What compression ratio are you running?

8.8:1

Twin turbo

Originally posted by gotapex:
8.8:1

Twin turbo

Yeah sure, I bet it's also mid-engined with rear wheel drive

Originally posted by warmonger :
Okay, I run 10:1, the stock 3L compression. The best compression to run for these engines is IMHO between 9 and 10 to 1 for a turbo. For the supercharger I think it is best to stay at 10:1.

Thanks. That was exactly what I was looking for. Do you think the factory HO 2.5L pistons can hold up to 10psi as well?

Originally posted by gotapex:
8.8:1

Twin turbo

I don't suppose you have pics of that somewhere (previous post or something)? Sounds pretty crazy.

You really need to search better, honestly.

Nonetheless

1)gotapex has a Noble, hence the twin turbo (search gotapex in the Pics forum

)

2)I ran 12psi on a stock 2000 SVT (but not for much longer - going 3L) - but if you have a pre-2000 Duratech, running more than 10psi is probably gonna get you a broken piston seal land...the early pistons have a thinner, weeker top land than has broken on quite a few CEGers running boost. And yes, that is bad.

9.5:1 (accomplished with headwork, combustion chambers were CC matched as well) with +1mm SP pistons (not forged, but better than OEM) in my turbo 3L.

Originally posted by CSVT#49:
Do you think the factory HO 2.5L pistons can hold up to 10psi as well?

Piston Durability Thread stickied at top of 3.0L Branch

Originally posted by Stazi:
You really need to search better, honestly.

Nonetheless

1)gotapex has a Noble, hence the twin turbo (search gotapex in the Pics forum )

2)I ran 12psi on a stock 2000 SVT (but not for much longer - going 3L) - but if you have a pre-2000 Duratech, running more than 10psi is probably gonna get you a broken piston seal land...the early pistons have a thinner, weeker top land than has broken on quite a few CEGers running boost. And yes, that is bad.

Ditto. What he said.

If I were you, 6-7 pounds max on pre-2000 ifyou want it to last.

Originally posted by warmonger:

Originally posted by Stazi:
You really need to search better, honestly.

Nonetheless

1)gotapex has a Noble, hence the twin turbo (search gotapex in the Pics forum )

2)I ran 12psi on a stock 2000 SVT (but not for much longer - going 3L) - but if you have a pre-2000 Duratech, running more than 10psi is probably gonna get you a broken piston seal land...the early pistons have a thinner, weeker top land than has broken on quite a few CEGers running boost. And yes, that is bad.

Ditto. What he said.

If I were you, 6-7 pounds max on pre-2000 ifyou want it to last.

Scotts 98 SVT lasted 26k miles on 8 psi. Just one ref

My 2000 CSVT lasted 22k miles with boost on stock internals. Then it went boom, piston cracked in half. I'll get pictures when they get the heads off. So now I have a 3L with 9:1 CR before headwork, which will probably drop it down to about 8.5-8.75:1 CR. All i know, it's gonna let me turn up the boost with the larger turbo and extreme tunability. Tuning is where reliability comes in. Provided you don't excede the limits of the strength from the overall cylinder pressure.

Robert

I agree. Tuning is the most important part of this boost/piston equation! Do you think yours failed partly because it wasn't tuned to its best?
Or was it tuned well and you think it failed because it just wasn't forged. Who tuned it, what kind of FI kit did you use and what boost level? What kind of MAF and injectors?

Originally posted by warmonger:
I agree. Tuning is the most important part of this boost/piston equation! Do you think yours failed partly because it wasn't tuned to its best?
Or was it tuned well and you think it failed because it just wasn't forged. Who tuned it, what kind of FI kit did you use and what boost level? What kind of MAF and injectors?

It was tuned by ADC(I'm not a large fan of mail order tuning) and it's a ADC turbo kit. It used to be Alan's (wavrdr) car. The car was tuned for higher than pump gas. Alan used to run the car on a mix of av-gas and pump. So the timing was pretty far advanced. But the piston itself is cracked right down the middle, which we think led to catastrophic rod failure. The boost level was never taken about 8 PSI because it was on stock internals. I had been told the stocks could handle 10 PSI without an issue, but with the tune that was on the car, I was not going to push my luck. It's running a stock MAF and 24# injectors. The injectors are now being upgraded to about a 96# and the MAF is being removed in favor for a MAP sensor. I'm going for the reliability with drivability and the power to crush those who challenge me.

Robert

Originally posted by RobSVT-t:
I'm going for the reliability with drivability and the power to crush those who challenge me.

