Crap - CEG Archives

Originally posted by warmonger:

1. If the pcv system blew off then you have all that oil to burn off. Also, without the vacuum on the pcv, any blow-by would be pushing oil back down the lines into the fresh air intake point. You have to pull your intake tube off the compressor and see if you have any oil pooled in it. Next, pull of the discharge tube and clean that too.

2. If your oil feed line to the turbo is too big or does not have a small enough restrictor then you will get this problem.
If the oil doesn't drain out of the bearing housing then you will also get this problem.

Of course, checking compression never hurts either.

**EDIT***

3. Oh yeah, you guys really need to get on board the solid oil return line system that I made. I made one for one of the Cougar guys too. Once you figure out your angles and lengths on the pipes you will never have another issue, no leaks and no rotting/cracking.
Less than $10 for copper tubing and elbows and of course a propane torch, solder and flux.

1. I pulled my IC yesterday to hook the PCV system back up ( I'm goingto get a turbo coupe or Lightning PCV valve today...) and there wasn't any oil in the IC or TB, but there was residue in the turbo oulet. I'll be lookinginto this more today.

2. My feed is 4 AN, but I have a billet flange on the turbo with a restrictor in it. My oil drain is not a flat out straight shot to the block (tapped above the pan), and it's in high temp oil line that is crispy on one side. My plan is to replace with copper tubing so that gravity alone will allow good drainage and no pooling or restrictions.

Yet another trip to Home Depot for "car parts"

Originally posted by warmonger:

1. Well it does smoke under boost, but its only because the temps get so hot so quickly that it starts to burn the oil out of the header wrap.

2. Don't worry! I did this like three or four times! The header wrap really holds the oil and it acts like a wick for a smoke bomb LOL.
I took me two days to burn off all the oil when I spilled a bunch on the header wrap before....and yes everyone looks at you like your car is on fire till it burns away. I purposely removed header wrap on the pipe under where the oil filter is changed just for this reason.

So go find a back road or a street with some neighbors you don't like, and then start running it up and down the road with some full throttle runs in lower gears. The heat will go up tremendously and if you don't give it a chance to cool down it will burn off the oil much quicker, maybe in 20 minutes.

Good luck. You'll be known as the flaming ford around town after that.

1. I meant out of the exhaust, not off of the piping.

2. LMAO, I pulled up to a light and everyone roller their windows up and gave me dirty looks

I noticed the crossover pipe and the bottom of the DP goat somewhat soaked and just smolders at this point. Once I get the new PCV valve inplace and check a few things out, I'm off to the industrial areas to burn it off.

Thanks Tom, I don't feel as bad now and am going to clear these issues up this weekend.

OK, still belching white smoke with the new 1/2" copper return line and a new Lightning PCV valve. I let it run for 20 minutes. It still doesn't smoke at all while idling, but if rev'd any amount past like 2K it starts to puke the smoke. I ditched the wrap from the back half of my down pipe, and it is smoke free.

Things I found...
1. No oil of any kind in the TB and the outlet of the IC.

2. A TINY residue of oil on the inlet of the IC

3. small puddle of oil in the compressor, and light coat of oil in the inlet pipe.

Tomorrow I am pulling my turbo to see what's up with it, I think it may have taken a crap on me. I will also be doing a compression test to rule out the engine to be on the safe side.
I'll have to get a compression test kit or see if AutoZone has a rental set that'll work.

i have my fingers crossed for you.

Thanks Mike.

Well today I pulled my turbo and took it apart. The turbine and the compressor housings were filled with oil. The shaft had NO play in it, so the bearings are still good. Though on the exhaust side, I noticed the "hat" or whatever you'd call it was loose. I'd think it'd sandwhich down between the turbine housing and the center section when fastened down. Here is a small video of what I'm talking about.

Here are pics of the turbo after taking apart. They do not do the amount of actual oil that was in the turbo justice...

There was NO oil in the IC and obviously none in the TB. There was a small trail of oil down the intake tube, but it came from the turbo.

I pulled all of the plugs and they were oil free and looked like this

I had a step colder copper plugs, which I installed. I cleaned out the compressor and turbine housing with brake kleen, reassembled and reinstalled.
It was smoke free until it started to heat up, and then it was belching the smoke again

I pulled the intercooler to find fresh oil was just starting to seep through into the compressor housing.

What I think (anyone think I'm off, or even correct.... please speak up

) is the seals in the turbo, or even a c-clip has gone out. Oil on both sides of the turbo, and not just a film or residue...but enough to form puddles. This turbo was either brand new or it's a garret reman from Allied Signal, with less than 1000 miles on it. I had a crappy oil return line, but it's been done correctly now. I am planning on pulling the turbo again and dropping it off to have it checked out with the idea of getting the seals replaced.

glad to hear this wasn't the end of the world!

This is idling with a few revs to 3K

James Bonds was cool because he could turn this off with a flip of a switch

LMFAO! I'd love to see that thing in motion.

Hey, if you have very high blow-by into the crankcase via the pcv system, or like through a blown piston then you will force oil out of the turbo labyrinth seals in the same way you would if you didn't have a restrictor in the oil feed.

You had better run a compression test fairly quick so you don't go chasing problems.

I'm hoping it is just a bad seal but I am suprised it is blowing out of both the turbine and compressor side.

my pgt turbo wasnt that bad,and it had bad valve seals,and piston rings,and a ton of blow by

Yeah, it'd be easier to do a compression test at this point. If the shortblock IS bad, that will seal the deal on this car for me.

Originally posted by TC'd Swazo:
Yeah, it'd be easier to do a compression test at this point. If the shortblock IS bad, that will seal the deal on this car for me.

Say it ain't so! Er, don't give up that easily!

Will you bring it down to Florida for me?

Your book will be in the mail come morning, by the way...

yeah man you cant throw in the towel now.

Originally posted by m!key:
yeah man you cant throw in the towel now.

All your R&D for the turbo kit is done. If the motor is blown rebuild it.

trade me . . .

I'm pretty burned out on mod'ing cars, and this was the straw that broke the camels back. I am going to clear space in my shop this week to dismantle my CSVT and part 'er out. Keep your eyes on the classifieds for my ad

Your car + cash Mr. Lowballer

Originally posted by TC'd Swazo:
I'm pretty burned out on mod'ing cars, and this was the straw that broke the camels back. I am going to clear space in my shop this week to dismantle my CSVT and part 'er out. Keep your eyes on the classifieds for my ad

Wait, so you've already done the compression test? Have you confirmed that the motor is bad?

Mark

1) Do compression test first!

2) Looks to me like maybe it is just fuxored seals in the turbo.

I'm going to do a compression test, to see if it is the engine or turbo. I simply don't have time for a project car anymore

I know it may seem petty to just call it quits over something like this, but I've dumped my last couple of hundred bucks into this car. I was planning on selling the car once it was tuned and dialed in, but at this point I'd make a little more just parting the car out.

I'll be carefully dismantling the car this next week in preperation of selling it all.

Originally posted by TC'd Swazo:
I'm going to do a compression test, to see if it is the engine or turbo. I simply don't have time for a project car anymore I know it may seem petty to just call it quits over something like this, but I've dumped my last couple of hundred bucks into this car. I was planning on selling the car once it was tuned and dialed in, but at this point I'd make a little more just parting the car out.

I'll be carefully dismantling the car this next week in preperation of selling it all.

Trust me - I'm on the brink of wanting to sell my CSVT too. Maybe that's why I'm dragging my heels on my 3L conversion.

But at LEAST do a compression test before you dismantle it. It's such an easy test! You may just find it's only a bad trubo and you could get another one and be happy again - what do you have to lose?

I just ordered a compression tester w/ the correct 14mm long adapter, so it's only a matter of time now.

Originally posted by Stazi:
Trust me - I'm on the brink of wanting to sell my CSVT too. Maybe that's why I'm dragging my heels on my 3L conversion.

And for you.. SZ is right around the corner, and don't you already have a 3L? You've been talking about selling it for almost a year now. Get out there and drop the new motor in.

Mark

Trust me, I know where you are mentally ... I was soo close to just cutting my losses and selling the car, all my tools ... EVERYTHING! Step back, take a break from the car for a few days and clear your head. Then, come back to it and do the compression test. Based on the results, make a plan of attack and STICK TO IT! Be true to yourself and you won't look back in disgust

Originally posted by Y2KSVT:

Originally posted by Stazi:
Trust me - I'm on the brink of wanting to sell my CSVT too. Maybe that's why I'm dragging my heels on my 3L conversion.

