ADC kit question - CEG Archives

If i remember correctly if you get the turbo kit through ADC you can buy an upgrade package which increases to turbo to a t3/t4 as well as all equipment needed.

Originally posted by 5V7 Dr1v3r627:
If i remember correctly if you get the turbo kit through ADC you can buy an upgrade package which increases to turbo to a t3/t4 as well as all equipment needed.

But the flange for the turbo piping is completely diff from t-28 to t3/t4

This is what you want... GT28RLS (something like that)

Originally posted by MapOfTaziFoShoâ�??¢:

Originally posted by 5V7 Dr1v3r627:
If i remember correctly if you get the turbo kit through ADC you can buy an upgrade package which increases to turbo to a t3/t4 as well as all equipment needed.

But the flange for the turbo piping is completely diff from t-28 to t3/t4

This is what you want... GT28RLS (something like that)

http://photos-227.facebook.com/n5/227/n2306597_30151227_8397.jpg

But don't those suckers go for around $700

Yeah, so he sells the standard t 28 for 4-5 bills!

Originally posted by MapOfTaziFoShoâ�??¢:

Originally posted by 5V7 Dr1v3r627:
If i remember correctly if you get the turbo kit through ADC you can buy an upgrade package which increases to turbo to a t3/t4 as well as all equipment needed.

But the flange for the turbo piping is completely diff from t-28 to t3/t4

This is what you want... GT28RLS (something like that)

Boys, that is a GT3071R it'll stomp all over a GT28RLS - that, my friends is a 450 hp turbo!

EDIT: Yes if you have a T28 kit and want to step up to a 3L you can do it easily by looking for a similar turbo to what I found, with a T28 (T25) turbine flange/s then you do not need to modify the pipes whatsoever.

Doesn't the 3L kit come with larger piping? Would a turbo swap with the same flange be the only change needed. Of course the injectors would need to be upped to the 42's if they were 24's though.

There is no kit as of right now. It is going to be re-tooled for a more cost effective set up. You can only find one used at the moment.

Originally posted by Keyser:
There is no kit as of right now. It is going to be re-tooled for a more cost effective set up. You can only find one used at the moment.

Hopefully it happens soon, not everyone can fork over 6k for a turbo.

Quick question: How do you loose money selling a turbo kit for $6K when you are the ONLY supplier of such a kit for such a make/model? Off base I know, but I just don't understand's Shawn's (Sean's - sp?) comment earlier this month about loosing money on these kits.

They probably mean they are lsoing money in opportunity cost. If they do something else they can more MORE money doing it. It's not that they are "losing" money on the kits...they just aren't making as much money doing that vs. something like dyno tuning, etc.

I can't blame them. If i was doing something that was not as profitable as other parts of my business and i wanted to make as much money as possible i would drop it too...or find another way to make the kit cheaper...like they are currently doing.

Yup... If I dropped $7k for a turbo kit, you'd see me on the news... dead! If I dropped $3500 on it, I might just be mildly maimed... but recoverable. For some reason, the wifey doesn't agree with my priorities

Both ADC kits are still on their website. I'm tempted to just hit the "buy now" button on the T28 kit and see if they accept the sale!

Rotten timing for me. They decide to stop production of this kit literally days before I take delivery of a low mileage 99 SVT.

Thereâ�?��?�s a â�?��?genuine ADC turbo kit, never usedâ�?� for sale in the classifieds (minus instructions). Iâ�?��?�ve been in contact with the seller, but my gut is telling me to pass it by. The guy is too disorganized and does not clearly answer questions. If it were a local sale and I could inspect and inventory the parts in person... different story.

Whatever ADC does with a future kit, I hope they keep the option for an air to water intercooler. Water injection doesnâ�?��?�t appeal to me. Plenty of arguments in favor of it I know.

What would happen if you put a T28 kit on a 3L? Would it run out of steam at the top end?

