i know that you probablly can't hide all of it. but you can hide most of it. the sloenoids could probablly snuggle up under the throttle body somewheres, and then all you have are the supply lines which could pobably go covert under the intake piping. I think that there is plenty of room; there is quite a bit of space under the injectors, you just have to get creative.

come to think of it, does anybody know the measurements (i.e. height, size of threading, width, etc) of the fogger nozzles?

I have tried and have been unsucessful.... there isn't enough room between the 2 halves of the LIM... If you had a 3L UIM you may have enough room... do the front runners between, and the back runners from behind.... then you can hide the solenoids between the valve cover and firewall....

There is enough room if you change your way of thinking about the injector nozzles.

I already have a sketch of this....but I'll go ahead and let it out of the bag.

Suppose you used one Nitrous solenoid, but then you ran it into one larger tube made of...say copper or aluminum and ran it down the center of the LIM or close to it. Then you used equal length pieces of small diameter tubing and ran them from the large central tube to each intake port. Then you calculate the diameter of the jet you would like for each cylinder. (If you wanted a 75 shot then you would want about 12 HP shot per cylinder)
Once you know the size of the hole you get some steel wire that is the same size (guitar strings are steel and have many sizes). Stick it in the end of the small tube a good inch or so. At the end of the tubing you just hammer it flat with the steel wire still inside. Then you just use a pair of pliers to pull the wire out. Now you have a jet in the end of the tube that is the correct size. Then you file the edges so the diameter stays the same as the tubing was before hammering so that you can fit it into the hole you will drill into six of the ports in the LIM. Use some clips or zip ties to secure the main tube to the fuel rail. Bend the small tubes so that they enter the intake port through the hole just enough and at the right angle to inject the nitrous the best way.
Seal with silicon. Of COURSE you must have drilled the hole to be very close to the same size as the nitrous tubing.

Now, you have a direct port injected nitrous feed system tunable for any power amount and VERY CHEAPLY I might add!

You need to decide on a wet or dry system. For direct port I would recommend a wet system. This means you would tap a line from the fuel pressure test port on the regulator into a fuel solenoid.
Make another injection tree the same way in the correct ratio to add the right amount of fuel for the given amount of nitrous. You can search nitrous forums for the correct jet diameters of both fuel and nitrous.

Now the hard part. Activation.
The basic kit can be a NX wet kit that comes with various nitrous and fuel jets. You could use the jets that come with it as a safeguard, but don't use the nozzle of course. Just select jets form the next higher level of "shot" above what you want to run. This is just a backup in case you have a failure so you don't dump too much nitrous. Assume a 100 shot for the purposes of these jets since we are talking about a 75 shot. Pipe the fuel line with these 'primary jets' into a fittings that lead to the main tubes you just designed on each of your new multi-port injection setups. (don't make the lead in too long)
Now you get direct port injected nitrous that is hidden, cost effective and capable of being tuned exactly to your needs just by changing the diameter of the hole in your tubes.

Don't forget all the goodies like a fuel pressure cut-off switch, a bottle blanket and if you can afford it a control unit that allows you to smooth the onset of nitrous so you don't break anything in your drivetrain.


(some thoughts *The extra jetting isn't needed but just an afterthought. *At a minimum you need to make sure the system seals well. *I think copper works well with fuel, not sure about nitrous. It would probably be just fine. Copper would be the best metal for cost and workability as you can solder the smaller tubes onto the larger central tube and it is malleable but strong.
* start off small until the system proves to work so you don't damage the motor. It will be easy to change out tubes on an existing system then replace a motor.)

***Get it measured with a wideband and check it on the dyno!!!!


Have fun.

warmonger

Warmonger, you da man!!!

i was just thinking of using NOS nylon tubing, a distribution block, and thier typical fogger nozzles. The nylon is far more flexible than stainless or steel. I have seen a setup on a 4.6 mustang with the NOSzle system and the nylon almost makes a 90 degree bend right out of the nozzle. seems like it would make for a much more workable setup. not nearly as cheap true. but much less difficult to engineer Either way, i have two SE manifolds for practice and two SVT manifolds to play with. i still need to know how big the nozzles are though. anybody?

If you look at the size of the jets for the single nozzle system so you can get a good idea.
The fuel an air have to be in proportion to. Take the area of the jet and divide it by the number of cylinders. Then divide by PI, take the square root, then multiply by 2 to get back to a diameter of your 'theoretical' circle. This would be the size of the hole you need to drill the jet going into each cylinder.

warmonger 2 things....

you won't get proper atomization of the fuel becuase that happens in the nozzle, if you are running a common tube of n2o/fuel before the nozzles you'll never atomize... wet systems have nozzles with 2 ports, one for fuel, the other for n2o, this way the fuel gets atomized...

next the real problem, and that is physically getting a wet shot nozzle between the 2 halves of the manifold.... you don't have enough room.... now i havne't played with trying to mount them on an angle, but then you have far more problems to worry about as they are made to be mounted perpendicular to the mounting surface and into the air stream...

