dilemma - need input - CEG Archives

Contour Enthusiasts Group Archives

well this is very interesting, last month I heard about a job openning at Pratt & Whitney and desided to submitt my resume. Well last week I heard back about it and got an interview. Last night I was sent an email saying that they would like me to meet with HR this weds, sounds like I have the job but here is the kicker, I come into work this morning and everyone has an email stating that there is now a no hire clause between UTC and Belcan in their new contract. It says that either company cannot solicity employees of the other company for a job and that you can't talk to the other company with out a managers approval. Now I think that I am ok since I was only notified about this this morning. I do believe that I just need to go and talk to my manager.

I guess I just need to suck it up and go talk to mangement ...

this sucks as I do not want to burn any bridges ...

Wait and see if you definitely have the job in the bag before you say ANYTHING to ANYONE.

If it turns out you have the job (offer in writing, etc), then get the wheels in motion to discuss leaving.

Besides, aren't you a contractor? I would think the rules don't really apply to you in this case.
And technically this is a new rule after you've already started interviewing.
Too bad, so sad for your current employer.
That's business, baby.

Originally posted by frenchblueC2:
Wait and see if you definitely have the job in the bag before you say ANYTHING to ANYONE.

If it turns out you have the job (offer in writing, etc), then get the wheels in motion to discuss leaving.

Besides, aren't you a contractor? I would think the rules don't really apply to you in this case.
And technically this is a new rule after you've already started interviewing.
Too bad, so sad for your current employer.
That's business, baby.

that is what most poeple I have spoken to have said, I see it as Belcan and UTC and different companies. Although it can be seen as an incompany transfer. The idea is that UTC does not come in and raid Belcan for engineers as then Belcan wouldn't be able to do their job. And I believe the increased demand for engineers has driven this.

Of course at this time I have not said anything to management about me possibly leaving. This is an oppurtunity that fell into my lap that I followed up on and it seems that is is going somewhere. I figured it would be as easy as just giving my two week notice but this would put a wrench in that.

I would just wait and see but according to the new policy I can't even speak to anyone with out approval.

Also my work is contracted to Hamilton Sundstrand, but I am employed by Belcan.

I will be asking the question about the effective data of the contract, as the new policy wouldn't take effect until the new contract between the companies begins. I am also going to ask that solicit be defined better, I read it as the company coming to an individual and saying they have a job for them, not an individual applying for a job with out being contacted by the company.

Dilemma!

Originally posted by Cueball:
Dilemma!

yeah yeah I can't spell, I know

ok , i may be stoopid, but how does P&W relate to UTC and Belcan?

either way, i say kim is right on this one(its about time she got something right, hehe)
confirm the job and then talk to management.

Originally posted by ElKy da Stalker:
ok , i may be stoopid, but how does P&W relate to UTC and Belcan?

either way, i say kim is right on this one(its about time she got something right, hehe)
confirm the job and then talk to management.

after speaking with someone who just did the same thing he said I can notify Belcan when I want. Also everyone seems to be saying the same thing, it is two different companies. It turns out this clause has been in the contract but I didn't know about it until this morning, it is just going to be enforced now. Pending the definition of solicite from the office I will just go forward with the HR meeting tomorrow, after all I sought out this job posting on my own.

Elky, UTC or United Technologies Corperation is the parent company, Pratt and Whitney, Hamilton Sundstrand, Otis Elevator, The Fuel Cell division, Sikorsky, etc are all part of UTC. All the groups use Belcan which is a company that provides outsourcing/contracting for UTC. Apparently last year Belcan lost 20 people to UTC were in the past it was only about 5 people per year, I know the company is looking out for their best interest but I have to also.

ahhh. i see.

my contract states that the company that i am working for (Rockwell) can not hire me until my contract expires.
i can't even apply for another position in the company (your situation kinda).
if the company wants to hire me i have to quit or be let go and cant be hired back on for a minimum of 3 months.

kinda sucks, because i have a 2088 hour contract (1 year and 1 day).
rockwell want to hire me on, there is a positon open that they want me to fill, but i will have to wait until november.
but if the position is filled by then i am out of luck.

