I'm LIVID ... the saga begins!!!

The bend is too sharp on my downpipe to allow a bolt to fit. When I reinstall the kit after I redo my engine, I'm gonna see if I can use a stud in that location.

I've never had an issue with it not being there - so I never worried too much about it.

OH you bought THAT car! I would be very angry! You prob paid a premium price too. Where is this arse clown located?!

What car is that? I'm guessing it's the grey SVT from fordcontour.org? How could you not know that car would be hacked?

We saw the pics of it.

Originally posted by todras:
What car is that? I'm guessing it's the grey SVT from fordcontour.org? How could you not know that car would be hacked? We saw the pics of it.

It looked fine to me.

Terry's $0.02:

Quote:

fastcougar's T/C engine...

before we all jump he should do a correct
compression test then change the 'O' rings around the
plugs and cam gasgets...that oil on the plugs is
clean/fresh and not from the cylinder...FWIW!!

He has a point.

My only reservation to it being that simple is that form the pics of the threads it looks like a mixture of oil and aluminum filings.

Well, the reason for the purchase was simple ... buy the car, strip the turbo system down and then refabricate it on the Cougar and possibly duplicate the fabricated work as a "kit" for others.

And YES, it's "That Car"

Warmonger: I know, my company has an employee who is the company lawyer who came he from a 20+ year private practice. He also suggested I find another way, thru personal negotiation with the previous owner, and I have. We agreed upon him giving me some money back to fix the other issues and to have the car tuned ... that was BEFORE last night's find.

Giving it a lot of thought today on the ride to work (1 hour drive one-way), I will have to eat the loss and drop in a 3L ... have fun explaining that one to the wife

Since I'm not at home now, I don't have access to the pictures, but the wastegate setup is as suspected: small oriface (have yet to measure) for the "built in" wastegate that doesn't exist. So, an external wastegate was used to replace a non-existant internal one.

I could buy that. Remember the little issue we found with oil on my plug Stazi? Might it be the same scenerio?

Mark

Did the small tube for the wastegate extend past the flange and fit tightly into the internal wastegate hole in the turbine housing or is it flush with the flange, just like the downpipe (therefore making the wastegate useless!)?

Originally posted by Stazi:
Terry's $0.02:
Quote:

fastcougar's T/C engine...

before we all jump he should do a correct
compression test then change the 'O' rings around the
plugs and cam gasgets...that oil on the plugs is
clean/fresh and not from the cylinder...FWIW!!

He has a point.

My only reservation to it being that simple is that form the pics of the threads it looks like a mixture of oil and aluminum filings.

TH is correct and I am returning the Summit compression tester and getting a quality leak down test kit with multiple threaded attachments since the spark plug holes in these heads are fairly well recessed. Nothing is happening until I can do a proper test.

BTW, that is Anti-Sieze, not aluminium

Originally posted by Stazi:
Terry's $0.02:
Quote:

fastcougar's T/C engine...

before we all jump he should do a correct
compression test then change the 'O' rings around the
plugs and cam gasgets...that oil on the plugs is
clean/fresh and not from the cylinder...FWIW!!

He has a point.

My only reservation to it being that simple is that form the pics of the threads it looks like a mixture of oil and aluminum filings.

Possible. It could be that the oil ran down into the spark plug hole from the valve cover o-ring not sealing around the plug hole, but on the other hand if it ran for any length of time like that then the fresh oil will have baked onto the plug body. And there is a lot of oil cooked onto the plug electrode. Its definitely burning a significant amount of oil. The aluminum filing look could just be anti sieze compound mixed in from the plug threads.
So he probably has multiple problems.

WOW! That is a terrible install... FWIW, I think your plug problem is just the O-ring leaking around the valve cover for #5. I notice that was suggested by Terry & is a good call. One of the plugs on the Zetec I have looked exactly like that after the timing belt change. Fresh seals for the valve cover fixed it, no problem. Plug looks clean like the others now that there is no misfire issue.

Originally posted by MapOfTaziFoShoâ�??¢:

It looked fine to me.

Wouldn't you be able to see down the plug hole to see if thier is a leak or some residue? Hopefully it is just a gasket. Did he have them painted/PC'd. Maybe just reused the old gaskets. Maybe they are just worn.

Originally posted by todras:
Wouldn't you be able to see down the plug hole to see if thier is a leak or some residue? Hopefully it is just a gasket. Did he have them painted/PC'd. Maybe just reused the old gaskets. Maybe they are just worn.

Yes, and the top of the piston appeared the same as those in cylinder #4 & #6, but no residue. I have a set of valve cover gaskets, so that's not an issue I can't solve in 20 minutes. Pending the leakdown test results, I will begin to fully tear down the UIM/LIM, replace the injectors with the stock 19#'s, replace the plugs with double plats and see how she runs.

I see he drilled a hole through the body to route the outlet of the turbo out of the engine bay to the front for the intercooler, right?

Originally posted by Stazi:
I see he drilled a hole through the body to route the outlet of the turbo out of the engine bay to the front for the intercooler, right?

No, but there is a hole to route the intake from the intercooler outlet ... at the corner of the "box" next to the washer bottle

You kinda lost me there - I guess I need to look at my engine to understand. From your pics though it seem like the outlet from the compressor goes down and through the side of the inner frame rail to that cavity under the fuse box, and - from my guesses - to the intercooler inlet.

More pics man - more pics!

Or is THAT the pipe from the compressor outlet going towards the front of the car, in thr ight of the above picture??

No, it "squeezes" through, just by the hair on it's chinny chin chin between the frame rail, A/C condenser canister & frame rail "turret".

If you can take a few pics of the IC piping from the front - with the bumper off - that'd be sweet!

I am assuming that this is not an ADC built and installed kit, huh?

Welcome to last week.

Originally posted by Keyser:
Welcome to last week.

last week?? How about 2 months ago??

Considering it got "stuck and sheared off", how would I go about removing that bolt from the turbine housing without making matters worse WITHOUT a drill press? Guess I need to get a drill press, drill out the old "shank" to the same depth as the other holes and then "pick" at the remaining threads. Doing this by hand will no doubt destroy the treads if the drill bit doesn't stay put exactly where you need it.

you need an "easy out" to get it out.

Originally posted by beyondloadedSE:
you need an "easy out" to get it out.

No, what I need is a Staples "Easy Button"

Originally posted by beyondloadedSE:
you need an "easy out" to get it out.

exactly. dont use one too small cause if it breaks off in the already broken bolt you'll be in trouble

i did that very same thing, broke an easy out off in a broken off exhaust stud in the head of a dodge durango. 7 hrs of drilling i finally got it out!

After you get the flange off look and see if the piece of bolt is sticking up out of the turbo housing or if it is recessed inside. If recessed, the easy out is the way to go. IF it's sticking up you have some options.

I would sue but you would be fighting an uphill battle.
You should have known better then to buy the car just based on the site it came from much less the completely ignorant idiots that worked on it.

'nuff said.

My condolences. You have painfully learned the valuable life lesson that taking over someone else's ignorantly failed project is not what you ever want to do. Period.

Trev- first make sure the turbo is still good before you salvage any of it. Like Stazi said, with all that rod sticking out in the up pipe there could be damage. Next, why don't you consider just buying a new turbine housing? It's cheaper than a drill press. Unless you've been looking for a good reason to get drill press.

OK, took some more pictures to show how the wastegate was setup. However first I must share a link I found when searching for bolt extraction techniques ... it covers just about every conceivable option for pulling a broken bolt/stud from a threaded hole:

http://yarchive.net/car/broken_bolt_remove.html

On with the pictures:

Turboâ�?��?�s down pipe & wastegate area overview.

Turbo's Turbine flange area. Note the small diameter of the opening. This setup would benefit greatly from a traditional wastegate placement and just have this port blocked off by the down-pipe flange. Note the snapped off bolt head in the bottom right and the threads that snapped off in the top center.

Close up of the snapped of threads ... like I said before, about 2 threads deep

Contrary to suggestions of the welding wire possibly breaking off (very possible), there are no signs that this has happened. The turbine wheel is free of defects and spins freely with no wobble or end-play. All the vanes are in great shape.

Close-up of turbine bypass port.

Turbine's bypass port tube to wastegate flange. Note the rust path to the left, evidence of a massive exhaust leak ... I guess a sprite can doesn't make a good gasket.

Down-pipe flange showing bypass port tube to wastegate flange.

Wastegate & flange "base plate" ... note the raised seat that the piston sits against, thus the "gap" around the piston. Anyone have any idea what wastegate this is? There are no markings on the wastegate.

Conclusions: TONS of room for improvements with proper wastegate placement in relation to up-pipe/down-pipe. The turbo is definitely is good shape IF the internal seals are good. Oil in the intake tract has me concerned. As some may remember in my previous posts on this subject, the air filter was soaking in oil that had come down the intake setup. I cleaned the filter and re-oiled it and it isnâ�?��?�t soaking so I suspect itâ�?��?�s oil being drawn in from the valve cover breathers/PCV valve tube.

FYI, it's a T3/T4 Hybrid T04E with an A/R of .63 ... good for about 400hp

Trevor- I have a drill press now if you need one...

Interesting read. What a CF! Let me know if I can help... Just got my Cougar back into the realm of the living, see other thread...

Originally posted by Keyser:
Unless you've been looking for a good reason to get drill press.

I don't even need a GOOD reason to buy tools

Look, The oil in the turbo inlet is the final key for me. I had exactly that same problem when my rings were worn down and I had excessive blow-by. It pushes oil into everything. If the pistons are not cracked then the car will be ok for NA driving but it will consume oil. It will not be a "good" car when you sell it as I'm guessing everything is just tired and worn out for any performance stuff. For an everyday beater the engine may be fine for a while.

Just as I suspected - with that f'ed up downpipe design the wastegate did NOTHING! IF the assclown had extended the smaller tube in the down pipe so that it would enter and seal into the small wastegatew orrifice in the turbine housingTHEN you would have being able to regulate boost. This setup had no control over boost whatsoever and I bet most the exhaust gases were just going right around the turbo anyway - I bet the thing didn't even make 4psi of boost! OK, so it's not perfect but it would have "some" boost control - just questionable depending on how well the DP flange sealed against the turbine housing.
Still, whoever built this is a MORON!

BTW the wastegate looks like a Delta or some copy of one. (from the looks of the regulator).

I also love the absolute hack job of welding a cat-conveter heat sheild onto the down pipe as some sort of heat protection.

Jesus - what a clusterf@$k!

Did you buy this car of Cardoc?

This thread=LMGDAO. Sprite can gasket. Damn Trev you got hosed mang.

Yes I did, but I have learned a very valuable lesson that I can now carry through life and pass on to my child. I know that sounds like a corny proverb, but it's the only way I can think about the last 3 months and NOT do everything within my power to get on a plane, fly to Salt Lake City and break this guys knee-caps! I'm going to make the best of it and reuse the components. The turbo and wastegate are usable and in good condition, along with the FMIC. All I need to do now is get profient at welding. My plan is to use these components and rebuild everything from the stock manifold bolt-up locations back to the turbo and from the turbo back. On the "cool" side, I have a few ideas on routing the IC piping better. Between practicing, materials & cosumables (welding wire & argon fills), I expect this system to cost me about $400-$500. Once I can "prove the concept" in mild steel, I will duplicate the "hot" side in 304

Besides Warmongers suggestion for the oil...how was the drain routed? Was is all down hill so gravity could do it's job? That could also cause oil in the intake.

ding ding ding ... the tap into the block just above the oil pan is at an upward angle, so there is a slight dip in the hose ... I said it before and I'll say it again, these guys where f|_|ckt@rds!

Thats not Cardoc's car, as much as you want to dislike him. His car was atleast painted properly (ie stripped completely) or atleast the white one was, I saw it with my own eyes.

He upgraded his SVT to a 3L, no turbo. When he did the swap I imagine he got it painted too, the engine bay is not still red (Again, I know he did it for the white SVT, I assume he did the same for his own car)

Originally posted by KnuKonceptz:
Thats not Cardoc's car, as much as you want to dislike him. His car was atleast painted properly (ie stripped completely) or atleast the white one was, I saw it with my own eyes.

He upgraded his SVT to a 3L, no turbo. When he did the swap I imagine he got it painted too, the engine bay is not still red (Again, I know he did it for the white SVT, I assume he did the same for his own car)

He did. This is not his car. I believe he still has it.

I must say that is the worst wastegate design I have ever seen. It would have been far far better, cheaper and easier to just use the internal gate and outlet from a turbocoupe/XR4Ti/SVO than that ridiculousness.

You can by a bolt-on T3 wastegate housing for dirt on eBay.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Garrett-Wastegate-flap-Valve-T3_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33742QQitemZ8017394438QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW

or
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/GARRETT-T3-Turbocharger-Wastegate-SWING-VALVE-assembly_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33742QQitemZ8018468113QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW

I think an external is a better solution. If the internal didn't come with it you have to worry about it fitting correctly so the boost builds as quickly as possible and that it will be big enough that there won't be any creep.

Definitely designing for external. I'm thinking about optimal flow here ... how would I "block" that port so that the exhaust gas doesn't think about "rounding the corner" and then SMACK into a block off plate?

I would weld it shut (with the housing OFF the turbo!).

The flapper on my GT28R and now my newly aquired GT3071R have the flappers welded shut. Keyser can attest that it didn't stop the both of us from getting ~300whp from the GT28R with that setup.

Weld it shut and bin the actuator.

It's a completely flush hole about 3/4" in diameter, how would I weld it shut? Are you suggesting I get the external flapper assembly and block that shut or actually weld something into the hole AND block the assembly ... Sorry, just looking for some clarification.

Cut out a "coin" of steel and tap it into place then weld it.

Yeah just get some metal over the hole and weld it. A point of interest though is that in your photos of the hot side it doesn't appear that this turbo was balanced. Do you have a photo of the compressor wheel?

Actually Chris I don't think it's even a real Garrett. Garrett's have a "wankel rotor" shaped end on the shaft.

I'll post up an image of the impeller tonight when I get home.

As for cutting some plate to size and welding it in the opening, what really would be difference between that and a flange ... the plate might be what ... 1/8"-1/4" at most ... that's going to do nothing to smooth the internal flow through the housing.

Anyone know of any good online links to learning how to rebuild your own turbo? Rebuild kits are not that expensive and I'm capable, just don't know how and don't want to "learn on the job" with something like this.

Trev- I'm fairly certain you don't have a balance light. The impellars need to be balanced within 1 gram IIRC.

Here are the compressor site pictures:

Overview of compressor side

Closeup of the compressor wheel & retaining nut

Side view of the compressor wheel & retaining nut

I wonder if that isn't a real Garrett turbo? Usually Garrett is cast into the housing. Worth finding out, it might work though!

Well it appears that your wheels were balanced individually which means that you can probably rebuild it yourself. If the compressor nut was ground down the assembly was balanced as one unit. Here is a good link.

http://www.gnttype.org/techarea/turbo/turborebuild.html

Well, it looks JUST like this one except that the compressor housing on mine has been "show polished" (what a joke), so would explain the lack of the A/R rating cast on the housing.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/T3-T4-Turbo-50-A-R-500-whp-57T-Civic-Integra-GARRETT_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33742QQitemZ8018029803

It's been confirmed ... compression tester arrived today with the "long neck" threads and I immediately tested cylinder #5 ... 0 ... the needle NEVER moved. I thought I hooked it up wrong, so I moved on to cylinder #6 and got a 170-172psi reading. Then I skipped back over to #4 ... 165-167psi reading. Then back to #5, just in case the gauge was acting up on the first try ... NADA, NOTHING ... I'm LIVID!

So, I call the previous owner and leave a nice voicemail since he didn't pick up his phone. I'm planning on leaving a message a day until he returns my call. If I don't hear anything from him by Friday of next week, I'm consulting a lawyer.

Turbo kit is junk, now the motor is junk.

Man, I would be pissed too! Id like to see pictures of the engine once its torn down.

I feel for you...

but I don't think there is any law that protects you really. Let us know what the lawyer says.

Like I said. I saw the same things before on my own engine. You have cracked ring lands on those pistons most likely.

Actually, there is hope. If you pull the engine and find that the cylinders are not scratched then you can get pistons installed, probably someone has pistons from another SVT that fried, ones that were in good cylinders. I'm sure they'd just give them to you for the cost of shipping, I know I would if I had them.
If the block is thrashed, there are several SVT blocks floating around that wouldn't be that bad to get hold, unless you want to do a 3L job on it. You did say the car was in great shape right?

Originally posted by fastcougar:
It's been confirmed ... compression tester arrived today with the "long neck" threads and I immediately tested cylinder #5 ... 0 ... the needle NEVER moved. I thought I hooked it up wrong, so I moved on to cylinder #6 and got a 170-172psi reading. Then I skipped back over to #4 ... 165-167psi reading. Then back to #5, just in case the gauge was acting up on the first try ... NADA, NOTHING ... I'm LIVID!

So, I call the previous owner and leave a nice voicemail since he didn't pick up his phone. I'm planning on leaving a message a day until he returns my call. If I don't hear anything from him by Friday of next week, I'm consulting a lawyer.

Well, on the lawyer part, you have the evidence you need to prove that the engine was not in good shape when you got it.

1.-- the burnt carbon on the plug is evidence that it happened previously. That oil wasn't fresh, it was old. The fresh, unburnt oil on it is obvious too.

2.-- The turbo pic shows oil in the inlet and that is from excessive blowby due to broken pistons. The excess pressure in the crank case pushes oil out everywhere, but mostly it comes past the labyrinth seals in the turbo itself because the pressure in the turbo drain pipe is the same as the crankcase = high with lots of blowby.

3.-- You'll have the broken pistons themselves when you pull them out and photograph them.

4.-- You'll need the mileage at the sale time of the car and the mileage right now when you tore it down. Hopefully you didn't drive it much otherwise none of the above will mean squat.

5.-- Last, you need the whole description, pics, and everything that were on the ebay add. It must somewhere in there say, "Runs good" or somehow tells you that it didn't have any problems before you will be able to collect anything at all. If it says "as-is" or "Condition Unknown" or anything like that, just hang it up as you will not get anything.

Again, we will help you on here with information to rebuild the car and of course with the turbo for the cougar so it won't be a total loss.

Just some ideas to help out:
Would be to post Common interests to find out who wants an SVT and who might want one with a 3L in it. If you have someone who can't put in their own 3L but wants one and is willing to make a deal with you, then just build it the way they want it so you can enhance the sale. This gives them a guarantee on how it is built and the quality of everything since it is all public. I know I'd want to buy one this way, almost built to order so to speak!

You be the judge: 3.5MB Windows Media File documenting the day I drove the car home from picking it up from the transporter. The minute I drove it home from the transporter (1.5 miles) I knew there was something wrong with the car and wanted to document the condition of the car from earliest moments possible. This is just to show the smoking and clutch knock/chatter (at least I think it's clutch chatter). I have the mileage documented (on video 20 minutes after picking up the car) at 51,156 miles. The car as of now, sitting in my garage on jack stands at 51,190 miles. Yes, I put a whopping 34 miles on the car, 25 of which where driving to and from my sister-in-law's house for storage. My neighbors can testify to this fact. The other 10 miles where me driving around trying to diagnose the issues at hand ... as far as I can see, it's an open and shut case.

I negitiated a return of $2,700 from the guy 6 weeks ago and have yet to see a penny. I managed to get ahold the guy later that night after making my last post in this thread. We had a meeting of the minds to say the least and he basically said that I would not be getting a penny more than the $2,700 we already agreed up. He assured me that I would have my money by the end of this month and promptly hung up. I quickly called back and left a voice mail that I would definitely be pursuing the issue legally if I didn't have the $2,700 in my hand by the 1st of January ... time will tell what's going to happen.

So what does that mean, you are giving it all back and getting $2700 or he's giving you that much back towards repairs? I mean you already took everything apart so that would suck.

$2700 would get you enough to drop in a 3L and get it bgack up and running. Good luck with the deadbeat!

Wow, I just watched the video. All I really had to see was that video. I called it right on day one when I first listened to your symptoms.
That smoking out the back is also exactly what happens.

I did that to my engine when running with no intercooler at about 6psi. That means that either it wasn't tuned well or that front mount isn't working that well.
If you have an water to air intercooler then it will be more efficient at low speeds. He also may have been running it on high boost too, who knows.
From everything, it sounds to me like he knew he broke it, or suspected as much and wanted to unload it.
Really, just fixing a few problems with the pipes and throwing in a shortblock would work fine.

I definitely liked the sound of its exhaust though.

Did you see the IAC feed was tapped in from the LOW PRESSURE side of the turbo

Under WOT it would bleed boost back to the turbo as the IAC would open. Man.....so many things wrong with that turbo setup that it isn't even funny.

Yea he knew. No mistake it was knocking. No one could miss that. Pretty sweet whitish/blue smoke.

Originally posted by todras:
Yea he knew. No mistake it was knocking. No one could miss that. Pretty sweet whitish/blue smoke.

Sounds like REALLY bad chatter...spec 3 maybe. IDK my spec 2 barely has any chatter. It only has that knocking when the clutch is disengaged...

BTW Tina eat your ham!

Originally posted by warmonger:
So what does that mean, you are giving it all back and getting $2700 or he's giving you that much back towards repairs? I mean you already took everything apart so that would suck.

No, the negotiated $2,700 was for all the other "[censored]" that I haven't gone over, like the botched battery relocation, broken sunroof motor, torn carpet, broken headlights, etc. This has been an ongoing thing with this assclown since day 2 of owning this car. I couldn't get over the attitude he copped with me on the phone though and neigher could he ... I got to work today to find this email from him:

Quote:

Trevor,

After thinking much about the conversation we had on the phone I totally understand how you are so angry and I apologize for my tone with you. There was no excuse for thatâ�?�¦I agree with your terms and will have you the money by January 1st of next year or you can do what you need to.

Basically, he has said that he will get me the money by the end of the year or I am free to sue him ... something tells me that he will not give me a dime and I will have to see a lawyer ... for his sake, I hope he is not under the impression that I am bluffing ... I will go the distance on this one.

Regardless of payment, I have a lump of crap in my garage (the body is good, just all mechanical issues right now). So, I'm off to scour junkyards at car-part.com in search for an 01+ Escape engine.

Originally posted by MapOfTaziFoShoâ�??¢:
BTW Tina eat your ham!

what is that supposed to mean?

I've been through some legal issues with the car's I've picked up and unless you get a lawyer most of the time you'll never see a dime. One SVT I bought had all the SVT parts stripped off it when I got it. I was told it was taken apart but the parts would be in the truck. They tried putting stock 2.5L parts in the trunk. Half the engine parts were missing. I still haven't gotten anything back from that deal. That guy was in the Navy and I figured I could go through the Navy and get him in trouble but I still haven't had any luck. Good luck with your issues. I hope you get something out of it.

Originally posted by fastcougar:

Originally posted by MapOfTaziFoShoâ�??¢:
BTW Tina eat your ham!

what is that supposed to mean?

Napoleon Dynomite reference. Women in the video was named Tina. Guess you haven't seen the film.