Probably. If you made everything as efficient as possible you probably could make it work just fine, assuming midrange power was more important than top end.
Its just that on the SVT, you really want your power from 4000-7000 rpm, like the stock power curve from the cams.

You don't want tons of low end torque because the gearing on the car is good enough to get it rolling and up into your powerband.
That way off boost driveability will be good but top end will be killer.

If I dropped 8k on a.... Sorry just following the trend. The uneducated young ones with McD's jobs are flocking to the FI Forum.

Originally posted by todras:
If I dropped 8k on a.... Sorry just following the trend. The uneducated young ones with McD's jobs are flocking to the FI Forum.

ROFL

Yep! I'm following your thought pattern, or at least I think I am. 8K and still end up with only a T28 on a 3L.....

Originally posted by warmonger:

Originally posted by todras:
If I dropped 8k on a.... Sorry just following the trend. The uneducated young ones with McD's jobs are flocking to the FI Forum.

ROFL

Yep! I'm following your thought pattern, or at least I think I am. 8K and still end up with only a T28 on a 3L.....

I think I've got more money wrapped up in tires in the 5-1/2 years I've owned this car, than most of the noobs have into their entire car. And they want to talk about expensive.

Mark

Originally posted by JEDsContour:
Both ADC kits are still on their website. I'm tempted to just hit the "buy now" button on the T28 kit and see if they accept the sale!

Rotten timing for me. They decide to stop production of this kit literally days before I take delivery of a low mileage 99 SVT.

Thereâ�?��?�s a â�?��?genuine ADC turbo kit, never usedâ�?� for sale in the classifieds (minus instructions). Iâ�?��?�ve been in contact with the seller, but my gut is telling me to pass it by. The guy is too disorganized and does not clearly answer questions. If it were a local sale and I could inspect and inventory the parts in person... different story.

Whatever ADC does with a future kit, I hope they keep the option for an air to water intercooler. Water injection doesnâ�?��?�t appeal to me. Plenty of arguments in favor of it I know.

The only turbo kit for sale in the classifieds is Scott's and it is used...as far as the owner being trustworthy...I've known him for 5+ years and that car and turbo kit is at Todd's right now. That car has been worked on by Stazi too...there is more than enough 'big names' on CEG to look it over.

I don't think he's talking about me, thanks though Pete

There are 2 kits listed in Classifieds. One is new and one is not.

Originally posted by 99cougar:
They probably mean they are lsoing money in opportunity cost. If they do something else they can more MORE money doing it. It's not that they are "losing" money on the kits...they just aren't making as much money doing that vs. something like dyno tuning, etc.

I can't blame them. If i was doing something that was not as profitable as other parts of my business and i wanted to make as much money as possible i would drop it too...or find another way to make the kit cheaper...like they are currently doing.

See, I don't see any other way to interprit this statement by ADC less than 2 weeks ago

Originally posted by ArizonaDynoChip:
For those running are current turbo kit, you will be the only ones since we have decided to stop producing the current turbo kits. Basically we lose money on every kit we have built.

This quote comes from this post .

I wonder if they would still be producing the piping? they have the jigs for them and thats one of the hardest parts from what I hear

ahh nvm just read the rest of that thread...

Originally posted by MapOfTaziFoShoâ�??¢:
The only turbo kit for sale in the classifieds is Scott's and it is used...as far as the owner being trustworthy...I've known him for 5+ years and that car and turbo kit is at Todd's right now. That car has been worked on by Stazi too...there is more than enough 'big names' on CEG to look it over.

Not the kit I was referring to.

So what is the real difference between using a T28 kit vs a T3/T4 kit?

I was talking to ADC and using the T28 kit with 42lb injectors and a 255 walbro pump has netted them 320fwhp.

I see that Tom with his budget build T3/T4 setup netted 350fwhp. Granted he said he needs to do some more tuning.

