A few turbo questions (I have searched)

Contour Enthusiasts Group Archives

Alright, I get the joy of paying off my car soon and a turbo is in my near future. My 2.5 seems to be holding up really well, no odd noises or smoking or anything, but it is 105K miles old. Same with the transmission. Now I have been trying to get bits and pieces here and there but I am having a hard time trying to decide what I need to do to get the horsepower I would like which is the 250-300 WHP range. I pretty much have three questions:

One: the two ADC kits are getting kind of pricy, but is it worth it/pretty cost effective. One of my [flamesuit] Honda [/flamesuit] friends that is actually quite smart when it comes to turbocharging an engine says that seems high, and to buy the headers and downpipe seperately, then find and purchase the rest elsewhere.

Two: what do I HAVE to do to my transmission and engine if anything to get it ready for that HP? I would like to leave everything in the car if possible but if something has to be done (new diff.), it has to be done.

Third: which ADC kit is better for that HP? I was paying attention to a N2O post not too far from this one and this is pretty much where the last conversation of the ADC turbo setups left off:

Originally posted by 99cougar:

Originally posted by DemonSVT:

Originally posted by KingpinSVT:
They have gone up in price, T28- $5,500, T3T4E- $6,000. Check arizonadynochip.com

The odd part about that is that the T28 costs twice what a T3/4 does???

i was thinkin the same thing lol. maybe the price is for the bigger injector/intercooler and stuff like that

Originally posted by 99cougar:

Originally posted by warmonger:
Is the T3/4 using the updated stage 3,4,5 system with water cooling and ball bearings?
They have retrofitted their later technology into new releases of their T3/4 turbos so they aren't too shabby. Maybe they are using a good one and of course the intercooler setup is probably worth a few hundred more, and then labor increases. The kit has been out like 3 years now.

Maybe not. Maybe they just want to make more money.

okay so maybe it is a new "higher quality" T3/T4. that would explain some of it, and i know the bigger intercooler costs more.

lol...maybe they are trying to jack up prices that way they don't have to sell anymore of them....j/k...please don't stop making them

The headers and downpipe fabrication make up most of the cost of the kit. In fact I asked shawn at ADC and i think he told me 2200 for the headers and up pipe only.

Here I am Trolling again.

The hardest part of the kit is the Headers and piping. It is so tight in the bay that it is nearly impossible to fit all the piping in there. Keith's (ADC) kit is the way to go, as far as FI. You can try to do it yourself, but I warn you that it is not like doing a Honda with ample engine bay to work with. To quote Keith himself, "It is like trying to shove 10 pounds of [censored] in a 5 pound bag".

Good luck.

Unless you can bend pipe, weld, and tune yourself, you arent going to be able to build a homemade system that is significantly cheaper than the ADC kit. Also, with that much HP you will need a new clutch and LSD. If not right away then soon after.

Your friend with the Honduh is tainted by EVERYONE making turbo kits for his platform. Even still, a good widely available turbo for a Honda, Nissan, Acura, etc. is gonna set you back AT LEAST 3500

Factor in all the extras like having a dead platform, quality, tuning, etc. you get from ADC and they are more than justified in their price.

The guy that built Blackwidow's set-up had done plenty of Honda turbo pipes. Its a no brainer. After he was done with his SVT, he said he would never again make one for a Contour.

If you ever spend a significant amount of time looking at the bottom side of your engine you will know why the piping is worth so much

Take it from the OG's and learn before you bit off more than you can chew.
I have built an FI'd CSVT. I bought a Vortech kit, even though I am a personal friend of Keith's. I will tell you honestly that initial cost be damned, I should have Turbo'd. I had $45K+ into that car and traded it for less than 1/10 of that. The ADC Turbo guys are still there. Don't cut corners up front and you won't have to redo anything later.

No one with a hone-made kit, asid from Tom (warmonger) has come close to matching the ADC output numbers. Mind you Toms used bits and bobs form the development kit ADC first made, to fabricate his own kit, so you can see that ADC is the way to go here.

Tom is working on making a kit out of the Weapon R headers, but that's a ways off, and you STILL need to modify those headers to make it all work - so there's not cheapo "drop in" kit available out there.

Like Jason said, the Honda engine bay is so roomy that you can slap any crap together and it'll fit.

Finally you NEED to get a LSD either Quaife or Torsen and a upgraded clutch. The sotck stuff simply won't tkae the extra power and you ARE an idiot if you decide to boost the enigne and ignore the transmission. It's also a good idea to replace the 3rd gear synchro's and any othe rworn parts in there. Good luck getting the upgraded 3rd synchro's yourself though cos Terry bought up all the ones he could find in the US.

Isn't Tom driving around with the Weapon-R header, turbo setup? He's made stock manifolds and now Weapon-R headers work.

Mark

yes, he has them on, but is still far from offering it to the "market" yet.

Originally posted by Stazi:
No one with a hone-made kit, asid from Tom (warmonger) has come close to matching the ADC output numbers. Mind you Toms used bits and bobs form the development kit ADC first made, to fabricate his own kit, so you can see that ADC is the way to go here.

Well that's way off. My 1st kit did make clse to ADC and I didn't spend half as much as the ADC kit is. Just wait for my next set-up.

