Contour Enthusiasts Group Archives
Posted By: WorldTour_dup1 Kenne Bell for Escape. - 10/04/05 06:27 PM
OK, for those about to jump my sh** for making this post, please read first!

I know in the past there has been a lot of discussion on the topic in the past and how it won't work. Well, my mother recently picked up an '06 3L Escape and since my bro's '00 Contour was parked next to her Escape I did some comparing the engine bays in the driveway which got me thinking about this dreaded topic!
I also started doing some research on the blower system itself and how it mounts in the car.

One reason for it not working I have seen posted is in relation to the upper motor mount being in the way. I'm going to disagree with this one because the mounts look nearly identical between the Contour & Escape. Also the Kenne Bell Makes use of the upper mount for added support. (see pic)

Note its not mounted on top of the engine, but rather off to the side:


This brings up major reason #2 Hood clearance.
Personally with the introduction of the carbon fiber cowl hood I don't feel this to be as big of a deal as it is made out to be because you only need about 3" from the top of a 3L intake to the underside of the hood to clear the intake pipe and allow for engine movement. The only grey area is the actual SC outlet which could rub because its so far forward. (but thats easily solved - a la "power buldge")

Now obviously it won't work with a 2.5L upper intake, because it occupies a lot of the same realistate as the front half of the upper plenum, so a 3L intake would most certainly have to be used. This helps though because the blower itself is only about .5" taller then the 3L upper plenum and it allows it to be positioned more central on the engine. Piping to run an intercooler (not included with the kit) could get kind of complicated though.

All in all, I think its doable, but would require some minor hood modification to an existing cowl hood & a 3L intake.

Here are some additional pics i dug up showing an installed kit on an Escape with the additional of an intercooler.





I hope if nothing else hope this thread initiates some good debate and help people break the "it can't be done, no way, no how!" mentality.
-Mark
Posted By: mamisano_dup1 Re: Kenne Bell for Escape. - 10/04/05 06:35 PM
Hmmm, would save clearance issues if the outlet was a wide oval. It could stay that way until right before the TB where it can transition to round.
Posted By: Livinsvt_dup1 Re: Kenne Bell for Escape. - 10/04/05 07:22 PM
Yea I never understood the mount claims. Like you said its clearly in the front. Might take some modifications to the front rad support, certainly some mods to the hood. The motor in the Merkur seems to sit quite a bit lower than in a Contour, so hard to judge what would needed to be modded. At the very least I would say bulge in the front of the hood, might look funny on a cowl. Modding an oem style hood might work better. Also looks to sit very close to the pulley for the water pump, theres ways around that though. I would say it would be doable for someone with some skills.
Posted By: WorldTour_dup1 Re: Kenne Bell for Escape. - 10/04/05 07:33 PM
I don't think the rad support would have to be modified because the SC doesn't stick out further then the leading edge of the valve cover. Infact it should be nearly flush with it.
Posted By: todras_dup1 Re: Kenne Bell for Escape. - 10/04/05 08:16 PM
I could have told you it would fit. I have 3 on my car.
Posted By: WorldTour_dup1 Re: Kenne Bell for Escape. - 10/04/05 08:17 PM
Originally posted by todras:
I have 3 on my car.




What, are you Dale Earnhart now?
Posted By: RTStabler51_dup1 Re: Kenne Bell for Escape. - 10/04/05 08:19 PM
No, Todd's more like Jason Lefflers.

Originally posted by WorldTour:
Originally posted by todras:
I have 3 on my car.




What, are you Dale Earnhart now?


Posted By: KingpinSVT Re: Kenne Bell for Escape. - 10/04/05 08:24 PM
I thought the carbon fiber cowl hood was of the same height as stock underneat because of the supports?

Posted By: WorldTour_dup1 Re: Kenne Bell for Escape. - 10/04/05 08:28 PM
Minor technicality.... They are easily cut out and if you're worried about flex it wouldn't be hard to glass in a perimeter support.
Posted By: Swazo Re: Kenne Bell for Escape. - 10/04/05 09:43 PM
1. It looks like it mounts to the PS/top engine mount, which is fairly different on Contiques. Adapting this aspect would be the key issue to making it work correctly so that the serpintine belt was perfectly aligned.

