Finally going to get a dyno pull... Complicated...

Contour Enthusiasts Group Archives

I actually have a dyno scheduled for next Thursday for the Cougar. Excessive Motorsports in Manassas, VA was where we held a chapter dyno a few years back- They were d*cks to us back then, but the dude I spoke to today seems cool. Told him what was up with the car, and he said he didn't want to tune it, but he'd let me on the dyno for 3 runs with the wideband O2.

Now here's the dilema. I still have my 2nd ADC chip (1st one was defective). It ran well, but didn't open the secondaries

. The 4th chip is in the car (the 3rd ADC chip ran the car so lean it wouldn't pull much past 4k - Needless to say, I pulled it out immediately). Problem is the thing is drowning in fuel at its leanest of 3 settings Keith gave me.

Which do I dyno on? Pin the secondaries open and see what happens with the 2nd chip, or run rich as hell with the 4th chip? Running <10:1 A/F will crack piston ring lands over 3 runs, I fear...

After hearing about JD's dealings with ADC I wouldn't trust their tunes. After Keiser left all the tunes by Keith or otherwise have been very sub par. I'll be going with Brenspeed by the looks of it. Why is it so hard to find someone that can do our cars correctly?! I wish JD would post his experience. He is on his 3rd. When finally data logging he found he was dangerously lean. After pulling the chip the fuel trims were pretty much spot on with the stock computer. Just a word to the wise.

Dan, it sounds like you're stuck between a rock and a hard place. If you pin the secondaries on chip# 2, you don't really get an accurate reading of what your power looks like down low. You use chip# 3 and you potentially say bye-bye to your engine. Or you use chip# 4 and leave disappointed with your numbers. If you're looking souly for number, I'd go chip# 2 and pin the secondaries. Sounds like the safest bet of the 3.

And Todd, I think you'd be making the right choice in going with Brenspeed. Unlike ADC, if you want to make some adjustments to the initial tune, Brent is willing to help you out at no additional charge. ADC told me I'd have to pay them I believe $80(?) for additional tunes, and that's if THEY messed up!!

Hell, my tune is pretty spot on with Brent's first series of tunes, but was more than happy to send me more files with some more timing added, just so I could see if it could handle it. Maybe I could contact him before SZ06 and he could get us a group buy on them in time for the dyno, if anyone is interested.

Mark

Originally posted by Y2KSVT:

Hell, my tune is pretty spot on with Brent's first series of tunes, but was more than happy to send me more files with some more timing added, just so I could see if it could handle it. Maybe I could contact him before SZ06 and he could get us a group buy on them in time for the dyno, if anyone is interested.

Mark

Maybe I can come a day early and have it tuned. Won't be able to fine tune during dyno day due to all the cars.

Return the "static" chip and get an X-Cal. ANYTHING that does not let you tune it on the dyno yourself (or via the operator) is a waste of money. It's as simple as that.

Concur.

Originally posted by todras:

Originally posted by Y2KSVT:

Hell, my tune is pretty spot on with Brent's first series of tunes, but was more than happy to send me more files with some more timing added, just so I could see if it could handle it. Maybe I could contact him before SZ06 and he could get us a group buy on them in time for the dyno, if anyone is interested.

Mark

Maybe I can come a day early and have it tuned. Won't be able to fine tune during dyno day due to all the cars.

Yeah, you'd definitely want to make an appointment. I just figured that if you wouldn't mind a mail order tune on the Xcal2, I'd try starting a group buy, and you could atleast see what kind of power the car has on the dyno, and what your A/F looks like. You're gonna be on the dyno anyway, so why not check out your tune while you're at it? I'll start something in the Spring Zing forum.

Mark

Dans car is a Beast. He built a car unlike anything else that has ever been built. I would love to have it to tune in the shop. We have been working on getting his car tuned to its maximum potential over the mail. Dans tune was also being affected by his fuel pump problems. Chris was having the same problem with the Walbro pump until he figured out how to get the pump to work properly in the Contour. I have no idea to what extent the fuel pump issue changed the tune. It did change the tune enough to switch him from having lean problems to way to much fuel problems. There is no magical I just fixed my fuel pump switch on the chip. Now that the fuel pump issue has been addressed, Dan and us have been working on putting together a tune.

As far as the $80 charge I am a little lost??? Are you saying that if we sell you a tune and it doesnâ�?��?�t work we charge you more???? This I have never done before. If you make a ton of changes to the car and want for us to make you a new program then yes there is a fee evolved.

As far as mail order tunes go. They will not give you the absolute most power. If that was the case we would have not bought a $120,000 dyno. But since we do have a dyno and have tuned tons of Contours and Cougars, we have a lot of information which gives us the ability to get you a chip or program over the mail that will give you more power, raise your speed limit, turn off rear 02 sensors, ect. over stock.

Originally posted by DemonSVT:
Return the "static" chip and get an X-Cal. ANYTHING that does not let you tune it on the dyno yourself (or via the operator) is a waste of money. It's as simple as that.

Greg I thought you need more than an Xcal to tune a boosted car as there isn't enough adjustability in the Xcal - don't you need a Pro Race or am I wrong. I thought that with the Xcal - if it's close enough then yes you can fine tune it from the base tune on the chip.

Please explain.

The basic X-cal ($350ish) comes with either a stock binary (waste of money) or preset tune (find a good tuner) with some preset changes. It allows you to make changes in most of the key areas and up to a certain percentage based off the original setup. (i.e. yes the original guesstimate needs to be fairly close) Drivability will still likely be rough on highly modified cars. There are a few things you can't change that you'll want to be able to do.