And for you.. SZ is right around the corner, and don't you already have a 3L? You've been talking about selling it for almost a year now. Get out there and drop the new motor in.

Mark

I know it. I got to finish of a customers car this week and get REALLY crackin' on mine. I don't know it's like 3 weeks away......

Originally posted by Stazi:

Originally posted by Y2KSVT:

Originally posted by Stazi:
Trust me - I'm on the brink of wanting to sell my CSVT too. Maybe that's why I'm dragging my heels on my 3L conversion.

And for you.. SZ is right around the corner, and don't you already have a 3L? You've been talking about selling it for almost a year now. Get out there and drop the new motor in.

Mark

I know it. I got to finish of a customers car this week and get REALLY crackin' on mine. I don't know it's like 3 weeks away......

You da man! I'd put money that you could do it in under a week since you know the deadline is coming up. But hey, I just want to be sure that your car makes it down, so hold off if you have to. Okay, I'm done hijacking the thread.

Mark

Originally posted by Y2KSVT:

Originally posted by Stazi:

Originally posted by Y2KSVT:

Originally posted by Stazi:
Trust me - I'm on the brink of wanting to sell my CSVT too. Maybe that's why I'm dragging my heels on my 3L conversion.

And for you.. SZ is right around the corner, and don't you already have a 3L? You've been talking about selling it for almost a year now. Get out there and drop the new motor in.

Mark

I know it. I got to finish of a customers car this week and get REALLY crackin' on mine. I don't know it's like 3 weeks away......

You da man! I'd put money that you could do it in under a week since you know the deadline is coming up. But hey, I just want to be sure that your car makes it down, so hold off if you have to. Okay, I'm done hijacking the thread.

Mark

Once school is out for me I will try my damndest to make sure his car gets down there. I know I make it sound like I am going to lead his project to glory, but hey...someone has to order the pizzas!

Originally posted by fastcougar:
Step back, take a break from the car for a few days and clear your head.

Couldn't agree more....I've been at the "selling point" before, but i'm prety happy i didn't looking back.

Originally posted by pole120:

Originally posted by fastcougar:
Step back, take a break from the car for a few days and clear your head.

Couldn't agree more....I've been at the "selling point" before, but i'm prety happy i didn't looking back.

I'm at the same point as well now. Now that I'm getting the little things fixed here and there the love is re-kindled for the car. I just sucks ass in the wet/snow

I thought about selling my car too, when the 2.5L died. I'm glad I didn't.

Just say it with me now....Whoosa. Don't forget to rub your ears. Have some vodka with ice, and think about how nice the weather is or how good the drink is

whenever the thought enters my head i just remember all the owners that have sold their cars and want to get another, or have already bought another contour and i come back to earth. i think i will have this car for a very long time to come. i may have more cars to go with it but still keeping it around. it is just too much fun. i want to do a turbo someday as well.

Originally posted by m!key:
whenever the thought enters my head i just remember all the owners that have sold their cars and want to get another, or have already bought another contour and i come back to earth.

I'm on my 3rd Contique. I have the opportunity to cash purchase a new or newer car next year, but have decided to keep the Mystique. No new car for me. I'll keep my money working for me for a few more years...

Originally posted by TourDeForce:

Originally posted by m!key:
whenever the thought enters my head i just remember all the owners that have sold their cars and want to get another, or have already bought another contour and i come back to earth.

...i'm one of those owners,i purp. stay away from the site,so i dont have to think about looking for another one...than my friend comes over with his silfro svt and i start looking all over again

I hear ya Swazo, I did the same thing with the SC 3L cougar, I didn't get as far into it as some but was well over 12K and the car was worth maybe 8K and I was like mmm this don't make no sense no matter how much I love it! Do what you WANT to do the heck with everyone else living a dream through your wallet!

Im not able to send a PM for some reason. I just wanted to call dibs on the Aussie bar setup. And can you PM me a price for the CF hood. Thanks.
-tropictour

My car did exactly the same thing when I started my 3L for the first time with my chip... I checked everything for days and thought my engine was messed up until I decided to take out the chip...

Use your stock maf and stock ECU... In my case the Maf tables weren't the correct ones for the maf which I was using...

Hope it works out for you

EDIT: Just read the entire thread your problem seems to be different

I'm going to find out why my car is doing what it is before I do anything else.

Until the compression tester shows....

My exhaust system is filled with oil. I have a pin hole in my system about half way down the system, and there was a decent puddle under it

I've never had to deal with broken ring lands before, but wouldn't I have oil contamination on the spark plugs?
My block was bored too big for my pistons, and a set of oversized rings had to go in after the pistons were cut for them.

My PCV had failed all together (did not seal at all), and I have since replaced it with a Lightning PCV (from Checkers).... though it doesn't totally seal. I'm going to stop by the dealership and get either a T-bird turbo coupe or a Lightning PCV, wheatever seals better.

I do not have 1-way valves on my valve cover vent or PCV lines that are tapped into my intake (between my MAF and turbo). Could this be the source of my problem?

Originally posted by TC'd Swazo:

My block was bored too big for my pistons, and a set of oversized rings had to go in after the pistons were cut for them.

Say what? The block was bored correctly for the pistons, it was that none of the OEM ring suppliers made a set of rings to fit a 1mm overbore piston so we had to get a set of rings from Total Seal that would fit and be able to maintain the correct end gap.

Rick

Originally posted by Buckshot77:
I got the correct rings in yesterday and went to fit and assemble today. It appears that the machine shop messed up doing the bores and oversized them too much. I'm checking further, but I'm going to talk to the shop on Monday and see what happened. The piston to bore clearance is fishy in my book becuase the end gaps on the new rings is still past the service limit in my manual.

The rings fit, but not with the bore size the block had. You also wanted to build the skirt thickness up by sending them to Terry. Maybe I'm misunderstanding what took place, but I've gone over our PM's to double check and that is what I've come up with.

It was my first inclination that the machine shop overbored too much, but we later discussed that the bore was correct and the rings were wrong. If you remember, the piston company sent the wrong rings with the order originally, but too much time had passed so they wouldn't do anything on them. I then ordered a set of Fel pro overbore rings, but they weren't big enough either. I finally had to go to Total Seal and get a set from them, plus send in the pistons to have the top ring groove cut to fit the 1.5 mm ring thickness. In any case, it was the ring issue all along in regards to thinking the bore was done incorrectly.

Rick

Why am I in that messed up quote? None of what I said is in there...

If it runs and idles fine I would be inclined to think it's something with the PCV system.

IT IS THE TURBO!

With my experience, and from what you described I am almost postive the turbo is the issue.

I got a buddy with the same issue looking for a turbo as we speak.

Originally posted by Meester Duratec:
It was my first inclination that the machine shop overbored too much, but we later discussed that the bore was correct and the rings were wrong. If you remember, the piston company sent the wrong rings with the order originally, but too much time had passed so they wouldn't do anything on them. I then ordered a set of Fel pro overbore rings, but they weren't big enough either. I finally had to go to Total Seal and get a set from them, plus send in the pistons to have the top ring groove cut to fit the 1.5 mm ring thickness. In any case, it was the ring issue all along in regards to thinking the bore was done incorrectly.

Rick

Let me go on record and say that before I even got my shortblock from Rick, he told me to stay at or below 300HP. IF anything is wrong with the engine, I can't and don't blame him at all for me ignoring (not to spite, but to make a point) his soild advice.

I went off of memory on any reason I could have a failure, I wasn't finger pointing or anything like that. I do feel a lot better knowing that my engine doesn't have the.... "quirk" I had originally thought it did. Looking into further PM's, you are 100% correct and my craptastic memory was at fault

It isn't running AS good as it had been, but it will idle fine once it starts.

The PCV system was redone when I removed, cleaned and reinstalled the turbo. The same issues are present unfortunatly.

Originally posted by LocoGSR:
IT IS THE TURBO!

With my experience, and from what you described I am almost postive the turbo is the issue.

I got a buddy with the same issue looking for a turbo as we speak.

I really do hope it is the turbo! The bearings are still good, so it's only a matter of having new seals installed wouldn't be that bad at all. Once I know if I have a dead cylinder or not, I'd bet it is the turbo.