2. Our engines sit much higher than in Escapes,not only would the supercharger sit above the hood line, but it's outlet would be even higher. A HUGH cowl would be needed to enclose it with room to move.
Consider this, the IAC has clearance issues in a Contique with a stock hood because it mounts ontop of the 3L UIM, let alone a SC'er. Look how low the UIM sits in the Escape engines bay.

3. A 3L front bank valve cover would also need to be used for the different oil cap location.

4. A 3L UIM (plastic or aluminum) would need to be used.


That's what I see right off the bat, I'm sure I'm overlooking something(s)......
Posted By: MapOfTaziFoSho Re: Kenne Bell for Escape. - 10/04/05 10:44 PM
Originally posted by Swazo:
1. It looks like it mounts to the PS/top engine mount, which is fairly different on Contiques. Adapting this aspect would be the key issue to making it work correctly so that the serpintine belt was perfectly aligned.

2. Our engines sit much higher than in Escapes,not only would the supercharger sit above the hood line, but it's outlet would be even higher. A HUGH cowl would be needed to enclose it with room to move.
Consider this, the IAC has clearance issues in a Contique with a stock hood because it mounts ontop of the 3L UIM, let alone a SC'er. Look how low the UIM sits in the Escape engines bay.

3. A 3L front bank valve cover would also need to be used for the different oil cap location.

4. A 3L UIM (plastic or aluminum) would need to be used.


That's what I see right off the bat, I'm sure I'm overlooking something(s)......




Hood would look god awful. What about the new blower used with the ATX cougar kit?! This could be a nice option??!?!
Posted By: WorldTour_dup1 Re: Kenne Bell for Escape. - 10/04/05 10:55 PM
Originally posted by Swazo:
1. It looks like it mounts to the PS/top engine mount, which is fairly different on Contiques. Adapting this aspect would be the key issue to making it work correctly so that the serpintine belt was perfectly aligned.
Quote:


It's possible, but according to Kenne Bell it attaches to the upper motor mount.

Quote:

2. Our engines sit much higher than in Escapes,not only would the supercharger sit above the hood line, but it's outlet would be even higher. A HUGH cowl would be needed to enclose it with room to move.
Consider this, the IAC has clearance issues in a Contique with a stock hood because it mounts ontop of the 3L UIM, let alone a SC'er. Look how low the UIM sits in the Escape engines bay.




The blower itself, minus the outlet, is only .5" taller then the highest point of the 3L UIM. The outlet manifold is approx 2.5" tall (notice the angle of it, there is more clearance at the front) and the outlet pipe is 2" O.D. hence my earlier comment of 3" of clearance needed to allow engine movement. I'm not basing this off of speculation from pics... i did look into this.

Quote:

3. A 3L front bank valve cover would also need to be used for the different oil cap location.



Good point, I didn't even notice that.

Quote:

4. A 3L UIM (plastic or aluminum) would need to be used.



As stated in my original post.


Quote:

That's what I see right off the bat, I'm sure I'm overlooking something(s)......




I'm sure there are other small bits that would need to be addressed.
Posted By: Loco4G63 Re: Kenne Bell for Escape. - 10/04/05 11:00 PM
Quit talking about it.....and somebody do it!
Posted By: Swazo Re: Kenne Bell for Escape. - 10/05/05 12:05 AM
Originally posted by MapOfTaziFoSho:
Originally posted by Swazo:
1. It looks like it mounts to the PS/top engine mount, which is fairly different on Contiques. Adapting this aspect would be the key issue to making it work correctly so that the serpintine belt was perfectly aligned.

2. Our engines sit much higher than in Escapes,not only would the supercharger sit above the hood line, but it's outlet would be even higher. A HUGH cowl would be needed to enclose it with room to move.
Consider this, the IAC has clearance issues in a Contique with a stock hood because it mounts ontop of the 3L UIM, let alone a SC'er. Look how low the UIM sits in the Escape engines bay.

3. A 3L front bank valve cover would also need to be used for the different oil cap location.

4. A 3L UIM (plastic or aluminum) would need to be used.


That's what I see right off the bat, I'm sure I'm overlooking something(s)......




Hood would look god awful. What about the new blower used with the ATX cougar kit?! This could be a nice option??!?!




