my car has pretty low miles so im thinking of turbocharging it. its not going to be ridiculus, just more fun driving around town. has anyone turboed a stock 2.5 and what were the results. this is an automatic tranny car so im sure that wont last too long. i was thinking of running a t3 from a 5 speed turbo coupe. any comments?
A T3 is WAY TOO small.
Good luck with the POS slushbox.
You may want to search. A lot.
i hadnt really researched it too much but they make decent power on a 2.3 4 cyl. i figured on a motor that was making probably 50 more whp naturally aspirated it would be a decent upgrade, and it would make more power than the 4 cyl just because of the added airflow. how about a stock grand national turbo? if im so wrong enlighten me.
i know how to chose turbos for big v8's but not little cars. i figured something with similar displacement would work out ok.
from what ive read on here warmonger is running a similar setup and is making more than 300 hp at the wheels. so how is this too small of a turbo? i must be missing something here.
wow
How do you know how to size a turbo on a big motor, but not a small one?
Warmonger is running a t3/t4 60 trim. There are lot of people running 2.5 turbo's...
SEARCH!!!
Hows about a stock grand national turbo
...you need to do a lot of reading. I also have a hard time believing that you know how to pick turbos for BIG V8's...especially if you come on here asking us if you can manage to scrap together some BS turbo kit using junkyard turbos. If you want a turbo kit just call ADC...hopefully they will have the new log style header design done which is supposed to fit the ATX. Besides turboing the CD4E is a waste...thing'll fall apart after 500 miles.
ok brainiacks, why would i spend thousands of dollars on a turbo setup on a car i bought for a buck? come on now, use your head here boys, the turbo kit would be 4000% of the value of the car. i wasnt looking for a race beast just some more pickup to make this thing a little bit more fun. i was thinking about maybe 250whp tops. well i guess i got my answer, thanks for all the help
oh i got the specs on the turbo i had laying here in front of me
its a t3 60 trim, 0.63 a/r
Originally posted by matt351:
ok brainiacks, why would i spend thousands of dollars on a turbo setup on a car i bought for a buck? come on now, use your head here boys, the turbo kit would be 4000% of the value of the car. i wasnt looking for a race beast just some more pickup to make this thing a little bit more fun. i was thinking about maybe 250whp tops. well i guess i got my answer, thanks for all the help
You are making very little sense. You want a lil more pickup so you are gonna attempt to slap a turbo on your ATX duratec...I think what you are really looking for is a set of headers and an intake.
Matt, I don't know if they will work with your ATX, but you might PM Tom (Warmonger) about his turbo stuff he has for sale....
Originally posted by RTStabler51:
Matt, I don't know if they will work with your ATX, but you might PM Tom (Warmonger) about his turbo stuff he has for sale....
They won't work don't bother.
Originally posted by Keyser:
Originally posted by RTStabler51:
Matt, I don't know if they will work with your ATX, but you might PM Tom (Warmonger) about his turbo stuff he has for sale....
They won't work don't bother.
I figured, thanks for the confirmation...I'm assuming its due to the size/placement of the ATX?
oh well i guess ill just concentrate on finishing up the lightning and planning for its turbo setup.
ryan, do you still have your lightning? i remember you were trying to sell it.
Yup, still got'er. Drive it everyday. I don't want to sell, but a shift in priorities is making me...but I've been saying that for 3 months now :-) Just gotta get the Conturd back down here.
Originally posted by RTStabler51:
Originally posted by Keyser:
Originally posted by RTStabler51:
Matt, I don't know if they will work with your ATX, but you might PM Tom (Warmonger) about his turbo stuff he has for sale....
They won't work don't bother.
I figured, thanks for the confirmation...I'm assuming its due to the size/placement of the ATX?
Even though he used the stock manifolds? I would think there is a chance.
I haven't looked at the ATX but I'm guessing the crossover/up-pipe would conflict with the transmission.