Originally posted by Stazi:

Originally posted by Y2KSVT:

Originally posted by Stazi:
Trust me - I'm on the brink of wanting to sell my CSVT too. Maybe that's why I'm dragging my heels on my 3L conversion.

And for you.. SZ is right around the corner, and don't you already have a 3L? You've been talking about selling it for almost a year now. Get out there and drop the new motor in.

Mark

I know it. I got to finish of a customers car this week and get REALLY crackin' on mine. I don't know it's like 3 weeks away......

Man, once you pop in that 3L, even with the same turbo hardware it will almost be a new car all over again! I got tired of experimenting and then perfecting my kit, but the 3L gave me 2 years of enjoyment, then the turbo setup gave me over two more years. At this point I bet a 3L turbo will give you a year or two more AND it will make it easier to sell anyway if you decide later to let it go.
I'm not kidding about this but I think about my car every couple of days when I want to have fun and some days I really regret having to sell. I miss it.

Stick with it, you've gotten this far.

Originally posted by TC'd Swazo:
I'm going to find out why my car is doing what it is before I do anything else.

Until the compression tester shows....

My exhaust system is filled with oil. I have a pin hole in my system about half way down the system, and there was a decent puddle under it

I've never had to deal with broken ring lands before, but wouldn't I have oil contamination on the spark plugs?
My block was bored too big for my pistons, and a set of oversized rings had to go in after the pistons were cut for them.

My PCV had failed all together (did not seal at all), and I have since replaced it with a Lightning PCV (from Checkers).... though it doesn't totally seal. I'm going to stop by the dealership and get either a T-bird turbo coupe or a Lightning PCV, wheatever seals better.

I do not have 1-way valves on my valve cover vent or PCV lines that are tapped into my intake (between my MAF and turbo). Could this be the source of my problem?

Broken ringlands:
--Yes, the plugs were oil fouled on mine and I'd expect them fouled on yours.

--Not sure on the oversized bore.

-- PCV, I recommend the stock PCV as I tried the lightning pcv and had some issues with sealing also. The stock pcv is what the car came with and works FINE. Still working fine. Mainly, you must not have any loose hoses and you must have good vacuum to it.

--I did not have any one way valves on the valve cover vents. They must be able to allow airflow both ways in case of blow-by under boost and of course for vacuum through the pcv valve running fresh air into the engine through the vents. Leave that system the way it is, put in a new stock pcv in the correct manner. Clamp your hoses.

--Oil in the exhaust. Even with two completely broken pistons with oil all in the cylinders I didn't have enough oil to make it down into the exhaust system and DEFINITELY not nearly as much smoke as you have, nor no puddling of oil into the exhaust at all!!
After this fact I'm almost convinced you either don't have the proper restrictor in your oil feed line, your oil drain is plugged up, or you have blown the exhaust side of your turbine shaft seal!
This is very easy to fix and I think you are getting too down on yourself too quickly.

Do the compression test for peace of mind, but you should also be thinking about pulling the turbo at this point.

Originally posted by TC'd Swazo:
It isn't running AS good as it had been, but it will idle fine once it starts.

The PCV system was redone when I removed, cleaned and reinstalled the turbo. The same issues are present unfortunatly.

Originally posted by LocoGSR:
IT IS THE TURBO!

With my experience, and from what you described I am almost postive the turbo is the issue.

I got a buddy with the same issue looking for a turbo as we speak.

I really do hope it is the turbo! The bearings are still good, so it's only a matter of having new seals installed wouldn't be that bad at all. Once I know if I have a dead cylinder or not, I'd bet it is the turbo.

It WONT be running as good now with you pumping the exhaust system full of oil I'd guess. Are you running a catalyst? If so it's probably shot and may not flow well at all now.
Otherwise, start checking the turbo, stop feeling depressed, get your [censored] together and start doing a proper diagnosis. It may be the rings but likely is not as no one with blow rings has had as much smoke as you or the same issues.

(sometimes you've got to hit upside the head before sense returns)

Sir, YES Sir!

I've got a restrictor in the inlet flange and the return line is now 1/2" copper and is a 45* shot to the block with no areas to slow the drainage in any way. I pulled the turbo, cleaned it and reinstalled it with the same issues present.

The cat got gutted when it failed right off the bat during the intial tuning. I have yet to replace it (luckily), but plan on doing so when everything is sorted out.

I know that this is pretty useless to you but you might find it funny. When I worked as a diesel mechanic I had a truck come in that blew the turbo while doing roughly 75. It took longer to clean all the oil off the truck than it did to check the engine and replace the turbo. I would have loved to see the spray when it happened.

I was looking at rebuild kits for T3's on ebay when I noted they had 2 large gaskets.

I am almost sure they would go to the compressor housing and the turbine housing to seal them against the center seciton.

I do not have these on my turbo. I got the turbo in trade from a friend that was in debt to me. He'd taken apart the turbo to polish the compressor housing, but stopped trying after sanding with 60 grit.

Anyway, could this be the cause of my exhaust oiling turbo?

Are you really asking!? (rhetorical) If it is missing gaskets I would bet the farm!

Ok, very stupid question

Maybe I should have double checked the turbo seeing it came from a guy named "Drunken Will"

Originally posted by TC'd Swazo:
Ok, very stupid question

Maybe I should have double checked the turbo seeing it came from a guy named "Drunken Will"

I thought I remembered you getting that thing from a questionable source! LMFAO!

Shiz! Hope that's the end of that problem!

I've found that most T3's don't have the seal between the compressor housing and the backing plate. Many just spray a thin layer of copper RTV on to make a seal or the like.

On turbomustangs.com, I've been reading up on very simular situations where they're smoking. Most people run atleast a 5/8"/-10AN oil return line to stop issues like mine. They also atleast run a -3AN or -4AN feed line with a restrictor, which I do have.

How large of an I.D. return line do you all run? Mine is 1/2" copper with high temp hose ends simply to adapt it to my fittings with hose barbs.

On top of getting the missing gaskets, I'm considering ditching the hose fittings and get down to the pipe thread to -AN adapters, bore them out to as big of an I.D. as I can, and build a new solid return line that's 5/8" or 3/4".

Where does your return line enter the engine ... pan or block? Also, what fixture is at the return end ... slip fit or threaded? If you feel like doing it right, I would suggest these guys as a starting point to design you own solution: ATP Turbo: Oil Supply Section

Here you can customize the return line (10AN) however you want it: ATP Turbo Return Oil Line Customizer

Slip fit with -AN to NPT adapters on both ends, and it's tapped into the block above the pan. From everything I've read, I am damn sure this is my problem. T3's do not have oil seals, but rather piston ring type rings. I'm not dorwning my turbo in oil because of the feed, but because it simply can't drain fast enough.

Thanks for the link, I'm going to order a return line from them today

You can get those lines made up at any hydraulic hose shop around town. Shoot, most high performance auto parts shops will have the braided stainless and push lock or screw on type ends that you'll need too. Should be quicker and probably the same or less cost.

Rick

What size is the restrictor? You only need about a one thou hole in it. There are several ADC turbo kits out there with a half inch drain.

Edit: none are running your turbo however.

Originally posted by Buckshot77:
You can get those lines made up at any hydraulic hose shop around town.

I had some fresh high pressure hoses pressed onto my BMW tranny fittings at a heavy equipment hydraulics shop. Cost me $5. Dealer wanted $178 for each of the two assemblies.

Originally posted by TC'd Swazo:
Ok, very stupid question

Maybe I should have double checked the turbo seeing it came from a guy named "Drunken Will"

Best post in a while.

Originally posted by TC'd Swazo:
Slip fit with -AN to NPT adapters on both ends, and it's tapped into the block above the pan. From everything I've read, I am damn sure this is my problem. T3's do not have oil seals, but rather piston ring type rings. I'm not dorwning my turbo in oil because of the feed, but because it simply can't drain fast enough.

Thanks for the link, I'm going to order a return line from them today

I took the AN-NPT fitting, threaded the hole and sunk a soft bodied screw into it. Then I drilled a 1/16" hole through it and polished the tip.

1/16" hole has been perfect. You have to remember you are pumping oil at up to 80psi sometimes through that line.

You can also use a brass fitting and probably fill it with plumbing solder, then drill the 1/16" hole through it. It would take 5 minutes with a torch and then it does not matter what size feed line you use.