well that is the sticking point, Belcan is its own corperation, I don't have a contract like that, in a employee hand book it states that emploer or employee can terminate employment at any time for any reason ... this all hinges on the definition of soliciting, I feel it means the company can not go into the other company and raid it for people, but that is not the case here, I sought out a job posting on the Pratt Web page and applied for it, I don't see that as soliciting, but it might be

Hamilton Sundstrand, it used to be called Hamilton Standard when I worked there back in 1989

. I agree with Kim don't rock the boat until P&W has a solid offer, if nothing comes about atleast no one knows

Originally posted by skunk:
Hamilton Sundstrand, it used to be called Hamilton Standard when I worked there back in 1989 . I agree with Kim don't rock the boat until P&W has a solid offer, if nothing comes about atleast no one knows .

that is my thought but it is appearent now that the person I interviewed with is now aware of the no hire policy, hence why he asked if I have, and my reply depending on how the definition of solicity turns out will be I don't see the need to notify/obtain Belcans approval since I sought out the job posting on my own. I will see what he says to that, if not I will talk to my manager today to get this straightened out.

Since you found the job on your own and Pratt didn't come after you there should be no problem and you should say nothing to Belcan until you have the other job. Treat as if Pratt was just another company. If something is brought up about it you have proff you did it on your own through emails. So they can't do anything. Also you are going to another division it isn't like you have had contact with them before. Don't say anything to Belcan it could possibly upset them and result in you losing your job now.

thanks all for the input, I am going to attempt to eat my lunch now, little streesed at the moment

plan now is to see what my contact says about my responce on I don't see why I need to say anything since I found the job on my own ...

well the office would not define solicity for me, so this sounds like a fine line to walk ... I sent my interviewer the not saying that I do not see the need for Belcan to be notified or for them to give approval since I sought out the job posting on my own. I didn't get a direct reply to this but I got the HR meeting set up ...

this sucks, since the policy says from here forward you need approval I feel I need to go say something but on 90% of peoples advice I shouldn't say anything ... I mean I feel in the clear because I only learned about this policy yesterday and I had already interviewed the week before, and submitted for the job a month ago ... I have felt sick to my stomach since yesterday morning ..

so the two throughts here are do the right thing or do what is best for me ...

I think you're already doing the right thing and what's best for you.

Originally posted by frenchblueC2:
I think you're already doing the right thing and what's best for you.

yeah I feel I am also but I still feel uncomfortable about it too ... well I will see what happens today and deal with the outcome tomorrow ... guess that is all that I can do at the moment since the policy is open to some debate depending on how it is read.

well it seems that my hands are tired, I can't get an offer until my site management approves it because of this clause in the contract between Belcan and UTC ...

Darn, I thought they might go that route. They are worried about a legal dispute with them, which could happen. The sad part is you didn't know of such a clause, well since this is the case you may be able to pich it to your company that you didn't know of the clause, that utc didn't approach you, you approuched themm seeking a change in your career for personal reasons. Say your it has nothing to do with them it is just something you want to do for yourself.

your company shouldn't view it has a direct violation of thier policy since utc did not try to steal you from them, which I believe is the bulk of their policy. It is truly a cowinsadental( I know I blew the spelling

, but you know what I mean). Utc shouldn't have to worry about the clause because they infact didn't approach you at all.

Also the email came after a the fact and you had this process in place before the email, which is easy to prove, so legally you should be grandfathered. The email should be from that date forward, they didn't say anything about retro active. If you still feel they are wrong and trying to block you, you could take legal action.

It really would be no different if they had no policy, learned of your intensions and created a policy to block your efforts. something to think about. If you stand your ground, and research the facts, your company may approve your move. Hey even if you have to get tough, which is hard to do, stand up for what you believe is right. I wish you the best of luck.

that is how I feel about this, maybe or may not be a problem is that this isn't a new policy, it is just being reiterated and being inforced now with the new contract, but again I had no previous knowledge of this clause and it isn't in my handbook so I am not in the wrong. Also in fact the email said from this point forward there is to be no contact without approval, and this is why I plan to bring it up today, I was contacted yesterday about them wanting to make an offer and now I have to bring it up since I didn't know about the clause before Tuesday and everything was done before Tuesday, I just received word last night