Question about checks(banking)

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Who here is a banking expert? A girl I know had a joint checking account with her now ex-fiance. They are working on separating all of their accounts. He wrote some checks, and while they were in the mail, went and opened up his own personal account, transferred ALL of the money in their joint account, into his personal account, and took his name off of their joint account. So a few days later, those checks come back NSF, leaving her with ~$150 in fees, that she wants HIM to obviously pay for.

So my questions:
1)Don't they need both people's signatures to take a name off of a joint account? Should they just open up another account and transfer the money without consulting her?

2)Shouldn't they still hold him responsible, as the checks that he sent out had HIS name on them as well? Couldn't they just debit his account for these fees?

3)Does she have any recourse in this, or is she stuck with just paying the fees?

Please only answer if you are in the banking field, and know more about this. Thanks!

Mark

Originally posted by Y2KSVT:

Please only answer if you are in the banking field, and know more about this.

Awwww man, you're no fun.

Originally posted by Y2KSVT:
So my questions:
1)Don't they need both people's signatures to take a name off of a joint account? Should they just open up another account and transfer the money without consulting her?

2)Shouldn't they still hold him responsible, as the checks that he sent out had HIS name on them as well? Couldn't they just debit his account for these fees?

3)Does she have any recourse in this, or is she stuck with just paying the fees?
Mark

I've been in the banking industry for 13+ years now. I've seen the scenario you described many times. Unfortunately, he was must have been the joint owner (second on the account) Otherwise he couldn't have just removed his own name. With that said, she's the primary, thereby fully responsible for what occurs with the account. That includes any activities perpertrated by the former joint owner. The bank is under no obligation to go after him for the fees since the checks attempted to clear on the account that now only has her name on it. Her only choice for recourse is to pay the fees or file a claim in small claims court for this situation. I wish I could give you better news.

Hey no problem at all! I was just looking for the right answer, not necessarily the answer the she would like to hear. Looks like she'll just have to chalk this one up to experience!

Mark

Originally posted by Y2KSVT:
Hey no problem at all! I was just looking for the right answer, not necessarily the answer the she would like to hear. Looks like she'll just have to chalk this one up to experience!

Mark

True.

hey look at it this way...she has to pay $150 to be rid of him.

Depending on what happened on purchases, payments, debts, leases, utilities, and how they shared incomes, what they did jointly, and details of "I'll cover this for you while you cover that for us" (was the house or new car or 60" TV in his name while she made the payments on it, etc.), she MAY have all kinds of recourse against him for MORE than just the fees on the checks he wrote.

So how much of "her" money did he grab and move into "his" separate account? Is any real property involved? Is this checking account story only part of how he screwed her over financially?

MANY states have case law treating break ups of domestic partnerships like divorces with equitable division of property and debts.

IF there are bigger legal issues here, then "Mr. I'm So Clever, I Bet Nobody Ever Tried This Stunt Before" set himself up to get CREAMED. Will this jerk get ANY slack from a judge or court arbitrator?

Forget looking for a banker. Look for consultations with dom rel lawyers instead.

Yeah! get this asz hoe!

Originally posted by PDXSVT:
Depending on what happened on purchases, payments, debts, leases, utilities, and how they shared incomes, what they did jointly, and details of "I'll cover this for you while you cover that for us" (was the house or new car or 60" TV in his name while she made the payments on it, etc.), she MAY have all kinds of recourse against him for MORE than just the fees on the checks he wrote.

So how much of "her" money did he grab and move into "his" separate account? Is any real property involved? Is this checking account story only part of how he screwed her over financially?

MANY states have case law treating break ups of domestic partnerships like divorces with equitable division of property and debts.

IF there are bigger legal issues here, then "Mr. I'm So Clever, I Bet Nobody Ever Tried This Stunt Before" set himself up to get CREAMED. Will this jerk get ANY slack from a judge or court arbitrator?

Forget looking for a banker. Look for consultations with dom rel lawyers instead.

I don't think it's that serious.

MAYBE he was a "nice" asshat and only screwed her over "a little." But since he's OK with cleaning out their checking account and leaving her with the NSFs (Do you know how many more checks have not finished bouncing yet?), you can go ahead and assume this is no big thing. One almost-spouse stealing the other almost-spouse's money is never serious. Right?