Robert

I'm missing the trans uprades for your crushing.
96# injectors. LMFAO!!!!!!

Drivetrain:
Arizona Dyno Chip turbo kit(intercooled with Turbo XS HP MBC)
DiabloSport Delta Chip
3" Custom built exhaust w/ Borla Muffler
post 00' tranny with Centerforce DF clutch/Quaife
Stage 2 DSS axles
DMD
65MM TB ported/polished
port matched UIM/LIM/head inlets with countersunk secondary screws
TurboXS Duel Stage High performance Boost Controller

Originally posted by RobSVT-t:
The injectors are now being upgraded to about a 96# and the MAF is being removed in favor for a MAP sensor. I'm going for the reliability with drivability and the power to crush those who challenge me.

Robert

WTF?!? Why don't you just piss gasoline straight into the cylinders? How the hell do you plan to make 96# injectors work, and what in the world power goals do you have to require such a setup? LOL

Rick

Originally posted by Buckshot77:

Originally posted by RobSVT-t:
The injectors are now being upgraded to about a 96# and the MAF is being removed in favor for a MAP sensor. I'm going for the reliability with drivability and the power to crush those who challenge me.

Robert

WTF?!? Why don't you just piss gasoline straight into the cylinders? How the hell do you plan to make 96# injectors work, and what in the world power goals do you have to require such a setup? LOL

Rick

Eleven Million HP.

That's "eleventy million"

I too saw that 96# comment and laughed my ass off. WTF would you need such a monster of an injector for? I guess idling isn't even necessary? Talk about f'ed up either you got the numbers wrong in your head, or if you really do intend on using a 96# injector, well, you're retarded.

I'm also curious about the trans mods - I see none.

EDIT: I also see you comment about a MAP sensor - why/how are you gonna do this without a complete stand-alone? Dude I think you've been reading Import Tuner mag a little too much.

I have a standalone engine management going in. So that'll take care of the control of those big puppies. I have a spec stage 3+ going in. I'm looking to make around 500 whp. I'm also upgrading the turbo and intercooler. I'm going places on this car most people wouldn't want to or dare to. I'm doing some things that have been denounced by many people on this board. But hey, if everyone conformed to the popular opinion, no one would be different. I like being different and unique.

Robert

Ps: 96# = 720cc Not that large.

BTW, I haven't updated the cardomain page.

Six of those is WAY too big. Dude it WILL NOT idle worth a crap, regardless of the engine management. Injectors that large simply can not be run at such miniscule flow rates that are required at idle. REMEMBER this is not a 4 cylinder so what the Honda clowns are doing does not directly compare.

Also a new clutch aint good enough without a LSD and rebuilt shift towner and synchros you're hosed.

I would LOVE to know what calcs you did to come up with 96lb injectors - that gets you in excess of 900hp (921hp to be more exact). Pretty damn ridiculous is you ask me. You can get close to 500whp with 42's. A 96lb/hr is a 1008cc/min injector dufus!

Originally posted by RobSVT-t:
I have a spec stage 3+ going in.

LMMFAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Oh look at the big brain on Rob.

Originally posted by todras:
LMMFAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Oh look at the big brain on Rob.

I see that you have seen Pulp Fiction one too many times (as I have) - lol

If the injectors become a problem, then i'll change them, but I wanna try and get these larger ones to work. The tranny does have everything upgraded. That was all done by a Ford dealership when Alan ownded the car. It has the shift tower, synchro's, and LSD.

Robert

BTW, if you wanna know more, IM me on aim @ RobCSVT. I don't wanna hijack this thread anymore than what it already is.

Originally posted by RobSVT-t:
If the injectors become a problem, then i'll change them, but I wanna try and get these larger ones to work. The tranny does have everything upgraded. That was all done by a Ford dealership when Alan ownded the car. It has the shift tower, synchro's, and LSD.

Robert

BTW, if you wanna know more, IM me on aim @ RobCSVT. I don't wanna hijack this thread anymore than what it already is.

You REALLLLLLLLLLYYYYYYYY need to read up on injector sizing and the drawbacks of increasing injector size. You're so disconnected that it's funny.

Once again, tell me WHY you think you need injectors that large. Remember 6 of those (96#) injectors at a max duty cycle of 80% will support 921hp. There is absolutely NO need for injectors that big on this platform. Even if you could build a Duratech strong enough to make 900hp there's not way in hell an MTX could put that to the wheels without exploding.

Originally posted by RobSVT-t:

Ps: 96# = 720cc Not that large.

FYI, Lightnings and Cobras come with 42#'ers and they are sufficient to ~450rwhp on the L and probably a bit more on the Snake.....

