...I'd read the Ford CD if I were you!!!

Damn...you make it sound like it was me that did it

.

1) i wouldn't put the zetec FD in my car.
2) i wouldn't do it myself sicne i don't have a press.
3) i would have made sure i needed the pinion also.

Hey Instigator...it's ok. It's just more money if the pinion gear is messed up. ONE DAY this project will be done...and when it is i am making a trip to Tampa

I hate to be a dick, but I remember checking out this guys cardomain page and I saw his zetec FD swap. And I was thinking to myself...I know it's not that easy...

Originally posted by Y2KSVT:

Wow, pretty passionate about your stance? I guess not everyone was born with a wrench in their hand, or had to learn the hard way. I don't know Instigator's financial situation, but maybe he isn't worried about this whole ordeal? I never heard him b!tch about people telling him the wrong info, or that he couldn't afford to do things right. Looks like he gave it a shot, and some things didn't work out. Maybe give him a break?

Mark

Or he could have saved a lot of time and $ and sent it off to be done correctly. Now he has to mess with pulling it out and opening it up. Also spend on replacing farked parts. How many people on here don't listen and think they can fix/build anything? A lot. And how many come back after not doing thourough research and have a major cluster fu[k? A lot. People need to reassess abilities. Some thing are difficult and should only be done by those with experience with tools. Speaking of tools... at what point did you turn into one? When Stazi, Rick and I send the trans out for work we do that should tell people something. Whenever I post Terry's take you get your panties in a bunch like you have a personal vendeta against him. It gets real f'n old. You don't talk this way in person so why on a car forum. Would you say the same things to Terry's face at SZ if he came? Doubt it. If you don't like it STFU and move on. You know he he comes off in type. He tells it like it is like myself. Foreplay is for pu$$ies.[rant off]

Originally posted by todras:

Originally posted by Y2KSVT:

Wow, pretty passionate about your stance? I guess not everyone was born with a wrench in their hand, or had to learn the hard way. I don't know Instigator's financial situation, but maybe he isn't worried about this whole ordeal? I never heard him b!tch about people telling him the wrong info, or that he couldn't afford to do things right. Looks like he gave it a shot, and some things didn't work out. Maybe give him a break?

Mark

Or he could have saved a lot of time and $ and sent it off to be done correctly. Now he has to mess with pulling it out and opening it up. Also spend on replacing farked parts. How many people on here don't listen and think they can fix/build anything? A lot. And how many come back after not doing thourough research and have a major cluster fu[k? A lot. People need to reassess abilities. Some thing are difficult and should only be done by those with experience with tools. Speaking of tools... at what point did you turn into one? When Stazi, Rick and I send the trans out for work we do that should tell people something. Whenever I post Terry's take you get your panties in a bunch like you have a personal vendeta against him. It gets real f'n old. You don't talk this way in person so why on a car forum. Would you say the same things to Terry's face at SZ if he came? Doubt it. If you don't like it STFU and move on. You know he he comes off in type. He tells it like it is like myself. Foreplay is for pu$$ies.[rant off]

You obviously missed my entire point! Point is, Instigator didn't come on here blaming you, or Terry, or anyone for HIS mistake! If he was pissed at you guys, I'd see there be a reason for you to give him sh!t. He asked a "hypothetical question" because he wants to fix HIS mistake. If someone doesn't want to read what has been posted, then let them figure it out on their own, it's obviously what they wanted to do anyways by not taking your advice in the first place. As for me having something against Terry, think again. I've recommended him several times over on SVTP, as his name isn't as recognized as it is here. I just think some people could take a step back and look at how they're acting to a guy that has done nothing but ask a simple question. Again, it was his mistake, and he knows he has to pay for it. Kicking him while he's down wasn't exactly necessary. Like I said though, not everyone has been wrenching on cars their whole life, and maybe this is just something he wants to learn on. Mistakes are only going to make him better/stronger. As for in person, nobody gave me a reason to go off on a tangent in the couple of meets that I've seen you at. I'm a nice guy until I have a reason not to be. Anyways, I didn't even realize that you were speaking for Terry in that post until after the fact. You usually italicize his quotes. Don't take everything to heart Todd, it's the intraweb!

Mark

P.S. I met Terry at Spring Zing and he seemed like a nice guy. Why is it I'm getting called out for being an dick? All I did was stick up for the original poster.

It's just that we know the REAL you Mark

Originally posted by Buckshot77:
It's just that we know the REAL you Mark

Ok, no more Bill Badskins for me today.

I guess it comes with my job.

Mark

a blooming gay relationship right in front us, how sweet!

Originally posted by RTStabler51:
a blooming gay relationship right in front us, how sweet!

That's not what your Dad.... er..... your Mom said!

Mark

Aight guys, no need to get angry. Todras, thank you for your insight.....i thought the drive swap was going to be simple......again, all i thought it was was a easy "ring gear" swap. obviously i was wrong. and i have to pay for it.

i have done a lot of research. and something got over-looked. sh!t happens i guess.

my first mistake was not knowing a lot about transmissions and how they work. the 2nd was not using what commom sense i had left and knowing that changing the ring gear would indeed entitle the changing of the pinion gear

my mistake.

ive been apart of CEG and NECO long enough not to get upset when people make harsh remarks at stuff that i say. i see it so often and i even take apart in harsh remarks, so ones given at my qestions/comments are taken lightly. I will listen to any and all constructive criticisms, no matter how harsh they might sound.

but back on top, the pinion gear has no visible damage.

does anybody know who happens to have a spare i can take off their hands? my 3rd mistake was trashing m orig. 4.06

Originally posted by Instigator:

does anybody know who happens to have a spare i can take off their hands? my 3rd mistake was trashing m orig. 4.06

Terry has a ton of them. secondline at ameritech.net

thanks i sent him an e-mail....hopefully i can get one by monday

Terry is GREAT!!!!

he just gave me a 4.06 ring gear!!!

dealers wanted $225 and bill J couldnt beat $160

sent terry and e-mail and he got me one here today! of course shipping raped me but hey i got the part for free!

thanks terry

Originally posted by Instigator:
Terry is GREAT!!!!

he just gave me a 4.06 ring gear!!!

dealers wanted $225 and bill J couldnt beat $160

sent terry and e-mail and he got me one here today! of course shipping raped me but hey i got the part for free!

thanks terry

Props to him for that.

Originally posted by warmonger:

Originally posted by Instigator:
Terry is GREAT!!!!

he just gave me a 4.06 ring gear!!!

dealers wanted $225 and bill J couldnt beat $160

sent terry and e-mail and he got me one here today! of course shipping raped me but hey i got the part for free!

thanks terry

Props to him for that.

Could be my old ring gear. I just got a zetec FD installed in my tranny.

Originally posted by warmonger:

Originally posted by Instigator:
Terry is GREAT!!!!

he just gave me a 4.06 ring gear!!!

dealers wanted $225 and bill J couldnt beat $160

sent terry and e-mail and he got me one here today! of course shipping raped me but hey i got the part for free!

thanks terry

Props to him for that.

Indeed.