1/2" drain line is more than sufficient!

Tom, I already have a restrictor. I have a billet aluminum flange with a -4an male end on it, and it has a 1/16" hole to feed the turbo with. Even with the 1/2" return line, it's still pooling up. Now to say it isn't the turbine shaft seal, I can't until I tear down the turbo. But, I'll replace the drain line with the honker -10AN, and go from there.

My camera's battery died after taking a couple of pics, and it's charging now. But I pulled the turbo again and found it is not leaking in the compressor housing at all. The turbine and the down pipe is chuck full of oil though.

I'll be pulling the DP to clean it out and swabbing out the cat-back with a home made giant Q-tip (broom stick with rags tied on the end), while it's off

Just killing time for the compression tester and misc items to get here...

Originally posted by Keyser:
What size is the restrictor? You only need about a one thou hole in it. There are several ADC turbo kits out there with a half inch drain.

Edit: none are running your turbo however.

Originally posted by TC'd Swazo:
Tom, I already have a restrictor. I have a billet aluminum flange with a -4an male end on it, and it has a 1/16" hole to feed the turbo with.

What would be good gasket material to make a new downpipe gasket from? I have a 4-bolt flange and can't find a new gasket for the life of me.

I can tell you that a Sprite can will not work very well

Is that what your turbo SVT came with for a gasket??

Wow, that guy was a hack

Is that what your turbo SVT came with for a gasket??

Wow, that guy was a hack

Is that what your turbo SVT came with for a gasket??

Wow, that guy was a hack

Originally posted by TC'd Swazo:
Is that what your turbo SVT came with for a gasket?? Wow, that guy was a hack

easy on the triple posts, meng...

hehe

Originally posted by TC'd Swazo:
Is that what your turbo SVT came with for a gasket?? Wow, that guy was a hack

put down the coffee and step away from the computer!

Yes, the shop this guy took the car to was definitely a hack job type place. The "gasket" blew out on one side and caused a horrible exhaust leak at the turbine exhaust housing. See ...

Now, I can't completely fault the gasket ... the bolt below the downpipe was missing, which is what probably caused the leak and lead to the gasket decitegration on that side.

I think that if you used some thin sheet aluminum or mild steel and them coated both sides with some extreme temp sealer (oven sealer), it should work fine.

Originally posted by TC'd Swazo:

Originally posted by TC'd Swazo:
Tom, I already have a restrictor. I have a billet aluminum flange with a -4an male end on it, and it has a 1/16" hole to feed the turbo with.

Is there any oil in the exhaust manifolds?

Wow, CEG was acting funny this morning. I swear.... it wasn't me

There is no oil in the headers or crossover pipe. I just got home to find I got the compression tester had been delivered.

I'm off to do ease my mind on my engine

Not bad at all! 200-205 in every cylinder

I was sweating bullets while doing every cylinder! Every time I walked from the drivers seat to the front of the car I was almost scared to even look at the dial

Originally posted by TC'd Swazo:
Not bad at all! 200-205 in every cylinder

I was sweating bullets while doing every cylinder! Every time I walked from the drivers seat to the front of the car I was almost scared to even look at the dial

Damn! Those are great numbers and that settles that ... rebuild the turdo ... I mean turbo and get back on the dyno and finish tuning it.

If both surfaces are machined flat some copper gasket crap should work fine.

I'm pretty stoked about this turn of events. If I can limp this POS turbo a bit, I may spring for a GT series later on since many have the same flanges I already have.

Originally posted by TC'd Swazo:
Not bad at all! 200-205 in every cylinder

I was sweating bullets while doing every cylinder! Every time I walked from the drivers seat to the front of the car I was almost scared to even look at the dial

SEE!!!

Okay, the easiest thing for a gasket is to get thin gauge sheet metal from the hardware store, they have it in 12x12 sheets at ACE Hardware and trace out the flange pattern on it. Then you can use tin snips. Don't buy the aluminum because the heat is high enough to rot it out over time, buy the thin steel.
I don't think they'd have stainless which is what you'd really want, but a piece of steel will last a long time and thin galvanized may work even longer.
So after you get the pattern use a small metal cutting bit on a dremel or die-grinder. You can use an air nibbler too, those are great for the inside outside but not the bolt holes.

Gee I guess my suggestion paid off before you threw in the towel afterall. Personally I ditch the "Drunkass Turbo" and buy a GT and be done with it rather than try and dick around with something that may or may not work. If anything I wouldn't even try and fab up my own gasket like TOm said - I'd buy the real deal rebuild kit and try that - if that doesn't work THEN buy anew turbo.....that'd be my plan anyway.

pssshht...what'da those guys know about turbos

This all the gasket you need!

well there goes my good deal on a boost controller!!!

I am kidding...I am glad you slowed it down a bit.

Just buy a new turbo so you can rule it out completely. If you still have an oil problem you will wonder if you did a good job rebuilding it. Avoid the uncertainty. A nice GT30R would really liven that thing up.

Well, I found a 4-bolt downpipe gasket so I'm good to go there. Making one would have been a good option if I hadn't, but they don't come in the rebuild kits since there are 5 bolt, 4 bolt or v-band type housings out there.

Everything but the direct T3 specific parts I've ordered as of late will make a good oiling system for either my "Drunken Will turbo" or a GT series. I'll see if I can't get my currant turbo working right, even if I have to rebuild it.... though I doubt I will have to do much more than a turbine shaft seal IF that much. I'm betting my new drain line will cure my car's issues.

Where's a really good source for GT series.... just so I can drool a bit, of course

Awesome Swazo!

.....even if I can't buy your parts now.

Originally posted by TC'd Swazo:
Well, I found a 4-bolt downpipe gasket so I'm good to go there. Making one would have been a good option if I hadn't, but they don't come in the rebuild kits since there are 5 bolt, 4 bolt or v-band type housings out there.

Everything but the direct T3 specific parts I've ordered as of late will make a good oiling system for either my "Drunken Will turbo" or a GT series. I'll see if I can't get my currant turbo working right, even if I have to rebuild it.... though I doubt I will have to do much more than a turbine shaft seal IF that much. I'm betting my new drain line will cure my car's issues.

Where's a really good source for GT series.... just so I can drool a bit, of course

Why don't you just take it to a local turbo builder? They have the right tools and the experience and probably won't charge you much. Worst case is you need a turbo and maybe you can get some trade in credit.

That's what I was going to do monday morning, drop it off to be rebuilt. There are a few very good places around town that won't gouge me. Eventually, a GT series will be going in, but I don't want to spend $1200 on one at the moment.

While it's out, I'm changing my downpipe a little. I'm going to vent the wastegate to atmosphere and change the routing to improve ground clearance and make it a full 3" from the turbo-back. Now the top 1/3 is 2.5" that transitions to 3".

Also... a stiffer (5.63) spring is on it's way to replace the 3.63er. I can't let Ray keep the title for much longer

You're gonna have to move pretty quick.

I just sent in payment for my profecB, followed YOUR advice on a low/high speed switch and already have the 7# wastegate spring put in, in place of the 3# spring that was coming open from the exhaust.

Once the profec is in, I have a tentatively scheduled dyno run in San Antonio, as well. We'll see what a steady 12/13psi can do.

A trip to the track is next, with the Profec helping me out (well, as much as it CAN..) to see what *I* can pull off, though my driving skill at a track is sub-par compared to Tom's, I am sure.

my car is going in for the base tune this week. they a quick break-in...
I haven't decided on a boost controller. But hopefully I can get it fully tunes within 2-3 weeks.

Originally posted by Ray:
You're gonna have to move pretty quick.

I just sent in payment for my profecB, followed YOUR advice on a low/high speed switch and already have the 7# wastegate spring put in, in place of the 3# spring that was coming open from the exhaust.

Once the profec is in, I have a tentatively scheduled dyno run in San Antonio, as well. We'll see what a steady 12/13psi can do.

A trip to the track is next, with the Profec helping me out (well, as much as it CAN..) to see what *I* can pull off, though my driving skill at a track is sub-par compared to Tom's, I am sure.

Dont put yourself down ray, you're the new torch carrier. Just make us all proud! (and pick up some DR's!)

Originally posted by Ray:
You're gonna have to move pretty quick.
....
though my driving skill at a track is sub-par compared to Tom's, I am sure.