IF they go into production, lower their price and are available for MTX's
Posted By: Swazo Re: Kenne Bell for Escape. - 10/05/05 12:06 AM
Originally posted by WorldTour:
Originally posted by Swazo:
1. It looks like it mounts to the PS/top engine mount, which is fairly different on Contiques. Adapting this aspect would be the key issue to making it work correctly so that the serpintine belt was perfectly aligned.
Quote:


It's possible, but according to Kenne Bell it attaches to the upper motor mount.

Quote:

2. Our engines sit much higher than in Escapes,not only would the supercharger sit above the hood line, but it's outlet would be even higher. A HUGH cowl would be needed to enclose it with room to move.
Consider this, the IAC has clearance issues in a Contique with a stock hood because it mounts ontop of the 3L UIM, let alone a SC'er. Look how low the UIM sits in the Escape engines bay.




The blower itself, minus the outlet, is only .5" taller then the highest point of the 3L UIM. The outlet manifold is approx 2.5" tall (notice the angle of it, there is more clearance at the front) and the outlet pipe is 2" O.D. hence my earlier comment of 3" of clearance needed to allow engine movement. I'm not basing this off of speculation from pics... i did look into this.

Quote:

3. A 3L front bank valve cover would also need to be used for the different oil cap location.



Good point, I didn't even notice that.

Quote:

4. A 3L UIM (plastic or aluminum) would need to be used.



As stated in my original post.


Quote:

That's what I see right off the bat, I'm sure I'm overlooking something(s)......




I'm sure there are other small bits that would need to be addressed.






1. We're talking about the samething. The top engine mount is the P/S mount. The Escape's is pretty different than ours. When doing my 3L swap, I needed the newer/smaller bolt version used on late 98+ duratec Contiques. The stealership tried to give me an Escape's, which looked totally different

2. Fitment is still tight in our engine bays. I have the updated oil pan/baffel, and had to get the correct dip stick too. The top of the same dip stick you see in the pic of the Escape's engine bay, hits the mesh in my vented EVO style CF hood. Look how much lower it is than the SC'er
Posted By: MapOfTaziFoSho Re: Kenne Bell for Escape. - 10/05/05 12:26 AM
Originally posted by Swazo:
Originally posted by MapOfTaziFoSho:
Originally posted by Swazo:
1. It looks like it mounts to the PS/top engine mount, which is fairly different on Contiques. Adapting this aspect would be the key issue to making it work correctly so that the serpintine belt was perfectly aligned.

2. Our engines sit much higher than in Escapes,not only would the supercharger sit above the hood line, but it's outlet would be even higher. A HUGH cowl would be needed to enclose it with room to move.
Consider this, the IAC has clearance issues in a Contique with a stock hood because it mounts ontop of the 3L UIM, let alone a SC'er. Look how low the UIM sits in the Escape engines bay.

3. A 3L front bank valve cover would also need to be used for the different oil cap location.

4. A 3L UIM (plastic or aluminum) would need to be used.


That's what I see right off the bat, I'm sure I'm overlooking something(s)......




Hood would look god awful. What about the new blower used with the ATX cougar kit?! This could be a nice option??!?!




IF they go into production, lower their price and are available for MTX's




Oh so it totally doesn't fit an MTX...interesting. I fig'd there is no way it couldn't fit....
Posted By: BiggsvT28 Re: Kenne Bell for Escape. - 10/05/05 12:28 AM
Nobody knows yet iirc
Posted By: warmonger_dup1 Re: Kenne Bell for Escape. - 10/05/05 01:45 AM
Actually no. It looks very similar to the contour!

I'm impressed with this information.
Posted By: warmonger_dup1 Re: Kenne Bell for Escape. - 10/05/05 01:49 AM
No. The bolt pattern is the same, just the diameters is different. It would be the bolt patter that was important, the rest would just be spacing.
The hood issues have to be measured.
The Valve cover is an easy fix.
The manifold is an easy fix.

Mounting the charger and intercooler are the only issues and it looks like this method is VERY viable if the hood is changed out.
Posted By: m!key Re: Kenne Bell for Escape. - 10/05/05 02:21 AM
hey mark, get me one and i will see if it works on my escape engine in the svt.
Posted By: WorldTour_dup1 Re: Kenne Bell for Escape. - 10/05/05 02:32 AM
Originally posted by mikey boy:
hey mark, get me one and i will see if it works on my escape engine in the svt.




