Parents charge son with theft, dies in custody

Originally posted by IRingTwyce:
You beat me to my post! I agree completely!

as do i. god forbid parents actually try to force some sense into their kids heads.

Originally posted by 1314:
I've seen plenty of kids whose parents should have taken their actions that serious. I don't think its ridiculous at all for the parents.

The law enforcement agency is responsible for the well being of those in their custody.

I agree. I'm all for parents charging their kids with crimes. I tell you what, in my house my kid would rather have the police to deal with them than have me deal with them for real.

Besides, how were the parents to know that they'd KILL the kid? I'm sure they're feeling really bad right now. Like they sent him to a death sentence.

Originally posted by Kokopellian:
I'm sure they're feeling really bad right now. Like they sent him to a death sentence.

as they should! they DID send him to a death sentence. granted, they didn't know it at the time. who the [censored] sends there kid to jail and refuses to bail them out over a borrowed car? dumbass parents, that's who.

and boy am i sorry for any of your people's children. he borrowed the car without asking (stealing?). it's not like he went on a seven state joy ride and never brought it back. relying on law enforcement to dicipline your children is flat out retarded. people that do so should not be allowed to reproduce (idiots breed idiots).

~Andrew

Originally posted by Pimpalicious316:
he borrowed the car without asking (stealing?). it's not like he went on a seven state joy ride and never brought it back.

"Borrowing" without asking is stealing. Plain and simple. His actions after the fact (not going on a seven state joy ride) don't excuse the theft, nor do they make the theft acceptable. Did the parents over react? Possibly, maybe not. We don't know if the kid was a problem child or if this was an isolated incident. Doesn't matter. The parents chose a course of punishment that you obviously wouldn't, but it was legal and possibly their only recourse at this point. Regardless, no one taken into custody by law enforcement should fear for their life. The blame here lies soley and squarely on the LE entity.

well unfortunately we don't know the past history of the child. Maybe the parents failed to discipline the kid early on, and now he was out of control (not like crazy out of control, but no response to the authority of his parents). I doubt many parents would call the cops on their kid for a one-time thing, he had probably been given many warnings and this was an attempt to smack some sense/fear into him.

I agree it's sad, but if the parents can't handle their kid, it's time to call someone who can.

Originally posted by IRingTwyce:

Originally posted by Pimpalicious316:
he borrowed the car without asking (stealing?). it's not like he went on a seven state joy ride and never brought it back.

"Borrowing" without asking is stealing. Plain and simple. His actions after the fact (not going on a seven state joy ride) don't excuse the theft, nor do they make the theft acceptable. Did the parents over react? Possibly, maybe not. We don't know if the kid was a problem child or if this was an isolated incident. Doesn't matter. The parents chose a course of punishment that you obviously wouldn't, but it was legal and possibly their only recourse at this point. Regardless, no one taken into custody by law enforcement should fear for their life. The blame here lies soley and squarely on the LE entity.

i borrowed my mothers car quite a few times without asking. when i got home she just asked where i had gone. we had this weird thing called a GOOD PARENT/CHILD RELATIONSHIP. she trusted me and i never did anything to break that trust. now, i realize no one knows the full extent of the story or what had happened. maybe the kid deserved the cops called on him and jail time. but i am going with innocent until proven guilty theory. since i don't have any reason to believe otherwise, the kid gets the benefit of the doubt in my mind and the parents [censored] up in their actions.

~Andrew

Originally posted by Pimpalicious316:
as they should! they DID send him to a death sentence. granted, they didn't know it at the time. who the [censored] sends there kid to jail and refuses to bail them out over a borrowed car? dumbass parents, that's who.

and boy am i sorry for any of your people's children. he borrowed the car without asking (stealing?). it's not like he went on a seven state joy ride and never brought it back. relying on law enforcement to dicipline your children is flat out retarded. people that do so should not be allowed to reproduce (idiots breed idiots).

~Andrew

how good it must feel to armchair quarterback from the comfort of your desk chair.

you know NOTHING about the situation other that what has been reported, yet you easily cast judgement. as has been said, you don't know the kids past history. i find it unlikely that the parents went to that extreme after a single incident. but even if they did, it's certainly not their fault the kid got killed. if we used your reasoning, every parent who's kid committed suicide after a parent yelled at them is at fault too.

i can't get over how quickly you pass judgement on a situation that you once again know little about.