Hey Rob, are you working with SVTProdigy on this setup? I bet you two could make it work together! Oh my damn this is just too funny.

Rick

Originally posted by Buckshot77:
Hey Rob, are you working with SVTProdigy on this setup? I bet you two could make it work together! Oh my damn this is just too funny.

Rick

RIck I was thinking the same thing. I was thinking "SVT Prodigy #2"

I have a box of bolts. Anyone want to tell me where they go?

Originally posted by Buckshot77:
Hey Rob, are you working with SVTProdigy on this setup? I bet you two could make it work together! Oh my damn this is just too funny.

Rick

what ever happened to him and his pictures o' parts?

Rob - Please reconsider your position as it will cost you money in the end. If you want to be safer than safe go with 50# injectors. They are more than sufficient and you can get it to idle with those. As for the stand alone...I'm curious as to how you will get the returnless fuel system to work? The EEC V is a very powerful ECU and is more than capable of your goals. I suggest sticking with it.

A trans upgrade is definately necessary, concentrate some funds there. You will need some way to get the power to the pavement. Power without control is worthless. When I was 325fwhp daily driver it was borderline too much.

Wow I agree you that the idling will be hard to get by on. I have 50# injectors and it was harder for Keyser to tune. I can do more than 600 whp with mine and don't think the tranny could hold that to well. Overkill plus will probably stall alot too.

This thread is getting pretty funny. 96# injectors???? I'm guessing they were a freebie, or he found them dirt cheap and figured he'd throw them in? Why not sell them and buy some 42# or 50# injectors? Also, why go through all of the trouble of a stand alone fuel management system, when SCT has the Pro Racer Package that will do everything you want it to do? Anyway, I guess this is what happens when you have a 17/18 year old with a fast car and too much money.

Mark

Originally posted by RTStabler51:

Originally posted by RobSVT-t:

Ps: 96# = 720cc Not that large.

FYI, Lightnings and Cobras come with 42#'ers and they are sufficient to ~450rwhp on the L and probably a bit more on the Snake.....

That's with 8 injectors instead of our 6. So 450rwhp with 8 = 338 rwhp with 6.

338 with 6 comes out to 34# to me. We already did over 400whp with 42lb injectors and still had fuel.

42*0.8*2*6=405hp

405 / 6 * .6 = 40.6

Originally posted by Keyser:
338 with 6 comes out to 34# to me. We already did over 400whp with 42lb injectors and still had fuel.

Yeah, I was merely commenting on RTStabler51's post about lightnings & cobras. If they do up to 450 rear wheel hp with eight 42# injectors, then the equivalent with six would be:

450 x 6 / 8 = 337.5

I'm already well over this too with my 42# injectors.

One issue I think, when we start pushing it is fuel temperature. Higher pressure = higher temperature. Generally not a huge consideration, but it's still there.

Once my two GT28R turbos get tossed and the two GT2871R get put in, the 42# will have to be tossed as well.

Originally posted by RobSVT-t:
I have a standalone engine management going in. So that'll take care of the control of those big puppies. I have a spec stage 3+ going in. I'm looking to make around 500 whp. I'm also upgrading the turbo and intercooler. I'm going places on this car most people wouldn't want to or dare to. I'm doing some things that have been denounced by many people on this board. But hey, if everyone conformed to the popular opinion, no one would be different. I like being different and unique.

Robert

Ps: 96# = 720cc Not that large.

BTW, I haven't updated the cardomain page.

You ought to dump those 95 pound injectors (or whatever size they are)and use something in the 50-60 pound range if you are after 500 wHP. Better yet, recalculate using a different BSFC value.

Also, I don't think the stage 3 will hold a 500 HP to the wheel engine. Then again it might, but you have the option for a stage 3+ or a stage 4 I think.

The map sensor deal is far inferior to a MAF sensor deal. With the advent of the Pro Racer package from SVT and the flashing tool, you basically have the same or MORE power than a stand alone fuel injection system right there for $600-$700

Wow, a standalone when you have the power of EEC-V right at your fingertips.

They've got Lightnings and Cobras cranking out 500 HP using chipped stock injection systems......

You are going to lose you ass on this...I'll bet money this will never run correctly. You want to be different...so you think you can slap this and that together and make it run...LMAO. I don't know how many guys I know tell me to run megasquirt or I'll blow my car up...they've never even heard of SCT. If I listened to all the ish my friends from Redline told me to do...I would have scrapped the car 3 years ago.

Ok.....where should i start?