Then there is DanG who has the T3/T4 setup with 314fwhp posted in NECO's 3L section.

What is the point in going with the 3L kit over the 2.5L kit? I don't see much of a differenct between Dan's numbers and the T28 kit ADC used on a 3L. Is it worth the $500 upgrade if someone had to choose between the two?

I know there are much more factors involved such as dyno types, suppporting mods, temp and humidity that day but in all honesty I would have assumed the T28 kit would crap out at say 260-280hp max.

Chris

I pretty much well maxed out my T28 and hit 295fwhp. Getting 320 would be with REALLLLY good intercooling and realistically you right on the ragged edgew of the efficiency for the T28 at that HP. Basically for a 3L the T28 is too small.

Then what were they talking about? What you are stating is what I would assume would happen. I was thrown for a loop when they told me 320fwhp easy.

I guess you could hit 320 on a T28, but that would be on a dyno with cool water running through the I/C (i.e. the source of the extra 25hp), but why bother? If you want that much hp step up to the T3/T4 kit and doing it without pumping hot-as-hell air thourgh the intercooler, that way you could achieve the same power, and more, with less thermal stress on the combustion chamber and internal due to a lower intake temp.

So another drawback would be the extra heat generated by the smaller turbo. Why would there be any extra heat with the T28 vs the T3/T4 unless you are boosting the hell out of it to get the power up there. I'll try and get some more specifics on the run they were talking about (psi, supporting mods, etc).

I believe that's just what Stazi was talking about. It may take a T-28 turbo, 16lbs of boost, to do what a T3/T4 can do in 10lbs. That isn't exact, and depends on what trim you use, but it's an example. This is why telling someone how much boost you run, doesn't really give any inclination as to what kind of power you're putting out. 8lbs of boost, isn't just 8lbs of boost.

Mark

Originally posted by Y2KSVT:
I believe that's just what Stazi was talking about. It may take a T-28 turbo, 16lbs of boost, to do what a T3/T4 can do in 10lbs. That isn't exact, and depends on what trim you use, but it's an example. This is why telling someone how much boost you run, doesn't really give any inclination as to what kind of power you're putting out. 8lbs of boost, isn't just 8lbs of boost.

Mark

Exactly. It's all about where on the compressor efficiency table you are running. You will find that running a turbo with a bigger compressor housing at say 8psi would net the same as running a smaller turbo at say 12psi, all because the air coming out of the turbo at 12psi will be hotter, therefore less dense. Heat retention/input is a turbo engine's enemy.

Sure a T28 will do 320 CRANK hp but not wheels.

Shawn at ADC did say 320fwhp but 320hp crank sounds more like it. So that's ~270 crank. I believe that.

Thanks,
Chris

Once again I'll state for the record - I got 295FWHP. So that is possible if you a crazy bastage like me. Now, is that enough for me? Hell no!

On a 3L engine or the stock SVT?

Originally posted by Blackcoog:
So what is the real difference between using a T28 kit vs a T3/T4 kit?

I was talking to ADC and using the T28 kit with 42lb injectors and a 255 walbro pump has netted them 320fwhp.

I see that Tom with his budget build T3/T4 setup netted 350fwhp. Granted he said he needs to do some more tuning.

Then there is DanG who has the T3/T4 setup with 314fwhp posted in NECO's 3L section.

What is the point in going with the 3L kit over the 2.5L kit? I don't see much of a differenct between Dan's numbers and the T28 kit ADC used on a 3L. Is it worth the $500 upgrade if someone had to choose between the two?

I know there are much more factors involved such as dyno types, suppporting mods, temp and humidity that day but in all honesty I would have assumed the T28 kit would crap out at say 260-280hp max.

Chris

Ummm there is a HUGE difference. That 320 would be at the max end of what you can get out of it, probably had umpteen runs to get everything just right and maybe high octane gas. The standard T28 is just out of its league when you start breaking into that range. Also, what pressure did it make that at? Was that on a 3L or 2.5L?