If i could manage to weasel one into my possession it would already be on the '06 3L AWD Escape.
Posted By: WorldTour_dup1 Re: Kenne Bell for Escape. - 10/05/05 02:34 AM
Originally posted by LocoSCZ:
Quit talking about it.....and somebody do it!




If I had another tour and some expendable income... but hey I think I'm speaking for a majority here!
Posted By: WorldTour_dup1 Re: Kenne Bell for Escape. - 10/05/05 02:35 AM
Originally posted by warmonger:
No. The bolt pattern is the same, just the diameters is different. It would be the bolt patter that was important, the rest would just be spacing.
The hood issues have to be measured.
The Valve cover is an easy fix.
The manifold is an easy fix.

Mounting the charger and intercooler are the only issues and it looks like this method is VERY viable if the hood is changed out.




I'm glad, not everyone thinks I'm nuts! haha
Posted By: m!key Re: Kenne Bell for Escape. - 10/05/05 02:56 AM
Originally posted by WorldTour:
If i could manage to weasel one into my possession it would already be on the '06 3L AWD Escape.




we arent talking escapes, just escape engines in contours. call kenne tell him svt needs one for testing. i will test it on my escape motor.
Posted By: WorldTour_dup1 Re: Kenne Bell for Escape. - 10/05/05 03:01 AM
unfortunately it isn't always that easy.
Posted By: DemonSVT_dup1 Re: Kenne Bell for Escape. - 10/05/05 04:09 AM
Originally posted by Swazo:
2. Our engines sit much higher than in Escapes,not only would the supercharger sit above the hood line, but it's outlet would be even higher. A HUGH cowl would be needed to enclose it with room to move.




Absolutely Perfect point that comes up every time this idea does. People keep using the Escape picture and don't connect the fact the engine sits 3-4" lower in the engine bay then it does in our car. You can't just factor that out or ignore that in the equation.
Either way that's one hell of a Fugly hood needed to cover that "power bulge"
Posted By: Swazo Re: Kenne Bell for Escape. - 10/05/05 05:01 AM
Originally posted by warmonger:
No. The bolt pattern is the same, just the diameters is different. It would be the bolt patter that was important, the rest would just be spacing.
The hood issues have to be measured.
The Valve cover is an easy fix.
The manifold is an easy fix.

Mounting the charger and intercooler are the only issues and it looks like this method is VERY viable if the hood is changed out.




Odd, the mount they tried to sell me at the stealership was had 2 studs rather than 4, and it swung towards the firewall.... not inline like ours I haven't seen an Escape's engine bay upclose, so I can't say for sure.
Posted By: 111R Re: Kenne Bell for Escape. - 10/05/05 06:54 AM
Originally posted by LocoSCZ:
Quit talking about it.....and somebody do it!


Posted By: WorldTour_dup1 Re: Kenne Bell for Escape. - 10/05/05 01:10 PM
Originally posted by DemonSVT:
Absolutely Perfect point that comes up every time this idea does. People keep using the Escape picture and don't connect the fact the engine sits 3-4" lower in the engine bay then it does in our car. You can't just factor that out or ignore that in the equation.
Either way that's one hell of a Fugly hood needed to cover that "power bulge"




The Escape engine bay has nothing to do with it. I know the engine sits lower, thats why I picked up the phone and made few calls to determin just how much higher the blower sits in relation to the UIM on the 3L. If you would have read some of my previous posts you would see that I've included some figures on how much higher it is over the 3L UIM.
Posted By: RTStabler51_dup1 Re: Kenne Bell for Escape. - 10/05/05 01:30 PM
Originally posted by WorldTour:
Originally posted by DemonSVT:
Absolutely Perfect point that comes up every time this idea does. People keep using the Escape picture and don't connect the fact the engine sits 3-4" lower in the engine bay then it does in our car. You can't just factor that out or ignore that in the equation.
Either way that's one hell of a Fugly hood needed to cover that "power bulge"




The Escape engine bay has nothing to do with it. I know the engine sits lower, thats why I picked up the phone and made few calls to determin just how much higher the blower sits in relation to the UIM on the 3L. If you would have read some of my previous posts you would see that I've included some figures on how much higher it is over the 3L UIM.