Let's start with the fact that you all are comparing V8, factory supercharged vehicles, that come with 390 hp to a V6 N/A vehicle that comes with 200 hp. 500 hp for the V8's is not very difficult. You're talking about slapping a pulley, exhaust, and a plug and play ECU flash, and wham bam, thank you ma'am, 500 hp! It hasn't even happened yet on a Contour!

Secondly, In response to warmonger, It is a stage 3+ clutch, not the regular stage 3.

Next, although the MAF systems work decently, they are not what I'm looking for for a boosted application. The standalone with a MAP sensor will recognize a change in manifold pressure. Not just an increased air flow being SUCKED through like a MAF.

Originally posted by Keyser:
Rob - Please reconsider your position as it will cost you money in the end. If you want to be safer than safe go with 50# injectors. They are more than sufficient and you can get it to idle with those. As for the stand alone...I'm curious as to how you will get the returnless fuel system to work? The EEC V is a very powerful ECU and is more than capable of your goals. I suggest sticking with it.

A trans upgrade is definately necessary, concentrate some funds there. You will need some way to get the power to the pavement. Power without control is worthless. When I was 325fwhp daily driver it was borderline too much.

Again, the transmission was upgraded already. New shift towers, synchronizers, and of course, the LSD. As for the the standalone working with a returnless style fuel system, that won't be an issue. The system monitors Fuel pressure, and will adjust voltage to the fuel pump to keep it consistent. I respect you're suggestion, but i don't want to have to pay to keep sending a damn chip out to get it reburned everytime i want to increase the boost or change something on the car. It becomes rapidly impracticle and expensive to keep sending chips back and forth just to get the right tune. As far as the injectors, I guess i will step them down to a 54# injector.

Unlike the Cobra's and Lightnings, not everyone in america knows how to tune our cars. And I personally don't have the knowledge yet how to tune the PRP. So I'm going with the stand alone and letting a professional tune it. You were able to get 401 out of Suniel's CSVT because it was there, on your dyno, with you making changes based on every dyno run. I don't have that ability to do it with chips.

BTW, I'm 19 y/o, and have worked my ass off to earn my money. I didn't plan on doing everything at once, but my engine blew, so it kinda got thrown at me all at once. This is a very expensive endevour, but one I'm will to go through with. Especially now, just so I can make it work and prove to those who doubt it, that it CAN AND WILL work.

I don't mean to sounds arrogant but most of you will denounce anything that does not conform to the "proven" ways. I guess you all are affraid to try new things, or just don't like it when others do. Everyone is entitled to their opinions. Just don't force me to do something I don't want to.

Buckshot, I got my pistons from SVTProdigy, that is all.

Robert

Again, if you all want to talk to me about this. IM on aim @ RobCSVT or PM me, enough of the thread hijacking. I in no way meant to hijack a thread.

Robert

LMFAO he got his pistons from SVTprodigy...yeah so you think some prof tuner is gonna do better with a standalone than another prof using software designed for our ECU. I'll bet 50$ I don't have that you will spend MORE money attempting your standalone system. Way to act like every other 19 yo on this board.

I will agree with you on the fact that sending chips back and forth in the mail for ADC is flippin retarded!

Quote:

RobSVT-t

- I have a standalone engine management going in.
-I have a spec stage 3+ going in.
-I'm also upgrading the turbo and intercooler.
-96# injectors

Not a bad way to spend $10,000.

In all honestly, that standalone is no more powerful than the Ford EEC-V software. In fact, the Ford software is more powerful than any standalone in some peoples opinion. A standalone or the EEC-V wont be able to control the injector pulse at low rpm's, thus resulting in a terrible idle. Those injectors are just an awful choice. Take our advice and ditch those 96# injectors and upgrade to something thats more usable and makes the car more reliable.

The problem with all your statements Rob...is that we've heard it SO MANY MANY times before and no one ever gets results.

You should know that...you've been on the board long enough. That's fine if you want to do something different (I am giving you the benefit of the doubt here), all power to you, but some of the things you have said...ie stand alone, 96 injectors...it shows ignorance to what the car should have or needs. You don't just get a stand alone because you "have decded" on it.

SCT is headquartered 4 hours north of you. I'm pretty sure someone there has the talent to tune your car. You could do it, you just don't want to. A stand alone is just a waste. If you think you won't be on a dyno for hours either way you are kidding yourself. That said, good luck to which ever road you follow.