Hahahah! Don't be too sure about that. I was never a really good drag racer so I kept using my mind to find more ways to make more power so that I could get down the drag strip as fast as possible.......all to make up for not being that good at driving.

Still, it is very cool to have some guy with a camaro get a good hole shot on you and then come zooming down the drag strip right on past him....

Although I must say I'm better about launching a car now from the practice.
If you are going to use that 6lb spring of yours you will need to learn how to tap dance those feet on the launch....or you Must pop on a set of DRs.

Can't wait to hear how the rebuild works out.

Damn, rebuilds are a bit more than I thought! Most places are $300+ to replace the bearings and seals

I've noticed a lot of T3/T04E's on Ebay going for about $250 shipped, but none with a 4-bolt compressor housing. The specs check out besides that, so shouldn't I be able to swap my compressor housing over to the new turbo?

Edit:
Keep in mind that I only want something that will last atleast a few months until I can line up a choice GT30R.

After doing a bit of research, I've found that I should just get my real Garrett rebuilt rather than get some mystery T3/T4. There are just too many horror stories about sschrome, stone mountian research and other off brand chinese knock off POS.

*sigh*

Ever see the pics of that one mystery T3 which was held together with GLUE!?

Yeah! Lots of stories like that on the honda, nissan and scoobie boards. I'd burn my money before I waisted it on one of those

I took my turbo in to be rebuilt, and it had the compressor and turbine housing already taken off. The guy checks it out, asks a few questions and noted that the restrictor I have is "f___in' tiny" from all the others he's seen people use.

I got a call this afternoon, and he said there were a few worn seals but primarily there are signs of "hot stops". The bearings had debris marks in them and the journals and will need to be honed for oversized bearings.

Now, everytime I ran my car I would let it idle for atleast 5 minuets after just stop and go type driving. I would let it atleast 10 after running around fairly hard.
It did get a lot of dyno time (NO cool down time inbetween runs) to get the break-in tune done, and even more to get to where I'm at now.

My question is this, how fast can one cook a turbo? Could it be from being run on a my freshly built engine and misc. debris making it into the turbo? WTF?

Isn't this the turbo you got from like shady dave or something!?

if yiou weren't on the boost then 5 min if overkill. 10 minutes is even more overkill. Just waisting petrol.

Drunken Will

I've known the guy since 1st grade, he's not a crook. He's a way cool guy by day, druuuunk as ish club/bar hopper by night. He picked the turbo up in a GB on a honda site, but ended up being happy with a wicked NA B20 w/ vtec conversion.

The center had the factory plugs in the inlet and outlet, but he had removed the housings. I'm pretty sure any damage that was done was after it went into my car.

Turbo timer?

My alarm has one

Is it water cooled?

The water primarily cools it and the oil also cools. If it is not water cooled then you ONLY the oil will be cooling it. You could slightly increase the size of your restrictor if you think it will help.

But remember, this turbo is mounted FAR away from the exhaust manifold and less likely to run as hot as it would right off the manifold.
The turbo may have been basically fine, but those hot spots could have developed before hand since it was used and not rebuilt. What kind of car was it run on before?

I average a 2 min idle (automatic) and max 5 min if I have been beating the snot out of it.

It's only oil cooled. Good point about the mounting location, though if it isn't flowing enough oil I could imagine the turbo getting too hot. I'll talk to the tech tomorrow to see what he thinks about the ideal size of a restrictor. I got a call that they've finished with the rebuild ($375

).

I was told it was new at the time I got ahold of it, and from the way it looked I can believe it. Though, I know I could clean up the turbine housing to make it look new too.

well get that beotch working - I need a ride up to emmigration canyon . . .

Originally posted by TC'd Swazo:
It's only oil cooled. Good point about the mounting location, though if it isn't flowing enough oil I could imagine the turbo getting too hot. I'll talk to the tech tomorrow to see what he thinks about the ideal size of a restrictor. I got a call that they've finished with the rebuild ($375 ).

I was told it was new at the time I got ahold of it, and from the way it looked I can believe it. Though, I know I could clean up the turbine housing to make it look new too.

Oil coolde only.

Get a water cooled version!

I'll be looking for a liquid cooled GT series when it comes time to upgrade...

Like mine?

Kinda, but with a T3 flange inlet/ 4-bolt outlet turbine housing that's meant for an external wastegate. I'll probably switch from a .63 to a .82 exhaust side this time around.

Originally posted by Stazi:
Like mine?

Originally posted by TC'd Swazo:
It's only oil cooled. Good point about the mounting location, though if it isn't flowing enough oil I could imagine the turbo getting too hot. I'll talk to the tech tomorrow to see what he thinks about the ideal size of a restrictor. I got a call that they've finished with the rebuild ($375 ).

I was told it was new at the time I got ahold of it, and from the way it looked I can believe it. Though, I know I could clean up the turbine housing to make it look new too.

I hate to say it, but you'd have been better off getting a new cross bearing assembly with watercooled bearings and having the housings/wheels installed. THat would have increased the longevity 10-fold at least! AND it would virtually eliminate the need for a cool down period on anything other than hard running. Call the guy up and ask him how hard it would be to add a watercooled bearing assembly, normally it only costs like $75-$100 add-on when getting a T3/4 turbo. Since he's rebuilt the old bearing he can use that on a rebuilt turbo and sell you the water cooled assembly for maybe a bit more....hopefully.

I always gave about a 1 minute cooldown after beating racing my car before shutting it off, but normal driving I just waited maybe 10 seconds and shut it off. I did have the benefit of an EGT guage and my criteria was letting the temps drop to 400 degrees C or lower at idle after getting off of it, both Turbo or N/A.

It's worth a shot

I wasn't able to make it in to pick it up yesterday before they shut down for the week, so it may have worked out well.

I have a pyrometer I am going to install actually. This is the best time to install it now that the turbo is out of the car and the piping is open. I picked all of your brains on where I should place the probe for best results, I'll have to freshen up on it today.

I've got them switching me over to a water cooled center section for $150. I really would rather do it right this time around...... I'm glad you poited out the obvious for me Tom

Cool. Just FYI, you take the coolant bypass line going from the water pump housing over the trans and into the heater core and tap into it.
You will cut it where there is a 90* bend near the pump and get another couple small 90* bends from autozone along with hose couplers and connect it to the short piece still coming off the water pump. This will get the water pump line to the turbo bearing assembly, then the other end of the line just goes onto the opposite side of the turbo bearing and on into the heater core.
Works great, lasts a long time....

and only takes like 20min to hook up.
And about $10 in hose clamps, couplers and the rubber hose elbows.
Oh, its 5/8" hose IIRC....

or maybe 3/4" Oh well.

you'll figure that part out.
Oh, and you'll need two brass barbed fittings, the 1/2" NPT thread on one end will thread into the turbo bearings....available at home depot or Ace hardware.
Convenient.

Actually Tom, the hose that goes to the heater core which is RIGHT THERE next to the turbo is already cut from the factory and has a male-tomale connector in there. I just took out the connector and use the turbo as the connector and viola!

Yeah, I know it is cut but on my car the split is in the wrong spot making one end a bit short and then the other end had a kink in it where the bends in the hose were. So I solved the problem by cutting it at the bend and adding an elbow that allowed it to go up and turn right into the turbo, and the the part of the bend left on the other end was the perfect length to go around the turbo towards the left fender and plug on.

But yeah, he could do that esp. if it lines up good enough.

The coolant line couldn't have worked out any better than it does!

I should be up and running with a few mods under my belt by the end of the week

The turbo is installed, coolant lines are run and I am just tacking up the new downpipe so it can be TIG'd tomorrow.

::sigh::

I'm pooped

Originally posted by TC'd Swazo:
The turbo is installed, coolant lines are run and I am just tacking up the new downpipe so it can be TIG'd tomorrow.

::sigh::

I'm pooped

Got any pictures?

I will take a bunch tomorrow before I install it, and after. I will also show the pics of how the downpipe used to run.

I'm looking forward to hear my wastegate vent to atmosphere for the first time

Originally posted by TC'd Swazo:
I will take a bunch tomorrow before I install it, and after. I will also show the pics of how the downpipe used to run.

I'm looking forward to hear my wastegate vent to atmosphere for the first time

It'll be cool, and not too loud...or not as loud as people think.

I can't wait till you get back on the road, finish tuning and dyno at 12psi.