Originally posted by todras:

Originally posted by fastcougar:

Originally posted by MapOfTaziFoShoâ�??¢:
BTW Tina eat your ham!

what is that supposed to mean?

Napoleon Dynomite reference. Women in the video was named Tina. Guess you haven't seen the film.

IDiot!

Tina was the freakin' Llama!

Yes...point being?

I'm correcting Todd, you clown!

Originally posted by Stazi:
I'm correcting Todd, you clown!

You are? How so.

Pete was just poking fun at the girl being named Tina.

Originally posted by fastcougar:
You be the judge: 3.5MB Windows Media File

...

I think we should all go give the guy that sold this car a BIG

Well I had a car I sold one time to a friend for CHEAP and his idea was to fix it and sell it for a profit. Well he ended up trading a guy cars with the one I had sold him. the guy took it sight unseen, and then wasn't happy with it. He threatened a suit to, but never followed through.

EVERYTHING I have ever heard or read of is that buying a used car is an understood "as-is" with no warranty or gaurantee of anything. I hope you get back what you deserve, but I would not count on it.

[Southpark Towely voice] I have no idea what's going on... [/Southpark Towely voice]

"Towely, you're the worst character ever... "

"hey guys, wanna get high?"

"Hey that's the melody to funky town"

I just ordered a 2002 Escape engine w/60K miles for $600 shipped (from TN to WV). I have my work cut out for me ... good thing I have the week after Christmas off work

Make sure you save EVERY email, voicemail, receipt you have. They will play a huge role in court, if you have to go that far.

Mark

Originally posted by fastcougar:
I just ordered a 2002 Escape engine w/60K miles for $600 shipped (from TN to WV). I have my work cut out for me ... good thing I have the week after Christmas off work

That's pretty expensive. A 02 Taurus 3L can be had for $350 with the same amount of miles.

i guess it depends on where you pic it up.

i got my escape engine with 18K miles for $475 (local junkyard)

Yes I know, but I didn't want a Taurus engine ... more work. I wanted an escape engine and for some reason, they are hard to find in that price range SHIPPED being the operative word here. I checked all my local yards and could have gotten a Taurus/Sable engine from an 01 Taurus for only $375, but passed. I want the revised parts in the oiling system (pan, pickup & windage tray).

Well shipping alone with a carrier a distance like that is usually like $200 of that money on the sale price.

You would have been ok with the Taurus motor but you are right, getting the escape pans and stuff makes it real easy to just reuse that stuff. All you will have to do is change out the dipstick tube if you want, but I actually used my escape dipstick for two years until I went back to the contour one this summer.

Just count on new rod bearings and probably on new Ford rings. The cylinders won't need any work if it is in good shape and I can't imagine the mains needing it either.
You might need timing chain guides and a drive sprocket though.

Originally posted by fastcougar:
Yes I know, but I didn't want a Taurus engine ... more work. I wanted an escape engine and for some reason, they are hard to find in that price range SHIPPED being the operative word here. I checked all my local yards and could have gotten a Taurus/Sable engine from an 01 Taurus for only $375, but passed. I want the revised parts in the oiling system (pan, pickup & windage tray).

Don't forget the sand issue in the Escape engines.

Originally posted by fastcougar:
Yes I know, but I didn't want a Taurus engine ... more work. I wanted an escape engine and for some reason, they are hard to find in that price range SHIPPED being the operative word here.
I checked all my local yards and could have gotten a Taurus/Sable engine from an 01 Taurus for only $375, but passed. I want the revised parts in the oiling system (pan, pickup & windage tray).

You are just crazy.

There is no more work swapping a Taurus/Sable engine then a Escape/Tribute engine.

Any 01+ 3L engine will have the revised pickup, windage tray, and dipstick.

Only an 04+ Escape engine will have the revised pan. It's probably cheaper to just pay the $125 for the oil pan kit then buy an 04+ Escape engine over an 01-03 Taurus engine. You need the new oil pan gasket anyway. (~$25 IIRC)

Originally posted by DemonSVT:

Any 01+ 3L engine will have the revised pickup, windage tray, and dipstick.

Wrong. The taurus/sable pickup and oil pan are different. The pan can be modified to fit the contour through drilling a couple bolts, but it's not a direct swap. Also, the pan is deeper than the contour/escape pan and as such has a unique oil pump pickup for that pan. If you use the escape/contour oil pan with the taurus pickup, it will not fit (trust me, I now have bought 3 escape oil pump pickups due to just noticing this). One other note, the revised windage tray requires different studs on the outer corners of the block than the ones used with the stock windage tray along with the more obvious use of the 4 center studs in lieu of bolts.

Rick

Notice I also said less work ... with the 01+ Escape engine, I don't have to touch the timing cover/components, which from my research shows should need to be replaced with the 2.5L unit since the sensors are in the same place and the pulsewheel is already set to the 2.5L setting. Someone correct me if I am wrong.

So, if the above is true, then all I would need to do is ensure that the engine is not worn out with a compression check of each cylinder. If all is good on the compression check, I would just need to replace the rod bearings and be good to go ... IF I keep the 3L cams. Otherwise, she will need a teardown of the timing system to retrofit the SVT cams & then be retimed.

Honestly, what would you do?

If you're only buying the motor to drop in and sell the car, buy an Escape motor and swap only the necessary parts and don't open it up.

If you're keeping the car I wouldn't trust a junkyard motor to last without doing a good rebuild including both rod and main bearings.

Rick

Originally posted by Buckshot77:

Originally posted by DemonSVT:

Any 01+ 3L engine will have the revised pickup, windage tray, and dipstick.

Wrong. The taurus/sable pickup and oil pan are different.

Damn.

My bad. The pickup is different. I don't know what I was thinking. Add $14 to the total bill for the revised pickup.

I Did Not say the pan was the same!

If you are looking for a close to "drop-in" engine then the Escape is a better choice because of the usable front cover and oil pan. This also includes the fact you are not going to do a tear down & inspection though.

You are still going to need some 2.5L parts to finish it up though.

However if it's a "swap" then it makes no real difference. Buy the cheaper, lower mileage, closer, etc engine. That was my point.

$26 for the pickup Demon straight from Bill J

Originally posted by Buckshot77:
$26 for the pickup Demon straight from Bill J

HOLY CRAP it's doubled! Imagine the other part prices. Glad I built my engine a while ago.

Ford MSRP is $22.

Ford MSRP 2 years ago was $14.

That's some inflation!

I did some leg work today in hopes of helping out since I'm in Salt Lake City.

I called around to see who's tuned a grey turbo Contour, and after a few shops I found one. Modular Madness West tuned one with a "hack job turbo kit, with a mystery wastegate".

The lead tuner Heath, said the first time he tried to get the car tuned at his shop he declined to tune it because it was belching blue/black smoke and didn't want to screw up the wideband o2. For some reason (maybe they didn't use the wideband) he was talked into writing a base tune just to get it running well enough to get on a trailer so he could sell the POS. The owner claimed that the person buying the car was going to enter it into shows and would hardly drive the car anyway. But, Heath said without a doubt that the owner KNEW it was a dying POS!!! The owner knew there was a problem with the turbo and more!

PM with contact info sent

The dyno info is still on hand at the shop, 230HP/203TQ on a mustang dyno BTW.

Way to go Swazo! That is very cool of you to do something like that.

Originally posted by Swazo:
I did some leg work today in hopes of helping out since I'm in Salt Lake City.

I called around to see who's tuned a grey turbo Contour, and after a few shops I found one. Modular Madness West tuned one with a "hack job turbo kit, with a mystery wastegate".

The lead tuner Heath, said the first time he tried to get the car tuned at his shop he declined to tune it because it was belching blue/black smoke and didn't want to screw up the wideband o2. For some reason (maybe they didn't use the wideband) he was talked into writing a base tune just to get it running well enough to get on a trailer so he could sell the POS. The owner claimed that the person buying the car was going to enter it into shows and would hardly drive the car anyway. But, Heath said without a doubt that the owner KNEW it was a dying POS!!! The owner knew there was a problem with the turbo and more! PM with contact info sent

The dyno info is still on hand at the shop, 230HP/203TQ on a mustang dyno BTW.

Awesome detective work! Imagine, all that for only 203 ft-lbs of torque. It would have been so much smarter just to use the Vortech supercharger kit and had a system that actually worked well.

Actually, now if he has anything in print that the car runs ok, or runs well, or anything like that from the ebay add, he would have a leg to stand on in court. He could get a deposition from this guy Heath for use in court.

On the other hand, a person has to have some property before you can properly sue them. The worst thing would be to spend more cash out of your own pocket just to attach his wages and get that cash back over 5 years or something.

Better hope he just gives you the $2000 on the 1st.

Originally posted by todras:

Originally posted by fastcougar:
Yes I know, but I didn't want a Taurus engine ... more work. I wanted an escape engine and for some reason, they are hard to find in that price range SHIPPED being the operative word here. I checked all my local yards and could have gotten a Taurus/Sable engine from an 01 Taurus for only $375, but passed. I want the revised parts in the oiling system (pan, pickup & windage tray).

Don't forget the sand issue in the Escape engines.

Well then he did the right thing didn't he and bought one that is proven with 60K miles on it. If it was gonna wreck itself from sand then it would already have happened right?

After paying his lawyer, a court reporter and for the transcript... a deposition might be overkill. His lawyer could talk with Heath over the phone, write something up and make sure Heath agrees and it's ready to submit as evidnece.

I'm no lawyer, but I have had a few legal dealings here and there.

First off, I want to thank Swazo again, but publically this time. THANK YOU! I will be calling the tuner to see if he would be willing to make an "official on-the-record" statement concerning his dealings with the previous owner. This will be added to my "pile-of-evidence" concerning this transaction.

Now, moving on ... the 3L I ordered arrived yesterday while I was at work. I had to work later than normal, so I didn't even see it in the driveway until around 8:45PM. I went inside, ate dinner and then promptly started to rearrange the garage to that I could get it into the limited space that I have since I have other parts/tool/equipment taking up space already. I would have left it outside another night except my area is under a winter ice storm warning. I didn't want to the engine exposed to ice, so I rolled up my sleeves and got to work.

Let start by saying I froze my ass off! It was between 15-17 degrees last night and probably around 17 degrees when

Too damn cold to take pictures in the pitch black on what I had to go through to get this thing in the garage. The entry into the garage was hampered by the fact that I have not 1, but 2 1-2" dropoffs from the garage floor. The first is a solid inch, which then gives way to the asphalt driveway, which has no topcoat (new house built), so there is another 1-1.5" dropoff there. I found the best approach when trying this by yourself to be crafty

I purposely left a lot of slack in the chains because the engine was on a standard crate and my hoist would not straddle it, so I need the "swing" of the slack and the high angle on the chain to not crush on the "rear" valve cover. Why Ford didn't leave the "eyelet" on the rear heads found on 98 engines (could be all earlier engine too, not sure) is beyond me. Threading a long bolt into the alternator cradle worked out well, but that eye would have been money! Anyway, jack the thing up and wheel here backwards to the first drop off. I squared up the hoist for a completely perpindicular entry and then used the weight of the engine to help raise the back of the hoist off the ground enough to slide the whole thing into the garage until the front wheels met the first lip. Try as I might, i couldn't "tug" the hoist from the other end over the frist drop-off, so I had to be creative.

I have a small platform dolly that I built myself for carting my CD4E around in the garage before I rebuilt it. What do you know ... it holds a fully dressed long block no problem

So, I jack the engine up just enough to get the dolly underneith and lower it just enough to add slack in the chains so I can move the dolley with 0 hanging weight. Between the 1st & 2nd drop offs is about 12-14 inches, so I roll her back to the second drop off. I then jacked up the engine, repositioned the dolley and repeated the steps again. Within 5 minutes, I managed to get the engine into the garage. Good thing too, because I writing this from home, where I am working from today since it's snowing and calling to turn to all freezing rain any time now. Damn glad I didn't leave her outside! I would have to wait for all the ice to melt for this to have been done and judging my the forcast, it that might take awhile.

Anyway, got the engine in the garage and got to work on getting her up on the stand that my "race engine" is on.

On with the pictures:

The room I have to work with ... yes, those are the turbo parts in the pile on the right ... and NO, I didn't use the propane space heater last night because the garage door on the other side of the car was open for 20+ minutes and propane is expensive.

Other side of the car showing my workbench. Yes, that is a front subframe to a 98 Contour and NO, it's not from this Contour.

Parts, tools & equipment - OH MY!

Engines? I don't need no stink'n engines! "race block" on the stand in the back, Cougar's (on the other side of the garage door) engine on the left & the 02 Escape block in the foreground. Add in the lump of [censored] under the hood of the Contour and that makes 4 engines

Close-up of the Escape engine.

The swap officially begin as the "race block" is retired to the floor and the engine stand bracket/arm is placed on the Escape engine.

Closeup of the bracket/arm orientation.

Spun around so she can face the stand and hoisted up.

Stand fitted to the bracket/arm. Hard to tell, but the stand wheels are roughly 1-2 inches off the ground.

Same thing, different angle showing how stand sits between the legs of the hoist.

All done. It's time for teardown. I'm going to call the machine shop today to see if they can get me turned around fairly quick. They did the "race block" and got me the Clevite rod/mains, so they will need to order those again as well. Simply disassebly, hone the cylinders, tank the parts & fit new rings and off we go ... wonder what that will cost???

What's the "race-bock" for, the Cougar?

Originally posted by fastcougar:
They did the "race block" and got me the Clevite rod/mains, so they will need to order those again as well.

Can get them at Napa in about a day or so. Doubt they'll be in stock. I'd pick them up myself so the shop doesn't screw you on charges.

You've got some fun ahead of you. I love to tinker...

Wish I had a garage just so I wouldn't HAVE to put everything away every freakin' night. Pulling & stowing tools takes an hour a day out of project time for me. Would be less but the bum leg slows me down considerably.

PS get a propane heater - I would not be able to work in my garage without one!

he has one, he just didnt use it because his door was open and propane is expensive

Your garage is way too clean!

Originally posted by ElKy:
he has one, he just didnt use it because his door was open and propane is expensive

$15 for a tank of propane is better than pneumonia and haemrrhoids

Originally posted by Stazi:

Originally posted by ElKy:
he has one, he just didnt use it because his door was open and propane is expensive

$15 for a tank of propane is better than pneumonia and haemrrhoids

Aw! Common now! It was only 15 degrees. The time to fire that thing up is when the temp dips below 0.

<=== (* Born & raised in northern Maine; -40 was common *)

After heaving and hoing on the engine to get it into the garage and on the stand, I was pretty well warmed up anyway.

As for the shop charges on the bearings ... on the other engine build, here is an itemized list of charges:

6 rod bearings $35.19 (CB1772P)
1 set of mains $53.17 (MS2207)
Fit Pins/Align $40
Rebore cylinders $120
Clean/Disassemble & assemble block $280 (include removing pilot bearing on crank)
Balance engine & add heavy weight $380 (they farmed this out to a local race engine building shop)
Transportation fee $23 (Not sure what this was for, maybe for ordering the bearings? - I will tell them about NAPA since there is one nearby them)

Total on the race engine = 980.77 (includes $4.41 in taxes)

I would imagine that this engine will run me about $485. I'm calling them right now

It's not worth my time/effort with thier prices considering that NAPA charges $87.43 (not including taxes) and these rand me $88.36 ... I'll let them take care of it

Originally posted by TourDeForce:

Aw! Common now! It was only 15 degrees. The time to fire that thing up is when the temp dips below 0.

<=== (* Born & raised in northern Maine; -40 was common *)

Yeah, and you like it so much that you moved to FL

Just got off the phone with the engine shop and they have reconfirmed why I like their work. He refused to quote me on the phone because, and I highly agree, that the block should be inspected before making that kind of determiniation. Hopefully, this block will break the bad luck cycle and be nice and true and only require a set of rings, bearings & a honing. Teardown will be done tonight (remove everything but the heads) and tomorrow night (get the heads of the block and take a peak at the cylinders).

So you are staying stock internals? Seem like another 600 you put some better pistons in at least. Seem that the rods are good for more than 400 hp. What about the valves stem seals hope you least change those they come with the kit. Hope things work out for you just do it one time.....

Trev...

Good luck on your projects.. remember if you need any Fel-Pro or Sealed Power parts to get them from my work using that 5% discount code listed in the Duratec Maintenance section..

Plus I normally place all the Federal Mogul orders so I'd take care of you good

Originally posted by NVMYSVT:
Trev...

Good luck on your projects.. remember if you need any Fel-Pro or Sealed Power parts to get them from my work using that 5% discount code listed in the Duratec Maintenance section..

Plus I normally place all the Federal Mogul orders so I'd take care of you good

Where do you work?

Originally posted by Hdbngr8:
Your garage is way too clean!

YOu know, that is EXACTLY the same thought I had.

I was thinking "Well we know you don't do any REAL work yet because your garage is still pristine."

Hahahah. I love it.

Originally posted by Stazi:
What's the "race-bock" for, the Cougar?

Is that kind of like "Amber Bock" only drank a little faster...or shotgunned??

Originally posted by BurritaSVT:
So you are staying stock internals? Seem like another 600 you put some better pistons in at least. Seem that the rods are good for more than 400 hp. What about the valves stem seals hope you least change those they come with the kit. Hope things work out for you just do it one time.....

I hate to break this to ya bud, but the stock pistons in the '01+ engines will also hold 400 HP.
But that's only if you tune the engine right and have an intercooler.

Well yes it has been proven to take that but why balance the crank to a factory piston? Pay 300 for nothing unless he was going to change something. The motor comes balanced enough for stock internals right?

Originally posted by warmonger:

Originally posted by BurritaSVT:
So you are staying stock internals? Seem like another 600 you put some better pistons in at least. Seem that the rods are good for more than 400 hp. What about the valves stem seals hope you least change those they come with the kit. Hope things work out for you just do it one time.....

I hate to break this to ya bud, but the stock pistons in the '01+ engines will also hold 400 HP.
But that's only if you tune the engine right and have an intercooler.

is that 400 WHP with a good tune and intercooler? cuz i gots those

Originally posted by BurritaSVT:
Well yes it has been proven to take that but why balance the crank to a factory piston? Pay 300 for nothing unless he was going to change something. The motor comes balanced enough for stock internals right?

Uh, and your point is???/

The factory rods and pistons can easily withstand 330-350 ft-lbs of torque. I've already done that. IF the rpm range is stock, calculate what 330 ft-lbs of torque will be at 6500 rpm?

EXACTLY!!

As far as balancing, it is perfectly ok and sometimes worth the money to get a factory setup fully balanced. Not everything comes right(correct) from the factory....as is evidenced by some motors spinng smoother than others from the day the roll off the assembly line. I wouldn't do it unless I was updating the motor and felt that it was a bit too harsh when revving.

So you are correct. Why waste the money? I wouldn't.

Originally posted by pole120:

Originally posted by NVMYSVT:
Trev...

Good luck on your projects.. remember if you need any Fel-Pro or Sealed Power parts to get them from my work using that 5% discount code listed in the Duratec Maintenance section..

Plus I normally place all the Federal Mogul orders so I'd take care of you good

Where do you work?

www.rockauto.com

Yeah thats a sweet garage. I would love to work on another 3L. I gotta call people about swaps they have been talking about me working on. The only bad thing I saw is that you ahve a ghey towel on your car!!

Are you in MI?! You can come by and work on mine. I have a propane heater and my garage isn't too bad either.

Once I get back from CO on the 23rd...I will do the X MAS thing and jump back into the 3L on the 26th.

my garage owns

Actually it hasn't been hijacked, the poster is the one that changed it over to garage pictures and discussions of his work in his garage.
So I'd say his thread is....under new leadership direction.

Originally posted by warmonger:
So I'd say his thread is....under new leadership direction.

Spoken like a true corporate leader!

1) I never said that I was going to have the engine balanced, I simply listed all the items on my invoice from getting the "race block" done. The only reason why I would rebalance is if I fitted non-stock items there where heavier/lighter, but a simple "reringing" doesn't constitute a rebalance in my eyes ... you are correct, it would be a waste of money, but I never said that is what I was planny

2) I don't view this thread as hijacked, so simmer down now

3) I type fast and this site doesn't have a spell checker, so I reserve the right to mistype words.

I need to upload the pictures, but last night I got the block down to the heads/valve covers/timing cover/oil pan ... everything else is off the engine. Hopefully tonight I can get through the rest of the motor and have a true shortblock before bedtime (normally 1-2AM for me)

Oh yeah, forgot to add ... the garage is clean because I just bought the house (new construction) on July 15th. First thing I did was seal the garage floor

I recommend using all 4 mounting points.

i.e.

Been there, done that ...

all 4 mounting points are "high" on the block so to speak.

The 3 that I have used give a better spread of the weight across the bracket face and cause less tendency for the block to want to "bend" toward the bracket bottom, thus stressing the bracket face at the top attaching points. I found this mounting method to be the most balanced.

I have a tuck under garage so it never goes below 45 degrees even though it's 0 outside. I recently picked up a craftsman work light and the thing has two halogen lamps on it and takes 1000 watts. I have a propane heater but lately I just turn the light on 5 mins before I go out and it keeps the garage warm enough if you keep yourself busy.

I should have taken a picture of my projects a few weeks ago. I had 3 SVT Contours at my place, 3 2002 3L engines, 1 good SVT block and 3 bad blocks. I've since narrowed it down to one SVT (well two now but the owner is coming to get it later today), one bad block and a set of SVT heads.

As far as mounting the block on the stand I've also gone with those 3 mouting points.

I get four on i just use a long bolt and nut for te lower holes feels better since it is cast aluminum.

Originally posted by fastcougar:
Oh yeah, forgot to add ... the garage is clean because I just bought the house (new construction) on July 15th. First thing I did was seal the garage floor

Yeah riiiiggghhtt!! What you're really saying is up to this point you've been lazy as f**k and now you're just pissed you've got to do some work.
lol

Now, this looks 10 times worse than I'm sure it is (trying to keep a positive outlook here, someone please back me up here). The pallet the engine was strapped to was cracked and leaning slightly to one side. These are the only bolts bent, leading to conclude that this happened in transit/loading on the truck. There is no other external damage to the block. So, here is the question of the day: How do I get off the nuts without causing more damage? I'm weary of using a sledge because I don't want to damange the pan or bolt holes that it's threaded into. I'm thinking of cutting it flush with the nut and then getting on the nut with a neumatic impact wrench ... your thoughts?

I had planned on doing the teardown tonight, but couldn't due to family coming first. So, instead I spent 5 minutes going over the block exterior with a fine-toothed comb and taking pics of things that caught my attention. Obviously the above is the one thing that has me bothered the most. However, I found the stems of the exhaust valves to be rather interesting as well. Anyone care to enlighten me on if this is normal or not? I have torn down many engines in the past, but never paid attention to the valves in the heads because I simply had them sent out for work and never gave it a second thought.

white/very light pink hue on exhaust valve stems. This coloration was only on one cylinder.

red/pinkish hue on exhaust valve stems ... all the other cylinders where this color or a slight variation thereof.

This one caught my eye due to the waxy nature of the carbon buildup in the exhaust ports, leading me to believe that the stem seals or cylinder rings are shot. I'm leaning towards the rings because the stems are clean & red (is the red normal????)