I never said, nor did i ever imagine, that I would not have my car dyno tuned. I'm going with the Stand alone because it'll give me individual control over every aspect. Plus it'll self adapt to boost levels, intake air temperature, wideband a/f ratio, and coolant temp. Plus it has aux. outputs to control anything from cooling fans to nitrous to alky injection. It even has launch control built in. It allows for sequential injector and spark control. It also does full data logging with wideband. Monitors oil pressure, oil temp, water temp, boost levels, intake air temp, and a/f ratio. It gives you everything you need and even the stuff you want in a single unit. I'll bring the results of everything when I'm done. It will run and will be driven daily.

Robert

Those are some hugh injectors. My uncle's Procharged Mustang GT is only using 60# and they are more than enough.

Look, so far, I appreciate you keeping your cool with so many people apparently against you. However, despite how it comes out were are trying to help!

Originally posted by RobSVT-t:
Ok.....where should i start?

Let's start with the fact that you all are comparing V8, factory supercharged vehicles, that come with 390 hp to a V6 N/A vehicle that comes with 200 hp. 500 hp for the V8's is not very difficult. You're talking about slapping a pulley, exhaust, and a plug and play ECU flash, and wham bam, thank you ma'am, 500 hp! It hasn't even happened yet on a Contour!

Look, there are one or two cars that I can think of that are potentially able to run that with maximum boost, 100+ octane, ice in the resevoir, etc. But things like this are best done gradually, first 400 then 450, then 500. BeyondloadedSE is probably the one with the most potential.
And newsflash....an engine management system doesn't care what size the engine is or if it is a six or eight cylinder.
If an engine management system can control timing, fuel, etc, then it can run most any production engine.

Assuming you've gone forged internals and prepped your heads, gone with head studs and potentially used special head gaskets, You can literally slap in a huge turbo, pop in the correct injector size, pop in the correct MAF, AND DIAL UP 500 wHP with a stock ECU system if its tuned right.

With experience, it is too fuggin easy to do it with something like EEC-V!

With the map sensor, the pressure sensor is just the tip of the iceberg. You have to convert back to speed density and that sucks. That is why they went to MAFs. IF you do determine things like presure at a certain rpm = X amount of air so add Y amount of fuel, then you will be good ONLY for that temperature and that atmospheric pressure that you figured it out for! Speed density has to determine the amount of air based on sensor inputs and calculations and it is a real PITA for the manufacturer. This is OK for a race car that you don't drive except at the track day for tuning and racing. But don't expect it to run on the street. Atmospheric conditions will haunt you and you'll be chasing the air fuel needle all the time. So if you are a racer and can afford the dollars that go to a race only car...well, then I'll shut up and you shall put up.

Quote:

Secondly, In response to warmonger, It is a stage 3+ clutch, not the regular stage 3.

Good for you. Now you have one checkmark on your side towards success...maybe since stage 3+ is on its upper end of holding power at a good solid 500 whP. However, I think it is a better choice because I doubt you'll spend all your time at 500, you just need it to hold that power once in a while I'd guess.

Quote:

Next, although the MAF systems work decently, they are not what I'm looking for for a boosted application. The standalone with a MAP sensor will recognize a change in manifold pressure. Not just an increased air flow being SUCKED through like a MAF.

Already covered most of that above. You will be chasing your tail and have no money left to tune it I'll bet.
The BEST thing in the world is to have something that tells you the MASS of the air at any given time...like a MAF. Because all you have to do is add in the correct amount of fuel to give the right air fuel at that measured mass! If temperature changes, oh well because the mass is a measure that is essentially independend of all these other factors. In hot weather or high altitude, the mass per given time cycle is just lower, so less fuel is injected. At sea level in winter, it is a lot higher and more mass is measured and corresponding fuel requirement is easily added.

Once the MAF curve is correctly determined, you will have almost NO problems regardless of boost level you run.

Quote:

Unlike the Cobra's and Lightnings, not everyone in america knows how to tune our cars. And I personally don't have the knowledge yet how to tune the PRP. So I'm going with the stand alone and letting a professional tune it. You were able to get 401 out of Suniel's CSVT because it was there, on your dyno, with you making changes based on every dyno run. I don't have that ability to do it with chips.

BTW, I'm 19 y/o, and have worked my ass off to earn my money. I didn't plan on doing everything at once, but my engine blew, so it kinda got thrown at me all at once. This is a very expensive endevour, but one I'm will to go through with. Especially now, just so I can make it work and prove to those who doubt it, that it CAN AND WILL work.

You know, I don't care about your age or your money. I've treated you like a man and told you what I honestly think. What you are failing to realize is that other people have more experience than you and are trying to help. This doesn't mean you can't do it your way. I don't think you are arrogant, just inexperienced but with big dreams.