Originally posted by Pimpalicious316:

Originally posted by IRingTwyce:

Originally posted by Pimpalicious316:
he borrowed the car without asking (stealing?). it's not like he went on a seven state joy ride and never brought it back.

"Borrowing" without asking is stealing. Plain and simple. His actions after the fact (not going on a seven state joy ride) don't excuse the theft, nor do they make the theft acceptable. Did the parents over react? Possibly, maybe not. We don't know if the kid was a problem child or if this was an isolated incident. Doesn't matter. The parents chose a course of punishment that you obviously wouldn't, but it was legal and possibly their only recourse at this point. Regardless, no one taken into custody by law enforcement should fear for their life. The blame here lies soley and squarely on the LE entity.

i borrowed my mothers car quite a few times without asking. when i got home she just asked where i had gone. we had this weird thing called a GOOD PARENT/CHILD RELATIONSHIP. she trusted me and i never did anything to break that trust . now, i realize no one knows the full extent of the story or what had happened. maybe the kid deserved the cops called on him and jail time. but i am going with innocent until proven guilty theory. since i don't have any reason to believe otherwise, the kid gets the benefit of the doubt in my mind and the parents [censored] up in their actions.

~Andrew

Except taking the car without permission. Violation of trust right there in my book.

If your parents respect and trust you(or anyone for that matter) enough to loan you their car you should have enough respect to ask first.
If you're going to roll the dice you should be prepared to pay the price. Not with your life but a trip to jail is defiantly in the realm is possibility.

Originally posted by MxRacer:

Originally posted by Pimpalicious316:
as they should! they DID send him to a death sentence. granted, they didn't know it at the time. who the [censored] sends there kid to jail and refuses to bail them out over a borrowed car? dumbass parents, that's who.

and boy am i sorry for any of your people's children. he borrowed the car without asking (stealing?). it's not like he went on a seven state joy ride and never brought it back. relying on law enforcement to dicipline your children is flat out retarded. people that do so should not be allowed to reproduce (idiots breed idiots).

~Andrew

how good it must feel to armchair quarterback from the comfort of your desk chair.

you know NOTHING about the situation other that what has been reported, yet you easily cast judgement. as has been said, you don't know the kids past history. i find it unlikely that the parents went to that extreme after a single incident. but even if they did, it's certainly not their fault the kid got killed. if we used your reasoning, every parent who's kid committed suicide after a parent yelled at them is at fault too.

i can't get over how quickly you pass judgement on a situation that you once again know little about.

Pimp, speaking as a parent (my son is only 2.5 years old though), and also having seen my brothers and sister do the same thing to my mother. Sometimes the police need to be called. Especially if a crime has been committed. Borrowing the car you call it? It's stealing, period. I guess if he had "borrowed" money out of the mom's purse it would have been okay too? Your situation coming up was entirely different. Sounds like you had a great relationship with your mom. My mother raised us by herself. She was a disciplinarian but, teens tend to rebel and do what they want when they want. Just because it's the parent that's falling victim to the crime doesn't mean it's not a crime. Say the kid stole the family friend's car, would that be different? Kids have to be taught that there are consequences to their actions. Also, I've seen the type of behavior that the teen in the story exhibited first hand. I can tell you, it was NO picnic for my mother to call the cops on her kids. To this day she still pains over the decision. I'm sure it's the same for any good parent. They're not "relying" on the law to discipline their kids at all in these type of situations.

Originally posted by MxRacer:

Originally posted by Pimpalicious316:
as they should! they DID send him to a death sentence. granted, they didn't know it at the time. who the [censored] sends there kid to jail and refuses to bail them out over a borrowed car? dumbass parents, that's who.

and boy am i sorry for any of your people's children. he borrowed the car without asking (stealing?). it's not like he went on a seven state joy ride and never brought it back. relying on law enforcement to dicipline your children is flat out retarded. people that do so should not be allowed to reproduce (idiots breed idiots).