But doesn't it have everything to do with it? It looks like via the picturs, the KB kit uses the Escape 'front' engine mount for support. So, if the engine is lower in the bay, the mount is going to be lower. Where as the CDW27 engine is higher, the mount is going to be higher and thus be in the way of the support and looks like tensoner for the snout of the blower...
Posted By: WorldTour_dup1 Re: Kenne Bell for Escape. - 10/05/05 02:02 PM
The upper mounts are in the same location in relation to placement on the engine. Yeah they are shaped different to position the engine differently in the different vehicles, but the architecture of where they connect to on the engine remains unchanged.
I will probably be out visiting the family this weekend, if You want I can take some good close up pics of the mounts (both from the Contour & the Escape.)

-Mark
Posted By: warmonger_dup1 Re: Kenne Bell for Escape. - 10/06/05 02:05 AM
Originally posted by Swazo:
Originally posted by warmonger:
No. The bolt pattern is the same, just the diameters is different. It would be the bolt patter that was important, the rest would just be spacing.
The hood issues have to be measured.
The Valve cover is an easy fix.
The manifold is an easy fix.

Mounting the charger and intercooler are the only issues and it looks like this method is VERY viable if the hood is changed out.




Odd, the mount they tried to sell me at the stealership was had 2 studs rather than 4, and it swung towards the firewall.... not inline like ours I haven't seen an Escape's engine bay upclose, so I can't say for sure.




The bolts are there in the block for either mount type, therefore the relevant bolts can be made to fit, probably with a hybrid mount. The Hood would be interesting though.
Posted By: MapOfTaziFoSho Re: Kenne Bell for Escape. - 10/06/05 03:36 AM
Just cut the hood. Have teh blower stickin out teh front!
Posted By: Stazi Re: Kenne Bell for Escape. - 10/06/05 12:19 PM
That would look ridiculous. Why even bother to do all this horsecrap for something that will STILL be worse than the ADC kit in terms of performance and cost. Makes ZERO sense!
Posted By: Pole120 Re: Kenne Bell for Escape. - 10/06/05 12:35 PM
Originally posted by Stazi:
That would look ridiculous. Why even bother to do all this horsecrap for something that will STILL be worse than the ADC kit in terms of performance and cost. Makes ZERO sense!




some people are driven to do things becase no one else has before.........
Posted By: Stazi Re: Kenne Bell for Escape. - 10/06/05 01:13 PM
That's hilarious.

Everyone knows that most Ceger's have deep pockets and short arms - so that argument although true in most cases, doesn't mean squat here. People complain about the price of the ADC kit so I don't see someone doing this for more $$$ and less powA.
Posted By: WorldTour_dup1 Re: Kenne Bell for Escape. - 10/06/05 01:27 PM
Originally posted by Stazi:
That would look ridiculous. Why even bother to do all this horsecrap for something that will STILL be worse than the ADC kit in terms of performance and cost. Makes ZERO sense!
Quote:



Originally posted by Stazi:
That's hilarious.

Everyone knows that most Ceger's have deep pockets and short arms - so that argument although true in most cases, doesn't mean squat here. People complain about the price of the ADC kit so I don't see someone doing this for more $$$ and less powA.




Way to contribute to to what was a good discussion about a hypothetical installation.
Posted By: djdanyloz Re: Kenne Bell for Escape. - 10/06/05 01:49 PM
Originally posted by Stazi:
That's hilarious.
People complain about the price of the ADC kit so I don't see someone doing this for more $$$ and less powA.





Roots/Screw type SCs create a totally different type of power than other SCs a 89-93 Supercoupe gets 315 ft/lb @ only 2600 rpm. Id love to add a roots/screw on my CSVT, the low end would be definately worth it.

It totally depends on what you are looking for.
Posted By: Stazi Re: Kenne Bell for Escape. - 10/06/05 02:30 PM
Yeah because a butt-load of torque down low is what you want in this car - NOT.
It already had traction issues with the torque the turbo creates at 3000rpm.

And comparing the Contour to a Super Coupe is like comparing apples to chocolate bars.
Posted By: RTStabler51_dup1 Re: Kenne Bell for Escape. - 10/06/05 03:02 PM
which is the reason I've never understood the fasination of people adding roots type S/Cs to contour and taurus platforms....