Quote:

I don't mean to sounds arrogant but most of you will denounce anything that does not conform to the "proven" ways. I guess you all are affraid to try new things, or just don't like it when others do. Everyone is entitled to their opinions. Just don't force me to do something I don't want to.

Now this is where you stepped out of line!

Some people may denounce something because it is different, but most on here will listen and make a comment. If an idea is fuggin stupid, then we will say so but go ahead. This isn't something like, "Hey, I think a T66 is the best turbo for my daily driver" idea where it would work but would suck, this is " I want to run 96# injectors on my 500 HP tour". WTF are you thinking? Why not just get 120# just in case you want to hit the NOS while you're at to for 1000 HP!

To say that WE are affraid to try new things? Get your friggin head out your arse! Who do you think you are talking to? You think that these cars came with 3L's??? You think they came with Aussie Bars and water injection systems, or foged pistons?
You think they came with Turbos?

How original is it to take an engine no one has touched before and put in a 3L, or to turbo it or supercharge it AS COMPARED to Joe Schmuckatelli coming along and saying:
"you're all afraid to try new stuff, I'm going to take a 3L and put a big turbo on it and make 500 HP with a standalone system"

Anyone see anything wrong with that sentence?

Nobody built the pyramids in a day. Each time they were built, from the original pioneers, they were built bigger on the knowledge of their predecessors. But Khufu's pyramid is the biggest and therefore the best I guess.

You are in THE WORST position to make a 500 HP tour, even if for the track or a dyno queen. Your shyte aint even together yet, let alone running.

Give Jim or buckshot or myself, or a few others a shot and fund the project and they can probably crank out 500 HP in as little as a few weeks. I'm willing to bet we don't see your dyno inside of six months! If ever.
So if you want to not waste your money, get your car at least on the road so you can get somewhat of a return on your investment, you'd better listen up and educate yourself before running your mouth.

Because....NO ONE made crap for this car before the previous members started making it or pushing for it. There are NO better tuners for these cars then right here in these forums.
Get it? None, they all come here for ideas and sell it back to you. Have it your way.

Tom ->

Rob,
Kid, you're SO misinformed/uneducated about building tuning engines, that despite your attempt to come off as cool-headed and thorough, you just plain ignorant (in the very definition of the word - look it up!).

We covered all the bases and all the cons against those ridiculous 96# injectors, a MAP sensor and a stand-alone ECU.

I suggest you stop being a thick-headed fool and LISTEN. If you want to join your dodo-buddy SVTProdigy, go ahead, but PLEASE don't try and pretend like you know what you're talking about - cos you obviously have NO clue.

We're all pioneers here, we all come this far helping each other along the way. The CEG made these cars and yes, the CEG is a GROUP, not an idiviual. But you're acting like that over-eager green soldier who gets shot in the first 5 minutes of combat, simply because you "think" you know more than everyone else combined.

With that said I suggest you get off your imaginary high-horse and cash this in:

I was hoping to see the 96# was a typo for a 36#....LOL. PLEASE Listen to Warmonger and Stazi, its not like they have built a turbo car or three.......

Originally posted by KnuKonceptz:
I was hoping to see the 96# was a typo for a 36#....LOL. PLEASE Listen to Warmonger and Stazi, its not like they have built a turbo car or three.......

Yeah no kidding...

BTW Tom that was the greatest post ever!

Thanks. I've been slacking on my posts and getting really soft hearted on some newbies these days.. But good God, I couldn't believe that last bit!
I also want to point out...I wasn't the first to do a lot of that stuff I mentioned! I've done my share, but there's lots of stuff I took/stole/begged/borrowed from other smart dudes that made up CEG of the past and present.
I spent hours learning the basic Tuning knowledge about all the tables and functions for my SCT PRP package from DemonSVT! Props to him!!

(even though he's a crotchety old fart sometimes ) and though I could have done it on my own, I did it quicker and safer with his help and I didn't risk my engine during the learning phase.
And Yes, Terry Haines has helped me out along the way in the past with all his MTX75 transmission knowledge too.

My questions is who was THE first to do a 3L swap? Airknight was one of the first I think...at least the first 95 3L.

I thought is was Ray McNairy....RIP. He died from cancer IIRC.
Then I know there was Bnoon and DavidZ. There maybe others but they were the ones I remember. There were several people working on it at once IIRC, and lets not forget the SloShop!

So if I where to put a turbo system on my car and leave the engines internals as is with the 10:1 compression and were to run say 7-8psi I would be more then fine and have no reason to worry if I had the system tuned correctly?