If they had any joint credit cards, she'd better check NOW to see if they were maxed out. Did he do address change orders with the Post Office, banks, car loan company, gasoline cards, other credit institutions? What other messes/surprises did he leave for her and how long will it take the full news of those potential surprises to get to her?

Yeah, she's got ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to consider here because he is SOOOO trustworthy and stuff like the worst case scenarios NEVER happen.

If you agree, might you care to buy some ocean front property in Nebraska?

This is why you keep your money separate.

KoKo is right, though.

All very good points.

It may not be worth it financially to go after this guy, costing more than the $150 in NSF charges.

However, isn't is check fraud to write checks that you know will not clear.

HIS name is on the checks that didn't clear. So isn't this guy comitting an act of fraud if he writes the checks and then clears the account?

Seems the evidence would be there. The banks have the checks, and if any of them were processed electronically, you would have the exact times the checks were submitted and could compare that with the time he cleared out the account.

I would imagine the bank would be interested in someone trying to perpetrate a fraud.

I know the first time my now ex-wife wrote a check on "my" account (We each had accounts, and were co-owners on each others primary accounts) during her affair, she bounced the check, and I closed that account since I couldn't remove her from the account. Since it was a negative balance, I paid the difference, the bank waived the fees given the situation and my longstanding relationship with them, and opened a new account, new debit card, etc.

Done.

She was off the credit cards, save the $400 limit gas card, etc.

I would go back to the bank and take your evidence, your statement will tell when the checks were presented and when ex-fiance presented himself to clean out the account and ask them if they like being a party to fraud?

I would not settle for less than the NSF charges being dropped and if they want to go after him, she would be willing to cooperate fully with the bank.

Otherwise, there are plenty of banks who do want her business, and perhaps the $150 was cheap tuition in the school of life, and a new bank would appreciate her business even more.

Originally posted by PDXSVT:
MAYBE he was a "nice" asshat and only screwed her over "a little." But since he's OK with cleaning out their checking account and leaving her with the NSFs (Do you know how many more checks have not finished bouncing yet?), you can go ahead and assume this is no big thing. One almost-spouse stealing the other almost-spouse's money is never serious. Right?

If they had any joint credit cards, she'd better check NOW to see if they were maxed out. Did he do address change orders with the Post Office, banks, car loan company, gasoline cards, other credit institutions? What other messes/surprises did he leave for her and how long will it take the full news of those potential surprises to get to her?

Yeah, she's got ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to consider here because he is SOOOO trustworthy and stuff like the worst case scenarios NEVER happen.

If you agree, might you care to buy some ocean front property in Nebraska?

I'll say it again. I don't think it's that serious. As for your advice PDX it's great, from a lawyer's standpoint. Which is from what I remember, your profession.

Originally posted by ZoomZoom Diva:
This is why you keep your money separate.

KoKo is right, though.

Thanks Diva.

The bottomline is this. It would cost you FAR too much time and effort to go after the guy legally. The bank won't assist you because they consider it too petty. It's a victimless crime. Everyday business for the bank. It sucks that it happend to your gf, but like you said, chalk it up as experience.

Well there's more to it, as any break-up would have. I was mainly concerned with this part of it. He's changed the locks to the house(as I would do the same), but he won't allow her to pickup HER computer, and a bunch of other stuff that she couldn't get with her initial move. He's just being difficult, because she was the one that wanted out of the deadend relationship.

As for theie banking accounts, they decided to split the money that was in the checking account. She withdrew her portion, and then he wrote checks with what he had left. He knew that he could take his name off of the account, move the remaining funds into his personal checking, and leave those checks outstanding, to bounce and come back on her. He also transferred 100% of the savings account into his name, and isn't giving her any of it. That's another story though. She's just too passive/nice to go after him.

Mark

I would think that preventing her from getting her personal property is a crime as well as the check fraud.

It wouldn't hurt to file a police report, to have the complaint on record.

Or perhaps having a registered letter sent indicating that she believes certain property, enumerated in the letter, such as her computer, and specific damages, such as NSF fees, cost of new checks for new account, etc, are due her.

It may be worth an hour of a good lawyers time to learn what her options are.

Or, perhaps a call to the local DA or PD?

You never know.