Originally posted by Stazi:
Yeah because a butt-load of torque down low is what you want in this car - NOT.
It already had traction issues with the torque the turbo creates at 3000rpm.

And comparing the Contour to a Super Coupe is like comparing apples to chocolate bars.


Posted By: warmonger_dup1 Re: Kenne Bell for Escape. - 10/06/05 03:02 PM
Originally posted by MapOfTaziFoSho:
Just cut the hood. Have teh blower stickin out teh front!




I think that would look pretty good for a racing car!
Posted By: MapOfTaziFoSho Re: Kenne Bell for Escape. - 10/06/05 03:38 PM
Originally posted by warmonger:
Originally posted by MapOfTaziFoSho:
Just cut the hood. Have teh blower stickin out teh front!




I think that would look pretty good for a racing car!




There is a saturn sc2 that prowls woodward with the wastegate sticking out the front of the hood. Looks meaner than it actually is....primer grey. Not too fast tho...
Posted By: Swazo Re: Kenne Bell for Escape (W/ more pics) - 10/14/05 06:13 AM
Here are some fairly recent engine bay pics that I totally forgot to post. Notice my dip stick BARELY touches the mesh on my hood. Think of what the hood would look like to clear the KB.


Posted By: carzyjay Re: Kenne Bell for Escape. - 10/14/05 06:37 AM
one of my best friends brent worked for ken or kennybell for years( r&d he made the kits, ) just quit a short while ago, its a great powerful kit.
Posted By: Stazi Re: Kenne Bell for Escape. - 10/14/05 12:57 PM
Swazo the car is looking sweet. Hopefully you will delete the POS EGR system though when you tune it. Turn that ish off in the code and bin it!
Posted By: Swazo Re: Kenne Bell for Escape. - 10/14/05 01:05 PM
Thanks! I've got it shut off via tune, the EGR valve is plugged off and installed to look functional for visual inspection only.
Posted By: Blackcoog_dup1 Re: Kenne Bell for Escape. - 10/14/05 05:39 PM
Why would you want to turn the EGR off? Doesn't it help with gas milage and emissions? I know emissions isn't a huge deal but gas milage is nice.
Posted By: KingpinSVT Re: Kenne Bell for Escape (W/ more pics) - 10/14/05 06:04 PM
Swazo those pics made me giggle like a 7 year old girl. Wrap that project up already and get her on the road!
Hot damn.

Swazo, that's gonna be the sexiest engine bay ever!
Posted By: DemonSVT_dup1 Re: Kenne Bell for Escape. - 10/14/05 08:03 PM
Originally posted by Blackcoog:
Why would you want to turn the EGR off? Doesn't it help with gas milage and emissions? I know emissions isn't a huge deal but gas milage is nice.



It helps with emissions and engine cooling.

There is no performance hit for having one or performance gain for removing it.
Posted By: svtProdigy Re: Kenne Bell for Escape. - 10/14/05 08:19 PM
Originally posted by DemonSVT:
Originally posted by Blackcoog:
Why would you want to turn the EGR off? Doesn't it help with gas milage and emissions? I know emissions isn't a huge deal but gas milage is nice.



It helps with emissions and engine cooling.

There is no performance hit for having one or performance gain for removing it.




no performance gain of loss but your intake will stay much cleaner.
Yeah I know. I was running the escape dipstick in my car for the last year. It fits under a contour hood fine. I changed back to the contour stick a couple of weeks ago though. No difference on the measurement but the stick sits higher on the escape and kind of covers the oil cap.
Posted By: MapOfTaziFoSho Re: Kenne Bell for Escape. - 10/14/05 11:19 PM
Swazo you are a BAMF! Love that engine bay...holy sh!t that is badazz!
Posted By: Swazo Re: Kenne Bell for Escape. - 10/15/05 09:33 PM
LOL, thanks for the kind words

I'm not worried about the increased chance of detonation with the removal of the EGR system. Teamed with my IC and water injection fairly soon AND full tuning ability, I should be ok. A cleaner burn and advanced timing without poor combustion will be a bonus along with not having to make a new EGR tube, ect.
© CEG Archives