Once it warmed up, it started to smoke again. I guess that could easily mean that it's burning off the oil in the exhaust system (there is/was a fair amount). I have to get more fuel and let it run tomorrow for a while in hopes the oil burns off.

Stilov has his PCV ran dirrectly to the intake. I have mine ran inbetween the MAF and turbo. I still have the lightning PCV with the contour top, but I want toe pick up a new Contour PCV. Anymore opinions on an optimal PCV routing?

To give an idea of how much freakin oil had been pumped into my exhaust system, my car has been up on jack stands for 3 days. There are 3 TINY pin holes in the cat-back and there are bread plate sized puddles of oil under them

I can only imagine how long it is going to take to burn off all of that damn oil

I drove around for about 10 minutes and I noticed that my boost gauge was reading that it was getting near 14 psi on the low setting, where before it read 10. I turned the EBC all the way down to be on the safe side.

I was driving around in 1st and 2nd to keep it rev'ing fairly high to really heat up the exhaust to burn the oil off. I am now shooting the front valve cover vent line off under boost

Think that's a bad PCV setup, or worse?

If it werenâ�?��?�t for your good compression numbers, I'd suspect there might be more to this than a turbo gasket. Is it possible thereâ�?��?�s a problem with your rings or cylinder walls that the compression test didnâ�?��?�t indicate?

Just to say it, I'm really sorry to read youâ�?��?�re still having problems with this - you deserve some good luck by now.

Originally posted by TC'd Swazo:
To give an idea of how much freakin oil had been pumped into my exhaust system, my car has been up on jack stands for 3 days. There are 3 TINY pin holes in the cat-back and there are bread plate sized puddles of oil under them

I can only imagine how long it is going to take to burn off all of that damn oil

It won't do it at idle....It'll take a week! lol
You need to get out to a back road, engine on low boost and just run the heck out of it to get everything hot and burn it out. It can take a while with less oil so I can only imagine your situation.

Far as the PCV system, valve cover vents drawing air right after it is counted by the maf but before the turbo inlet. PCV feeding into the intake After the throttlebody plate. Same system as stock. Just a good stock contour pcv valve seals well enough if the engine is healthy. Use hose clamps on those hoses if they aren't tight fitting.

Originally posted by TC'd Swazo:
I drove around for about 10 minutes and I noticed that my boost gauge was reading that it was getting near 14 psi on the low setting, where before it read 10. I turned the EBC all the way down to be on the safe side.

I was driving around in 1st and 2nd to keep it rev'ing fairly high to really heat up the exhaust to burn the oil off. I am now shooting the front valve cover vent line off under boost Think that's a bad PCV setup, or worse?

If the compression test was consistent and you didn't have any issues running the test then don't worry about the cylinders. Oil consumption will be the only other way to check.

IF you have a bad PCV that doesn't seal reasonably well then you WILL pressurize the crank case under boost and blow lines off.
IF you are trying to draw air into the valve cover vents from AFTER the turbo then it will be under boost and will also pressurize the crankcase. That is bad. Atmospheric vent will be okay for full throttle but bad for driveability.

You must have a sealing PCV valve with a stock size weight/spring.
You must have the crankcase connected to a vent source that is not pressurized. You should have it drawing in air right after the air is counted by the maf. IF you have a blow-through maf then you won't be able to do it right and you will have to use atmospheric vent which will cause other issues. THen you will have to compensate for extra uncounted air going into the engine at idle and do it by hand.

As of right now, I have 2 nipples on my intake pipe (inbetween the turbo compressor inlet and MAF: draw-thru) and the PCV has one, the valve cover vents have the other. Both systems have their own oil seperator.

I know my POS "Lightning" (generic F-series, non-sealing metal POS) is not sealing much, if at all. I am going to get a motorcraft plastic Contour spec PCV that seals as a next step and reroute the PCV into the intake manifold rather than it's currant tap.

No oil consumption at all, and no oil in the oil seportators.

Originally posted by JEDsContour:
If it werenâ�?��?�t for your good compression numbers, I'd suspect there might be more to this than a turbo gasket. Is it possible thereâ�?��?�s a problem with your rings or cylinder walls that the compression test didnâ�?��?�t indicate?

Just to say it, I'm really sorry to read youâ�?��?�re still having problems with this - you deserve some good luck by now.

I'm really tempted to rent a leak down type tester to see if that is the case. Just because I can build compression, doesn't really mean I can retain it.

I am pretty burned out, but am keeping faith that it can be resolved

Originally posted by warmonger:
It won't do it at idle....It'll take a week! lol
You need to get out to a back road, engine on low boost and just run the heck out of it to get everything hot and burn it out. It can take a while with less oil so I can only imagine your situation.

Oh man, is it bad! While tooling around an industrial area, I was leaving a 1/2 mile long cloud! I was going back and forth and after doing my 3rd U-turn (no real wind at all to clear it out....) it was crazy on the amount of smoke!

I am so tempted to drop the cat-back, cap off the mufflers and fill the system with a simple green soloution and let it soak over night. Then uncap it and flush it out with fresh water. I don't want to smoke this badly for a week

Drop the cat-back system and then run the car and see if it still smokes

I'll do that while the cat-back is off the car, and after the revisions in the PCV setup. I'm just waiting on the stealership to be open tomorrow for a new PCV, but otherwise I am ready to test 'er out now. With the fresh downpipe, it shouldn't smoke at all. (Note: Love the open wastegate sound! Kinda like a mean raspy burp/growl

)

I didn't have time to wait for my downpipe to be TIG'd, so I rented a MIG setup and did it myself. I didn't want to risk doing it with my lame flux cored wire welder.

No pics yet, I got caught up in the process of getting everything done.

Originally posted by TC'd Swazo:
As of right now, I have 2 nipples on my intake pipe (inbetween the turbo compressor inlet and MAF: draw-thru) and the PCV has one, the valve cover vents have the other. Both systems have their own oil seperator.

I know my POS "Lightning" (generic F-series, non-sealing metal POS) is not sealing much, if at all. I am going to get a motorcraft plastic Contour spec PCV that seals as a next step and reroute the PCV into the intake manifold rather than it's currant tap.

No oil consumption at all, and no oil in the oil seportators.

That is half of your problem I'd bet!

PCV outlet (vacuum side) MUST be behind the throttlebody constantly having air drawn through it.
Once the manifold is pressurized by the turbo and the pressure reverses the PCV valve piston then it will seal off the crankcase from the pressure. Any excess blowby will push back out the valve cover vents into the turbo inlet and be drawn into the engine and burned.

If you are running your pcv outlet on the inlet to your turbo then you can't clear the blow-by when you are at idle and its pretty meager when you are cruising.

Originally posted by warmonger:

Originally posted by TC'd Swazo:
As of right now, I have 2 nipples on my intake pipe (inbetween the turbo compressor inlet and MAF: draw-thru) and the PCV has one, the valve cover vents have the other. Both systems have their own oil seperator.

I know my POS "Lightning" (generic F-series, non-sealing metal POS) is not sealing much, if at all. I am going to get a motorcraft plastic Contour spec PCV that seals as a next step and reroute the PCV into the intake manifold rather than it's currant tap.

No oil consumption at all, and no oil in the oil seportators.

That is half of your problem I'd bet!

PCV outlet (vacuum side) MUST be behind the throttlebody constantly having air drawn through it.
Once the manifold is pressurized by the turbo and the pressure reverses the PCV valve piston then it will seal off the crankcase from the pressure. Any excess blowby will push back out the valve cover vents into the turbo inlet and be drawn into the engine and burned.

If you are running your pcv outlet on the inlet to your turbo then you can't clear the blow-by when you are at idle and its pretty meager when you are cruising.

du da dah!!!

Correct: PCV should be direct to the intake maifold and the valve cover to the intake pipe BEFORE the turbo (after the MAF)

Originally posted by Stazi:
Correct: PCV should be direct to the intake maifold and the valve cover to the intake pipe BEFORE the turbo (after the MAF)

Just like stock ... the turbo should fit into the stock intake system between the throttle body and the "Idle Air Bypass Tube" correct?

Originally posted by fastcougar:

Originally posted by Stazi:
Correct: PCV should be direct to the intake maifold and the valve cover to the intake pipe BEFORE the turbo (after the MAF)

Just like stock ... the turbo should fit into the stock intake system between the throttle body and the "Idle Air Bypass Tube" correct?