Originally posted by Stazi:
yes, he has them on, but is still far from offering it to the "market" yet.

Ooooooooh, I wasn't sure if that was what you were getting at. I didn't know he was planning on offering it to the public, or having it produced. It definitely gives those of us that have a lot of money into their headers a viable option that doesn't include selling at a loss, and buying ADC headers.

Mark

Originally posted by stilov:
Well that's way off. My 1st kit did make clse to ADC and I didn't spend half as much as the ADC kit is. Just wait for my next set-up.

What kind of power did you put down on the old setup? Any specs on the old turbo? And I guess I haven't seen what you have going on with the new setup. What are you shooting for, power-wise?

Mark

Well I have the record (confirmed by Keyser) for the 2.5L ADC standard GT-28 kit (and that's WITHOUT an I/C) at 295hp.

Originally posted by Stazi:
Well I have the record (confirmed by Keyser) for the 2.5L ADC standard GT-28 kit (and that's WITHOUT an I/C) at 295hp.

no timing advance either with the higher octane gas.

And alc. injection IIRC.

Originally posted by KingpinSVT:
And alc. injection IIRC.

Yes to make up for no intercooler - hardly the same, but better than nothing, no less.

Originally posted by Stazi:

Originally posted by KingpinSVT:
And alc. injection IIRC.

Yes to make up for no intercooler - hardly the same, but better than nothing, no less.

Yes I realize why its there

Why did you opt for no IC anyway? Cost?

Secondly, dont you usually use water, and added alcohol for the dyno? I thought the alcohol was just for special occasions, if you know what I mean

Blackwidow has been running water injection for a while now, I wonder if he has tried alcohol

Tons of the SHO guys are doing water injection on the S/C setups. They are well over 300whp using it as well.

Originally posted by 98_HO_Contour:
Third: which ADC kit is better for that HP? I was paying attention to a N2O post not too far from this one and this is pretty much where the last conversation of the ADC turbo setups left off:

Originally posted by 99cougar:

Originally posted by DemonSVT:

Originally posted by KingpinSVT:
They have gone up in price, T28- $5,500, T3T4E- $6,000. Check arizonadynochip.com

The odd part about that is that the T28 costs twice what a T3/4 does???

i was thinkin the same thing lol. maybe the price is for the bigger injector/intercooler and stuff like that

Originally posted by 99cougar:

Originally posted by warmonger:
Is the T3/4 using the updated stage 3,4,5 system with water cooling and ball bearings?
They have retrofitted their later technology into new releases of their T3/4 turbos so they aren't too shabby. Maybe they are using a good one and of course the intercooler setup is probably worth a few hundred more, and then labor increases. The kit has been out like 3 years now.

Maybe not. Maybe they just want to make more money.

okay so maybe it is a new "higher quality" T3/T4. that would explain some of it, and i know the bigger intercooler costs more.

lol...maybe they are trying to jack up prices that way they don't have to sell anymore of them....j/k...please don't stop making them

Well my main questions were answered, thank you. But how about this one? Which kit would overall be better? If I'm going to spend 5.5K, I really wouldn't mind springing for the extra $500. How much money am I looking at to get a LSD and get it put in, $1K?

Ya Stazi I realize you have the record...and I was shy of that...but I have VERY limited tuning. I wanted some more tuning, but decided to do the 3L first. Keyser did my chip once with nothing but a normal turbo program and then redid it when i sent him my info.

As for what I am going for now...everyone will have to wait and see...b/c I don't want to talk crap or exaggerate and then have to come back and say well.... yadda yadda.

Hopefully I will have it running and breaking in this month.

Mines gettin' revamped over the winter too - in time for SZ06

Originally posted by Stazi:
Mines gettin' revamped over the winter too - in time for SZ06

So are you Northern snobs going to have Spring Zing any further south of Virginia this year?

I requested an alternate location than next door to Michigan but everyone ignored me.

I'd love to go though. It is actually possible that I might be able to go now that my school dates are changing.

Originally posted by warmonger:

Originally posted by Stazi:
Mines gettin' revamped over the winter too - in time for SZ06

So are you Northern snobs going to have Spring Zing any further south of Virginia this year? I requested an alternate location than next door to Michigan but everyone ignored me.

I'd love to go though. It is actually possible that I might be able to go now that my school dates are changing.

Sorry Tom, it's officially in Indiana again! We just setup registration lastnight! May 18-22. Definitely try and make it up, you'll have a blast!

Mark

Tom, you MUST come! We have too much to talk about/compare/beer to drink!

Originally posted by Stazi:
Tom, you MUST come! We have too much to talk about/compare/beer to drink!

~Josh

I'd like to come and drink beer......mmmm
I'll look at the calendar and see what I can do.

Originally posted by warmonger:
I'd like to come and drink beer......mmmm
I'll look at the calendar and see what I can do.

Come out! I need some dyno competition.

I'll try. It'll all be dependent on my class scheduling and if I can take some leave.

Jim, I'll try and give you some this year. Buckshot will have to finally step down from #2!

Originally posted by beyondloadedSE:

Originally posted by warmonger:
I'd like to come and drink beer......mmmm
I'll look at the calendar and see what I can do.

Come out! I need some dyno competition.

I'll bring the leaf-blower