God I hope the block is OK and I can get away with just a reringing so I can put some money into the heads.

After my last post, my suspense was getting the worst of me, so I decided to go ahead and pull the valve covers & spark plugs to get a better sense of the engine condition. All the plugs looks great except the one from the "white" exhaust valve. It didn't look bad, just slightly white in color. All the others where a very light tan. I suspect that this cylinder was running a little hotter for some reason ... full teardown might shed some more light. However, I think that I have answered my own question about the red/dark pink valve stems ... based on their corresponding spark plugs, that would appear to be completely normal.

Oh yeah, a slight tapping with a ballpeen hammer straightened out those oil pan studs. I figured that whatever force bent them was far more distructive than a few slight raps with a ballpeen. Whatever bent them also chewed up the threads pretty good, so out with the dremel (no sawzall yet) I go on Sunday. I will keep eveyone updated ... as if you care about my ramblings. I swear, sometimes I type out these posts only to help myself think things through

Fast coug,

What are you worrying about those studs for? They don't have nuts on them currently, all you do is get a 13mm deep socket on there, pull them off and replace them with new. If they're the ones I'm thinking they are, they hold the heat shield for the AC in place and that's it.

Rick

Doh! I thought that they where true studs with an independent nut, not an attached nut

Sorry, but with my luck lately, I guess I'm a little paranoid with anything car related. I swear, I'm waiting for one the jack stands to give out ... hopefully I'm not under the car at the time

How many miles on this engine?

60k IIRC

Originally posted by Stazi:
60k IIRC

Correct and she appears to be in damn good shape ... more on that later. For now, I need someone to help me out here. I don't have an owner's manual and I need to know what is supposed to be in slot 20 in the fuse panel on the driver's above the kick panel & below the steering wheel:

Not sure it's related, but what caused me to look into this area of the car is that the left turn signal blinks VERY fast, incidating a dead bulp, but the headlights are brand new and the tail lights blink fine. Also, the high beams don't work. So, I dropped the fuse panel to check.

The weird looking fuse thingy (anyone know the real name fot this kind of fuse - looks OEM to me)

I had to bend the prongs back into place as they where disconnected from making contact. I haven't replaced it into the slot until someone can tell me what the hell it is and what the slot controlls.

On to the engine:

Left head overview

Left side cylinders

Right head overview

Right side cylinders

"Hot" cylinder closeup (note slightly whiter exhaust valve's vs. the "Normal" cylinder closeup (2nd picture). Also, I have no idea what is stuck between the seat and the intake valve ... looks like a cluster of fibers of some sort???

BTW, this is the center cylinder on the right side of the engine. Sorry, didn't bother to think or look it up, so I don't know right now which cylinder number that relates to ... I'm sure someone will chime in with the answer.

"Normal" cylinder ... the other 5 basically looked like this with varying degrees of carbon buildup.

Cylinder wall closeups

I suspect that she will only need a re-ring job and that should suffice ... that along with Clevite Mains & Rods. I'm also going to have them remove the valves & springs from the heads for me and hot tank them as well so I can do the porting. Off to the engine shop she goes ...

I don't know what fuse that is.

Looks like the engine was burning a lot of oil. There appears to be rust at the top of the one cylinder wall but hard to tell from the pics.

Is this from the 3L that you bought?
BTW, the cylinders don't look bad at all. 60K miles and the cylinders have the crosshatch marks in them and look good.
I agree you'd want to put in new rings...assuming the cylinders are all smooth and still retain the crosshatch marks, don't use a hand hone or the new rings will wear out faster and not seat. If you use factory rings that is. If you have discoloration, maybe 1000 grit fine sandpaper to gently check it out and remove it.
You need to do valve job. At a minimum, have the guides checked and at least lap in the valves if there is no pitting in the seats. Should just have them all done at a shop, they used to charge around $60 a head and you can supply them with a new set of Ford Valve seals. I'd speculate this engine could have potentially more than 60K miles on it though. At this point it doesn't matter if you put in new rod and main bearings, rings and valve seals with the valve job.

That fuse-thingy looks like a switch of some sort that you can swing open or closed - weird ish - I've NEVER seen one. My bet; another hack they used, probably cos they were blowing that fuse over and over. I don't have my car nearby to check what that fuse location is for, but someone should chime in.

As for the engine - holy crud build-up. Looks like what Rogers SVT would look like inside when he used to own it.

They were using crap-tastic gas in that car - and I bet it NEVER saw injector cleaner, ever. Once you start running good premium like Shell V-Power and rev the bish she'll stay clean (water injection also does wonders here!).

Honing looks excellent stil so no need for any cylinder work. New rings would be OK - but not 100% necessary. But seeing that crud it might be the way to go as the rings are probably gummed to hell and back (why I would never buy a motor with that many miles - to much prep work required).

Like I said - my thought is that they used 87 octane all the time and never revved out the engine - hence tons of carbon build-up.

To remove the fibre (which look like a smashed twig to me), I would reinstall the cam (PROPERLY) on that side and rotate it till it cracked open the valve - otherwise, if you have the right valve spring tool you could use that.

The Escape owners manual calls for 87 so I'm guessing that's what was ran.

Also it's mated to an auto so of course it was never reved. Some soccer mom bought it to get from point a to b. I've never seen a fuse like that. It's not factory I can tell you that. I would have bought a low mileage Duratec as well. Too much work needs to be done to that one.

<==== (* Saving pix & taking notes *)

Learning some useful stuff guys, thanks for keeping it in an open thread & documenting so well!

I would also suspect from the engine condition that the previous owner skipped a few oil changes...

Originally posted by Stazi:
That fuse-thingy looks like a switch of some sort that you can swing open or closed - weird ish - I've NEVER seen one. My bet; another hack they used, probably cos they were blowing that fuse over and over.

Honing looks excellent stil so no need for any cylinder work. New rings would be OK - but not 100% necessary. But seeing that crud it might be the way to go as the rings are probably gummed to hell and back (why I would never buy a motor with that many miles - to much prep work required).

Like I said - my thought is that they used 87 octane all the time and never revved out the engine - hence tons of carbon build-up.

To remove the fibre (which look like a smashed twig to me), I would reinstall the cam (PROPERLY) on that side and rotate it till it cracked open the valve - otherwise, if you have the right valve spring tool you could use that.

Not sure why everyone is giving advice on what I should do to the block as I clearly stated it was going to the machine shop this morning

I just got to work right now after dropping it off about 45 minutes ago. Work notice stated:

Block:
- Hone block and rering.
- Replace rod & main bearings with Clevite77 parts
- Remove crank shaft pilot bearing/bushing

Heads: (Yes, I took them too)
- lap valves & replace all seals
- Replace guides as needed

I now have to get the TTY block bolts for them and drop that off with my rebuild manual so they have the torque specs.

I built a custom 3L/2.5L "hybrid" PDF file from the two factory rebuild manuals (I had both in PDF format already). I printed both and then went through each page by page and mixed and matched where needed. It's basically just 3.0L on all the short block stuff, 2.5L on all the accessories for full block buildup. It's a complete manual that I will share with all if I can find the time to go back to the PDF files and do the same thing I did with the printed version (swap pages here-n-there).

As for the engine's condition, it really doesn't matter once you factor in the machine shop. They should have everything back to me no later than 12/27/2005. I'm off work the week of 12/26-12/30 so that works out great! Now I just need to get a SPEC stage I & flywheel ... doubt I could get that in the same time-frame.

Try SP Motorsports.

Originally posted by Stazi:
Try SP Motorsports.

SVT Cuervo (I think) has the best prices on SPEC stuff. I know he had a thread with updated price in the GB forum. Quick search for SPEC would proboly bring it up.

Stage 1 Spec is $279. Comes with pressure plate and TOB as well FYI. They were running a deal on the FW if you bought the clutch as well.
http://www.ultrarev.com/ecart/shopexd.asp?id=56973

Got it shipped faster than Cuervo could get it to me.

Originally posted by todras:
Stage 1 Spec is $279. Comes with pressure plate and TOB as well FYI. They were running a deal on the FW if you bought the clutch as well.
http://www.ultrarev.com/ecart/shopexd.asp?id=56973

Got it shipped faster than Cuervo could get it to me.

Thanks Todd ... just got off the phone with them ... it will be drop shipping along with a Fidanza (going on the Cougar) since I already have an SVT flywheel (factory fresh - meant for the Cougar).

I also just got off the phone with the local dealership (I get the same pricing as BillJ, otherwise I would go through Bill) since I don't have to pay for shipping and I can pick everything up tomorrow after 3PM

- I got every gasket on the engine, all the TTY block bolts (head bolts as well) & valve stem seals.

Also called the machine shop and consulted with them on the cost of the lapping vs. valve job and he said that the labor was roughly the same, so I decided to go with a full valve job (5 angle IIRC).

As you can tell, even though this car will ultimately be sold someday this spring, I'm paying attention to detail and doing it right ... the way I expected to recieve this car will be the way it will be sold. No rock will be left unturned. I'm even going to be installing a Quaife in the gearbox

Originally posted by warmonger:
I don't know what fuse that is.

Looks like the engine was burning a lot of oil. There appears to be rust at the top of the one cylinder wall but hard to tell from the pics.

That is the insides of a circuit breaker designed to fit in a standard blade fuse slot. It normally has a metal shell covering what you are looking at. They are $2-3 at any parts store ONCE you first find out it's rating & if it's suppose to be there.

I agree. It looks like they did not change oil very often, it also may have had oil burning issues (PCV, seals, etc), and it definitely sat with water in the cylinders. (probably sat outside a while)

Since I recall you are going to bore the engine the rusty cylinders are not an issue. If you are not going to bore it they they could be if it is anything more the very minor surface dust. (i.e. oxidized powder)

Yeah, I thought it might be a circuit breaker at first, but I thought he said that the part in the picture was actually IN the slot? Whatever, I'm glad you cleared that up.
Should be easy enough for someone to go out and check the manual for the purpose and rating of that slot.
I'd do it but it is all the way down in the garage in the glovebox...

<yeah, I know I'm suddenly lazy> Maybe later.

Originally posted by warmonger:
<yeah, I know I'm suddenly lazy> Maybe later.

Suddenly...

Next you'll say you caught that from me.

Yes, it was in the slot AND it was bent back so that the "flap" could never make contact with the "posts" ... make sense? Notice in the first picture that the "thingy", as I will refere to it until it's identified, is bent to the left. The two "posts" where bent at different angles, not allowing the center section to ever make contact. Not knowing what it was meant for and the fact that the slot is labeled with a yield sign with an exclimation point in the middle and a picture of a book opened up (owner's manual) with no AMP rating, I decided it best not to reinstall until I knew for sure what that slot is for. Notice that is the ONLY slot in the panel without an AMP rating and refers you back to the owner's manual, thus why I thought the "thingy" was OEM. Regardless, it stood out and considering the build of this car, I'm not taking any chances!!!

I vaguely remember my car having that from the factory, but sealed as Demon said.

Could someone PLEASE go to your car, get out the owner's manual and read the fuse panel break-out desciptions and post back with what is supposed to be controlled by slot 20 and MORE importantly, post what is supposed to go there. It would be most helpfull if you could take a picture of what is in YOUR slot 20 in the panel. Thanks!!!

Originally posted by fastcougar:
Could someone PLEASE go to your car, get out the owner's manual and read the fuse panel break-out desciptions and post back with what is supposed to be controlled by slot 20 and MORE importantly, post what is supposed to go there. It would be most helpfull if you could take a picture of what is in YOUR slot 20 in the panel. Thanks!!!

That piece is stock bro, i have it in my 98, it's supposed to have a black plastic cover over it, i noticed that when i dropped the panel to replace blown fuse. I'll look for my owners manual when i get home and let you know what the slots for.

Originally posted by Quick_SVT:

Originally posted by fastcougar:
Could someone PLEASE go to your car, get out the owner's manual and read the fuse panel break-out desciptions and post back with what is supposed to be controlled by slot 20 and MORE importantly, post what is supposed to go there. It would be most helpfull if you could take a picture of what is in YOUR slot 20 in the panel. Thanks!!!

That piece is stock bro, i have it in my 98, it's supposed to have a black plastic cover over it, i noticed that when i dropped the panel to replace blown fuse. I'll look for my owners manual when i get home and let you know what the slots for.

THANK YOU!!!!

i cant believe the laziness here??!!! j/k..heres your answer..slot 20 in the pasg compart. is for the wiper motors,its a circuit breaker...ampre rating is c10...hope that helps

Originally posted by fastcougar:
Could someone PLEASE go to your car, get out the owner's manual and read the fuse panel break-out desciptions and post back with what is supposed to be controlled by slot 20 and MORE importantly, post what is supposed to go there. It would be most helpfull if you could take a picture of what is in YOUR slot 20 in the panel. Thanks!!!

I would but........I'm busy bro!
I'm trying to read stuff posted by you on CEG

ahahahaha

Originally posted by tour96se:
i cant believe the laziness here??!!! j/k..heres your answer..slot 20 in the pasg compart. is for the wiper motors,its a circuit breaker...ampre rating is c10...hope that helps

...hmmm already done..two hours ago..mine has one as well its covered in a solid piece of black plastic

Wow, this thread cause multiple personality disorder ... look out!

Nothing major to report today ... just picked up the parts from the dealer today for the rebuild. I remember a part that I forgot (enging/transmission plate) that I will have to order tomorrow. I have my rebuild manual and parts for the machine shop at the front door ready and waiting for me to drop them off tomorrow morning. The parts are: All 17 (3 different part numbers) TTY bolts for the girdle/block, 24 valve stem seals & 1 rear main seal. The shop is ordering the bearings ... drats ... that reminds me ... the rod bolts are also TTY ... damn ... need to place another order!

Why not reuse the engine/trans plate that you have on the car already??

I don't know where I read it, but I could swear that was also a non-reuse item? I could definitely see that being the case if it's bent badly on removing ... what have you guys done?

I always reuse it. It's just a simple sheet of aluminum. Unless your a mroon and rip it taking it off - which would take a COMPLETE IDIOT - you can reuse it.

Originally posted by Stazi:
I always reuse it. It's just a simple sheet of aluminum. Unless your a mroon and rip it taking it off - which would take a COMPLETE IDIOT - you can reuse it.

Wow, I think I just save $40

Seriously though, thanks for setting that straight.

Got a call from the machine shop today to confirm the engine year/application because they where ordering the rings & bearings. Taking a long lunch tomorrow and going to pick up the TTY rod bolts & then adding them to the bag of TTY lower block bolts, rear main seal & valve stem seals. All the parts & factory rebuild manual will be then dropped off with the shop tomorrow at lunch. I hope to have it back before mid-week next week.

Make sure you give them the 2.5L assembly instructions as the 3L instructions are wrong when it comes to tightening the main bolts - they leave out stage 3 which is a final 90�?° turn (more on this is the 3L forums) - but essentially give the the 2.5L instructions and you'll be good to go!

Don't forget the rod bolt incorrectness in some manuals as well. Extra 1/4 turn on the rod bolts was left out of some later manuals. This is on top of the 2 stage torquing.

Originally posted by todras:
Don't forget the rod bolt incorrectness in some manuals as well. Extra 1/4 turn on the rod bolts was left out of some later manuals. This is on top of the 2 stage torquing.

That is why my rebuild manual is a "hybrid" with many pages from the 2.5L factory manual ... I already took care of this when I compiled the manual almost 3 years ago

OK, I'm knee deep into this swap and I need some serious advice. The longer I keep this car, the longer I'm not recouping my losses here. On the flip side of that, I'm not going to rush this project to fit my vacation time this week ... besides, the swap has revieled MANY other issues that need to be addressed which involves ordering some parts which will not be here till next week. So, some down time between now and then is going to be planned for. During this time, I would like to also order a Torsen and send it and the tranny to a local transmission shop that has installed 2 Quaifes in different MTX-75's for DanG ... they have experience and since I'm in a pinch for getting this done in short order, I'm getting it to them instead of TH.

Since I intend on selling this car and recouping my losses as soon as possible AND wanting to do it right without cutting corners, I have decided to forgo the "test mule" option for the Contour. The turbo kit will be developed and tested on the Cougar instead. So, at this point, I'm looking to get advice on what I should do with this setup to get the most bang for the buck and also ask how much I can expect to get from the sale of this car. My current plans are this:

Car purchase = $11,500
3L purchase (includes shipping) = $600
3L TTY bolts/All Gaskets & valve stem seals = $408.98
3L engine work (hone/re-ring/clevite mains&rods) = $932.90
SPEC Stage I Clutch = $290 shipped
New SVT Flywheel = $110 shipped
--- Breakdown ---
* Rod Bearings (CB1772P +.25) = $37.29
* Main Bearings (MS2207P +.25) = $55.77
* Hone Cylinders = $48.00
* Regrind Rod & Main Journals = $135.00
* Cleaning = $45.00
* Rings = $116.26
* Disassemble & Reassemble short block = $280
* 3 angle valve job & fit valve stem seals = $180
* UPS Overnight on bearings = 25.10
* Sales Tax = $10.48
--- /Breakdown ---

Subtotal thus far = $13,841.88

That only leaves an LSD, which I think is a must to have. Prices vary based on vendor, but I should be able to get the LSD & bearings & speado gear & have it all fitted for roughly $950-$1,000.

So, let's just round up to be pessimistic and say we are looking at roughly $15,000 and AT MOST I could sell for what, $10,000??? What could I fetch minus the LSD? I'm wondering if the LSD + install is worth the ROI since I can't recoupe the cost from the purchase & fitment. Would you pay an extra $1,000 for this car with the LSD?

P.S. A detailed post will be coming tomorrow on the progress of the swap. As of tonight, the stock engine is on the floor next to the engine stand with the 3L block on it fresh from the machine shop visit. I have to call BAT tomorrow to order the LCA Ball joints (both are split - not my doing), along with tie rod ends, front sway bar end links & an intake system ... yet more money ...

Should have just swapped in a 2.5 and sold the lemon. Forget all the trans upgrades,leave that to someone else. You will not re-coup it at this point. You could maybe get 8k for this car complete. My .02

Originally posted by livinsvt:
Should have just swapped in a 2.5 and sold the lemon. Forget all the trans upgrades,leave that to someone else. You will not re-coup it at this point. You could maybe get 8k for this car complete. My .02

I'm above that ... that is the same attitude that the [censored] that sold me this car took except that he left in the dead engine and I was a sucker. I refuse to take that same mentality towards this car.

Originally posted by fastcougar:

Originally posted by livinsvt:
Should have just swapped in a 2.5 and sold the lemon. Forget all the trans upgrades,leave that to someone else. You will not re-coup it at this point. You could maybe get 8k for this car complete. My .02

I'm above that ... that is the same attitude that the [censored] that sold me this car took except that he left in the dead engine and I was a sucker. I refuse to take that same mentality towards this car.

..yeah i'm not sure you'll recoupe much of anything..iirc sunniels car didnt go for too much more than 10k...and that was with a turbo, 400whp,leather recaro's..etc

I paid $8,300 last week for a dead stock 99 SVT. Very clean, unusually low mileage car (28K mi). You might see more than from an enthusiast who appreciates the 3L - but I wouldn't count on it.

To see near what you paid for it, I think you will have to get the turbo charger working correctly. With all the visibility this car is getting here, I don't think you can cut too many corners! In for a penny in for a pound.

Once you get it sorted out, you won't want to sell it.

But if at that point you do want to sell and itâ�?��?�s demonstrably a solid car - I'll be interested in buying it!

I know whom you bought this from and all I can say is that he must be a total ass. How on earth was knowingly ripping you off worth the loss of his integrity and reputation? He should be making some serious god-damn amends to you. The only acceptable thing he can do now is to pick up the ENTIRE dollar cost of making this car right â�?��?? and that does not even consider the time and aggravation its cost you.

Good luck to you FastCougar.

Look, a stock Contour that looks and works good with original equipment is what, $6-7K?
That's all you can expect to get for this without finding a buyer in advance.

Find a buyer in advance and work out a base price for the car that you will sell it at, then allow them the opportunity to dial in the extra goodies while you are in there. If you can't find a buyer,
Don't do anything extra other than put in a working ovalport conversion with a new clutch. Clutch is considered maintenance, everything else is gravy.
If you've got a set of headers available, those may help the sale, but just having a working 3L with a new clutch and good newer tires should be worth around 8K.

You should PM Blackcoog about the resale value of 3L swapped SVTs since he's done a few of them all ready. I think they're only going for 7-8K at the top end. I'd say if you get $8k out of it, you're doing well and then you've got to look at the fact you've then spent $7k on what you've got left, basically a trashed 2.5 and a half assed turbo kit. Sucks, but that's the way the ball unfortunately bounced on this one.

Rick

Originally posted by tour96se:

Originally posted by fastcougar:

Originally posted by livinsvt:
Should have just swapped in a 2.5 and sold the lemon. Forget all the trans upgrades,leave that to someone else. You will not re-coup it at this point. You could maybe get 8k for this car complete. My .02

I'm above that ... that is the same attitude that the [censored] that sold me this car took except that he left in the dead engine and I was a sucker. I refuse to take that same mentality towards this car.

..yeah i'm not sure you'll recoupe much of anything..iirc sunniels car didnt go for too much more than 10k...and that was with a turbo, 400whp,leather recaro's..etc

I wish the body was in better shape, as that would be a pretty good looking car. The fact that the roof of the car appeared to have a tree fall on it, made me realize why it went for what it did. The front bumper missing 1/2 of it's paint didn't help matters either. The motor though, is

Mark

Originally posted by Y2KSVT:

Originally posted by tour96se:

Originally posted by fastcougar:

Originally posted by livinsvt:
Should have just swapped in a 2.5 and sold the lemon. Forget all the trans upgrades,leave that to someone else. You will not re-coup it at this point. You could maybe get 8k for this car complete. My .02

I'm above that ... that is the same attitude that the [censored] that sold me this car took except that he left in the dead engine and I was a sucker. I refuse to take that same mentality towards this car.

..yeah i'm not sure you'll recoupe much of anything..iirc sunniels car didnt go for too much more than 10k...and that was with a turbo, 400whp,leather recaro's..etc

I wish the body was in better shape, as that would be a pretty good looking car. The fact that the roof of the car appeared to have a tree fall on it, made me realize why it went for what it did. The front bumper missing 1/2 of it's paint didn't help matters either. The motor though, is

Mark

Yeah just because that car went for a steal on ebay...because the buyer set the auction at an odd time should not take the value of ALL contours down to NOTHING!

Sinking $900 to prep the 3L motor is INSANE! SHould've just dropped in the oval port with SVT Cams and new rod bearing and called it a day.

Originally posted by Stazi:
Sinking $900 to prep the 3L motor is INSANE! SHould've just dropped in the oval port with SVT Cams and new rod bearing and called it a day.

Yep. For sure insane.

Originally posted by MapOfTaziFoShoâ�??¢:

Originally posted by Y2KSVT:

Originally posted by tour96se:

Originally posted by fastcougar:

Originally posted by livinsvt:
Should have just swapped in a 2.5 and sold the lemon. Forget all the trans upgrades,leave that to someone else. You will not re-coup it at this point. You could maybe get 8k for this car complete. My .02

I'm above that ... that is the same attitude that the [censored] that sold me this car took except that he left in the dead engine and I was a sucker. I refuse to take that same mentality towards this car.