Someone have a picture of the ATX with the battery box removed?
dont even bother ill be buying them soon
I'll be prepping them soon so they're nicer looking too.
Originally posted by matt351:
ok brainiacks, why would i spend thousands of dollars on a turbo setup on a car i bought for a buck? come on now, use your head here boys, the turbo kit would be 4000% of the value of the car. i wasnt looking for a race beast just some more pickup to make this thing a little bit more fun. i was thinking about maybe 250whp tops. well i guess i got my answer, thanks for all the help
It's not 4000% of the cars value, just because you paid $1 for a car doesn't mean thats all its worth.
And as always, power isn't cheap. If you are asking for another 100+ to the wheels, thats a lot of power to be added. aka a lot of money.
Originally posted by posthuman63t:
Originally posted by matt351:
ok brainiacks, why would i spend thousands of dollars on a turbo setup on a car i bought for a buck? come on now, use your head here boys, the turbo kit would be 4000% of the value of the car. i wasnt looking for a race beast just some more pickup to make this thing a little bit more fun. i was thinking about maybe 250whp tops. well i guess i got my answer, thanks for all the help
It's not 4000% of the cars value, just because you paid $1 for a car doesn't mean thats all its worth.
Its called an exaggeration
Yeah.. exaggeration.. like wanting a "mere" 250WHEEL hp from a 170CRANK hp
ATX tour.. WITHOUT a quality turbo, AND cheap!
Ray
ok i made the turbo kit for my lightning, so why couldnt i fab up a kit for a contour??? does this car use some kind of magical technology that makes my abilities just vanish when it comes to constructing something???
i really did pay a buck for the car, it was essentially a gift from an aunt since i helped take care of her before she went into an assisted living complex.
i realize that it would take a few hours on a dyno to get the tune all lined out and running properly. also, i know that i would also have to upgrade the fuel pump and run larger injectors, probably gen2 lightning 42lb'ers. i realize the crap auto trans would probably die after a while, so obviously a rebuild would be in order sometime in the future.
now trust me im not trying to be a know all here, because i know very little about these wrong wheel drive cars. ive also dabbled in the turbo 4cyl fords. if a t3 turbo like i was referring to earlier made 150hp non intercooled on a 2.3 that normally aspirated made about 85-90 hp at the wheels, why wouldnt something vaguely similar happen on a contour that is probaby making 130hp or so at the wheels. this isnt going to be some 300 hp drag strip terror like others on this board, just something thats a little quicker.
like i said i am not claiming to be some know it all but some of the crap some of you guys are saying just doesnt seem to make much sense to me.
You obviously are not mapping out your ideas.
Do some math and figure out what pressure ratio would be required on the tiny T3 to generate any worthwhile power gains. (stock is ~18psi on the 200 crank HP 2.3L IIRC
) Then consider all the heat introduced from running that high of a pressure ratio. Then consider the stock compression is 9.7 to 1.
You want to size the turbo so you can run a lower pressure ratio while still being in the peak efficiency range so the heat introduced is the lowest possible. Then you'll still want an intercooler or a band aid approach like water/meth injection. (yes it works but it's definitely not ideal by itself!)
Then figure to spend just as much on the POS slushbox.
Trying to make an ATX Contour fast is like trying to polish a turd, no matter how shiny you get it - it'll still be a turd. The CD4E is nothing like the Auto in your lightning. It's heavy, weak, too big for it's own good and won't take much of a beating without spending SERIOUS money on it - which in the end will still be slower than a MTX AND from what I gather you want to go budget.
You're basically starting off on the toally wrong foot by trying to hot up "Nanna's Car".
If it were an MTX - it'd be a whole different story - but yes you NEED to go do some clcs on turbo sizing as you're clueless.