The Pro package about doubles the price (~650ish) but gives you the awesome software that lets you make complete custom tunes yourself. This is a must for anyone that has made any serious changes to their car. $650 is NOTHING compared to the dyno time it will save verses a static mail order chip and the game of dyno tag you need to play with them.

Originally posted by DemonSVT:
The basic X-cal ($350ish) comes with either a stock binary (waste of money) or preset tune (find a good tuner) with some preset changes. It allows you to make changes in most of the key areas and up to a certain percentage based off the original setup. (i.e. yes the original guesstimate needs to be fairly close) Drivability will still likely be rough on highly modified cars. There are a few things you can't change that you'll want to be able to do.

The Pro package about doubles the price (~650ish) but gives you the awesome software that lets you make complete custom tunes yourself. This is a must for anyone that has made any serious changes to their car. $650 is NOTHING compared to the dyno time it will save verses a static mail order chip and the game of dyno tag you need to play with them.

I agree 100%.

That settles that then!

You know, I have been debating just investing in the dealer software and tuning cars for my spare time extra income.. Sort of like Wayne only I know the cars better and probably get deeper into it. In fact, I know as much as anyone insofar as the different buildups and what it might take to tune it properly.
Greg, you already know the naturally aspirated stuff but I really have been refining the boosted tunes and I feel confident that I could lay out a base tune for any of these FI'd cars.

There is however the issue of SCT tune compatibility. AS you've read before there are sometimes things that don't work perfectly right off the bat because of the code from SCT, such as the raised rev limiter on some codes. In that case the dealer is helpless and waits on SCT just like the buyer. I also have the wideband stuff for subsequent tuning as well.

You will also run into the fact that everyone drives a different combination of parts and no two will be the same.

Dan, Excessive is typically cool...but they might be biased towards Lightning guys :-) Torey can seem like a prick, but he's cool. They've hooked me up once or twice.

Originally posted by RTStabler51:
Dan, Excessive is typically cool...but they might be biased towards Lightning guys :-) Torey can seem like a prick, but he's cool. They've hooked me up once or twice.

Ryan, why don't you give them a call to prep them for what Dan's bringing over? A little extra "hey, this guy's cool" in their ear can never hurt.

Originally posted by Jeb Hoge:

Originally posted by RTStabler51:
Dan, Excessive is typically cool...but they might be biased towards Lightning guys :-) Torey can seem like a prick, but he's cool. They've hooked me up once or twice.

Ryan, why don't you give them a call to prep them for what Dan's bringing over? A little extra "hey, this guy's cool" in their ear can never hurt.

Because since I've become Lightning-less, I lost my clout with them... :-P

Yeah, but do THEY know that?

Sweet- An "in"!

I'm back on the 2nd chip (IMRC-less) awaiting a "middle of the road" chip to dyno on from Keith.

As for Lightning bias, tell them I'm running their injectors and MAF!

Originally posted by ArizonaDynoChip:
Dans car is a Beast. He built a car unlike anything else that has ever been built. I would love to have it to tune in the shop. We have been working on getting his car tuned to its maximum potential over the mail. Dans tune was also being affected by his fuel pump problems. Chris was having the same problem with the Walbro pump until he figured out how to get the pump to work properly in the Contour. I have no idea to what extent the fuel pump issue changed the tune. It did change the tune enough to switch him from having lean problems to way to much fuel problems. There is no magical I just fixed my fuel pump switch on the chip. Now that the fuel pump issue has been addressed, Dan and us have been working on putting together a tune.

As far as the $80 charge I am a little lost??? Are you saying that if we sell you a tune and it doesnâ�?��?�t work we charge you more???? This I have never done before. If you make a ton of changes to the car and want for us to make you a new program then yes there is a fee evolved.

As far as mail order tunes go. They will not give you the absolute most power. If that was the case we would have not bought a $120,000 dyno. But since we do have a dyno and have tuned tons of Contours and Cougars, we have a lot of information which gives us the ability to get you a chip or program over the mail that will give you more power, raise your speed limit, turn off rear 02 sensors, ect. over stock.

I presume this is Shawn? The $80.00(not sure of the exact figure, but that rings a bell) was referred to what you told me over the phone, the time I could actually get ahold of you or get some sort of response. I told you what injector, MAF & nitrous setup I had planned to use, and it sounded as if there were some uncertainties that you guys could get me a really good tune with my setup. I asked if you would make make adjustments to the tune if it didn't run right, and you said you would have to charge me. I figured I'd still go through you guys because of your reputation, but never had any response from the ~6 email, voicemail, PM's I left you.

Anyway, about the Xcal2, I believe the user has 5% adjustability in A/F, and 2 degrees of timing that can be added or pulled. You'll just need to download the software from sctflash.com in order to make these changes. For serious changes, the PRP is the only way to go.

Mark

Mark,
I am still confused. There are emails that I was unable to answer on my laptop that crashed. Other than that I am here from 9am-5pm Arizona time Tuesday thru Saturday. I sit on the phone all day (480-496-8800) as if we were attached to each other. So I am a little confused. I have absolutly no PMs in my inbox and no messages on my inbox. I would never deny anyones business unless I felt it was not something we felt uncomforablt doing off of the dyno. We have good timing maps for supercharged 3.0Ls. Perhaps you were running an aftermarket MAF that scared me away?? Let me know. Im happy to help you out with anything I can. Send em an email and I will send you an order form to get some more information from you. This doesnt mean you have to order the chip. It simply gives me an idea of what you are doing.
info@arizonadynochip.com

I will tell you if it is something we can do with the parts you are running or if we cant.