..yeah i'm not sure you'll recoupe much of anything..iirc sunniels car didnt go for too much more than 10k...and that was with a turbo, 400whp,leather recaro's..etc

I wish the body was in better shape, as that would be a pretty good looking car. The fact that the roof of the car appeared to have a tree fall on it, made me realize why it went for what it did. The front bumper missing 1/2 of it's paint didn't help matters either. The motor though, is

Mark

Yeah just because that car went for a steal on ebay...because the buyer set the auction at an odd time should not take the value of ALL contours down to NOTHING!

Actually, the SELLER set the auction to end at an odd time. And I don't know where I said that, that particular auction depicts the selling price of all Contours. I merely stated that it wasn't as much of a steal as most people make it out to be with the body damage that it has.

Mark

Mark

Mark I quoted you but I meant to address tour96se...yeah I was very tired when I posted that...the SELLER ended the auction at an odd time.

How do you figure? Buckshot sells preped 3L engines with less modifications for more money. My shortblock in it's current form cost me $1,500 and includes Clevite77 Mains & Rods. I don't see anyone po-po'ing the asking price for his block work, which BTW, last I checked was ... you guessed it, $1,500 ... go figure. Not to mention, my setup is actually more of a "long block" considering the $932 included a valve job on the heads.

Regardless. I'm at the point with this headache that I'm seriously considering selling EVERYTHING I own in the garage and just hanging up my "mechanical" hat.

Originally posted by fastcougar:
How do you figure? Buckshot sells preped 3L engines with less modifications for more money. My shortblock in it's current form cost me $1,500 and includes Clevite77 Mains & Rods. I don't see anyone po-po'ing the asking price for his block work,

Yes we do. We just don't advertise it because Rick is cool.

Haha, that Rick guy is such a loser, oh wait.....

In all seriousness though, I charge what I do becuase of the time I put into each block and I pay myself fairly. It really doesn't matter to me if anyone buys them or not, but for those that aren't or don't want to be mechanically inclined, it's a nice service to offer them.

Rick

Originally posted by Buckshot77:
Haha, that Rick guy is such a loser, oh wait.....

In all seriousness though, I charge what I do becuase of the time I put into each block and I pay myself fairly. It really doesn't matter to me if anyone buys them or not, but for those that aren't or don't want to be mechanically inclined, it's a nice service to offer them.

Rick

I by no means meant that as a shot at you. Please don't take offense. I was mearly showing the double standard that existed. I buy a longblock for $600 and then have all new bolts fitted, the crank reground and fitted with Clevite Mains & Rods, have a 3 angle valve job done on the heads with new valve seals fitted, for an additional $932.90 for a total of $1,500 with the only thing left being head porting (doing myself) and somehow, I'm insane ... I just don't get it.

I didn't take it as a shot at me by any means. The guys that are talking about the cost being insane are the ones who have the time or take the time to do all of the work themselves. It's strictly a commodity thing, what you're willing to pay for something is completely different than what someone else is willing to pay for it.

As far as insanity goes, that would lie in the fact of doing all the work to this car and sell it at such a loss. As someone else stated, dropping a running 2.5 SVT engine in there and selling it would have been your best/least expensive investment in getting rid of the car and still having piece of mind of not passing on a lemon to someone else.

Rick

Well, last I checked, I don't have a honing machine or experience doing such, so I don't mind paying for services I have no business rendering myself. I also would have sunk just as much money into a 2.5L rebuild, if not more ... I have a nagging feeling that the "knock" I'm hearing in the video isn't clutch chatter, but rod knocking. I suspect that cylinder #5 is completely fubared! THAT is why I decided to go 3L instead ... besides, more power = more selling power when the time comes to sell the car.

I have give this MUCH thought today since the entire day was a "down" day with no work done on the car. I'm only out the money when I sell the car. I'm stressing the money put into the car because well, I wanted to recoupe that money as quickly as possible. I have decided to forgo the quick turnaround and decided to stick with the "test mule" approach for the turbo kit. I know this sounds wishy washy of me, but I have litterally dumped a lot of money on this project and had nothing but problems ... I'm under a ton of stress and that doesn't help. My best bet is to "stay the course" and make the most of it and the only way I can do that is to develop the turbo piping kit.

That's what I wanted to hear!

I too am in the same boat with my car. You don't "lose" the money until you actually sell, so it's easier to just keep it.

Good luck with the project.

Rick

Rick was right on the money.

My statement was made because I think you are totally nuts for
1) Buying an older motor that needed a full rebuild
2) Paying to much for that motor in the first place

Like I said and keep saying to all the other guys out there considering 3L's (most notably that giddyup guy that rebuilding a 96 Duratech!

); WHY buy an old-ass motor that needs honing, machining all new bearing etc, when you can simply buy an +02 Taurus motor with 10,000 miles for $500 and then just swap out the rod bearings and call it a day?

You don't need to hone anything, not new valves seals this, that and the other - it's a waste of money if you aren't building a motor to pump out 400hp all day long - and even still Tom has shown that a basically stock 3L motor with just rod bearings is capable of 400hp without a problem. That's what I'm getting at Trev. When you said you were buying a tired old Escape motor for $600 I told you not to do it, Hell I would've helped you get a low mileage Taurus motor shipped to your place, from LKQ here in MI for less than that, that wouldn't require a total teardown like you're doing now.

Rick charges what he charges to cover the cost of the motor/parts AND he has his labor in the thing - which is totaly justifiable.

I too charge people for 3L's - but it's just my labor. The motor and parts and mods they want done to it is on their dime...I purely offer the "wrenching" and experience for those that aren't confident to do it themselves.

Hence my initial statement that paying $900-odd dollars to rebuild an older engine was insane - when you could've spent $100-200 to put in new bearing, gasket oil pan into a younger, fresher engine and called it a day.

True, but I have always had the "test mule" aspect of this project in the back on my mind and I'm not cutting any corners if I'm building an engine to develop a turbo kit on AND intend to sell afterwards. I not only want that piece of mind, but I'm sure the new owner in the future will also appreciate it. Call me crazy, but what ever happened to doing things right the first time

On that note, the Torsen has been ordered, along with the bearings & speedo gear as well as the front suspension parts that need replacing

Originally posted by fastcougar:
Call me crazy, but what ever happened to doing things right the first time

You're crazy....why? Cos doing it right the first time would be doing it the most cost effective way...i.e. starting with a low mileage engine that doesn't demand high-dollar improvements.

Trevor, not trying to bust your balls - just trying to make you see things from outside your box.

Once again, Tom has proved to us that you don't need to go all-out to build a 3L that is going to put out good numbers and still be a reliable daily-driver. That is irrefutable evidence right there.

Originally posted by Stazi:
Rick was right on the money.

My statement was made because I think you are totally nuts for
1) Buying an older motor that needed a full rebuild
2) Paying to much for that motor in the first place

Like I said and keep saying to all the other guys out there considering 3L's (most notably that giddyup guy that rebuilding a 96 Duratech! ); WHY buy an old-ass motor that needs honing, machining all new bearing etc, when you can simply buy an +02 Taurus motor with 10,000 miles for $500 and then just swap out the rod bearings and call it a day?

You don't need to hone anything, not new valves seals this, that and the other - it's a waste of money if you aren't building a motor to pump out 400hp all day long - and even still Tom has shown that a basically stock 3L motor with just rod bearings is capable of 400hp without a problem. That's what I'm getting at Trev. When you said you were buying a tired old Escape motor for $600 I told you not to do it, Hell I would've helped you get a low mileage Taurus motor shipped to your place, from LKQ here in MI for less than that, that wouldn't require a total teardown like you're doing now.

Rick charges what he charges to cover the cost of the motor/parts AND he has his labor in the thing - which is totaly justifiable.

I too charge people for 3L's - but it's just my labor. The motor and parts and mods they want done to it is on their dime...I purely offer the "wrenching" and experience for those that aren't confident to do it themselves.

Hence my initial statement that paying $900-odd dollars to rebuild an older engine was insane - when you could've spent $100-200 to put in new bearing, gasket oil pan into a younger, fresher engine and called it a day.

Stazi,

This is 100% right! Just to reiterate this point, I don't disagree with anything in it and my helping out giddyup is simply because he made his choice and after pointing this out once I wasn't going to argue any more.

As for labor on a 3L block....Why NOT?? I'd say $1500 for a basically new prepped 3L block that is 99% sure to be perfect to drop in is cheap money.
It's people like you and me who can do good work on our own and then brag about how much power we made and how cheap we did it that make people think it is "cheap" to build a motor.

However, if I built a block for someone....I'd be right up there with you and Rick.

You've got to pay to play, either in blood/sweat/tears, or in Money you earn from blood/sweat/tears.

And Fastcougar, stuff happens. There isn't a one of us who hasn't made a choice that seemed fair at the time that didn't end up biting us in the butt at least once.
I learned half of the electical/ignition/tuning stuff on this car the first time because I didn't know what was wrong at first.

My Theory: It is perfectly fine to make a mistake, but it is foolish to make the same mistake twice. Thats how we learn.
Don't give up the mechanical thing, you'll end up looking for another hobby and this one is so much fun anyway...when it works.
Besides, NO GARAGE should be that CLEAN!

You've got to break her in right with oil spills, coolant, and occasional dropped parts and hammer blows.

Originally posted by warmonger:

My Theory: It is perfectly fine to make a mistake, but it is foolish to make the same mistake twice. Thats how we learn.

Yep. We have learned and reported or failures here to others don't make the same mistake. That's why we tend to be a little blunt with our posts sometimes. We know what works and what doesn't. Where to cut corners and where not to. No one has learned much harder than I.

That was my intent on starting this thread ... so everyone who reads it could learn from my mistake ... never buy a car sight unseen based on the seller's description. Like I said before, I wanted to go 3L so that the car would have more power to be more attractive to an enthusiast buyer since I will be listing it on CEG's classifieds and in the NECO for sale forum. I'm building it up to "factory fresh" status with Clevite bearings and having a Torsen fitted in the transmission because I'm plan on putting the car through it's paces during the turbo kit development. Trust me, I'm not into throwing away my hard earned money ... I do things with planned intent. However, in this instance, I was a little wavering in my attitude of getting this done quickly for a quick sale. As I see it now, my only chance of recouping as much money as possible is to develop this piping kit for a FMIC turbo system.

Anyways, back to your regular programming: I'm about to pull the head off the side of the engine where cylinder #5 is right now ... I will report back with the findings later tonight. I have some time to kill waiting on parts to arrive and I'm reusing the SVT cams anyways, so what's another 30-45 minutes to pull the heads and assess the damage

Seems my first impressions are rarely wrong:

Gee, I wonder why cylinder #5 had "0" compression?

Closeup of "the hole".

Closeup of the damage to the cylinder wall where the hole in the piston was located.

Scoring of the cylinder wall in cylinder #5.

Piston from cylinder #5 removed ... nothing else to say, this images speaks volumes!

Cylinder #2 caught my eye, so I removed it as well for a close look at the ring lands to see how far the pitting went.

Closeup of the pitting and coarse texture on pistons #2.

Cylinder #4 had the same piston pitting and coarse texture.

Cylinder #6 as well.

What breaks off a piston must go somewhere, in this instance, embedded into the head. This head is shot!

Other side of cylinder #5's combustion chamber.

So, how do you like my choice to go 3L now? Yes, it could have been done cheaper, but I wanted a "fresh" engine to build on. I have no doubt that a lawyer will enjoy taking this case ... it's an open/shut case

Originally posted by fastcougar:
Seems my first impressions are rarely wrong:

Gee, I wonder why cylinder #5 had "0" compression?

Closeup of "the hole".

Closeup of the damage to the cylinder wall where the hole in the piston was located.

Scoring of the cylinder wall in cylinder #5.

Piston from cylinder #5 removed ... nothing else to say, this images speaks volumes!

Cylinder #2 caught my eye, so I removed it as well for a close look at the ring lands to see how far the pitting went.

Closeup of the pitting and coarse texture on pistons #2.

Cylinder #4 had the same piston pitting and coarse texture.

Cylinder #6 as well.

What breaks off a piston must go somewhere, in this instance, embedded into the head. This head is shot!

Other side of cylinder #5's combustion chamber.

So, how do you like my choice to go 3L now? Yes, it could have been done cheaper, but I wanted a "fresh" engine to build on. I have no doubt that a lawyer will enjoy taking this case ... it's an open/shut case

ouch..man thats ugly,what would cause a piston to warp on the side like that..or melt or what ever happened?

Originally posted by fastcougar:
So, how do you like my choice to go 3L now? Yes, it could have been done cheaper, but I wanted a "fresh" engine to build on. I have no doubt that a lawyer will enjoy taking this case ... it's an open/shut case

We NEVER, EVER knocked your decisions to go 3L. I think you're totally missing that point. We just think you started with the wrong (too old and expensive) engine.

Looks like good tuning (

) cracked the ring land and then burne right through that piston. erson who built this turbo kit = Idiot

Wow! Nice.

It has definitely been driven on a while like that too! All the breakage is embedded and the damaged areas baked with soot from burning oil.
When mine cracked, there was no sign of piting or damage to the top.

What a flake.

Yeah, that engine is toast. Just save it for knocking up your piping onto the engine while it is out of the car. Test fitting you know.

So what's the word? Did the seller actually keep his promise and refund you some of the cash?

BP

Check arrived in the mail today ... now I just hope the damn thing clears his account (personal check). If not, just one more thing for the lawyer to enjoy

Enough about the possibilities of me recouping some of this loss, on to the project progress.

I will be porting the heads in the coming evenings (probably start tomorrow), but can only work a few hours at a time. The heads are off the engine since they went to the machine shop and got the valve job, so I will have the opportunity to port the combustion chamber area to lower the CR a bit since I'm planning on using the car to develop the turbo kit. I have a graduated pippet so I can cc the chamber volume to ensure uniformity in the cc measurements. I will post pictures as usual

I hope to be done with this process in about a week since I have a ton of stuff to do around the house

If i were you i would just call whatever bank he wrote the check off of and ask "Are the funds available?" before you deposit the check.

If you have the check in hand you will just need to give them the name and amount of the check to see if it is good. If they tell you they cannot do this then they are fidding to you...i work at a bank.

Originally posted by fastcougar:
I have a graduated pippet so I can cc the chamber volume to ensure uniformity in the cc measurements. I will post pictures as usual

Never heard of that!

J/k

Hey, if you can do it, use solvent instead of water. Water has a higher surface tension.
Whatever, it will work well enough either way, but alcohol will not bubble as much and although it is polar, it isn't as bad as water.

Good luck.

If you plan on using alcohol use vodka - that way half for you, half for measuring the cc's.

Originally posted by Stazi:
If you plan on using alcohol use vodka - that way half for you, half for measuring the cc's.

Yeeeahhh!

Originally posted by Stazi:
If you plan on using alcohol use vodka - that way half for you, half for measuring the cc's.

then he will never end up with accurate measurements!
haha

chamber volume should be around 48cc and the pippet is graduated to 100cc ... I'll just fill her up and have half for me and half for the heads

But how many cc's will fill you up?

Originally posted by warmonger:
But how many cc's will fill you up?

1 ounce (1 shot basically) ~ 29.6cc's (29.57353 to be exact). Now, each head combusion chamber is roughly 48cc and my graduated pippet fills to 100cc's, leaving 52cc's. So, if I do a full pippet fill of vodka per each cylinder measurement and I keep the cylinders under 50cc's, that will leave roughly 50cc's per cylinder. 6 cylinders = 300cc's of remaining vodka = roughly 10 shots! That should do the trick

Just take a straw and do the shot out of the chamber. That wastes very little. That's what any real mechanic would do...

Originally posted by DemonSVT:
Just take a straw and do the shot out of the chamber. That wastes very little. That's what any real mechanic would do...

So, is that like that Miller High Life commercial where the guy is wrenching on his car, then grabs the powdered donut and takes a bite out of it. Sets it down and there's a big grease stain on the donut. Then the Miller guy says "That's just extra flavor.... to a High Life man."

Mark

You got it Mark...

Quick question: Which cam caps should I use, the 3L units that where removed with the 3L cams (using 2.5L SVT Cams) or the use the ones that where on the Cams? I would imagine that the caps should probably follow the cams from head to head instead of the other way around. I have helped on 3 other 3L hybrid setups, all using SVT cams, but because it wasn't my setup, I didn't question which cam caps where used

The caps are matched to the head, not the cam. Each set of caps is line bored to each set of heads. So make sure you use the caps from the heads you're using and also make sure that they go back in the same orientation and location on each head. I always lay mine out and number them when removing just to make reinstallation easier. I always team up each cap, lifter, and follower together to go back in the same spot and strictly move the cams between heads. Some say the finger follower should go with teh cam, but I haven't seen compelling evidence of that yet.

Rick

Yes you CANNOT mix the cam caps at all in eithn position orientaion or location. Even flipping it upside down will make it crack, then basically the ENTIRE head becomes a piece of JUNK.

ZetecNinja mix around his caps and ended up snapping his cam and the caps and that's why he doesn't have a Contour anymore!

Theat's what happens when you try and rebuild a motor without referring to a manual.

If you search on here for "cam cap orientation", you will find a thread by me concerning that exact matter on my "race block" heads. I'm well aware of proper orientation.

Originally posted by Buckshot77:
The caps are matched to the head, not the cam. Each set of caps is line bored to each set of heads. So make sure you use the caps from the heads you're using and also make sure that they go back in the same orientation and location on each head. I always lay mine out and number them when removing just to make reinstallation easier. I always team up each cap, lifter, and follower together to go back in the same spot and strictly move the cams between heads. Some say the finger follower should go with teh cam, but I haven't seen compelling evidence of that yet.

Rick

I "bagged and tagged" mine. Orientation is easy IF the stamping can be found on the cap. If you guys remember the thread that I mentioned above, MANY of my caps where completely missing stampings and with time, I managed to figure out which went where.

I don't "bag and Tag" I actually lay them all out on a flat surface grouped in proper orientation and direction, then give them a final cleaning, lube, and reinstall during the head assembly. It sucks up a lot of flat surface area, but if you use cardboard or something you can move it to a secure out of the way location while prepping the engine.

Rick

That is exactly the same way that I do it! I set them on a shelf in the same orientation, et cetera.
lol Not the first time you've talked about doing things the same way I do.

I have done it that way, but I didn't have enough unobstructed space to do it this time, so I bagged them all and labeld the bags like so: 7R-L, 7R-R, etc.

7R-L = 7 on right head (left side RFF in bag)
7R-R = 7 on right head (right side RFF in bag)
Then in one of those bags I have the 7R cam cap.

All these baggies are in an open handle office box, which can be moved around the garage with ease. This allowed me to clear up my work bench for the head portings & cc measuring.

Originally posted by warmonger:
That is exactly the same way that I do it! I set them on a shelf in the same orientation, et cetera.
lol Not the first time you've talked about doing things the same way I do.

I stuck mine in order on a piece of styrofoam but cardboard works for most commoners.

j/k. A little...

Originally posted by DemonSVT:

Originally posted by warmonger:
That is exactly the same way that I do it! I set them on a shelf in the same orientation, et cetera.
lol Not the first time you've talked about doing things the same way I do.

I stuck mine in order on a piece of styrofoam but cardboard works for most commoners. j/k. A little...

Now all you need to do is figure out how to do a brake job and you'll insure your position as head commoner.

Does that position come with a nifty hat and a big belt buckle?

I too have noticed that the stamped numbers aren't always exactly visible, so before I take them off I always scratch in the nunber and leter into the top of the cap with a scribe so in cas eI dropped them on the flor I'd know where they go. Typically though I take off one cam at a time and replace the caps immediately so that they alwasy go back on the way the came off so nothing gets mixed up or lost. Becuase like I sai, damaging or losing a cam cap basically makes the entire head a useless lump of metal cos you cannot substitue a cap from another engine.

My dad has a beautifull little stamping kit with letters and numbers just for this sort of thing. I still haven't got one, or stolen his yet, but I really need it. I find a black sharpie written on the metal after it has been cleaned off with a bit of solvent is good.
However, the king of easy marking is a white-out Pen, the type with the roller ball tip. It will mark on anything short of grease and if you clean the area first you can still see the white marks on future teardowns. White shows up great because in a car everything used is dark. lol

On the stampings that where hard to read/non-existant, I cleaned the cap off with brake clean and then used a sharpie before bagging

I have searched EVERYWHERE and I can't find what I'm looking for: I need to know the optimal exhaust pipe size for this application (3.0L Turbo). I'm leaning towards 2.25" for the up-pipe and 2.75 or 3" for the down-pipe. I want to keep it a little small on the hot side to keep the velocity up to keep the turbo spooled for quick response. I would greatly appreciate your advice/links to resources!

Originally posted by fastcougar:
I have searched EVERYWHERE and I can't find what I'm looking for: I need to know the optimal exhaust pipe size for this application (3.0L Turbo). I'm leaning towards 2.25" for the up-pipe and 2.75 or 3" for the down-pipe. I want to keep it a little small on the hot side to keep the velocity up to keep the turbo spooled for quick response. I would greatly appreciate your advice/links to resources!

I'm going to tell you that 2.5" is small enough for the up pipe, 3" if you have an incorporated wastegate should be fine for the down pipe, or you could do a stepped down-pipe from 2.5 to 2.75 then to 3" where the wastegate pipes back in. Or just dump to atmosphere and keep 2.5" back since about 1/3 of your full throttle exhaust is dumped out the wastegate, you won't need bigger than that.

Mine spools quick even with a .82 exhaust trim
With these pipes I have now, I get full 7psi by 2700-2800 rpm, by 3000 rpm it will be at least 10psi and by 3500 it will hit 14psi. Above that I don't know but any lower and you will always have traction issues on a 3L. Hell it is already bad enough at 7psi even if I smooth into the acceleration.

I have been looking at this for the wastegate solution IF I decide to NOT go external: Ultimate Internal Wastegate

Those V'Band setup's are nice, but expensive......the only other thing is that the external WG setup they have shown may be too thick as there's not a lot of room for the downpipe itself, let alone with an extra bolted on piece.

Keep in mind that I am only designing the system and tacking up the parts. From there, it will be sent to a professional for seam welding ... Once this prototype is sent back and tested extensively, I will evelauate if I want to have it reproduced. BTW, the person doing the actual welding is well known and very respected in the exhaust fabrication industry. After he gets it done, he will evaluate how much it will cost to reproduce (includes creating a jig) ... time will tell. Right now, I simply sizing things up and ordering the appropriate supplies for my "mockup", from which he will fully weld into my prototype.

You know, I almost was about to produce the crossover pipe and down pipe on a jig so that I could sell those parts for turbo kits. But there is a lot of cost and time involved.