No. The IAC bypass tube must be on the pressure side of the turbo as it will leak down pressure back into the low pressure side of the turbo. It also may damage the plunger.

You aren't using the IAC under load and definitely not under boost, so you want no pressure differential across it except at idle. At idle that would be controlled by the TB and the turbo would play no part in that.
So:
-PCV outlet into the manifold after the TB plate.

-Valve cover vent after the MAF and before the turbo compressor inlet.

-IAC tube after the turbo but before the throttlebody. Put it after the intercooler core if you have room, right next to your IAT sensor.

- Wastegate vacuum/pressure should be tapped right before the throttlebody, after the intercooler if you want to compensate for the pressure drop of the intercooler assembly before you open up the gate. This means that tapping off the turbo will open the turbo when the exducer pressure hits the same as the spring pressure. Then you will get a pressure drop across the intercooler and you will see lower pressure than your wastegate setting...most likely. If you do it after, then whatever pressure is hitting the throttle plate is applied to the wastegate, somewhat eliminating the pressure drop of the intercooler. Not a big deal either way, but worthy of mention and usefull if you don't use a boost controller.

- Blow-off should be tapped right after the throttlebody plate, same as the power brake booster and related vacuum lines.

Originally posted by fastcougar:
Just like stock ... the turbo should fit into the stock intake system between the throttle body and the "Idle Air Bypass Tube" correct?

Just for clarification ...

Stock System:
1) Air filter feeds into MAF
2) MAF feeds into intake tube
3) Valve cover breather vents feed into intake tube
4) IAC bypass tube feeds into IAC valve
5) intake tube feeds into Throttle Body

Boosted System:
1) Air filter feeds into MAF
2) MAF feeds into intake tube
3) Valve cover breather vents feed into intake tube
4) IAC bypass tube feeds into IAC valve
4b) intake tube feeds into Turbo inlet
4c) turbo inlet feeds into intercooler piping
5) intercooler piping feeds into Throttle Body

No. IAC bypass tube must come after the turbo, anywhere after the compressor will work.

OK, stopped by the stealership and checked the motorcraft Contour PCV and it didn't seal at all when I would blow on it. I had them bring all they had out, and only a few came close to even sealing. I'm sure the geezer thought I was crazy, but I'm dead set on resolving this stupid PCV issue TODAY

They're having a T-bird turbocoupe/Mustang SVO PCV delivered, which is the PCV of choice by aftermarket turbo mustang owners. I should know more in about 2 hours.

Originally posted by warmonger:
No. IAC bypass tube must come after the turbo, anywhere after the compressor will work.

So, like this:

Boosted System:
1) Air filter feeds into MAF
2) MAF feeds into intake tube
3) Valve cover breather vents feed into intake tube
3b) intake tube feeds into Turbo inlet
3c) turbo inlet feeds into intercooler piping
4) IAC bypass tube feeds into IAC valve before the Throttle Body
5) Intercooler piping feeds into Throttle Body

Where does the BOV fit ... after IAC or Before?

BOV can be anywhere between the TB and the Intercooler, before or after IAC - best is as close to the TB as reasonable as it help stop the pressure wave progressing further back towards the intercooler when the TB shuts.

Also to add to your piping description:
6)BOV attaches to I/C outlet piping, before TB
7)PCV feeds into Intake manifold.
8)SIGNAL to BOV is from the intake manifold.
9)SIGNAL to wastegate is from I/C piping right before TB.

I've got the motorcraft EV-127; T-Bird TC/Mustang SVO PCV valve. It seals against everything my lungs have to offer, so I think it's my best bet.

I'll be installing it and running around without my cat-back for today. I hope this solves my issues

On a second note, what would you guys flush an oil soaked exhaust system with? I'm thinking of getting 4 gallons of some bio-friendly degreaser from the auto parts store, cap the system off and top it off with water. Then I'll let it sit in the sun for a day or two and flush totally out. What do you all think, bad idea? There is a s$&% load of oil in it and I don't want to leave a massive cloud behind me as I drive any longer than I have to

Get on the freeway with a window banner that say "F!ck the EPA!" and drive the hell out of it until she stops smoking

I'd make a lot of friends doing that

Well the cat-back is dropped and the new PCV setup is inplace, and she's still smoking like a mo-fo. I drove around for 30 minutes and it consistantly smoked.

The front valve cover vent tube blew off again as I was making my way back to the shop and as soon as it did, the exhaust stopped smoking a little. I'm starting to think that it really is the damn shortblock.

I let my car cool down before I did another compression test, and the first plug I pulled was covered in oil

I've tried all I am willing to try with this car. I'm not sad really, just burned out. It would have been nice to have a daily driver turbo Contour, but it just did not work out in the end.

I am taking the car back to my shop tonight to begin parting Swazo out. I'll start listing items in the classifieds and on ebay within the week.

Thank you all for the support in building this car! CEG is an awesome forum with lots of great info and really great memebers.

At least confirm it with a leak down test ... let cooler heads prevail and don't jump off the deep end prematurely!

I tested the first bank in a standard compression test and got 25ish. Swazo is off to the shop now

thats sad to hear

.

Aaron

Originally posted by TC'd Swazo:
I tested the first bank in a standard compression test and got 25ish. Swazo is off to the shop now

Man that sucks!

boo

Originally posted by TC'd Swazo:
I tested the first bank in a standard compression test and got 25ish. Swazo is off to the shop now

Holy poop! that is depressing

... dibs on the headlights...

That SUCKS!

I'm pretty bummed about it. It was fun while it lasted

Your car is/was a work of art...I cannot believe you are gonna let a bad motor end this for you!

Originally posted by MapOfTaziFoShoâ�??¢:
Your car is/was a work of art...I cannot believe you are gonna let a bad motor end this for you!

X Eventy Billion...

I say take a break, then do what Tom and I did (I'm doing still

). Buy a regular Taurus 3L and drop her in + SVT cams. $500 and you'll be back on the road again. I know, the cost of the custom motor totally sucks, but Tom proved (and I hope to also) that the regular Taurus 3L is good for 350-400hp without fancy rods and pistons.

Originally posted by Stazi:
I say take a break, then do what Tom and I did (I'm doing still ). Buy a regular Taurus 3L and drop her in + SVT cams. $500 and you'll be back on the road again. I know, the cost of the custom motor totally sucks, but Tom proved (and I hope to also) that the regular Taurus 3L is good for 350-400hp without fancy rods and pistons.

And if you want to go the bullet-proof route, I have a complete longblock for sale ... check out the link in my signature ... maybe we can work out a deal?

A sad day indeed.....

Originally posted by Stazi:
I say take a break, then do what Tom and I did (I'm doing still ). Buy a regular Taurus 3L and drop her in + SVT cams. $500 and you'll be back on the road again. I know, the cost of the custom motor totally sucks, but Tom proved (and I hope to also) that the regular Taurus 3L is good for 350-400hp without fancy rods and pistons.

Do it! Do it!

Originally posted by MapOfTaziFoShoâ�??¢:
Your car is/was a work of art...I cannot believe you are gonna let a bad motor end this for you!

+1 your car is an inspiration dude!

Originally posted by TC'd Swazo:
I let my car cool down before I did another compression test, and the first plug I pulled was covered in oil

I've tried all I am willing to try with this car. I'm not sad really, just burned out. It would have been nice to have a daily driver turbo Contour, but it just did not work out in the end.

I am taking the car back to my shop tonight to begin parting Swazo out. I'll start listing items in the classifieds and on ebay within the week.

Thank you all for the support in building this car! CEG is an awesome forum with lots of great info and really great memebers.

Well, if you change your mind, it is Just a Shortblock away from fun, maybe $400.

Since you are going to have to work to part it out, you might want to think about fixing it.

Also, if you fix it then you can sell it for quite a bit more than you can now.
Just take a few weeks break while you see how you feel in a little while.

Also, sorry that it turned out to be that.

I don't know why you didn't pick that up the first time you ran the compression test.

Originally posted by warmonger:
Just take a few weeks break while you see how you feel in a little while.

I concur. Why put all that money and effort into something, just to get a fraction of it back with parting it out? You've been racking your brain pretty hard lately, so it sounds like you just need a little break. Take a couple weeks to yourself man, you'll change your mind.

