hey guys....i was wondering a few things about injecotrs...
1. what is the conversion rate of cc to pounds for injecotr sizes?
2. what is the biggest/ most efficient/ most power injector i can get for my t-28 sf turbo kit (the kit comes w/ 24# injectors) how big can i go?
.....thanx
you can go as big as you want, as long as you got a chip to tune for it.
bigger is not always better, you wanna pick a size that will be good for your power level, for example, you dont need 48# injectors on a stock N/A zetec.
One of the problems with going to big is the inability to tune for low rpm operation. 24# or 30# is probably what you want to stick with.
I am going to be using 36lb'ers. but also I am using the 3L with the T3/T4 turbo, you are going to be using the T28 with the 2.5L correct? If so I would just use the ones supplied with the SF kit... which I belive are 24lb'ers?
-Jeff-
I'm pretty sure you are getting 42's Jeff.
yes, i am getting 24# injectors with the sf kit.....does anyone know the conversion factor to cc's, or what my new injectors are in cc's?...thanx
Man just get your setup and get it running first. Than worry about upgrading. The SF kit comes with everything you need. Just relax
Originally posted by Keyser:
I'm pretty sure you are getting 42's Jeff.
42's are good with me! Hey Keyser have my pipes come back from getting polished yet? If so did you already ship the turbo kit? Thanks
-Jeff-
As far as I know the pipes are still out for polish.
24lb injectors will out perform the T28 turbo.
No need to upgrade them.
Originally posted by Keyser:
I'm pretty sure you are getting 42's Jeff.
That would be overkill for his setup. (ANY realistic setup really IMO)
Not only that but 42lbers would be horrible to tune for regular driving.
36lber's would be pretty large actually, but probably what I would go with if your plans are around 400 wheels or higher.
Tom is running 30's (IIRC 
) and was not very close to max duty cycle at his estimated 340-350FWHP. If they are 36's then I guess that was why he wasn't close. 
36#'rs
You are correct that I had plenty of fuel capability left.
If Ford motorsport made a 36# then we would be all set. But they don't. 19,24,30,42 and 120#.
Originally posted by Keyser:
If Ford motorsport made a 36# then we would be all set. But they don't. 19,24,30,42 and 120#.
Well obviously 36lbers are available. 
42lbers are going to be fun to tune at moderate load and below. Especially the idle circuit and off idle.
Originally posted by Keyser:
If Ford motorsport made a 36# then we would be all set. But they don't. 19,24,30,42 and 120#.
what kind of gains would i see with the 120# injectors?
can i run them without a chip?
Originally posted by Russell-3L:
Originally posted by Keyser:
If Ford motorsport made a 36# then we would be all set. But they don't. 19,24,30,42 and 120#.
what kind of gains would i see with the 120# injectors?
can i run them without a chip?
you could run them without a chip if your maf was calibrated for them
Originally posted by BStoneMega:
Originally posted by Russell-3L:
Originally posted by Keyser:
If Ford motorsport made a 36# then we would be all set. But they don't. 19,24,30,42 and 120#.
what kind of gains would i see with the 120# injectors?
can i run them without a chip?
you could run them without a chip if your maf was calibrated for them
out of curiosity, how much HP could 120# injectors support?
i bet just 1 120# injector would be more than enough for my engine
I don't know about now, but they made them SOMETIME in the past. My pro-m base calibration was for 36# injectors. Seems strange to me that they would make a special calibration for an uncommon injector. If you look on Pro-M's website you'll see several different setups for 36# injectors from the mustang world.
Well i hope the tuning is not to hard because i have some 50 lbs injectors sitting on my table to go in my car. Don't scare me with the idling theory i hate to look like an idiot with all this money tied up in the car and the sucker doesn't even run clean. But at least I won't have to worry about running lean..........
Originally posted by BurritaSVT:
Well i hope the tuning is not to hard because i have some 50 lbs injectors sitting on my table to go in my car. Don't scare me with the idling theory i hate to look like an idiot with all this money tied up in the car and the sucker doesn't even run clean. But at least I won't have to worry about running lean..........
You probably will have idiling issues, those injectors are probably not very efficient at delivering a good spray with a small amount of fuel. Sorry
So tell me how does Buckshot and Seawulf idle so well with 42lb injectors?
These are FWHP. The only ones that we have dyno proven are the 19's and 24's. It seems that if you multiply 11.25 by the injector # you get a close number. Not all are exact.