I'm looking to keep my car a reliable daily driver and still have the capability of putting up some pretty decent competition with a potential of producing 250-300fwhp?

I wouldn't be just putting on a turbo system either I would also be upgrading to 24#? injectors, MSDS headers, port matching the UIM & LIM, bigger TB & MAF, etc.

Basically I would like this car to last me at least another 70k or more.

Check out the link to my "Custom E0" in my sig, it has a dyno of my 3L in a semi-tuned state. They shut the run down early because of a misfire I was having, so didn't run it all the way to redline. If they had, I'd likely have hit 270HP +/- at the front wheels, on only 3.5psi.

I'll have my car broken in and back for the final tuning within a month from now. It should be interesting what I get at the same psi, and when I turn the boost up for the "dyno queen run" @ 12psi (IF that much)....

Originally posted by Swazo:
Check out the link to my "Custom E0" in my sig, it has a dyno of my 3L in a semi-tuned state. They shut the run down early because of a misfire I was having, so didn't run it all the way to redline. If they had, I'd likely have hit 270HP +/- at the front wheels, on only 3.5psi.

I'll have my car broken in and back for the final tuning within a month from now. It should be interesting what I get at the same psi, and when I turn the boost up for the "dyno queen run" @ 12psi (IF that much)....

It can handles 12 psi.

I know I know...you put a TON of work into it but C'MON ()

I'm going to turn the boost up, but in small amounts and in a controlled enviroment

I really don't want to blowm y car up anytime soon

Originally posted by warmonger:
I thought is was Ray McNairy....RIP. He died from cancer IIRC.
Then I know there was Bnoon and DavidZ. There maybe others but they were the ones I remember. There were several people working on it at once IIRC, and lets not forget the SloShop!

Ray had the idea first among the mailing list members. (Dave Z did it first, then Brad) He also had ideas & a mock up for modifying the larger SVT LIM to his 95's vacuum setup. (since done) Then the TH fix of course. Then the occasional arguing with the granny hitting old lady was always worth a few chuckles. The best thing he brought was his patience and attitude. We all could probably learn something on that front. RIP Ray...

Well, I lurked around during Rays time but I wasn't participating. I didn't really participate heavy until early 2000. By summer 2000 I was deep into prepping my 3L hybrid. So I really came right after his time.

If the order was DavidZ and Bnoon, then I must have been really close to Brad's time in 3L production.

I went a different route then both David and Brad, and David had those one-off cams and worked heads, Brad had the SE conversion el-cheapo special...with an eRam blower! Hahaha.
I fell in the middle with worked heads, combustion chambers, etc. Hehe, the best thing I did was actually fully documenting stuff and pop it up on the web. I can't tell how much traffic my old 3L webpage got in the early days. I had emails from all over the world on that one. Still got some contacts in Taiwan with a guy who's still in progress on a 3L swap that I help him out on. Maybe my claim to fame has been sort of applying a "research and publish" type of mentality to the configurations so that everything was getting tried and documented.

Oh yeah, Airknight was later, but it was the first 95 3L swap.

Originally posted by CSVT#49:
So if I where to put a turbo system on my car and leave the engines internals as is with the 10:1 compression and were to run say 7-8psi I would be more then fine and have no reason to worry if I had the system tuned correctly?

I'm looking to keep my car a reliable daily driver and still have the capability of putting up some pretty decent competition with a potential of producing 250-300fwhp?

I wouldn't be just putting on a turbo system either I would also be upgrading to 24#? injectors, MSDS headers, port matching the UIM & LIM, bigger TB & MAF, etc.

Basically I would like this car to last me at least another 70k or more.

So wait, I don't get this.
You do want 500 HP and are gonna get it,

Or you DON'T?

Once you figure out what you want we can help better.

If you want a reliable daily driver and 250-300 wHP, you will have no problems with a stock motor as long as its tuned and of 2000+pistons.
Any 3L turbo is likely to start in the 280s at the wheels and just go up from there if you have even a half assed intercooler on it. Reliability comes in from the tuning primarily, the overall design, and the amount of power you are extracting...the boost pressures if you will.
Run 25psi no intercooler and no matter how well tuned you are it will blow.

So if 300 wHP is your goal new goal then build a 2.5L with a bigger turbo than what ADC supplies, or a 3L and put on turbo.
You can put down 300 wHP on the transmission with a new ATB diff. and axles and I can't imagine breaking anything unless something has a flaw. 30# -39# injector range will cover you well from 300-400 whP. The intercooler must be big enough, the MAF must be big enough.