I first approached this idea in 2003 but when I got sent to Iraq it threw me off. Then after doing design number three and sensing people out, it isn't as easy as it seems. Most people are in the $1500-$2000 dollar range TOTAL and that isn't enough for a turbo kit, even when there are more affordable pipes.
I think I have the best design right now for reproducibility, durability, and low cost. But I am holding back to see how the contour aftermarket goes. The car is getting older now and that could mean it will fade or it could end up similar to the imports and it could mean it would take off. I just don't want to risk wasting all my money investing in a potential flop that is as expensive as this.

look to other duratec engine bays for a possible cross over kit. The cougar and the Mazda 6...maybe even the Jag later on down the road as they become more affordable. I'm just spittin ideas without research or knowledge but hey...

I've not dug into the contour engine bay too far for turbo kit investigation but you do have a decent amount of freedom for external wastegate placement. It doesn't have to be right before the turbo... it can be sllit nicely at a Y a good deal earlier which might help arranging it to fit. I think the boost control setup for externals is a lot better than most internal gates. I know it's better on my WRX.

Exhaust size is a tricky business. Downpipe sizing is not really a huge deal... where it comes out of the turbo you usually want it to flare outward allowing the gasses to expand. Bigger isn't always better... but in turbo applications it usually doesn't hurt either.

The Up-pipe area is much more critical for sizing. Most people who do custom crap seem to make the up-pipe tubing way too big thinking that bigger is better. The tubing after the 3-1 is what like 2" on the contour headers and I think warmonger mentioned 2.5" which is a pretty good sizing apparenly in practice... and according to what most literature tells us. Make sure you have a smooth transition from up-pipe to turbo turbine too.

I have everything layed out in my head and on paper, but I need to get the metal in front of me and start mocking up ... ordering the piping later this week. Does everyone remember in some of my pictures the pre 99 Contour subframe on the wall? Well, that's coming off the wall and going onto support stands and the longblock is going to be dropped onto it and fabbing will start. It will be build around the engine & subframe, just without the chassis in the way. When time comes to fab up the "cool" side of the piping, I will drop the thing into the car and fab around the chassis

Tosen showed up last night: $525 + $23 shipping. I highly recommend these guys. Took them a little while (10 days from date of purchase to on my doorstep), but they got the right part and an excellent price: http://www.wakeperformance.com

I've been busy as of late with work, taxes, home life ... you know the drill, thus no updates. I have however finished port matching one of the heads and will finish the second head tonight ... pictures to follow. Anyway, the reason for this post wasn't an update on progress, although progress is being made albeit slowly.

I have the Torsen and bearings and transmission going out to Terry Haines in a few days. The "race" tranny for the Cougar is being returned from Terry next week. Considering his currently backlog and workload, I'm not expecting a quick turnaround on the Contour's transmission. However, I want to get this thing running NA before I start development on the turbo kit so I can break in both the engine and SPEC Stage III clutch. So, here is what I am thinking of doing ... your feedback is always welcome!

I have some custom headers on the way that are being used as the basis for the turbo kit. They are 304SS and have provisions for fitting up to the stock Y-Pipe. I will then remove the stock Y-Pipe and fab up my turbo kit on the "hot" side. Once everything is tacked up and fitted properly, the entire mess is going back to the header fabricator for seam welding my tacked pipes and so he can work up an estimate for me on duplicating the piping kit.

The Plan

1) Build up the shortblock this weekend.
2) Pack up the tranny and ship it to Terry next week.
3) While waiting on the transmission return from Terry, begin fabricating the turbo kit.
4) By the time I finish the turbo kit's "Hot" side, the transmission should be back.
5) Fit the transmission with SVT Flywheel and SPEC Stage III clutch.
6) Ship off the "hot" side piping to the fabricator for seam welding/estimate on duplication.
7) Break the car in NA.
8) When I get back the prototype, begin install of turbo kit and swap out MAF/Injectors.
9) TUNE IT! (I have the PRP w/ XCal2)
10) DYNO IT! (I'm looking for 280+whp/tq)
11) SELL IT!

I will let the porting pictures speak for themselves:

what did you use to fill in the unused notch? jb weld?

CEG at its best! By far my favorite thread. "How to build a Hot Rod Contour SVT" by FastCougar!

Keep the pictures and story going! I think you'll have a lot of interest in this car when its done.

What did you use to fill the injector port?

Originally posted by fastcougar:
I will let the porting pictures speak for themselves:

Wow, that method looks VERY familiar.

Also, you did an outstanding job on even cutting there and your fill job is good too.
Only thing I'd recommend is not hitting the central injector port with the bit, but leave it rougher with the casting flash so that it has more projections for the epoxy/weld to stay locked into.

Other than that....it looks VERRRY Familiar....

The main issue I have is you used the gasket as the template for the port size. The gasket is much larger then the outlet ports of the largest LIM. The primary is ~2.5mm larger and the secondary ~1.5mm larger. If you widen the LIM to match the gasket you are losing the taper (natural supercharging effect) of the port sizing. This is bad for a boosted car and especially bad on a NA car. Gasket matching can be a very bad idea because it normally hurts the overall port shape and diameter. What you should do is mount the LIM and see what you have to do to the port & LIM to get them to line up. The LIM is not "perfectly" machined so it will not automatically just line up. The same goes for the UIM as well.

The other issue Tom mentioned. I would not smooth out the center port. You get a much better surface to mate to if you leave it rough.

On an improvement note I would have better blended the side injector port to help promote better fuel atomization. Even having a flat angle is not really bad but having two concave angles (pockets) will make it worse.

I matched my LIM to my heads, which were gasket matched. My LIM has also been heavily ported/reshaped up to the holes the secondary shaft used to run through.

The top half of the LIM is split port (though it has been gasket matched...), but the center divider is knife edged/ported into an elliptical shape all the way up to the old hole for the secondary shaft, so that the final LIM port shape is just like the tumble port head.

I've got dyno proof that it hasn't hurt me at all, infact I've got a lot more torque than simular setups at the same psi.

RED X's

Yeah, very weird ... I just checked my upload location of the images originally and whalla ... gone. VERY weird. I will reupload tonight when I post pictures of the longblock buildup. I didn't finish her, but that's because I'm a stickler for details and well ... I cleaned up the timing cover, primed and painted the engine mount, etc. She is fully timed and the timing cover is on and valve covers are in place (only held in place with one bolt for now). I forgot to order the spark plug tube seals and a new oil pan gasket. So, I will be ordering these today and picking them up tomorrow and continue the buildup later this week.

On a good side note, the "race" transmissions was sitting in my driveway on Friday night when I got home

I immediately unpacked it and packed up the stock unit that is going to TH with the Torsen for a full looking over and replacing of worn parts & fitting the Torsen. I didn't get any pictures of the "race" tranny, but I will tonight when I finish packing up the Contour's tranny. It's shipping to Terry tomorrow.

Ran into a snag that I haven't see before on all the 3L buildups I seen. There is an "ear" on the transmission side of the block that is getting in the way of the oil cooler from the SVT 2.5L:

As you can see, routing the "hard tubing" under the ear causes crimping coming off the sandwitch plate outlet tubes.

However, down tube from the water pump is fine.

Ear location overview.

Reference of the same location on the SVT block ... notice the complete lack of the ear.

So, should I bust out the hack-saw or is there an alternative?

On to the HMS goodness ... Off topic I know, but I just can't wait till the Cougar Turbo 3L build to post these pictures. She's modded to the hilt ... list of mods to follow, but she should be able to laugh at 400 WHP

Nevermind on the Oil Cooler line issue ... I just found this thread: http://www.contour.org/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=3L&Number=1014964&page=&view=&sb=5&o=&fpart=1&vc=1

I'm tired of dumping money on this project ... out comes the hacksaw & angle grinder

Yeah man, SEARCH! This stuff has been covered!

Originally posted by warmonger:
Yeah man, SEARCH! This stuff has been covered!

Now when you do a search, you can actually SEE the problem thanks to me

Block will be going under the knife this weekend to:

1) Drill & Tap the knock sensor hole since the 3L knock sensor threading is much smaller than the 2.5L knock sensor.

2) Remove "ear" in the way of the oil cooler lines

3) Remove the "ears" (note plural use) in the way of the alternator brackets.

Before that can take place, I must first finish installing the valve covers (I was waiting on the spark plug tube seals from the dealership) & oil pan (I must first clean her up). I will not be torquing down the oil pan and will be reusing the original gasket during the steps 1-3 above. I'm not going to use the new pan gasket until I have tapped one of the oil return jackets in the girdle and have removed all the shavings and fitted a fitting for the return line to attach to.

I'm planning on only using SS braded EARLS lines & EARLS connectors ... time to go to Summit Racing

What mods does the HMS trans have to make it a "race" trans? Didn't go with the oiling system?

BTW, it looks dead sexy!

Oh yeah, I almost forgot. I have an electrician coming to the house tomorrow (Thursday 2/2/2006) to give me an estimate on running a dedicated circuit (40 AMP) out of the power box and a double outlet so I can concurrently run the welder and one other shop device (vac or compressor). Luckily, my circuit panel is in the garage and on the same wall that I will be welding and where I run the compressor, so it shouldn't cost too much. As it stands now, I don't have a circuit in the garage rated higher than 15 amps and if I run my compressor and vaccum on the same circuit at the same time, I trip the breaker

Can't weld with that ... the welder alone draws 30 amps.

It's killing me ... everytime I go out in the garage to piddle around the engine for a hour here/there, I look a the welder and get trigger happy. I'm so amped (no pun intended) to get started on this.

Originally posted by Swazo:
What mods does the HMS trans have to make it a "race" trans? Didn't go with the oiling system?

BTW, it looks dead sexy!

1) Gears where removed from their respective shafts and "keyed" to ensure that they wouldn't "spin" ... imagine a gear spinning on the shaft ... much like spinning a bearing. This is assuming you don't first strip off the teeth.

2) Gears where moly coated (Molybdenum): less friction = less stress = less wear & less likely to strip the teeth.

3) Then the regular goodies that Terry does.

Basically, everything possible short of a gear set fitting from Quaife.

Is that tranny in the picture a welded case that had a previous breakage in it?

No, I think you are referring to the "plate" over the speed sensor ... that's to protect the sensor housing

Oh. Protect it from what? Is there going to be a tranny attack????

Can't really say ... I didn't ask for this little mod, but it showed up that way. I'm sure Terry has a good reason for welding it in there. Maybe to "bridge the gap" and add a little strength to the box? I'm not sure ... it wasn't talked about in the 50+ emails we swapped during the work.

Yeah. Probably swapped you an already built tranny. If he didn't add it in the costs for your buildup, then I'd expect it might be a repaired housing at first glance.

Originally posted by warmonger:
Protect it from what?

Zee Germans

Originally posted by warmonger:
Yeah. Probably swapped you an already built tranny. If he didn't add it in the costs for your buildup, then I'd expect it might be a repaired housing at first glance.

Ahh ... makes sense now: Terry emailed me about 3 weeks ago that he was loading the tranny from the work bench into it's tub and the trans slipped off the "sling" he was using. Said it cracked the case on impact. He said that he needed to swap the internals over to a used case that he had (on of his I think) and would explain this mod.

The yellow counter-weight makes for %20 faster shifts, right?

Originally posted by Stazi:
The yellow counter-weight makes for %20 faster shifts, right?

Bwahahaha

Good belly laugh for me since I hadn't seen a lot of yellow lately.

Well, I got in contact with Terry and it turns out that this is a new modification that he is doing and I now remember him talking to me about before approving the work. I wasn't sure what the job involved, thus it didn't ring a bell to me when I saw it.

It's a reinforcement mod to stiffen the diff carrier area of the trans to reduce diff flex that can occur. If you look at the "new" Focus MTX-75 transmissions, this "span" is now filled for this exact reason. We all know FORD wouldn't do this for no reason as it ads costs to have an engineer figure out why it needs it and to retool the assembly line.

Originally posted by fastcougar:
Well, I got in contact with Terry and it turns out that this is a new modification that he is doing and I now remember him talking to me about before approving the work. I wasn't sure what the job involved, thus it didn't ring a bell to me when I saw it.

It's a reinforcement mod to stiffen the diff carrier area of the trans to reduce diff flex that can occur. If you look at the "new" Focus MTX-75 transmissions, this "span" is now filled for this exact reason. We all know FORD wouldn't do this for no reason as it ads costs to have an engineer figure out why it needs it and to retool the assembly line.

Thatâ�?��?�s a whole lot better than â�?��?I accidentally dropped your case and cracked it, but donâ�?��?�t worry, I welded this lovely plate on the side to repair the damage!â�?�

Sounds like a good modification to me. I look forward to sending my transmission to Terry and will probably ask him to do the same modification. I hope he doesnâ�?��?�t get to busy for this kind of stuff in the future.

I think Iâ�?��?�ll skip the fluorescent paint though

hahaha LMAO.

Here is a teaser:

T3/T4 TO4E "o" trim
.70 A/R V-Band Turbine Housing
.50 A/R Compressor Housing

Needless to say, I mutilated the threads on on the other turbo housing trying to drill out the sheared off bolt ... grade 9.8 bolts will do that to you without a drill press. No big deal though since I will be getting another turbine housing for it for about $45 shipped. I however couldn't pass up this turbo for the great deal that I got on it. Yes, it's an eBay special, but for $305 shipped, I couldn't pass it up. The V-Band is the key though as the downpipe that I have designed is based on it

Nice, a dual scroll turbine.

You may want to revise your piping based upon it by feeding both bank pipes right up into the turbo flange, sort of like how the stock y-pipe fed two pipes together into the flange.
Then again it may not matter.

Wouldn't that complicate piping design a bit in the sense that each bank would have to be matched about perfect. A 'normal' uppipe would be better IMHO, especially for duplication for some what mass production later on.

Not really.
The pipe length after the initial collector for one bank is already long enough that tuning at that point isn't an issue. Tuning lengths with turbos is really not a big deal anyway. You can just run two smaller diameter pipes right up to the housings. Supposedly for four cylinder engines the dual scroll really helps out because it keeps a jet of exhaust hitting the turbine wheel directly the whole time rather than having negative pulses on the whole stream. Something like that IIRC.

Anyway, the flow in the pipes on our engine is long enough that it is already fully developed, there are 3 cylinders on each bank, so that also may make it irrelevant.
So not a big deal at all, I was just wondering IF it would help, it definitely won't hurt.

Not trying to add to the complexity here, but a good idea none-the-less. Maybe on the Cougar when the time comes, but considering this turbo will be for the Cougar and is only going on the Contour for kit fitment (same footprint as the other unit), that is an option that I will have for the Cougar. I have piping on the way, so I should have some pics soon of my tacked up/down pipe ... still deciding if I want to share these before deciding on producing the kit ... hmmm ....

Originally posted by fastcougar:
I have piping on the way, so I should have some pics soon of my tacked up/down pipe ... still deciding if I want to share these before deciding on producing the kit ... hmmm ....

Maybe a real concern if you're going commercial since once a design is in the public domain...

On the other hand, your potential customers are a small segment of enthusiasts, many of whom probably click this thread occasionally. This is terrific free advertising that could result in a waiting list if the price is â�?��?right.â�?��?� Following this â�?��?kitâ�?��?� from design to fabrication will give people the desire to join in with their own car.

As long as you are approaching this as more fun than business, go ahead and post some pictures!

Since you've got a split turbine housing you might as well have the engine banks seperated.

I also thought about the split design and like I said, I'm going to pass on it this time round. It will take a lot more than just slap two pipes up and what not. Exhaust pulse timing on seperated banks should probably be more of a first thought than an afterthought

I'm going to be using an "un tanged" flange on the turbo side (no split in the flange - completely open standard T4 flange). Do you think that there would be any draw back to knife edging the wall between the two ports on the turbine housing? I know for flow seperation, this would be ideal, but my only hesitation would be the edge getting too hot due to it being thinner and possibly deforming. Then I began to think why not knife edge and then ceramic coat ... your thoughts/suggestions are always welcome!

Trevor- in previous posts you stated that your turbo was a T3/4. So we should assume that your flange will be for a T3 correct?

That is currect ... typo on my part ... sorry.

Regardless, should I:

1) Knife Edge
2) Knife Edge & Coat
3) Neither

Originally posted by fastcougar:
That is currect ... typo on my part ... sorry.

Regardless, should I:

1) Knife Edge
2) Knife Edge & Coat
3) Neither

I vote for neither

Originally posted by 99cougar:

Originally posted by fastcougar:
That is currect ... typo on my part ... sorry.

Regardless, should I:

1) Knife Edge
2) Knife Edge & Coat
3) Neither

I vote for neither

Why? What experience do you have with porting turbine housings? The list of why's could go on and on ... I'm looking for some education here, not simple yes/no answers.

My theory is that if I knife edge the split bar in the housing, I will create less turbulance in the turbine housing and smooth out exhaust flow. I am hisitant because thinner metal will get hotter MUCH faster than it's thicker counterpart, thus why I would want to coat the turbine housing ... that and more importantly to lower underhood temps and lessen the possibility of melting some underhood wires & help heatsoak the engine/intake air/tubing.

Im really looking forward to seeing a finished product. I look at all the DIY'ers and im just in shock and awe at the level of skill and patience as well as resources available.

Great work, Im sure whatever option you go with will be suitable

Don't touch it.
I would bet good money on the fact that knife edging it won't help at all insofar as performance, and then you make a very thin piece of metal that will be more likely to ROT away under the intense heat of the exhaust! Eventually it will look like an oxidized metal or aluminum tin can sitting in a fire for too long.
IF you had a lot of casting flash on it and wanted to smooth it out then that would be fine to help reduce drag on flow. Even porting for gasket match purposes so that it is the same size as the inlet flange will be fine.
Otherwise NOPE.

Originally posted by warmonger:
Don't touch it.
I would bet good money on the fact that knife edging it won't help at all insofar as performance, and then you make a very thin piece of metal that will be more likely to ROT away under the intense heat of the exhaust! Eventually it will look like an oxidized metal or aluminum tin can sitting in a fire for too long.
IF you had a lot of casting flash on it and wanted to smooth it out then that would be fine to help reduce drag on flow. Even porting for gasket match purposes so that it is the same size as the inlet flange will be fine.
Otherwise NOPE.

Thanks for clarifying my answer Tom.

Originally posted by 99cougar:

Originally posted by warmonger:
Don't touch it.
I would bet good money on the fact that knife edging it won't help at all insofar as performance, and then you make a very thin piece of metal that will be more likely to ROT away under the intense heat of the exhaust! Eventually it will look like an oxidized metal or aluminum tin can sitting in a fire for too long.
IF you had a lot of casting flash on it and wanted to smooth it out then that would be fine to help reduce drag on flow. Even porting for gasket match purposes so that it is the same size as the inlet flange will be fine.
Otherwise NOPE.

Thanks for clarifying my answer Tom.

The .70 A/R housing is a bit small for a 3.0. An .82 would be a better choice for high hp. .70 will end up choking at the top end but really spool up quickly.
I would not knife edge personally due to all the reasons Tom stated. I would consider changing the turbine housing.

Thanks guys ... she will go untouched and uncoated for now. I don't have the time/money left in my budget to order another housing, so the .7 A/R on the turbine will have to stay for now for development purposes. My 3" piping for the down-pipe back arrived a few days ago ... waiting on the 2.5" piping with turbine flange an transitions. I will keep everyone updated with piping progress.

Well, there has been a change of plans:

The transmission is at the house from Terry

So, I will be going to AutoZone this weekend and getting two new half-axles (GCK) since one had a split boot as noted earlier in this thread and the other will no doubt break on me with my luck

So, I will finish up the long block buildup (still need to clean the UIM, attach the DPFE to the head, etc.) ... all small stuff. I will then mate up the tranny to the block and get started on the reinstall into the Contour. It has been TOO long since I have driven the car and I would rather get it back on the road and break in the clutch/engine while fabbing up the turbo system vs. having the car down during fab and then have to break in later and then fit the turbo even later.

All I'm waiting on now is the custom fabed 304SS headers (16 ga 1.625" primaries collected into 2" collector at stock location) ... she's coming along mechanically and I hope to have her running by March 15th

Still waiting on the headers to arrive before moving on ... I want to do as much as possible with the engine out of the car, knowing where I have room to work and where not. Once she is in the car, I will fine tune my measurement. So, I currently working on the oiling lines. I have drilled the block and threaded in a 45 degree 1/2 NPT/-10AN fitting. The return line from the turbo will be -10AN ... pictures of the drain side of the turbo will follow. Here are pictures of the block location that was tapped and a reference shot showing the location with the stock headers to show clearance

3/4" hole drilled to accomodate 1/2 NPT (ID) fitting

-10AN return line installed

Reference picture of tapped location

In case you want to debate the tapping of the block vs. the pan, don't bother ... it's been done in this thread where I also posted these pictures on the subject matter of oil drain material used.

Now on to a questions:

1) What is the thread size of the oil supply galley in the head nearest the firewall (next to the DPFE sensor)? I search and only came up with a single thread and IIRC stated 1/4" NPT, but that seems rather large to me since most turbo supply companies cary mostly 1/8" NPT.

2) Also, what size reducer (oriface size) should I use to reduce oil pressure to the turbo?

that head hole is 1/4". i bought a 1/4" to 1/8" plug, then a 1/8" to -4AN piece, then an oil supply line from ATPturbo.com. they also sell the suggested oil restrictor for my turbo. i dont know that your turbo needs, sorry.

Originally posted by Instigator:
that head hole is 1/4". i bought a 1/4" to 1/8" plug, then a 1/8" to -4AN piece, then an oil supply line from ATPturbo.com. they also sell the suggested oil restrictor for my turbo. i dont know that your turbo needs, sorry.

Thanks ... odd you should mention ATP ... that is where I have gotten a good deal of my components for the install including all the tubing for the downpipe and exhaust. They have great customer service and decent prices for quality bends and parts. Yes there prices can be beat, but quality usually suffers.

I used a soft phillips head bolt that I threaded into the oil fitting I installed on top of the turbo. Then I shaped the top to fit the A/N fitting shape, then drilled it using a 1/16" bit. The 1/16" hole seems more than sufficient for that engine oiling system to provide plenty of oil.

lol, i got pretty much everything from them.....good site, and great support too

For the oil feed, I used a Function7 billet aluminum oil feed flange with a built in restrictor and is -4AN, at the turbo. I have a -4AN steel braided line that runs to an earl's -4AN to 1/4" NPT adapter to back of the right head.

PS- I also have my block tapped in the same location for my return line, and it clears my MSDS headers fine.

Originally posted by Swazo:
For the oil feed, I used a Function7 billet aluminum oil feed flange with a built in restrictor and is -4AN, at the turbo. I have a -4AN steel braided line that runs to an earl's -4AN to 1/4" NPT adapter to back of the right head.

PS- I also have my block tapped in the same location for my return line, and it clears my MSDS headers fine.

I've been watching these on eBay ... until now ... just did a buy it now. Thanks for the suggestion!

Just a little followup on the measurements involved here.

Tom stated:

Originally posted by warmonger:
I used a soft phillips head bolt that I threaded into the oil fitting I installed on top of the turbo. Then I shaped the top to fit the A/N fitting shape, then drilled it using a 1/16" bit. The 1/16" hole seems more than sufficient for that engine oiling system to provide plenty of oil.

The Daymon followed up with:

Originally posted by Swazo:
For the oil feed, I used a Function7 billet aluminum oil feed flange with a built in restrictor ...