19# = 215 - 225
24# = 270 - 280
30# = 345 - 355
36# = 400 - 410
42# = 470 - 480
50# = 560 - 570
120# = 1345 - 1355
It is true that the larger injectors will spray more fuel than smaller injectors at the 'Normal' minimum pulse width. It is also true the very short pulse widths are not good for developing a good spray pattern and cause the fuel to come out in dribbles and droplets, therefore the atomization of the fuel is poorer and sometimes (esp. in cold weather) can result in a less than optimum idle and surely result in less clean idle emissions. However, that does not mean that the engine won't run reasonably well at idle. Consider also that some engine intake designs (tumble port) will create better idle speed atomization than others and may also not have problems.
So all I can really say is that it must be tested to see if very large injectors will work well or not.
Originally posted by Keyser:
These are FWHP. The only ones that we have dyno proven are the 19's and 24's. It seems that if you multiply 11.25 by the injector # you get a close number. Not all are exact.
19# = 215 - 225
24# = 270 - 280
30# = 345 - 355
36# = 400 - 410
42# = 470 - 480
50# = 560 - 570
120# = 1345 - 1355
ill take the 120s please 
also, couldnt the idle just be raised a bit with the larger injectors? like say a 1500 idle? im sure the little extra gas used would mean nothing to someone whos invested thousands into a sweet turbo setup anyways
Originally posted by Russell-3L:
Originally posted by Keyser:
These are FWHP. The only ones that we have dyno proven are the 19's and 24's. It seems that if you multiply 11.25 by the injector # you get a close number. Not all are exact.
19# = 215 - 225
24# = 270 - 280
30# = 345 - 355
36# = 400 - 410
42# = 470 - 480
50# = 560 - 570
120# = 1345 - 1355
ill take the 120s please
I AGREE
I don't mean to hijack this thread but I have a related question:
Straight out of an e-mail from kieth at streetflight to me:
Quote:
Hi Jeff:
Ford motersports does not make a 36 LB injector, at least one that they are willing to tell me about. They do however make a 39 LB. injector. Will that do?
I told him those would be okay... what do you guys think?
Also in other exciting news... from kieth...
Quote:
I am still waiting for your pipes to come back from the guy that makes them shinny. He should be done soon. I expect to ship your stuff late this week or early next week.
Keith
I am so anxious! I can't wait!
Also tom did you get my PM?
-Jeff-
No. I read it though.
Did you get mine?
39's are probably just fine.
Originally posted by warmonger:
No. I read it though.
Did you get mine?
39's are probably just fine.
But I thought 39# injectors were from the 03 Cobra,and 03 Cobra=Returnless, and 98 svt equals return. Anyone know.
Originally posted by livinsvt:
Originally posted by warmonger:
39's are probably just fine.
But I thought 39# injectors were from the 03 Cobra,and 03 Cobra=Returnless, and 98 svt equals return. Anyone know.
Swap injector clips. Fixed. Where's my cookie.
Is that true???
The Cobra uses 39lb injectors and they already have returnless hook ups. Cool... I bet you can find those for sale cheap... 
That peaked my interest.
The new Cobra does use 39lb returnless. Saw a set of 8 for $200 on Ebay (new)
Also saw those "rare"
36lb FMS injectors on e-bay too they were at $85 for 8. (used but looked great)
hmmmmmm...
Anyone have a set of 6 injector clips for the return style injectors??? I even have an extra set of returnless for trade maybe.
Yea there on there all day for that price. When you say "clips", you talking about the injector harness connectors. I can't picture what you talking about.
No, but I do have 2 return style clips, and 6 returnless clips! Maybe I could cough up all six and just give them to you when I do.
Originally posted by warmonger:
No, but I do have 2 return style clips, and 6 returnless clips! Maybe I could cough up all six and just give them to you when I do.
I already have 12 returnless clips.
6 currently being used even.
It was a tongue in cheek joke since I found 36lb FMS return style injectors.
At $100 that's half the price of the returnless 39's. Neither one I would ever max so...
...hence the comment.
So are there the return and returnless style clips? Those are the difference between the rectangle and oval?
does the 99 cougar ues a return ore returnless style fuel system and how does it work?
Early 99 Cougars use a return fuel system and the later models use returnless sytems.
The return system sends fuel up to the injectors and any left over is sent back in the return line.
With the returnless system the computer monitors everything and the exact amount of fuel is sent to the injectors without any left over.
Thats how I understand it anyway.
Sort of.
Think of it as a water main down a city block with 6 small taps off of it, in principle really. The water main doesn't recycle the fuel.
The return system was designed to help prevent fuel vaporlock and hard cold starts as was experienced with carburetors and mechanical diaphragm fuel pumps.
The return system constantly cycled fuel under pressure so that air was bled out and vapor lock couldn't form.
With really high fuel pressure vapor lock is pretty much a thing of the past. The returnless sytem does recirculate fuel and get rid of air bubbles down in the pump itself.