~Andrew

how good it must feel to armchair quarterback from the comfort of your desk chair.

you know NOTHING about the situation other that what has been reported, yet you easily cast judgement. as has been said, you don't know the kids past history. i find it unlikely that the parents went to that extreme after a single incident. but even if they did, it's certainly not their fault the kid got killed. if we used your reasoning, every parent who's kid committed suicide after a parent yelled at them is at fault too.

i can't get over how quickly you pass judgement on a situation that you once again know little about.

why did you even bother coming back here?

if i am not mistaken, you passed judgement aswell, simply in the other direction. you immediately assumed it WASN'T the parents fault and cast judgement to the child for being killed. he would not have been in that situation had the parents not sent him there. it is THEIR fault he is dead, and i am glad that they must live with that decision for the rest of their lives.

now go ahead and feed the argument that the parents wouldn't have sent him there had he not borrowed the car. go ahead, i'll wait...

insert arguement here

great, wonderful, fantastic. the kid made a bad choice. it is a parent's responsibility to help guide their children to the right path. allowing law enforcement to punish him instead of doing it themselves lead to his death. end of story. no argument for that fact. should we all be killed for making a small mistake in judgement? i certainly hope not

.

and [censored] you on the suicide comment. killing yourself and being killed because of your parent's actions are totally different.

now, go ahead and come up with some other ridiculous way to twist things and come up with another illogical comparison...

~Andrew

Originally posted by Kokopellian:

Pimp, speaking as a parent (my son is only 2.5 years old though), and also having seen my brothers and sister do the same thing to my mother. Sometimes the police need to be called. Especially if a crime has been committed. Borrowing the car you call it? It's stealing, period. I guess if he had "borrowed" money out of the mom's purse it would have been okay too? Your situation coming up was entirely different. Sounds like you had a great relationship with your mom. My mother raised us by herself. She was a disciplinarian but, teens tend to rebel and do what they want when they want. Just because it's the parent that's falling victim to the crime doesn't mean it's not a crime. Say the kid stole the family friend's car, would that be different? Kids have to be taught that there are consequences to their actions. Also, I've seen the type of behavior that the teen in the story exhibited first hand. I can tell you, it was NO picnic for my mother to call the cops on her kids. To this day she still pains over the decision. I'm sure it's the same for any good parent. They're not "relying" on the law to discipline their kids at all in these type of situations.

i 100% respect that point of view. sometimes things get so out of hand, the police MUST be called. but we have NO evidence of that whatsoever. granted it seems stupid for the parents to get police involved for 1 incident, we have nothing else to go by. making assumptions is what i am trying to argue here. everyone is making assumptions in the negative direction (he had a bad history). i have no problem with a parent calling the police, but we only have knowledge of what we are told. he stole the car and they called the cops. seems a bit excessive to me. but what do i know, i'm just an armchair quarterback (my opinions and views dont matter).

~Andrew

Originally posted by Pimpalicious316:
why did you even bother coming back here?

why i'm here and what i do is absolutely none of your business. don't bring up non-material issues to aide in your argument. they don't help, and only make your position look even more weak.

Originally posted by Pimpalicious316:

if i am not mistaken, you passed judgement aswell, simply in the other direction. you immediately assumed it WASN'T the parents fault and cast judgement to the child for being killed. he would not have been in that situation had the parents not sent him there. it is THEIR fault he is dead, and i am glad that they must live with that decision for the rest of their lives.

now go ahead and feed the argument that the parents wouldn't have sent him there had he not borrowed the car. go ahead, i'll wait...

insert arguement here

what the hell are you talking about?????????????????

all i did was agree that it wasn't rediculous that the parents had the kid arrested. within the scope of the potential situations, it's a very plausible solution to a problem kid. i never said it was the best solution, and i NEVER said that it didn't lead to the kids death.

Originally posted by Pimpalicious316:

and [censored] you on the suicide comment. killing yourself and being killed because of your parent's actions are totally different.

i'd appreciate it if you wouldn't use that language with me.

it's a very valid comparison. both actions on the parents part lead to the same consequences, a dead child. and let me assure you, both situations have FAR more history that whatever you have read online from a friggin newspaper. again, you're casting judgement on a situation when you have no clue as to the history.

Originally posted by Pimpalicious316:

now, go ahead and come up with some other ridiculous way to twist things and come up with another illogical comparison...

~Andrew

nothing illogical about my comparisons. just because you don't like it, and it proves you wrong, doesn't make them illogical.

cry all you want, but the fact remains, you're casting judgement on people and situations you know little about.

keep blaming the parents instead of the people that committed the crime.