The Function 7 piece has an orifice of 1.6mm. Just thought everyone would like to know that 1/16" = .0625" = 1.5875 mm. BTW, I did these calculations before ordering the function 7 piece, but forgot to post them with regards to Tom's advice ... thanks guys!

I haven't been happy with my 304SS welding and then I realized something ... I have been using 308SS wire with plain 72% Ar, 25% CO2. I remember reading that a high volume of Helium should be used in the gas mix when using MIG on SS. So, I did some quick research and sure enough, MIGing on 304SS should use what's called a Tri-mix of 90% He, 7.5% Ar & 2.5% CO2.

So, today at lunch, I went by the local gas supplier and picked up a small bottle and let me tell you, this [censored] is expensive! $65 deposit on the bottle, $100 fill for a "small bottle" roughly 3' hight cylinder ... I will check the capacity tonight. That's a lot of money just to lay down a nice bead, but it must be done. Ar/CO2 with 308SS filler wire will cause a contaminated weld, which will weaken the weld and cause it to be more prone to cracking/failing. It's a compromise I'm not willing to live with ... I'm a perfectionist.

Now, I know you must be thinking "but you are only tacking this" ... well, if my fabricator comes back to me with an estimate that is too high for my liking, I'm prepaired to build these myself with my MIG, but I must first perfect my skills. This doesn't mean laying a "good bead", for me, this means laying down a "great bead" that is structurally sound and not contaminated.

I can't wait to get started on more practice this weekend! I just need to pick up some more Acetone for prep work ... I ran out

must be nice using stainless steel for your turbo. mines gonna be a ghetto-fab ugly mild steel setup

function before fashion is my motto.

have any pictures of the fmic with the bumper off ?

Originally posted by fastcougar:
Just a little followup on the measurements involved here.

Tom stated:
Originally posted by warmonger:
I used a soft phillips head bolt that I threaded into the oil fitting I installed on top of the turbo. Then I shaped the top to fit the A/N fitting shape, then drilled it using a 1/16" bit. The 1/16" hole seems more than sufficient for that engine oiling system to provide plenty of oil.

The Daymon followed up with:
Originally posted by Swazo:
For the oil feed, I used a Function7 billet aluminum oil feed flange with a built in restrictor ...

The Function 7 piece has an orifice of 1.6mm. Just thought everyone would like to know that 1/16" = .0625" = 1.5875 mm. BTW, I did these calculations before ordering the function 7 piece, but forgot to post them with regards to Tom's advice ... thanks guys!

Thanks! I thought everyone missed it because I wasn't sure how clear I explained my method on building a cheap restrictor fitting for the. Turbo. About $1.50 total.

Originally posted by fastcougar:
I haven't been happy with my 304SS welding and then I realized something ... I have been using 308SS wire with plain 72% Ar, 25% CO2. I remember reading that a high volume of Helium should be used in the gas mix when using MIG on SS. So, I did some quick research and sure enough, MIGing on 304SS should use what's called a Tri-mix of 90% He, 7.5% Ar & 2.5% CO2.

So, today at lunch, I went by the local gas supplier and picked up a small bottle and let me tell you, this [censored] is expensive! $65 deposit on the bottle, $100 fill for a "small bottle" roughly 3' hight cylinder ... I will check the capacity tonight. That's a lot of money just to lay down a nice bead, but it must be done. Ar/CO2 with 308SS filler wire will cause a contaminated weld, which will weaken the weld and cause it to be more prone to cracking/failing. It's a compromise I'm not willing to live with ... I'm a perfectionist.

Now, I know you must be thinking "but you are only tacking this" ... well, if my fabricator comes back to me with an estimate that is too high for my liking, I'm prepaired to build these myself with my MIG, but I must first perfect my skills. This doesn't mean laying a "good bead", for me, this means laying down a "great bead" that is structurally sound and not contaminated.

I can't wait to get started on more practice this weekend! I just need to pick up some more Acetone for prep work ... I ran out

Try 98/2 a mixture of 98% Argon and 2% Oxygen. Much cheaper, reduces the carbon buildup and allows as good weld bead.
I was going to get tri mix but my welder supplier explained that it worked well and for the money worked very well. I also found info online about it.
Save yourself the cash... and remember that you can also use it to weld normal mild steel, so you can jump back and forth with differnt types of wire with it; making it even more convenient.

Yes, you are welcome.

Originally posted by Russell-3L:
must be nice using stainless steel for your turbo. mines gonna be a ghetto-fab ugly mild steel setup

function before fashion is my motto.

Do some more research on manifold/turbo system fabrication ... your comment couldn't be further from the truth.

Thanks for the advice Tom ... unfortunately, I have already purchased the bottle w/fill, so I will be using it till it's all gone.

I have come to realized one thing. Even with all the right tools (I very few fabrication tools), this R&D takes time and money and I can now see why many fab shops charge what they do! But $6,000 for a "large" T3/T4 kit ... outrageous in my book and thus why I took the gamble on this SVT. I should have just saved the money and built up the Cougar and take it for a custom one-off setup or done what I am doing now and learn to do it myself and saved even more. Oh well, you live and learn.

Originally posted by fastcougar:

I have come to realized one thing. Even with all the right tools (I very few fabrication tools), this R&D takes time and money and I can now see why many fab shops charge what they do! But $6,000 for a "large" T3/T4 kit ... outrageous in my book and thus why I took the gamble on this SVT. I should have just saved the money and built up the Cougar and take it for a custom one-off setup or done what I am doing now and learn to do it myself and saved even more. Oh well, you live and learn.

Many of us could have probaly told you that a while ago, but we figured you probaly wouldn't listen.

You have to figure that part of that six grand for SS turbo is the tig welder machine and tungstens alone. A cheap good machine usualy starts around $2k, generaly anyone using them for any length of time have a larger sometimes water cooled unit ranging from $4000 on up. Not to mention it takes longer to do, and you have to have/pay some one that has those skills. Like you said adds up quick. No one migs stainless that does serious work. Good luck with finishing it, takes some patients for sure.

While that is true that tungsten tips and a TIG machine are expensive, that is an overhead item required to FAB anything exhaust component related and should jack the price up. Most people that Fab for a living with weld on the side for $10 a seam ... think about that and how many seam welds there are in the ADC kit ... probably $200-$300 worth of welding

Originally posted by fastcougar:
While that is true that tungsten tips and a TIG machine are expensive, that is an overhead item required to FAB anything exhaust component related and should jack the price up. Most people that Fab for a living with weld on the side for $10 a seam ... think about that and how many seam welds there are in the ADC kit ... probably $200-$300 worth of welding

Well... having bought one, I'm not complaining about the $6K. Well thought out, bolt on performance is worth a premium when time is truly the hardest thing to find. 20 years ago I absolutely would not have felt that way!

I just wish they would ship the darn thing to me. Itâ�?��?�s still in Arizona.

The kind of design and fabrication you are doing is real appealing to me and I am sure gives you great satisfaction. Iâ�?��?�ll have to wait my chance to play until after I retire and have time for a GT40 kit car or maybe a Noble.

Originally posted by fastcougar:
Thanks for the advice Tom ... unfortunately, I have already purchased the bottle w/fill, so I will be using it till it's all gone.

I have come to realized one thing. Even with all the right tools (I very few fabrication tools), this R&D takes time and money and I can now see why many fab shops charge what they do! But $6,000 for a "large" T3/T4 kit ... outrageous in my book and thus why I took the gamble on this SVT. I should have just saved the money and built up the Cougar and take it for a custom one-off setup or done what I am doing now and learn to do it myself and saved even more. Oh well, you live and learn.

Take this statement and look back over the years at the things I built, three separate systems in fact. All of them were working on ways to make the process you are going through more efficient and therefore more economical as well as make any subsequent parts to be equal or better in form and function.
I culiminated all that into the last kit which worked so well. I wasn't cheap per se, but I more or less made wide decisions on what needed to be upgraded and why.

that's really a nice looking SVT. I'm glad you decided to fix her up.

any good pics of the build , post motor built and manifold mock up? are u going toms route using weapon r headers? and just chopping them up or using there design?

Route I plan on using is very simple ... I following the outlets of the stock headers so that I can create a "universal" up-pipe that can be used with or without stock headers, MSDS headers, or dare I say it ... those "other" headers which aren't being made any more. My goal is a very friendly bolt on setup that requires VERY little/No modification to the chassis. Currently, I'm working on how I plan to accomplish this AND retain use of the stock windshield washer fuild bottle.

I got word from my fabricator that the headers I had ordered are done and ready to be shipped. I should see them by Friday of next week hopefully and can get started on tubing routing. I have "taken a break" so to speak with 99.9% of the longblock buildup done. All I have to do now is to order "post style" Coolant Temp Sensor in the crossover pipe. Once that is fitted, I'm done with the longblock and ready to bolt up the trans. Obviously I must first fit the SPEC Stage III and SVT Flywheel, but that is less than a 30 minute job. Mate all that to the tranny and I'm good to start dropping it into the car.

I "may" still fab everything up outside the car, but I need a few bits of metal to simulate a fenderwell in order to bolt everything to my spare subframe ... much easier I think and less time consuming to simply fab everything with the engine/tranny in the car ... I'm still wrestling with this one.

I got tired of looking at the "tub" in the garage so I decided to open it up and take the newly rebuilt transmission out and introduce it to the engine. Before I could do that, the engine needed some things attached:

New SVT Flywheel ... I orginally had it for the Cougar buildup, but decided to go Fidanza for the Cougar, so it was an extra. Add to that a SPEC Stage III (sprung hub) and you have a nice looking setup that will hook up without a problem.

On to the transmission. She mated up without any hassles, but I made a small mistake. When I disconnected the transmission from the original SVT engine that was blown, I didn't label the bolts or document which went where. I did however put them all in a baggy. However, I have 8 bolts and only 7 holes accounted for ... can someone help me identify where I have the wrong bolts.

The 4 "top" bolts are all "short"

This bottom bolt on the "front" of the engine is also "short"

The bottom bolt on the "rear" of the engine is also "short", while the top bolt is "long".

The other "long" bolt is different from the one in the engine/transmission because it has a stopping tab to stop it from backing out ... can't figure out if this is a "stray" bolt or does it belong on the transmission/engine joining or elsewhere?

This....

Goes here... (You'll need the nut for it.)

What is that oil return line for on an N/A motor?!

Originally posted by MapOfTaziFoShoâ�??¢:
What is that oil return line for on an N/A motor?!

Read much?

Originally posted by todras:

Originally posted by MapOfTaziFoShoâ�??¢:
What is that oil return line for on an N/A motor?!

Read much?

Here is my confusion he states that he has a fidanza and spec 3 for the cougar...I thought the cougar motor was going to be the turbo one...and now he has an HMS trans that is gray in color instead of the red one he posted earlier...sorry I can't pay THAT much attention!

Originally posted by MapOfTaziFoShoâ�??¢:
sorry I can't pay THAT much attention!

Then don't post!

I bought a 1999 Cougar as a project car. The "race" engine that I talk about (full built w/forged internals) is for the Cougar. I then got "cheap" and decided NOT to drop $6,000 on the ADC kit. So, I decided to start looking for a turbo cdw-27 car to revert to stock and remove the turbo system from. The rest is history. However, I still have/had parts for the Cougar that I'm using on this Contour. The transmission was sent to TH and thus the "silver" one. The "red" one is for the Cougar. Cleared up?

Thanks Todd for the explination of the bolt location ... I have a spare nut that fits ... which side does the nut go on ... tranny or engine side ... does it even matter?

I've put plenty of attention into this thread...

I am confused as to why the engine with the oil return for a turbo is being bolted with that trans as opposed to this one

The nut goes on the trans side if memory serves.

Originally posted by Keyser:
The nut goes on the trans side if memory serves.

Yep.

Originally posted by MapOfTaziFoShoâ�??¢:
I've put plenty of attention into this thread...

I am confused as to why the engine with the oil return for a turbo is being bolted with that trans as opposed to this one ... image removed to save bandwidth ...

I'm developing the turbo system on the Contour and then adapting it to fit the Cougar ... thus allowing me to develop a turbo kit which will work with both platforms since there are minor difference in the front bumper area where a FMIC system will run into fitment issues.

Remember: red = race = Cougar

Originally posted by fastcougar:

Originally posted by MapOfTaziFoShoâ�??¢:
I've put plenty of attention into this thread...

I am confused as to why the engine with the oil return for a turbo is being bolted with that trans as opposed to this one ... image removed to save bandwidth ...

I'm developing the turbo system on the Contour and then adapting it to fit the Cougar ... thus allowing me to develop a turbo kit which will work with both platforms since there are minor difference in the front bumper area where a FMIC system will run into fitment issues.

Remember: red = race = Cougar

You're a bigger badass than I had comprehended!

It does not- The nut goes on the engine side.

I pulled a powertrain out this past weekend, so I remember it clearly. The stop collar stops on the trans case- There is nothing on the engine side to stop it.

Originally posted by DanG:
It does not- The nut goes on the engine side.

I pulled a powertrain out this past weekend, so I remember it clearly. The stop collar stops on the trans case- There is nothing on the engine side to stop it.

Exactly. There is a slot for the tab on the transmission bell housing. Should be self explanatory when you try to fit it.
Looking from the back of the transmission, left side second bolt up from the bottom IIRC.

Originally posted by todras:

Originally posted by MapOfTaziFoShoâ�??¢:
sorry I can't pay THAT much attention!

Then don't post!

Oh...and your posts all make cents?

OK, back on topic

Just got a call from the wife ... the headers are in

Time to start welding some more and get my butt in gear. It should be interesting to see how things go considering that since I openly announced developing this kit, two other professional shops have announced the future release of similar kits. Of course, I'm not looking to make a huge profit like I'm sure they are ... I just looking for a few hundred $$ per kit to help offset my loss on this Contour and hopefully provide the best designed kit in the process

Originally posted by todras:

Originally posted by Keyser:
The nut goes on the trans side if memory serves.

Yep.

Disagree:

The nut goes on the engine side....the tab on the bolt rests into cast slots on the trans and prevents it from turning....I'll take a pic tonight if you'ld like....

Originally posted by todras:

Originally posted by pole120:
The nut goes on the engine side....the tab on the bolt rests into cast slots on the trans and prevents it from turning....I'll take a pic tonight if you'ld like....

No need to take a picture ... I will have it installed minutes after getting home ... the description makes perfect sense. Thanks for the offer though.

Originally posted by Judge:

Originally posted by todras:

Originally posted by MapOfTaziFoShoâ�??¢:
sorry I can't pay THAT much attention!

Then don't post!

Oh...and your posts all make cents?

Dollars and cents!

It's one thing after another with this car ... must keep a level head ...

Discovered why the battery was dead/dieing ... the 175am "Mega Fuse" on the fuseblock between the starter and alternator was blown. To make matters worse, I tried to remove the "post" nuts to get at the fuse and the black casing holding the block together cracked ... thanks Ford!

On a good note though, the headers fit damn well and the oil return line has plenty of clearance. Oh yeah, I will also post pictures tonight of what the oil level in the pan looks like with less than 5 full quarts in it (about 4.75-4.9 quarts). It only leaves roughly 1/4" to the top of the pan. Add in the 1/8" gasket and another quart, and I'm very glad I decided to tap the block

Originally posted by fastcougar:

Discovered why the battery was dead/dieing ... the 175am "Mega Fuse" on the fuseblock between the starter and alternator was blown.

i had the same problem. Replaced the alternator and the battery kept dying.

Originally posted by beyondloadedSE:

Originally posted by fastcougar:

Discovered why the battery was dead/dieing ... the 175am "Mega Fuse" on the fuseblock between the starter and alternator was blown.

i had the same problem. Replaced the alternator and the battery kept dying.

How much was the fuse? This looks identicle, but the 32volt (I think is just the MAX it can handle) is throwing me off: http://shop.sailnet.com/product_info.php/products_id/2545

It's just a 75A megafuse. Pretty cheap.

Just ordered the Fuse through Bill Jenkins along with the post style coolant sensor in the crossover pipe. Fuse was like $4.

OK, here are the pictures of the oil pan off the engine, leveled and then filled with just less than 5 quarts of oil (roughly 4.75-4.9qts.)

How this translates to oil level on the dipstick

Now for a teaser:

So when are you going to coat those headers?

After mockup, the entire setup is going to be broken down and sent to the fabricator for welding. During that time, I will be installing the stock setup and will breakin the car/clutch N/A. When they get back from the fabricator, they are off to JetHot

Enough sitting around ... time to get started on the "hot" side:

It all starts with a T3 turbine inlet flange. In this case, a .500" thick 304L SS tapped unit from ATP Turbo.

After about 30 minutes of careful "smashing" in the vise and massaging with a 5 lb. small sledge, you can make a 2.5" 304SS tube to look something like this:

However, it still needs to be "swedged". This is taken after it was tacked on opposing side.

After swedging.

I then flip it over and tack the nicely reshapped side. This leaves one more side to do ... so, how exactly do you swedge a pipe? With some heat of course!

Here we go again on the opposite side ... before:

Heat that puppy up ...

She is ready to start massaging with a 3/8" extension and the 5 lb. sledge when she is glowing bright cherry red ... this picture was take 5 seconds after and she was already starting to cool to a nice dull orange:

After the "massage":

I then tacked the corners to keep them in place. At this point, I have 8 tacks ... 1 on each side and 1 on each corner. Time to start connecting the tacks:

Not the prettiest I know, but she will hold no problem. Now, on the techincal welding stuff ... butt welding a pipe to a VERY thick flange ... aim the wire at the flange and let it creap up the wall

Now, regardless of the fact that the flange was thick as hell, she still warped pretty badly. So, I decided to heat up the flange for a few minutes and then bolt her to the turbo. I then reheated and let cool twice more to stress releave the built up pressure. I will see how well it worked tomorrow night.

My favorite picture of all:

I forgot to add or take pictures (will tomorrow) of the inside. Since it was butt welded, there was a seam that needed to be sealed up. so, I ran a bead all the way around the inside seam and then ground it down.

This was my second flange/pipe combo. My first setup, the flange was slightly larger (mild steel as well) and I was able to fit the tubing inside the flange. I then welded it up just like you see in the headers ... full seam weld around the inside of the flange and full external weld as well. Inside was then ground down.

I wanted to do that with this flange, but couldn't because the opening was just too small. If I wanted to, I would have to slit one side and notch it and then crush the pipe down and close the notch and then seam weld that notch ... too much hassle. I'm very confident that this butt weld will hold just fine.

Originally posted by fastcougar:
I forgot to add or take pictures (will tomorrow) of the inside. Since it was butt welded, there was a seam that needed to be sealed up. so, I ran a bead all the way around the inside seam and then ground it down.

This was my second flange/pipe combo. My first setup, the flange was slightly larger (mild steel as well) and I was able to fit the tubing inside the flange. I then welded it up just like you see in the headers ... full seam weld around the inside of the flange and full external weld as well. Inside was then ground down.

I wanted to do that with this flange, but couldn't because the opening was just too small. If I wanted to, I would have to slit one side and notch it and then crush the pipe down and close the notch and then seam weld that notch ... too much hassle. I'm very confident that this butt weld will hold just fine.

When you are done welding the up and down pipes onto your flanges, just take them down to the machine shop and get them surfaced so they are flat. ESPECIALLY on the down pipe because there is no gasket on it. I used the steel gasket on the up-pipe and no issues.

Also, you can prevent the warpage by not letting the stainless heat up so much. It also welds better. If it gets hot then let it cool down a bit. Preheating a little is fine and may help if the two metals are at different temps, but in No way should you be making it rosy red hot IMHO. Everytime I let my 304 stainless piping get that hot I either blew a hole in it during the weld or it would pop and warp.
Also, you can hammer your pipes when just warm to fit the shape of your flanges as it makes it easier to work with. Work hardening from hammering will make the metal a bit tougher, but when you weld it the stress will relax anyway as it cools in ambient air temps. Saves some time.

BTW, butt welds are fine, I did that on all my flanges so I wouldn't be reducing the cross sectional area or having any weld beads in the way. They hold great too.

Not that butt welds won't work but it's recommended from what i've seen to slide the tube through the flange and seam weld it on the face of the flange and then do supporting welds on the outside (not a continuous weld). Of course this would depend on the how the flange is made... like what size it's machined to internally. It looks like you would have had room to do this in the pics.

Might want to do a little port matching on the turbine housing too if you didn't already plan on that.

But anywho... looks pretty good so far.

Like I said, I did it both ways ... the pictures above are of the butt welding method. I will take more pictures tonight of the my other up-pipe along with internal measurements. Due to the other flange's opening being much larger, I had to swedge the pipe out quite a bit, so I think my other flange is actually wider inside. Both look good ... however, I see a difinite improvement in my welding on this one.

Originally posted by warmonger:
Also, you can hammer your pipes when just warm to fit the shape of your flanges as it makes it easier to work with. Work hardening from hammering will make the metal a bit tougher, but when you weld it the stress will relax anyway as it cools in ambient air temps. Saves some time.

After cold working the metal, I stress releaved it by warming and then letting room cool.

Actually to stress relieve it properly...you heat it until it has a dull red glow..then wrap it with a fire blanket (get them at a welders supply store) and it lets it SLOWLY cool down (we are talking hourse here). Never had a crack while doing this. Also, if you ever need to MIG weld cast iron: preheat the hell out of it, weld it, then reheat it and wrap with same blanket and leave it till morning. Butt welding is not the best idea in an instance like this. Inserting the tube part way and seam weld inside, then as Barge said stitch weld the outter perimeter to give it some stress relief. Weling inherently creates a stress riser and that is wh you se most cracks will be outsie the weld. It is sometimes from overheating the part but mostly due to the fact that is the highest place of stress.

BTW....nice work so far....keep it going....and invest in a TIG welder..its worth every penny

Originally posted by Judge:
... and invest in a TIG welder..its worth every penny

I know ... I just don't have $2K for the Miller I want right now because of this project ... it's a catch 22

Wow Trevor, you have come a long way since I last checked in on this thread. I'm glad to see things are looking up for you during this whole ordeal.

Are you still going to recoop more losses from the seller?
Have you decided on selling the piping kit or not?

I did a little cleanup ... notice the "hole" in this picture? It was caused by me "skipping" over the tack weld.

All fixed!

Considering all the pipe cleanup that is needed after using a chop saw to cut the tubing, I needed to add a new tool to the arsenal.

It came in VERY handy today when I was able to sand down the warped flange ... completely flat now!

Today was spent cleaning up the garage and trying to get more organized so I could arrange the tools in a "production" type environment so I could cut, debur and weld without much fuss. In order to clear up wall space on the back wall AND to help fabricate the kit, I decided to mount the engine to the spare sub-frame fairly well elevated off the ground. This will aid greatly in the tube running & fabrication:

Back to the tubing ... got started on the front 90 degree bend/socket to go around the oil pan and meet up with the rear bank exhaust. In this pic you can see how much I had to cut down the socket & "leg" off the 90 degree bend. Needless to say, the sander was invaluable!

Everything lined up nice & flush and I was able to bevel the edges (for full penetration of the weld)

A closeup of the tack welds.

