Do you want to know why Dave left? The reason isn't just because of CEG, as it's probably one of the better forums around for this stuff. Considering the supreme crap they stuffed in the contour, and how poorly put together the car was in the first place it's no wonder. Alot of the forums Dave frequents, like the Ranger forum, Chevytalk, Focaljet, etc... are full of people with too much money and absolutely no clue.

"What size are the front speakers in the tour" x eleventy billion... and that's just in one day... We were going to work on a sticky thread about possible speaker sizes, with links to bracket diagrams, and all that crap. But really why should we spend the hours doing that when nobody would look at that sticky topic first anyways? What happens is really good discussions get pushed off the forum within a couple days (usually on a weekend when all the people that have good input to the topic are on thier days off and doing something else) and are replaced with "Will these pioneer 5x7s work? How about these Alpine 5x7s?" Sure they are good questions, but if you would do a search, you will retrieve 4 billion pages of topics about 5x7s.

Start a serious thread about audio, and the topic is overwhelmed by idiots without a clue trying to make an argument even though they clearly have no idea. Usually when Dave corrects them, they refer to thier "buddy who works at an install shop" That gets old fast and it happens on a weekly basis.

Being told his information is recycled, which is true. Really if I read something written by an engineer about a product that he designs for a living, I just might try to remember that information. The thing is although it's recycled, he actually understands it, unlike most of the people arguing with him.

People ask for assistance selecting audio components for thier car. Dave spends a couple hours looing at stats and piecing the stuff together, putting up links, stats, etc...
The person then goes and buys the same overpriced crap everyone else does. Spends more, and gets less. Seriously, for less than $200 he talked me into a front stage that sounds better than anything I have ever heard. He also talked me into the Lambda PB15 which is also better sounding than anything I've heard in person. I think CEG is the only forum where people really take any of his advice, which wold explain CEG making up about 20% of Lambda's sales...

After spending all that time looking after another person's interests and leaving his suggestions keeping in mind budget, performance and tastes, there's always some idiot that pops on the forums and suggests something stupid. For instance, Dave may suggest a Brahma and a JBL 1200.1 for a good SPL/SQ setup. Minutes later someone else suggests a W7 and a JL 500/1. 90% of the time people will go with the W7 and JL amp because they are idiots.

Basically Dave left because he is tired of spending all his time helping complete idiots who don't accept his help anyways. He's just too polite to put it that way (really that's not a CEG problem though so don't get too upset) He probably figures he may as well be doing something else with his time.

Originally posted by Honkeytonk Monkey:

---

After spending all that time looking after another person's interests and leaving his suggestions keeping in mind budget, performance and tastes, there's always some idiot that pops on the forums and suggests something stupid. For instance, Dave may suggest a Brahma and a JBL 1200.1 for a good SPL/SQ setup. Minutes later someone else suggests a W7 and a JL 500/1. 90% of the time people will go with the W7 and JL amp because they are idiots.

---

While I agree with just about everything you (or Dave) said, this one I disagree with. Not that it doesn't happen, because I know it does, rather I disagree that this would be a reason to give up and leave. This same exact thing is happening in both Duratec Performance and Duratec Maintenance, as well as other forums (many of which I don't frequent). Yes, its frustrating; I know as I've been involved with a couple debates where I just want to smack someone for being stupid. I've seen people come to CEG and immediately blast away at long-time members (some pre-website) who are ASE certified and/or have taken the time to tear apart their engine/tranny and truly know how these cars function. I don't understand how some people can challenge common wisdom even after having been slapped upside the head with hard facts and test data, but they do.

However, leaving and letting these people overtake the forums is not the solution. I say, if someone wants to ignore the advice of a knowledgable veteran and be an idiot, let them. Just laugh at them when they do something stupid later on. I'm one member here who took Dave's advice very seriously and I myself purchased a PB-12 based on his recommendation. It was the smartest decision I ever made regarding audio in my Contour. I'm incredibly sad to see him go, but if that's his final decision, then so be it. I hope that eventually, being away from CEG for a while will allow him to return and carry on his role as our audio guru. I would truly hate for Dave to be regarded in the same vein as TH.