YOU'RE the MAN!!!!

Originally posted by MxRacer:

keep blaming the parents instead of the people that committed the crime.

YOU'RE the MAN!!!!

i'm going to take this one argument at a time so that maybe your retarded brain can compute.

how in the hell does a person killing themselves even remotely relate to a person being killed? they have the same result? so what...so does falling from a skyscraper and being shot in the chest.

and, answer...

~Andrew

Originally posted by Pimpalicious316:

Originally posted by MxRacer:

keep blaming the parents instead of the people that committed the crime.

YOU'RE the MAN!!!!

i'm going to take this one argument at a time so that maybe your retarded brain can compute.

i like the insults.

i'm not discussing this with you any further if you're going to be immature.

Originally posted by Pimpalicious316:
he would not have been in that situation had the parents not sent him there. it is THEIR fault he is dead, and i am glad that they must live with that decision for the rest of their lives.
~Andrew

Sorry, but that just isn't right at all. Whether you agree with the parents getting the police involved is one thing. But to think that the parents are at fault for the death of the kid while in police custody is ridiculous.

If I send my daughter on a plane to visit her grandfather and the plane goes down, is it my fault for sending her in the first place?

While I do agree that it was the law enforcement agencies job to ensure the child safety, and they are totally at fault for his death, I do not agree on the parents actions.

I did some stupid stuff when I was a kid, and I even got arrested because my mother called the cops on me. She did not, however, press charges and have me set to prison. The parents failed, whether it was prior to this by not giving him proper discipline, or this time by chosing prison for him. I don't care how bad a kid gets, prison at 17?!? For taking the car without permission?!? That's parents who got lazy, nothing more. They let the state do their parenting instead of handling it themselves. Control of a child is easy, you provide EVERYTHING. Simply cut them off, no money, no car (hello!? lock up the keys), stop buying soda for the house, cut off everything they know and love and take for granted. There's always a solution, parents have been dealing with kids forever, but proxy-parenting via the state is BS and a cop-out.

E1

Man MX things were too boring with you gone... and i happen to totally agree with you.
I can see people blaming the parents as the same ones who think spanking is a crime.
Pansy society has taken away the ability to punish a child and now blames the parents for using their only option left. Maybe they should have taken away his car priveledges so he would steal it again... i'm sure that would have worked.
I would have beaten him so hard he couldn't sit let alone drive a car.

Originally posted by Pimpalicious316:

Originally posted by MxRacer:

keep blaming the parents instead of the people that committed the crime.

YOU'RE the MAN!!!!

i'm going to take this one argument at a time so that maybe your retarded brain can compute.

how in the hell does a person killing themselves even remotely relate to a person being killed? they have the same result? so what...so does falling from a skyscraper and being shot in the chest.

and, answer...

~Andrew

I think a more apt comparison is JUMPING from a skyscraper, and being PUSHED.

Skyscraper = parents
Jumped = suicide
Pushed = beat to death

MX and I are saying that if the kid was pushed, it was the pusher that is to blame. According to your argument if the kid were pushed off the skyscraper, it would be the skyscraper's fault for allowing him to be pushed. MX was saying that according to your interpretation, if the kid jumped to his own death, it's still the skyscraper's fault, and the kid bears no responsibility for his own actions.

In your argument, if parents' actions result in a child committing suicide, then the parents are at fault. Your arguments take away ANY and ALL responsibility from the kid (near adult in this case, remember he was 17). It's a cop-out argument trying to place blame rather than accept responsibility.

COULD the parents have handled it differently? Most likely.
SHOULD they have handled it differently? Possibly. We don't know enough to answer that.
DID the parents kill their child? No.
DID the parents' actions cause their child to die? Again, no. Ultimately it was the teen's action that caused his own death. He didn't know that at the time any more than his parents knew he would die in police custody. He still committed the act that ultimately led to his death.

It is unfortunate that it ended this way. But I say again that it is in no way the parents' fault. Acusing them of causing his death is not only irresponsible and accusatory, it's highly insensitive and uncaring.

This is all related to the larger problem; The pussification of America

Originally posted by Barge:
This is all related to the larger problem; The pussification of America

This thread is done. Please PM each other, if you feel you must continue.