So here is what you do. You make a decision matrix first.
This is a list of the 5 most important things you want to do to you car, such as minimum power level you want to achieve, cost, fuel economy, reliability, etc.
Then assign a number to each and rank them in priority.
Then see what it takes to make that rank order a reality.

If power is a number one and cost is a number two, then you can only go so far with one before it affects the other, and same for reliability.
So I'm saying, 'Get Organized' lay out some goals, make some choices, lay out the parts you've got and figure out if its better to use or sell them, and then go from there.
If you need any help then tell us where you are at, the problem and you'll get honest answers.

Originally posted by warmonger:
So here is what you do. You make a decision matrix first.
This is a list of the 5 most important things you want to do to you car, such as minimum power level you want to achieve, cost, fuel economy, reliability, etc.
Then assign a number to each and rank them in priority.
Then see what it takes to make that rank order a reality.

Class is back in session! Very well put I learned that method in my last machine design class my senior year when I was studying for my BSME.

I've skimmed through the previous posts while searching the topic to see what people have done. I didn't read to indepth as this is something I plan to do late summer or maybe leave it as a winter project for next year. However all these answers I've been getting are exactly what I was hoping to get. I'm sort of building a baseline for where I want to start. I actually have a halfassed matrix setup, but nothing to the extent that your talking about. I just basically drew out who has what for turbo kits/ SC kits, possible engine upgrades to match kits and setups, basic bolt ons to support the system chosen, etc.

I'll post later with a more indepth decision matrix, because its a good idea to have one for this since it's going to be so much money and time invested. However just off the top of my head heres what I'm thinking:

Priority
1- driveablity/reliablity
2- performance
3- cost

Originally posted by CSVT#49:
Priority
1- driveablity/reliablity
2- performance
3- cost

Your list stacks up as the setup I've seen advised before in this thread.

A small intercooled turbo (T28 range) at 7-8psi. Remember your 98 has the weaker piston design.

Personally I would recommend a well built oval port 3L over the more expensive turbo setup. Then if you wanted to turbo it later you would have a better base in which to do it.

A good point. I wish I would have just gotten on this board sooner and learned more about the car before I jumped into it. I bought this car for $600 with a blown motor. I just replaced it with another 98 SVT engine. Sold off the UIM/LIM and TB to make my money back. Had I known what I do now I would have bought a 3L to begin with.

Anyhow if I was to go forward with a setup such as the T28 7-8psi boost range I could transfer all of it to a 3L correct? I mean if thats the case well if the motor handles the power for a few years and blows, well I could just put a 3L in at that point.

However I'd like to use what I have now since I've gone through the trouble of getting everything up and running. Although since this is a ways off (late summer, next winter) I could probably pick up a 3.0L between now and then. I've seen them go for pretty cheap with low miles, $300-$500. But that would be a whole new ball game. From what I've seen theres different headaches with different year motors, decisions on straight interchange versus hybrids, etc. So I would have to look more indepth on that to see what all is involved. As of right now though this car is my daily driver. I plan to purchase a small truck for late summer to drive in the following winter. That way I can store both my Camaro and my SVT.

Yes, the kit will directly swap over to a 3L if you go that route if/when your current engine dies. The T-28 might be a bit undersized for the air needs of the 3L, but it will work just fine. You can eventually have it upgraded as well if you want. It sounds like you're in the market for the base ADC turbo kit with intercooler. Should be a great setup for your needs.

Rick

Yeah, I'd say you'd be just as happy with a built N/A 3L as you would with a 2.5 turbo on your stock motor. Reason is you know you can't crank the boost without popping something on the early model pistons and a well done 3L has far less cost and almost as much power as the low budget stock 2.5L turbo. The torque is better matched for the basic drivetrain than a turbo because any turbo duratec will probably melt the tires in 1st and 2nd if you let it.
More fun...the turbo. More reliable and maybe just as much fun... 3L and much cheaper.
3L then add a moderate nitrous kit later and you'll beat almost any 2.5L turbo.
Now nitrous is no joke, but if you want power and cost is the name of the game then it is the way to go.
It is going to run you inside of $2000 to do a nice 3L with bolt ons, dual exhaust and intake(doing it yourself). Then another $1500-$2000 should see you a nicely tuned basic nitrous setup that when on the bottle will see you to 300-350 at the wheels if you want.
Of course if you become addicted to speeding off from every stop light like I am, the turbo ends up becoming more practical later on.

Originally posted by warmonger:
Of course if you become addicted to speeding off from every stop light like I am, the turbo ends up becoming more practical later on.

I already am thanks to the Camaro I built. I've been getting there with the SVT, but it's not that fast as of yet.