I will not be seaming the tacks until the entire up-pipe is complete. I hope to be at that point in about 2 weeks ... I'm still waiting on a shipment of 15 degree bends that I will be using to fabricate my 2" in, 2.5" out 2 into 1 collector. I'm getting pretty good with the welder and have no doubt that I can make this merge collector without much trouble.

Almost forgot ... I also ordered a horizonatl/verticle band saw for cutting tubing ... harbor freight is good for some things:

Yeah I've worked with that saw. The band pops off A LOT. I wouldn't give it a glowing recommendation.

Originally posted by Keyser:
Yeah I've worked with that saw. The band pops off A LOT. I wouldn't give it a glowing recommendation.

In both positions or more so in one over the other?

More so in the horizontal position. The little table that you use for the verticle position will need to be secured better. The one I used the bolts broke and it had to be re-tapped. It can still pop off in this position but not as frequently.

Originally posted by fastcougar:

Originally posted by Judge:
... and invest in a TIG welder..its worth every penny

I know ... I just don't have $2K for the Miller I want right now because of this project ... it's a catch 22

Forget the Miller....Lincoln Precision TIG series with squarewave....and liquid cooled torch....it is pricey but OH so worth it.

Originally posted by Judge:

Originally posted by fastcougar:

Originally posted by Judge:
... and invest in a TIG welder..its worth every penny

I know ... I just don't have $2K for the Miller I want right now because of this project ... it's a catch 22

Forget the Miller....Lincoln Precision TIG series with squarewave....and liquid cooled torch....it is pricey but OH so worth it.

If you can't afford the liquid cooled stuff. Thermal dynamics 185tsw square wave air cooled will be more then sufficient for this kind of work. I got mine with all necessary attachments also bought the argon tank for well under $2K. With the little bit of exhaust work I did with mine it was awesome SS or mild steel. Never got to try it yet on AL but hopefully soon I will.

Originally posted by Judge:
Actually to stress relieve it properly...you heat it until it has a dull red glow..then wrap it with a fire blanket (get them at a welders supply store) and it lets it SLOWLY cool down (we are talking hourse here). Never had a crack while doing this. Also, if you ever need to MIG weld cast iron: preheat the hell out of it, weld it, then reheat it and wrap with same blanket and leave it till morning. Butt welding is not the best idea in an instance like this. Inserting the tube part way and seam weld inside, then as Barge said stitch weld the outter perimeter to give it some stress relief. Weling inherently creates a stress riser and that is wh you se most cracks will be outsie the weld. It is sometimes from overheating the part but mostly due to the fact that is the highest place of stress.

BTW....nice work so far....keep it going....and invest in a TIG welder..its worth every penny

Extremely useful info for the uninformed here

Excellent discussion gentlemen

How much effin cuttin' are you planning on doing here. All this extra equipment is gonna make your turbo kit worth a zillion bucks.

Originally posted by Stazi:
How much effin cuttin' are you planning on doing here. All this extra equipment is gonna make your turbo kit worth a zillion bucks.

I'm planning on building a kit ... which would require a production environment ... not to mention, this isn't the ONLY thing that I ever plan on fabricating. I view tools in a much different light: You can never have enough "good" tools and they are 10 times their value in TIME when you have the right ones

Imagine assembling an entire engine from the ground up with only box wrenches ... all because you didn't get a socket wrench. Yes, it's possible, but there are better tools suited for the same needs.

I will get more use out of a bandsaw and belt/disc sander that I will out of most any other fabrication tools.

Quick update:

1) The band saw has arrived, but it's still in the box and needs to be put together. It's going to be at least a 4 hour job because I need to clear out that side of the garage and free up the space. All the tools must go as close to the wall as possible since the Cougar will share that space once it's done.

2) Got started on the piping other than just tacking the "cup" on the end of a 90* 2" pipe. I have since welded that seam and also mated that to another 90* and I'm fully around the oil pan now on the "front" bank. Problem though ... I don't have any more 90* bends ... dumb dumb dumb ... I ordered the wrong quantity thinking I had the right quantity. <I slap myself>

3) Rather than wait another week for just a single 90* bend, I'm going to just order enough of everything to duplicate the entire setup ... consider this the "alpha" build and I'm ordering the "beta" materials

Update to the update

Fabbing around the subframe in the garage while helpful, isn't all the much more helpful from fabbing in the bay. Time to drop the engine into the car ... I will be doing this solo on Saturday.

I preperation, I undid the "tucking" of the fusebox panel from the fender well back into the engine bay last night. I will post pictures tonight.

Lesson #1: 1999 Cougar shift cable ends will not work in a 1998.5 SVT Contour. The shank diameter in the Countour cables is larger and the pitch is more "rough". I basically wasted nearly 5 hours finding this out. I woke up at 6:40 AM, was out of the house by 7:00 AM on my way to DanG's since he had a spare set of ends. I got to his house around 8:10 AM. We talked for over an hour about car stuff and what not. I left his place around 10:00 AM and got gas for the drive home. Got home around 11:15 AM. Found out that the threads where different around 11:30 AM and I was highly pissed! Looks like I will have to be changing the cable ends "in-car" now.

So, I decided to move on and remove the custom headers (for the Cougar) and replace them with the stock manifolds. I decided to gut them first, so I started on the front bank.

Lesson #2: If you are going to gut a manifold and weld the "poking" hole, do so in the horizontal position to avoid molten metal from splashing into the threads of the O2 bungs. Dumb me decided to weld them vertically, welding down onto the hole (at the bottom of the manifold). Welding came out great, but some platter fell down the chamber and managed to land in the upper O2 bung threads. Needless to say, I wasted yet another hour. I scrapped the gutted manifolds in the interest of getting the engine into the car by 5:00PM (my deadline due to an Easter Egg hunt we had planned for our son).

So, basically, I didn't start to drop in the engine until around 2:30 PM since I broke for lunch around 1:45PM. Good thing I fixed the wiring the night before!

On to the pictures:

Before, fusebox "tucked" into the fender well.

Here you can see the "shelf" that the fusebox was resting on (bottom left of picture ... angle iron welded to front frame box. The fusebox cover was removed.

Fuse box, fuse/relay cluster and the cover.

free hanging wires (plug into cluster) are pulled through, making way for the other cluster to be pulled through.

Everything through ... getting to this point took about 30 minutes.

Everything put back together ... total time roughly 45 minutes.

Another angle to show the wheel well exposure.

Engine in ... sorry, no action shots ... I worked non-stop for 2 hours to get to this poing by myself ... a lot of checking clearance and rechecking and moving wires/tubes, lowering 1/2 inch here and there ... those that have done this by themselves knows that it takes caution and a lot of double/triple checking of clearances.

It became very clearn that I was going to have clearnce issues with the oil dipstick ... a little force on the top and she fits to clear the hood.

A lot of connections left to make.

More connections to be done.

A/C compressor must be fitted, radiator & fans must be added as well.

Over all, a good days worth of work, but considering the time wasted, I should have been starting the car at this point ... that will have to wait till a future weekend. However, I now have a lot of room in the garage to start getting organized to finish building the turbo kit.

Looks great so far!!!

The trouble with the cable, was a wasted time. BUt you will get her doen. Looks dman good so far.

Am i missing something in the thread, casue you removed the custom headers? y?

Simple really ... I want to use them on the Cougar instead

Originally posted by fastcougar:
Simple really ... I want to use them on the Cougar instead

This doesn't exactly tell the whole story. Since I am trying to develop a "universal" turbo kit, which doesn't require the use of headers, I figured it best to try and use the stock manifolds.

Originally posted by fastcougar:
Simple really ... I want to use them on the Cougar instead

Yeah, but SVT Contours are way better than a mere cougar....you are focusing on the wrong car IMHO

war =

Not a real update ... nothing and I mean nothing has changed. Supplies have come in however. I got my 1.5" tubing for the waste gate and the 2" 15* bends for the collector, but no work has been done. I have been gearing up for vacation next week

I just ordered the 90* 2" bend that I need (forgot about) and that should arrive when I'm gone. When I get back, hopefully I can find the motivation to at least get the car wired up and started. Once that hurdle is cleared, I will probably be motivated enough to find the time to start welding again.

Fired up the car today AND took her for a nice little drive (sans exhaust system/y-pipe) ... damn loud! This thing rips at only 1/2 throttle in 2nd/3rd gear.

Started right up no problems what soever. I pulled the fuel pump fuse & disconnected the coil pack and cranked for 10 seconds. Stopped for 30 seconds and then cranked another 10 seconds to build up oil pressure in the HLA's. Connected the coil pack and put back in the fuse and she fired immediately without hesitation. I have some video of the big moment and will post it later.

I feel like a ton of bricks are off my shoulder. Now all I have to do is straighten up the garage and get started on finishing the turbo system.

Quick question. I never capped the oil return line 45* elbow that I tapped into the block above the pan. I'm assuming this should be capped ASAP no?

Just cap the fitting with a plug.

Originally posted by Stazi:
Just cap the fitting with a plug.

The return coupler has been capped with a 5/8" vacuum cap. The car has about 14 miles on it since it started and would have much more except I have quite a few seperate problems.

1) After being run past 1st gear, the car idles at 2,500+ RPMs ... that and it mooses ... sure sing of a dead IAC. I have a replacement IAC, but it has been too hot lately to work on the car.

2) There is a strang clunking noise from the driver's side front suspension. The lower ball joint is shot with a completely split to hell boot and completely void of grease. I have replacement joints & an air chisel, but again, I need to find the time. I also have front sway bar end links as well as those boots are torn to [censored] as well.

3) The battery is completely shot ... been completely dead the last two times I have gone to start it after sitting for 1+ day. Hopefully it's just the battery and not a wiring issue. I suspect a wiring issue because I noticed my break lights where on when I last turned the car off. I proceeded to open the door, mash the brake and then gently close the door. If I slammed the door, the brake lights would come on again.

So, Once I get the car sorted, I can begin driving her on a regular basis and break her in properly. So far, I haven't surpassed 1/2 throttle or 5,000 RPMs, but she is damn strong and not a single sign of any mechanical issues in the driveline.

I will post an update with pictures after overhauling the front suspension. I just hope it's not the struts or strut caps ... last thing I need is to drop more money into this car.

First, let me start with some older pictures of the install from where I left off. I was fitting the wiring harness to fan assembly on the radiator and noticed some badly exposed wire. I dug deeper to find this:

I stripped all the wires as far back as I could go before they stopped falling apart in my hands and rewrapped them in electrical tap.

I also took this picture to illustrate the differences between the two harnesses ... top picture is of the 99 Cougar harness on the fan assembly and the lower picture is of the 98 SVT Contour harness. The connectors to the main harness are in completely different spots:

Finally, Someone please confirm ... I think I have my tubing backwards here ... the line from the water pump side is on the bottom and I THINK it is supposed to be on the top.

OK, back to today's discoveries. I found the cause of some problems while others have me stumped.

First, the IAC was replaced and the moosing has stopped, but the idle is still above 1,500 ... I would suspect a leak, but I would definitely be running lean and I don't have a CEL. So, I'm suspecting the Throttle Body is actually cracked open slightly. Anyone have a stock SVT unit they want to loan me?

Anyways, I got the car running by replacing the battery. Upon hooking up the battery, I noticed that my tail lights where once again on. So, I got under the dash and discovered that the brake light sensor was loose and would not tighten. Here it is:

I suspect this combined with the blown main harness fuse link between the alternator and battery was the cause the drained battery problem. It was drained for so long while I was working on the car that it simply can no longer hold the charge. My new red top Optima should take care of energy requirements. I had to remove the brake sensor in order to avoid the problem from re-occurring.

So, IAC and battery taken care of, I was back up front to find the clunking. Think I found it, along with a nice surprise ... make that two surprises!

First, I think the clunking was indeed the front sway bar end link. I found the top nut loose and the bracket that holds the brake line in please could be moved by hand. Any sway bar movement would cause the threaded rod portion that goes through the bracket to change pitch and in turn would shift the bracket and cause the clunk. New end link added and problem solved.

Now for my two surprises:

1) Found the ABS Sensor wiring was hanging down and got rubbed clean and nearly sheared between the tire and strut perch ... frayed pretty damn good. Please excuse the blurry picture ... you get the idea.

2) This combined with the brake light switch issue are going to ensure that the car doesn't move till they are fixed. Drum roll please ... front LCA attachment bolt is rubbing on the transmission ... anyone else have this problem

I'm guessing it's a worn mount OR I didn't properly preload the mounts before dropping the full weight of the trans/engine on them.

Thoughts? Comments? Suggestions?

Actually, I think the problem could be easily solved by simply unbolting the nut and reversing the bolt/nut so that the nut attaches from the bottom. This would place the bolt head at the top and it isn't nearly as tall as the end of the bolt & nut ... thoughts?

the coolant tank lines are backwards, my car has the water pump one on top and the short one to the radiator on the bottom.

on the control arm bolt, it hits because it is upside down, turning it over to the proper position will solve it, or one of the roll restrictors could be worn

I was thinking the same thing on that mount. Flip it.

Originally posted by BrApple:
the coolant tank lines are backwards, my car has the water pump one on top and the short one to the radiator on the bottom.

on the control arm bolt, it hits because it is upside down, turning it over to the proper position will solve it, or one of the roll restrictors could be worn

or put to washers under the head of the bolt.
that will bring the end of th ebolt closer to the nut, but make sure there is at least one full thread showing above the nut.

Looking at the last picture I posted, you can tell that the other two bolts are facing down. God I love buying a used car!

You have to put them in that way when you replace the LCA's. He needed to drop the subframe to have them the correct way.

As far as the TB, before you pull it, take the pcv port and plug it off at the manifold, then pinch off the IAC tube with a pair of needlenose pliers. If the idle still doesn't change, AND you've checked the other vacuum ports for leakage, then pull the TB.

Originally posted by todras:
You have to put them in that way when you replace the LCA's. He needed to drop the subframe to have them the correct way.

If I unbolt all the mounts and jack the engine/trans up from the bottom, do you think there is enough slack in the half-axles to allow me to fit the bolts down properly? Looks like it only needs to move towards the passenger's side about 2 inches. Can it be done without dropping the subframe?

I decided to repair everything today and since I replaced one side's sway bar endlink, I decided why not the other. Got that done in about 5 minutes. I then went to the driver's side to strip the frayed wires and rewrap them in quality electrical tape. Again, this only took about 5 minutes and I was ready to attack the LCA bolts. Based on advice of Dane150 (NECO member), I decided to remove the center bolts from the front & rear roll restrictors and drop only the front two bolts of the subframe and simply drop the front about 5 inches. So, I remove the driver's side front subframe bolt about 5 turns and decided to go to the passenger's side to allow the front to drop evenly. Here is what I found:

The condition of the car never ceases to amaze me! The bolt was completely missing

Needless to say, I think the clunking was more than just a sway bar end link being loose

... DAMN GOOD THING I bought that other front subframe. The bolts that hold down the power steering rack are the same thread pitch and length ... THANK GOD!

Here is a picture of the finished product before rebolting the front back up. The entire process took maybe 35 minutes ... went a hell of a lot quicker than I thought it would.

Test drove the car after getting everything back together and WOW, this thing can really handle now! However, the CEL came on and the driver's door rattles when I close it, so back out I go ...

Still plodding along on that car, I admire your determination especially how far you've come.

Hopefully you'll keep it and drive it when you are done, at least for a while.

What kind of rattle are you getting in the door? Is it a metallic or more of a plastic type of rattle.

I had the foam that rests behind the windowpane (when its down) come loose from the door.

Door rattle was a 5" speaker, held in by one screw in the 6x9 slot ... this guy deserves to has his ass kicked hard!

maybe the guy was a moron, but I hoped you learned to have a car looked at or look at it yourself before buying it.

I have been reading up on this problem and it seems that it's the "clock spring" or whatever it's called. Basically, the light flashes 3 times, pauses and then flashes 2 times. According to the FAQ on the main site:

32=Driver Side Air Bag Circuit High Resistance or Open

Anyone have any ideas or links to threads that would help? I have searched as I said before, but nobody in the two threads I read really nailed it down. Your help is greatly appreciated!

Originally posted by stilov:
maybe the guy was a moron, but I hoped you learned to have a car looked at or look at it yourself before buying it.

No [censored]!

Originally posted by fastcougar:
I have been reading up on this problem and it seems that it's the "clock spring" or whatever it's called. Basically, the light flashes 3 times, pauses and then flashes 2 times. According to the FAQ on the main site:

32=Driver Side Air Bag Circuit High Resistance or Open

Anyone have any ideas or links to threads that would help? I have searched as I said before, but nobody in the two threads I read really nailed it down. Your help is greatly appreciated!

How about this thread?
http://www.contour.org/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=trouble&Number=1242694&page=&view=&sb=5&o=&fpart=all&vc=1

Originally posted by Tony2005:

Originally posted by fastcougar:
I have been reading up on this problem and it seems that it's the "clock spring" or whatever it's called. Basically, the light flashes 3 times, pauses and then flashes 2 times. According to the FAQ on the main site:

32=Driver Side Air Bag Circuit High Resistance or Open

Anyone have any ideas or links to threads that would help? I have searched as I said before, but nobody in the two threads I read really nailed it down. Your help is greatly appreciated!

How about this thread?
http://www.contour.org/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=trouble&Number=1242694&page=&view=&sb=5&o=&fpart=all&vc=1

Thank you!

CEL was for excessive throttle angle. I replaced the TPS sensor on the TB because the plug end for the one on the car was shattered and had RTV on it to keep it together

So, looks like I didn't put the new sensor on correctly or something because with the car off, it read 5.5% and doesn't respond to throttle input at all. It just stays right at 5.5% when the car is turned on and idles and if I blip the throttle to say 25% input, it doesn't move. I took the sensor off a stock Cougar throttle body that has been collecting dust. Can this be salvaged (reinstalled properly), or does it sound like a faulty sensor?

the stock cougar TPS and the SVT TPS are two completely different animals.
I am pretty sure about this, assuming the Kitty's TPS is the same as a non-SVT contour.
they rotate in different directions.

there was a long thread about this in troubleshooting or maintenance.

Yep SVT's TPS rotate the opposite directio to all other CDW-27 TPS's. You need either a SVT TPS or one from a Mustange GT will work too.

Originally posted by Stazi:
Yep SVT's TPS rotate the opposite directio to all other CDW-27 TPS's. You need either a SVT TPS or one from a Mustange GT will work too.

Correct. And MAKE SURE you install it correctly, or you'll have a nice broken TPS in your hands when you're done. Brapple has a nice write-up on it in the Duratec Maintenance forum, with pictures. It'll show how you need to put the TPS on slightly turned, and then turn it clockwise to its resting position(SVT only), then bolt it down. If not done this way, it'll break the innards of the TPS.

Mark

Originally posted by fastcougar:
I have been reading up on this problem and it seems that it's the "clock spring" or whatever it's called. Basically, the light flashes 3 times, pauses and then flashes 2 times. According to the FAQ on the main site:

32=Driver Side Air Bag Circuit High Resistance or Open

Anyone have any ideas or links to threads that would help? I have searched as I said before, but nobody in the two threads I read really nailed it down. Your help is greatly appreciated!

Yeah, I have an idea.
I bet either you or He turned the steering wheel one too many times when the rack and pinion was undone and the contacts are probably broke in the steering wheel. Either that or it was turned off center one revolution too far when reassembled so it broke later.

There is an assembly in the steering wheel with a long ribbon cable that connects to the airbag and cruise circuits, and allows contact even though the wheel turns. If the wheel is turned too far, say three revolutions when the rack&pinion is undone, then it will pull the ribbon cable out of its contacts and then voila, no cruise and no airbag.

It is a gray, round plastic assembly that mounts over the steering shaft that you can see as soon as the wheel is pulled.

**edit** you know I was reading the list but never saw the title of your post until I hit the post button. Now I read that the cruise is gone too, and I'm positive you broke it.

Oh, and whats my prize for being right on this one?

Yep. Search clock spring. Plenty of info.

Well, the steering wheel is cocked over to one side about 90 degrees. So, should I get the alignment done first AND THEN replace the clockspring ... that seems like the most logical approach.

90! You sure the steering shaft splines didn't pop out and it was put together misaligned? If you get an alignment and the wheel is still off I guess you know if that's the problem or not.

90 degrees is a bit of an exageration but at least 45 degrees.

Could anything else be wrong with this piece of skata?

Originally posted by Stazi:
Could anything else be wrong with this piece of skata?

The sunroof doesn't open because of the melted gear issue ... btw, I love the greek references!

Originally posted by Stazi:
Could anything else be wrong with this piece of skata?

BTW, I have dubbed this "Project Skatuli"

Originally posted by fastcougar:

Originally posted by Stazi:
Could anything else be wrong with this piece of skata?

BTW, I have dubbed this "Project Skatuli"

More like Project Kolopetho!

I just got off the phone with Bill Jenkins ... have a new clockspring and SVT throttle body on order. I already have a new SVT throttle bracket and throttle cable.

Does anyone on here have an SVT goose neck (intake accordian tube) that they could sell me cheap?

Yup! Call me.

Too bad, I could have sold you the SVT TB, accordion, airbox, MAF housing (minus the electronics), all slightly used.

Originally posted by warmonger:
Too bad, I could have sold you the SVT TB, accordion, airbox, MAF housing (minus the electronics), all slightly used.

When it comes to you and I, our timing seems to be off by about 1-2 months

Tom, doesn't seem too good with the rythm method either.

Originally posted by Stazi:
Tom, doesn't seem too good with the rythm method either.

Ouch

<looks towards the sky for another blindside>
I think that was a knockdown! lol

Yeah, 4 kids later and you could say that I need to work on it...of course that implies more practice....

OK, this past weekend, besides finding out about the TPS, I decided to do a few more things right that this bonehead did wrong! First off, I can't help but kick myself for not taking a "before" picture. That being said, the battery in the trunk was completely unsecured and when I would take a turn, the battery would fall over. That needed to be rectified and ASAP. So, while I was at it, why not do it right and move the battery to the passenger's side of the trunk

basically, just jacked up the passengers side ... I love the look of a car with one side jacked up ... reminds me of schekane (spelling?) bashing road course racing

Apparently this guy just couldn't figure out what the hell he wanted to do ... count the holes ... I count 3 and only 1 has the positive line in it with no grommet

Time to drill a hole in the right place. I chose this location because I have done so 3 times in the past. My previous battery relocation AND 2 ZEX kit installs.

You start by finding the hole in the rear frame rail and then using a very long punch, knock a mark and then go back into the trunk and drill it out.

Looking up again after drilling it out

Then simply mount the battery and start to run the lines. Bear in mind that I still need to trim the zip tie excess. I also plan on running an additional grounding strap under the car from the bolt to the rear sub-frame

Under and around the rear suspension we go.

follow the rear parking brake cable and the divert over to the drip rail and hug the frame rail.

Time to cut across the engine bay to get to the other side.

Hard to see, but roughly half-way there ... notice the shifter cable sheathing on the left.

Find the stearing rack/shaft and start to fish it up

So it doesn't flop around down there and get tangled, reach really far down there and tie it off to a brake hardline or two just next to the brake booster.

Finally, run it behind the booster and to your junction ... nothing to it!