Mark

Thanks for all of the ideas/options guys. I've just got too much going on to keep tinkering with Swazo. I have a frame off restoration on my 1964 Chevrolet Impala SS to compete with "tinkering time" and I am setting myself up for a move from Utah to Florida.

Don't think that this is the end. I'm coming away from this with.... ideas

Originally posted by TC'd Swazo:
Thanks for all of the ideas/options guys. I've just got too much going on to keep tinkering with Swazo. I have a frame off restoration on my 1964 Chevrolet Impala SS to compete with "tinkering time" and I am setting myself up for a move from Utah to Florida.

Don't think that this is the end. I'm coming away from this with.... ideas

I Guess he's serious about getting out (I've been there in the past too - but for different reasons). Just bought $950 in parts from his ad, Aussie bar and Koni struts/H&R springs...

I hope I have better luck with my turbo project this fall.

Originally posted by Quick_SVT:

Originally posted by MapOfTaziFoShoâ�??¢:
Your car is/was a work of art...I cannot believe you are gonna let a bad motor end this for you!

+1 your car is an inspiration dude!

Swazo...take some time off. I have gotten to a point where I have a hard time quitting these cars simply because I know them so well. I am sure you are pised, but just take a few weeks off and then get back into it!

"I wish I could quit you.." *looks at Turbo 3L in garage*

I was thinking about this last night while scrambling to finish my car:

How can your valve cover tubes be blowing off? I ask, because in theory, even if there is pressure under the valve covers, the vacuum from the intake BEFORE the turbo (where the hoses from the valve covers should be plummed too) SHOULD provide enough suction to evacuate the pressure under the valve covers, so much so, that they wouldn't build up enough pressure to blow off. That's what doesn't make sense. I want to say he has something all f'ed up with the plumbing (taking a stab here).

Once, when I first had the turbo 2.5, I thought I'd try routing the valve cover vents into the system, but I screwed up and plummed my valve covers into the pressurized side of the intake and the car ran at first and then after a while it BARELY ran - it was misfirely blowing smoke and seem like it was ready to die. What I was doing was pusing oil up past the rings into the combustion chamber due to my FUBAR.

Before you say to hell with it, can you please post a series of photos showing the route from each valve cover tube - to where it enters your intake tract?

No kidding. Does seem awfully strange to just say fugg it. All of this time and money. Why would all these new parts just sh!t the bed?

It's hard to argue with 25psi on the front bank being a plumbing problem.

I haven't posted everything that I've tried before throwing in the towel.

What happend:
I was driving the car for hours trying different things and giving them time to see if they'd take.
1. I dropped the cat back, replumbed the PCV into the intake, capped off the nipple on the intake pipe (between the MAF and turbo) while leaving the valve cover vents tapped into the intake
Results: Smoked non-stop, boost was reading very high and it wouldn't idle without dying. To start the MOFO, I had to floor it and it would sputter to life. Even the actual cranking sounded different. Rather than a consisent cranking, it sounded like atleast a couple of cylinders had no compression and weren't putting out resistance while cranking over. Once it got to operating temps, it ran like s$*% and wanted to die. WOT runs would shoot the front valve cover vent off at the OEM connector and a nitrous like purge spray out of my vented hood would shoot up

Keeping the car running by actuating the TB by hand while having the hood popped, I opened up the oil cap and it'd hiss from the pressure change and puff smoke at a high rate.

2. I let the car cool down. I bypassed the intake tube's 2 nipples to seal the intake up. I vented the valve cover vents to atmosphere, leaving the tubes inplace but disconnected from it's oil seperator.
NOTHING changed. The I.D. of the OEM valve cover vent was enough resistance to do the exact samething under a WOT run.

This is when I did the 2nd compression test only to find what I had.

I'm just pissed off about having a bogus compression test that got my hopes up enough to dump another $750 into this car.

This isn't a sudden change of heart. I've been building this car up since the end of '02. I do not have the time, space or patients that this car has needed over the years. I don't want to see my car float from hand to hand like Hector's SC'd zetec.

Originally posted by Keyser:
It's hard to argue with 25psi on the front bank being a plumbing problem.

True, but what's strange is his extremely high readings 2 weeks and then all of a sudden these readings when nothing has changed with the car's "smoking" problem. One sure fire way to tell would be to pull the UIM and see what the LIM/UIM passages look like. This would tell if the oil where coming from the intake system or from the cylinder.

I feel like an ER Doctor:

Wait he's not done yet, give him 3 shots of epi - stat!

Breathe damn you!! Breathe!!!!!

OK Doc (

)...
These are pics that I have on file, but nothing has changed in the setup besides the PCV is routed into the intake manifold, and the nipple it once used was capped.

Also, look what the fedex guy just dropped off

Yes, those are tears. Sorry if the pic was somewhat blurry, but I was sobbing.

Man, I really wish I had something intelligent to add. I've been following this thread for a while hoping you get if figured out. The tears pics made me so sad for you.

LMAO, you guys are more bummed out about this than I am

Edit:
Look, I've poured my heart and soul into this car for a few years. I love this car on a creepy level, but one has to know when to move on. I've tried everything I could, but to have a custom built engine take a s$%^ on you after 1000 miles can be a deal breaker on a project like this. I know I could drop another 3L in there with my sweet heads, but that's more work than I have time for. In the end, it won't make my car more valuable as it'll be another $1K when all said and done.

So in a crazy ex fashion, if I can't have Turbo Swazo..... NO ONE CAN

Fatal attraction anyone?

Someone help me understand this: Why remove the PCV tube and re-route it into the intake track before the TB?

Originally posted by fastcougar:
Someone help me understand this: Why remove the PCV tube and re-route it into the intake track before the TB?

I think that is how it WAS, and then he put it into the intake MANIFOLD, itself - at least I hope so, otherwise when you would let of the gas, there'd be this sudden surge of pressure into the crank case until the BOV opens.

I'll draw a CORRECT tube routing on paper if someone will host it?

I can host it

Email me mark, and I'll email you the pic: anastazi.sarigiannis@skf.com

sent

I ran it that way and even posted pics 2 months ago. No one piped up then and I have mentioned countless times within this thread on how I had it ran.

I have a t-bird turbocoupe PCV that seals very well installed that runs through an oil seperator and into the intake manifold now.

Those pics are of how it used to be run.

I just ran mine to atmosphere. No issues.

... and it seemed that Stazi didn't have issues with his 2.5L ran that way either.

Could I have caused my engine to crap out by running the PCV the way I had for an extended period of time?

Not sure.
I never ran my PCV to atmo, just the valve covers and I had a CONSTANT lean code (I think because of that).

Pressurizing the crankcase can't be good, but I am not sure if it would damage a cylinder or not.

EDIT: I am making a nerw post in this section with my vacuum schematic.

My PCV was never ran to atmosphere. Initially I had it ran into the intake mani, and the valvecover vents to atmosphere. I just had some small streetable issues with it that way, but tuning would have cleared that up.

I must have misunderstood what Tom was saying, but I switched over to the setup with them both tied into the intake pipe between the MAF & turbo. At first, I thought it was amazing how much better the car ran, but it was downhill from there

Originally posted by getsum111:
Man, I really wish I had something intelligent to add. I've been following this thread for a while hoping you get if figured out. The tears pics made me so sad for you.

OK, the sobbing part was a joke. I'm not THAT crazy

How much do you want for the whole car as is!?

By the time SZ is over, Swazo will be a shell

Quote:

How much do you want for the whole car as is!?

It's already half sold. He didn't want to sell it as a hole.

Originally posted by TC'd Swazo:
By the time SZ is over, Swazo will be a shell

How much for the shell?

Originally posted by Judge:

Originally posted by TC'd Swazo:
By the time SZ is over, Swazo will be a shell

How much for the shell?

Yeah, that was my question as well

When I say shell, it will be THE shell/unibody without suspension, interior parts, etc. It'll still have doors and glass.... but not much more than that. It's TOTALLY RUST FREE (underside, body.....everything is clean), so if one were building something wicked in this platform this shell would be a perfect starting point.

If you (or anyone for that matter...) are interested, please feel free to PM me.

Man that looks like a lot of work to tear it down to a shell, think you'll come out better then just selling it to a new builder?

I already have

I already tried to get the whole thing a little while back. As much as I am disapointed that it ended up this way and don't agree with it I can also see where it is coming from.