I'm here to tell you that just looking at torque curves, a mildly blown 3L just performs so much better than a fully blown 2.5L too. But whatever.

2.5 SVT

Originally posted by Stazi:
2.5 SVT

Hey...did ya see what I got on a bone stock 3L....

Huh, Dija???

Yes, I did. Hence why I'm following suit.

Hmmmmm so in that case a 3L swapped in in the same situation should put out more power. Honestly I'm just curious what the T28 would do on a 3L. I know there is a 3L kit for a reason. It doesn't seem like the extra power is put to good use though. Why add the extra power when you can't put it to the ground anyway unless you just want to impress people with numbers?

Originally posted by Blackcoog:
So what is the real difference between using a T28 kit vs a T3/T4 kit?

I was talking to ADC and using the T28 kit with 42lb injectors and a 255 walbro pump has netted them 320fwhp.

The T28 is limited in airflow significantly compared to the moderate size and up T3/4's.

ADC did NOT get 320 wheels from a T28 kit. They best numbers they made were 300.8FWHP & 287.6FWTQ on race fuel and it was at the limit of the timing curve to get it. The turbo was stalling badly and the intercooler in the kit was grossly undersized for those power levels. (I have the dyno run)

The intercooler in the T28 kit is two small for a T3/4. Proof of that is in back to back testing on Chris's new engine (with a T3/4 57 trim IIRC) by changing the intercooler alone it picked up over 30 FWHP/TQ at the wheels. (roughly 390 vs 360 to quote max power) However it did this throughout the entire powerband. Then again I had always "naysayed" the intercooler in the kit was tiny! (Tom uses a much larger core on his 3L btw

)

So is the intercooler in the 3L kit any larger or is it the same one which is still undersized?

Originally posted by Blackcoog:
So is the intercooler in the 3L kit any larger or is it the same one which is still undersized?

Its larger. It flows about 700 cfm.

Originally posted by warmonger:

Originally posted by Stazi:
2.5 SVT

Hey...did ya see what I got on a bone stock 3L....

Huh, Dija???

yeah...nice

Well, just to put it in perspective.

A 3L engine bone stock with just a cheap, properly sized t3/4 turbo, basic intercooler, and the stock ~6 pound spring in the wastegate will allow you to throw down 300 wheel horsepower basically any time and anywhwhere! This is on the crappiest gas you can find too.

That T28 will be huffing out 14 pounds of boost on race gas with ice in the intercooler tank to make over 300 wheel horsepower....and ball bearing T28 cost a bunch more too!
Hell, just putting a bigger turbo on the 2.5L can do the same thing but you'd need about 9-10psi in order to do it.

The thing I've been saying for years now is to make a plan with proper goals. Then use the most direct and cost effective plan to get your goal. Ideally do it in stages if money or time is an issue so that you can actually get some usage out of the car after each mod you do. You'll be able to iron out bugs in the setup easier and be more satisfying.............rather than just pulling an SVTProdigy and going for the Gold on your first time through, and not even placing in the finish.

I think I can back this statement up:

T3/T4 hybrid "ebay special" running on a 2.5L SVT engine with a completely blown piston. You have seen the pictures ... haven't you? No, here you go:

Basically, a 2.5L engine running on 5 cylinders and she still put down 220whp! Now imagine running on all 6

For the record, I couldn't get the car to boost over 4.5psi. Not sure it that is because all the boost was leaking past that cylinder or because of the crappy wastegate design. Regardless, she ran like SH!T on 5 cylinders with minimal boost and still managed decent numbers considering.

Well, did YOU do the dyno or was that what the company said it dyno'd at? It may have been getting something out of that cylinder when it dyno'd 220. Maybe not.
I would expect it to still be able to fire under boost since the pistons was still reasonably whole though.

The turbo was cramming in more air than could escape past the wrecked piston.