Hey, I like how you did it clean, but you probably should know that the hole you chose is for the alignment pins when installing the subframe. I bet they only use them for initial alignment during assembly of the car...but hey I thought I'd point that at.

Also, I think running the line down the drivers side into the trunk minimizes the amount of underbody exposure and of course running it near something protected is good.
I ended up running twin half size Gell cells in the trunk of my SVT and hiding them behind the trunk liner behind each wheel well. THe main line came in the trunk on the left then both batteries were separately grounded and wired in parallel.
I never got around to it but a good 100amp circuit breaker right in the trunk and one at the front by the strut tower is recommended in case of any shorts.

Trevor looks good. However for safe measures I would put that black sheathing you can get from audio stores around it. Its little protection but it goes a long way.

Originally posted by fastcougar:
Does anyone on here have an SVT goose neck (intake accordian tube) that they could sell me cheap?

DanG can't find his ... anyone?

Bueller?
Bueller?
Bueller?

Originally posted by fastcougar:

Originally posted by fastcougar:
Does anyone on here have an SVT goose neck (intake accordian tube) that they could sell me cheap?

DanG can't find his ... anyone?

Bueller?
Bueller?
Bueller?

I still have everything I said above, but I may not sell it to you now.....

specially since you always think of me last. Heh heh heh

Originally posted by warmonger:
Too bad, I could have sold you the SVT TB, accordion, airbox, MAF housing (minus the electronics), all slightly used.

I'm sorry, I didn't realize that you where replying to DanG. Read that from my point of view if you hadn't read Dan's post ... sound like "you COULD have", but no longer have it (i.e. sold your car).

I'll take everything except the TB (ordered new from Bill J) ... where do I send PayPal and how quickly can you ship?

Originally posted by fastcougar:

I'll take everything except the TB

I'll take the TB...PM sent.

Originally posted by fastcougar:

Originally posted by warmonger:
Too bad, I could have sold you the SVT TB, accordion, airbox, MAF housing (minus the electronics), all slightly used.

I'm sorry, I didn't realize that you where replying to DanG. Read that from my point of view if you hadn't read Dan's post ... sound like "you COULD have", but no longer have it (i.e. sold your car).

I'll take everything except the TB (ordered new from Bill J) ... where do I send PayPal and how quickly can you ship?

Okay, I made a liar out of myself. I'm sorry but I can't seem to find the airbox and accordion. I know I had it before the movers packed us up and moved here last year.

But sorry.

I only have the TB, a couple of MAF-Filter adapters and some other goodies like injectors and stuff.

I even have a 3" aluminum adapter with injector mounting bosses for two external injectors. I had it designed to add extra fuel with some simple electronics and a tap on the fuel rail. It added fuel based on a fixed throttle position and then a potentiometer adjusts the duty cycle of the two injectors. So basically you step on the pedal and at whatever position you set it begins to add fuel through the two injectors at whatever duty cycle. Usefull on older systems, for nitrous, or for use with an emanage.

I have my stock SVT accordian tube. And I know where it is!

PM me if you're interested.

Mark

Originally posted by Y2KSVT:
I have my stock SVT accordian tube. And I know where it is!

Originally posted by DanG:

Originally posted by Y2KSVT:
I have my stock SVT accordian tube. And I know where it is!

I've got three of them laying around. And I know where they are!

Ive got a spare air box for the filter. Let me know if you need that.

You all blow. I've been so busy here that I don't remember what the hell I got anymore.

Plus I have too much chit!
I still got an almost new set of escape cams/timing components, 3L escape upper and lower intake, valve covers, wiring harness, white contour power mirror, window motor and various door components, the very usable escape timing cover, etc. lol

I've hauled this stuff around but its not leaving this place with me when I move.

Well, gooseneck/acordian is on it's way thanks to Y2KSVT. Today was father's day, so I didn't work on the car but for 30 minutes ... I can honestly say it will now pass a State Inspection! Replaced the clockspring and now the airbag light is no longer flashing and I have a working horn ... cruise control has yet to be verified.

Once I sort the idle issue (replace TB) and the car is running 100%, I plan on titling the car in my state so I can actaully break her in legally. This week I plan on cleaning the garage and getting the band saw assembled so that I can begin on finishing the turbo system.

Quick update: Called Bill Jenkins to ask where my TB was and he said it wasn't on the invoice for some odd reason thus it didn't ship. Luckily he had one in stock (probably the one I ordered) and is overnighting free of charge ... I love Bill's customer service! So, this weekend I plan on installing the Throttle Body, passenger's side outer tie rod end, after market antenna & patching the inner cv boots with bicycle tube patch (I'll let you know how that goes): Read about it here. I'm also going to work on a new trunk liner idea that I have and will share in this thread if it works out.

OH MY GOD ... the car is a beast! I must admit, 65 miles and I have already done a few WOT runs. I know it's not advised with a new clutch, but I would rather break in the engine hard and there is no gentle way to do that. Sorry if this comes as a shocker to some thinking that I'm abusing the car, but I have always subscribed to the break in hard and it will run hard theory.

Got the TB from Bill J today and just fitted it to the car ... car idles smoothly at 750 RPM, but is a little surgey after being run. I need to reset the battery but was too impatient tonight as I wanted to have it installed and run the car around the block before it got too dark. After breakin, it's off to the dyno

Found my SVT gooseneck tonight...

Glad to hear she's runnin'...

Originally posted by DanG:
Found my SVT gooseneck tonight...

Glad to hear she's runnin'...

... No, wait ...

Originally posted by fastcougar:
OH MY GOD ... the car is a beast! I must admit, 65 miles and I have already done a few WOT runs. I know it's not advised with a new clutch, but I would rather break in the engine hard and there is no gentle way to do that.

Just do runs in gear. Don't shift at redline. Run it to redline and then bring it down before shifting.

I have been doing just that ... partial throttle till around 4K RPM, then lean in hard to the floor until redline. Just before the limiter, I lift to half throttle and back off to about 5.5K RPM and then shift by fully releasing throttle, pause slightly and then shift.

Title says it all. $55 shipped for a cruise cam camera mount has just been purcahsed. So, I hope to get some sweet video next weekend

Here is the link Cruise Cam

Just my luck with this car I guess.

My patches didn't hold on the half axles, so I ordered some new ones. They arrived yesterday, but tonight was my first chance of getting them opened to inspect.

First off, one of the axles is the wrong one ... they shipped FD-8051A instead of FD-8054A

Then, when I started to unpack them, I saw this and thought "great, I know this can't be good"

Looks like it was dropped hard enough to disconnect the inner CV band ... entire order is being returned

that sucks

I ordered mine from that place and everything wrked out okay.

Originally posted by stilov:
I ordered mine from that place and everything wrked out okay.

Hopefully the guy get's back to me soon. If not, I'm going to call. Here is the email I sent him and the ONLY solution I could come up with that would allow me to swap in new half-axles this weekend IF he has the right one's in stock.

Quote:

I have a problem with my order ... actually, two problems!

1) One of the axles arrived damaged. Please see attached pictures. Upon unwrapping the box from it's platic, I noticed the box was discolored and oil saturated. I opened it to find that one of the retaining bands around the inner CV joint had come unbanded, causing the axle to loose grease. The package is completely untampered and is still in the factory sealed wrap. The damaged axle is FD-8052A

2) I have a 1998 SVT Contour (2.5L engine/5-speed trans) with ABS. I placed my order accordingly and should have gotten FD-8054A & FD-8052A. Instead, I got FD-8051A & FD-8052A ... the wrong axle was sent.

So, I need to return both axles for an immediate exchange. I was hoping to do the work this weekend, but now it must be postponed another week, unless you can ship them out expidited today. I work for a logistics company and could return the incorrect/broken axles on Friday. What is the best way to remedy this situation? I was thinking it would work best/fastest if I where to buy the FD-8052A & FD-8054A today via phone (so you know who I am) and you could ship them out immediately with overnight shipping (if they are in stock). Then credit my card back the full amount of my second order when the first order of the wrong/broken axle arrive. Sound doable?

Please let me know how to proceed as soon as possible.

Deer in the road suck!

http://www.newcougar.org/gallery/browseimages.php?c=28

I'm done with the car ... insurance will handle it now. Rolled it once, ended up wheels down, not a scratch on me ... THANK GOD! Seat belts save lives!

I'm going to have to link to the images directly since you need a login to view closeups of the gallery and not everyone who views this thread will have login on NECO.

OMG, I hope you are ok and nobody was injured. I swear TRed is a cursed colour. Hope everything works out for you.

Aaron

absolutely insane. glad you're ok .

I'm sorry to see that, but I am so thankful that I was ABLE to see that. It would have been just as easy for you to not have made it through that one!

Thank God you are okay! Take some time to handle things, and keep us posted. Be thankful you are alive to be upset!

All i can say is damn...you have bad luck...or good luck depending on how you look at it. Anyways atleaST you still have a cougar shell to swap everything into and you have a good excuse to keep a better looking 2 door car. Glad to hear ya made it out allright and the tour did its job

Just a quick explinations ... from my NECO post:

Quote:

Not a scratch on me ... small piece of glass grazed my forhead in one small spot, but it clotted up and isn't even noticable now ... shed rouhgly 4 drops of blood. I feel blessed to be alive!

Taking a corner too fast, spot a deer and swerve to miss him (not sure if he was on the shoulder on in the road ... it all happened too quickly). The road has gravel on it here and there on the asphalt in spots and It must have caused my back end to start coming out. Turned hard right, but got no feedback, so I put "both feet in" (brake & clutch) and held on for the ride.

Was out of the car within 15 seconds after a few choice words!

Basically, I was on marbles.

Glad you are okay and great to know you are safe in an SVT even through a rollover!

However, I hate to see SVTs end up like that!

Originally posted by Danef150:
All i can say is damn...you have bad luck...or good luck depending on how you look at it. Anyways atleaST you still have a cougar shell to swap everything into and you have a good excuse to keep a better looking 2 door car. Glad to hear ya made it out allright and the tour did its job

Loser! The cougar in no way looks better than an SVT!

j/k

They both look good but the Coug does not look better. Unless you trick them out the Cougs look like Chick cars to me where the SVT looks like a sporty family car.

OMG! That is terrible

I'm glad you're alright.

Originally posted by Danef150:
All i can say is damn...you have bad luck...or good luck depending on how you look at it. Anyways atleaST you still have a cougar shell to swap everything into and you have a good excuse to keep a better looking 2 door car. Glad to hear ya made it out allright and the tour did its job

Better looking? Pshhhhh.

Originally posted by warmonger:
Glad you are okay and great to know you are safe in an SVT even through a rollover!

I have to say i've seen some VERY badly damaged contours with walk-away occupants.....damn safe cars IMO, saved two lives in my car already.

I'm very sorry to hear about this. I, as well as many others, know all to well what it's like to put a lot of time/money and heart into a car and ahve something like this happen. It seems lately out platform is almost cursed....

Swazo...dead
SVT SNOB...dead
Fast cougar...dead

Almost makes me scared to re-build BLKOUT2 as well as building the race car this winter......

WOW!!!! good to know you came out of that alive!!!! sorry to hear that all the hard work on your car has been lost:( at least you got to enjoy it for a little while.

Originally posted by Pole120:

Originally posted by warmonger:
Glad you are okay and great to know you are safe in an SVT even through a rollover!

I have to say i've seen some VERY badly damaged contours with walk-away occupants.....damn safe cars IMO, saved two lives in my car already.

I'm very sorry to hear about this. I, as well as many others, know all to well what it's like to put a lot of time/money and heart into a car and ahve something like this happen. It seems lately out platform is almost cursed....

(car/engine projects)
Swazo...dead
SVT SNOB...dead
Fast cougar...dead
Instigator...dead

Almost makes me scared to re-build BLKOUT2 as well as building the race car this winter......

Fixed. That way people don't think they ACTUALLY died

Man, that's too bad. I really get scared to drive my car sometimes. No matter how safe you are, something can always happen out of nowhere.

I think these cars are very very safe cars.

I took a major impact to the rear and sandwiched my car into another car. $6k in damage but not one person was injured at all. They are built very solid.

Glad your ok though. That's the most important part.

Sorry to hear that. Where did this happened?

European roots of the car coming out.Glad to see you're ok.BTW CSVT>coug

Dang man, what a way to go out in style! I feel your pain. As far as the deer goes, you're almost always better off to hit it even though the natural reaction is to swerve.

Rick

Originally posted by Tony2005:
Sorry to hear that. Where did this happened?

Backside of my neighborhood, which is still under development. Many of my neighbors came to see if I was OK ... I was so embarrassed!

After making the swerve to avoid the deer, which was basically mid apex of the turn, I remember feeling the back end start coming around slightly. I started to turn the wheel to the right and I went to hit the brakes, but by then, I was sliding sideways and in the gravel on the side of the road. I put both feet in (clutch & brake) and just tensed up because I knew something bad was about to happen.

I'm damn lucky I missed the fire hydrant! Looking at the pictures, I think I missed it by mere inches, if not fractions of an inch! I still did not have the front bumper on the car ... if I did, the hydrant would have taken it clean off.

Originally posted by warmonger:
Loser! The cougar in no way looks better than an SVT!

j/k

They both look good but the Coug does not look better. Unless you trick them out the Cougs look like Chick cars to me where the SVT looks like a sporty family car.

I like both cars really. I like the way the SVT's look with just some FSVT wheels and lowered a little bit. I like the way SOME cougars look fixed up(coughcough mine

)

I do not like the look of a stock coug' tho...they really do kinda look like a chicks car lol

Trevor...was there really a deer?

Originally posted by 99cougar:
Trevor...was there really a deer?

Sure was!

Originally posted by fastcougar:

Originally posted by 99cougar:
Trevor...was there really a deer?

Sure was!

I was just kidding man...your lucky...from the pics it could have been much worse.

Are you still going to be building up the cougar?

That's the plan for now ... I might buy back the Contour and then go to the collision center where it currently is and strip out the engine/trans ... I need to see it up close and get the front end off the ground and on jack stands to determine if I want to buy it back just to get the engine/trans back. I'm going through receipts now trying to total everything I have done to the car for the last 3 months in case my insurance will factor that into the appraisal.

Wow, I'm sorry to see that Trevor. And to think, you just got that nice, glossy accordian tube put on!

Glad to see you made it out OK as well!

Mark

Oh man thats cracked out for sure! Poor Contour as well, but at least your typing as you say. Damn thats one heck of a draping. Speaking of Cougar, my battery drained yesterday, it was raining, ugly weather, my friend was going to boost me with his cougar, and of course, the latch to open the hood broke off and I was screwed. Good ol cougar.

Holy chit! One day complaining about bad axles, the next this crap happens! My my how quickly things can change!

Glad you are OK. You have not had one ounce of good luck with this car.

The insurance appraiser will be looking at the car on Monday ... no doubt it's totaled. Talked to the place where I had it towed and they will tow it to a junkyard about 4 miles from my house for $50. There I will be pulling the engine/trans. It will be going into the Cougar soon after to finish break in on the clutch. Wife and I have talked it over extensively ... no more cars to drop this engine/trans into ... the Cougar will be it for this engine/trans. After breakin/dyno/turbo kit mockup, the engine/trans will be pulled and sold as a complete unit.

i wouldn't risk bringing it to a junkyard to strip it.
unless your ins company is making you junk it.
can't you buy it back, have it towed to your house, strip it, then send it off to the junkyard?

I am buying it back, but can't have it in my driveway. I have already talked to the junkyard ... nothing to worry about there.

well, thats good.

Holy crap, this sucks! At the very least, I'm glad you're ok. I hope th transplant into the Cougar goes well.

Originally posted by warmonger:

Originally posted by Pole120:

Originally posted by warmonger:
Glad you are okay and great to know you are safe in an SVT even through a rollover!

I have to say i've seen some VERY badly damaged contours with walk-away occupants.....damn safe cars IMO, saved two lives in my car already.

I'm very sorry to hear about this. I, as well as many others, know all to well what it's like to put a lot of time/money and heart into a car and ahve something like this happen. It seems lately out platform is almost cursed....

(car/engine projects)
Swazo...dead
SVT SNOB...dead
Fast cougar...dead
Instigator...dead

Almost makes me scared to re-build BLKOUT2 as well as building the race car this winter......

Fixed. That way people don't think they ACTUALLY died

A part of me did

Just got the phone with my insurance company ... fairly good news!

Car valued: $6780.15
Deductable: - $250.00
Buy Back: - $206.51

Check to me: $6,312.82 AND I get the car (pull engine/trans/interior).

So, let the vulchures swarm in ... who needs what that can be scrapped from the interior of the car?

Are you sure they didn't forget a 0 somewhere in that buyback? I got a quote of $4Kish for my car buyback when I rolled it. Granted it was just over a year old at that point, but still.

Rick

No mistake ... car is 8 years old & totaled

Wow you lucked out. Normally they look for the cheapest car like the one that is totalled and give you less than that. I'm sure they could find a SVT contour for less than 5k.

It pays to have a great insurance company (USAA)!

Ill second you're thought on great insurance companies!

Thats how I got 9 grand for my 99' with 46k miles last year when she was totalled

. You have to have agents that work FOR you!!

Glad you got everything squared away!

Damn, if USAA is paying out like that I may go contour deer huntin' myself!

Kidding, of course

Originally posted by fastcougar:
Just got the phone with my insurance company ... fairly good news!

Car valued: $6780.15
Deductable: - $250.00
Buy Back: - $206.51
Check to me: $6,312.82 AND I get the car (pull engine/trans/interior).

So, let the vulchures swarm in ... who needs what that can be scrapped from the interior of the car?

motor was running good right?

how much??

Someone on NECO has beat you to it ... coming up and I will be pulling his engine from one Cougar, placing it in another Cougar and then swapping in my setup into the 1st Cougar. Double swap weekend

If this deal falls through, here is the price and list of options on the engine/trans:

02 Escape 3L Oval Port
- Block R&R
-- reringed
-- cylinders rehoned
-- Clevite77 main & rod bearings added
-- all new TTY bolts on bottom end
- SVT Cams
- All new timing gear (chains/guide/adjusters ... everything behind the timing cover)
- All new gaskets
- Heads R&R with 3 angle valve job
-- All new valve stem guides
-- All new retainers & keepers
- Heads port matched to 2.5L LIM
- New SVT Throttle Body
- New IACV
- New SVT flywheel
- New SPEC Stage III clutch
- Grand Total: $2,505.41

This is a stock CR 3L, running 10:1 CR. I didn't do any chamber work on the heads because I know with proper tuning, this engine could hold 12+psi of boost and put down high 300's in the hp/tq department.

HMS Modified Transmission
- Slick Shift Kit (roller bearing shift forks)
- Keyed Tower Mod (never worry about breaking shifter bolt again!)
- New blockers on 2nd, 3rd & 4th gears
- Torsen T2 Diff fitted
- New OEM TOB/Slave Cylinder
- Total Cost Parts & Labor: $1,163.04
- Torsen Cost: $548.99
- Grand Total: $1,712.03

Combined Total: $4217.44

I hope to be pulling the engine/trans this weekend!

That is an awesome setup. It looks very exciting.

Ran hard enough to roll the car

wait...wasnt there a turbo on that motor?

No, I am building a turbo kit ... which has been put on hold until I can get the "race" block/trans into the Cougar.

I'm waiting for the turbo kit

Want one in the mondeo

Would be the first v6 turbo in norway

Is it Kenny who is buying the drive train? I know he expressed interest when you posted the news up on newcougar.

If you sold that package for four grand then you made out pretty well after this accident.

Originally posted by j99coug:
Is it Kenny who is buying the drive train? I know he expressed interest when you posted the news up on newcougar.

If you sold that package for four grand then you made out pretty well after this accident.

Until the deal is finalized, I will not say who it is ... if they wish to comment, they can feel free to do so.

Price was $4,500 installed or shipped. I need to get some sleep ... tow truck driver will be dropping off the car around 8AM

Originally posted by fastcougar:

Originally posted by j99coug:
Is it Kenny who is buying the drive train? I know he expressed interest when you posted the news up on newcougar.

If you sold that package for four grand then you made out pretty well after this accident.

Until the deal is finalized, I will not say who it is ... if they wish to comment, they can feel free to do so.

Price was $4,500 installed or shipped. I need to get some sleep ... tow truck driver will be dropping off the car around 8AM

lol, like 8am is soooo early!

Originally posted by warmonger:
lol, like 8am is soooo early!

It is when you go to bed at 3AM

OK, got the front window knocked out and vacuumed the front seats/carpets very well to get up all the large glass so that I could start the car. Inertia switch NEVER tripped ... the button was fine. Hooked up the battery and she started right up no problem. I had the front end off the ground and rowed through the gears. Trans is fine, but there is definitely something wrong with the axles/hubs ... even off the ground she wobbled pretty good.

Here is a link to the damage overview video:
Right Click ... Save As
Ignore the "whole front suspension" comment ... I was a little tired when I filmed this and wasn't thinking straight.

Here is a link to the engine running:
Right Click ... Save As

Well, I need to take a shower and get to bed before 2AM so I can get up at 6:30 and get started on pulling the driveline and stripping the interior.

I'll post pictures tomorrow night.

Ouch. Goodluck with all the work ahead. Thanks for the videos!

What a demon seed!!!

Engine and most of the front end components are on the garage floor. I'm taking a break for about an hour and refueling my body! I sweat EVERY easily, so I had to work slow and take my time and keep taking breaks to drink water and wipe off ... started at 8AM, took a break for coffee & dohnut at 10, started again at 11 and took another break at 1 ... finished at 2:30.

The ONLY problem that I see is a small oil leak at the pan gasket on the right rear ... that's where it hit hardest before rolling ... probably loosend the bolts. I will retorque and clean everything up tomorrow. The rest of today will be pulling the A/C system, heater core, ABS box & lines, Break booster & pedal set ... the works!

Tomorrow I will clean everything and inventory it so that I can have pictures for the classifieds section.

Cheers!

Well, this thread really has turned into my own personal blog as of late. Finally some closure on this damned evil car ... it was towed Monday morning by a local salvage yard. I wasn't there to see it or take pictures as I was on a train heading to NYC.

From NYC, I caught the LIRR to Huntington and picked up my wife's new (to her) 02 Mountaineer. Shameless plug: the 97 Explorer that this Mounty is replacing is for sale ... click the link in the signature for more details.

So, until development continues, keep your eyes on the classifieds section as I have quite a few parts for sale ranging from the clock spring (brand new ... only 10-15 miles on it before rolling the car), to a front bumper (never on the car) with a Mirko splitter attached (splitter is cracked like most, but repairable).

I hope to pick this thread back up in about a month or two after I have sold the engine/trans and installed it for the new owner. In the meantime, I'm going back to the basics and building up my race block for a few hours each night when I feel like it.

Last pictures that where taken of the car before it was towed the next day:

I always see "wash me" finger written into dirty cars ... my take on it with a philips head screw driver

At this point, it doubled nicely as a trash dump

Well, this thread started with my problems with this car and it will end with it's departure. This will be my final post in this thread. When turbo kit development resumes, I will start a new thread to document that process. My this thread die in peace

Amen!

bump

[sorry I couldnt resist]