NOS may have a solution, however it would require a custom fuel rail... they are called NOSzles... bascially it's like the bottom of an injector with a straight through hole and 2 small inlets using NOSs flexible line (1 for fuel, other for n2o) it sits where you injector does, and your injector sits inside of it.... the deal is we have both sets of injectors running on 1 common rail, and doing this setup will comprimise the angle the injectors are set in the rail, thus needing a custom rail, or possibly 2 smaller custom rails... whatever the case you'll need to get that part made.... this setup may also alter/comprimize the injector spray pattern, but i don't have any info to warrant that argument either way....

only other solution is to make your own LIM with the nozzles built in....

Dude, this wasn't meant to spell every single point out in that one post! This was meant to give the people looking for direct port nitrous a simple method to begin a custom project.
First, the fuel will atomize though how well depends on the shape of your nozzle. You can add some design changes to the tip to change the way it will atomize. A simple roughening of the tubing tip will cause some level of atomization. I think if you are going to bring up fuel atomization then you should be more specific about the various ways to accomplish it instead of just stating that these tubes won't atomize at all!

Second, the tubing system WILL FIT. I wouldn't post something like that without having had some practice with it, and if I did I would point out that I was merely speculating.
I have played with parts for direct port and I assure you that it will fit with some work. NOT the solenoids mind you but various forms of tubing in the system I described.

NOSzles have been discussed multiple times. They require the injector to sit higher as you pointed out.
HOWEVER, you can think out of the box on this one too....just countersink the injector boss and deepen the bore so that with the nozzle installed the fuel rail sits a bit closer to its design height. Then add some washers under the fuel rail where it bolts down so you can make it secure.
Disclaimer: this isn't the whole solution to the problem, it is only meant to provide motivation, ideas, incentive, whatever you want to call it. I choose to call it stimulation of creativity. I find it more fun to build my own equipment because no one ever makes it just the way I like it.

on the lower, each bank is divided into three columns, each column contains the primary and secondary runners. looking down on the manifold, imagine that the injectors are still installed. now for my thoughts.

if you place the nozzles at say a 30 degree (or slightly more obtuse)angle, you would have plenty of room for mounting them perpendicular to airflow. the ends of the nozzles would sit right under the injectors. you could then run the feed lines out to the right in the direction of the throttle body. it seems like there could be room, especially if you use the nylon pressure lines like i stated before. you could then stagger the height that the nozzles are mounted. Say that the rear bank nozzles are mounted slightly higher on the lower than the front bank. this would eliminate any interference with the feed lines from a nozzle on the front bank and its opposing nozzle on the rear bank. unfortunately, that might cause some interference with the secodary butterflies but i'm not certain on that point. (for that matter, i am not certain about any of this. just brain storming, sharing my thoughts.) from there, your distribution block could be mounted to the bracket for the secondary return spring or somewheres equally convenient. the solenoids could then be mounted close by ( you may need to fab up a custom bracket for those though.) my idea was to mount them to the factory bracket for the intake that is just sitting there currently being a waste of plastic

warmonger, i thought about using the NOSzle system once but didn't want to fool with the altered injector height. however, it never even crossed my mind to machine the boss any further might have to look into this set up a little harder

sending atomized fuel through a tiny fuel line (we are prolly talking 1/8" or smaller here) will definetely cause it to stick to the walls while the n2o continues it's journey.... this is why some people say it's dangerous to run wet shot in the 2.5L intake, because of the small bendy runners... this would just aggrevate the problem even more... i would be very scared to even push the button while doing this....

now what i have tried is fitting a wet shot nozzle between the LIM halves, and doing so perpendicular to the port.... the nozzle would fit, but once you put the lines on it you are screwed... a dry nozzle may fit as they aren't as big, but then you still need to figure out fuel....

i like the idea of making the injector boss bigger for the noszle system but then you would be putting the noszle directly in the air stream which may cause other issues.... but it is a good idea that should warrant more investigation....

Originally posted by PuckPuck:

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sending atomized fuel through a tiny fuel line (we are prolly talking 1/8" or smaller here) will definetely cause it to stick to the walls while the n2o continues it's journey.... this is why some people say it's dangerous to run wet shot in the 2.5L intake, because of the small bendy runners...

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The statements about the UIM not being designed to be a "wet" manifold are true and definitely holds merit but...

Exactly "what" bends are in the LIM???

I do agree the fuel atomization properties of a "hole" are not ideal. However installing jets is a simple task. Even angle drilling the hole would greatly increase atomization. It's not like the fuel rail pressure is 1000psi.

Heck; install it above the secondary plates and it can clean them as well as the cruddy secondary valves...

~~~

My entire theory was a computer control dry direct port setup mounted in the LIM. It would be fully programmable (which is a must on our car anyway!) and very safe to run.

~~


Also who cares about trying to hide all this "nitrous" stuff as close to extremely hot engine parts are you can. It's plainly obvious when you use it and you can't hide the solenoids or controller anyway.

...and please don't tell me it's because everyone wants to be all "fast & furious" like...