Originally posted by Stazi:
Trying to make an ATX Contour fast is like trying to polish a turd, no matter how shiny you get it - it'll still be a turd. The CD4E is nothing like the Auto in your lightning. It's heavy, weak, too big for it's own good and won't take much of a beating without spending SERIOUS money on it - which in the end will still be slower than a MTX AND from what I gather you want to go budget.
i know but i felt it was my obligation to at least try to polish it up a little bit. i will probably just stick with the suspension mods and maybe exhaust and leave it at that. hopefully messing with the suspension and the exhaust will make it a little bit more enjoyable to drive around. if not i could always get the v6 5 speed sho that ive been wanting for a few years now and give this to the girlfriend to drive around.
on the tranny aspect, my lightning is a '93. they had the crappiest trannies of all of the lightnings made. ive actually had my truck for 5 years and put 35k on it and im getting ready to put the 3rd trans in this truck. the first rebuild didnt get all of the upgrades that the later models came stock with.
Regardless.............the tranny in your truck is made for a truck, hence it is a little more robust than the complete POS they slapped into the Contour.
i was in no way trying to defend the trans in my truck, its just as worthless as the auto in a contour. if you read the post you would see that i wasnt defending the auto trans at all. the trucks trans is barely adequate for a stock vehicle, hence why it blew with my only mods being an e fans, exhaust, and an airfilter. it is definately not up to the task, just as the atx isnt in a contour.
demonsvt -- congrats on those times, thats really respectable for an n/a motor.
im hoping that my trucks engine runs mid 13's n/a. at 8.5:1 comp that will be a feat. im hoping to turn mid 11's with the turbo setup tuned.
Originally posted by DemonSVT:
You obviously are not mapping out your ideas.
Do some math and figure out what pressure ratio would be required on the tiny T3 to generate any worthwhile power gains. (stock is ~18psi on the 200 crank HP 2.3L IIRC ) Then consider all the heat introduced from running that high of a pressure ratio. Then consider the stock compression is 9.7 to 1.
You want to size the turbo so you can run a lower pressure ratio while still being in the peak efficiency range so the heat introduced is the lowest possible. Then you'll still want an intercooler or a band aid approach like water/meth injection. (yes it works but it's definitely not ideal by itself!)
Then figure to spend just as much on the POS slushbox.
Uhh, what?
1. Stock on the best engines is only 15 psi and 200 HP, the 87-88 TC made 190 crank HP with an IHI(SMALLER than a T3) and at 15 psi, but could run up to 18 psi, which is over 200 crank HP obviously, so no you don't remember correctly. I have had an IHI car at around 240 WHP and another Turboford guy has knocked out 13s in a 3700 lb car. The T3 is much larger and is capable of 300 WHP. With a bigger engine that 300 WHP simply happens at a LOWER pressure ratio. Compression has nothing to do with it and only limits max boost due to detonation, the higher compression and bigger displacement simply results in a super quick spooling torque monster that is limited to 9 psi boost, maybe 15. And unless you've been through three different turbos to know how they all feel, you can't really appreciate a small turbo the way I do. Everything's speculation until you look at a compressor map.
My estimations from a 60 Trim map show over 65% efficiency at 240 WHP or so. That's darn good in my book for a junkyard setup, with a good intercooler it's not even an issue, especially with a bigger housing like a .82 A/R exhaust hsg. No where near overspeeding the turbo either. And who said T3s weren't good quality? Millions of production cars sure seem to work just fine with them? Just because the GT series or a hybrid is new and shiny does that make it better? Not always, and they're a lot more expensive. And to think that headers and intake would give you the jump a "measly" T3 would give is just preposterous.
2. Let the freakin' tranny blow, who cares? If it blows then put something better in. Stop crying about how it'll never last, if you want to make power then you have to deal with the consequences. Matt obviously understands that $hit breaks or he wouldn't be messing with turbos to begin with. And why make an attack on his person? He was just asking a question, just because he could search and find that everyone else uses "X" turbo doesn't mean that's all that will work.
Oh and water and methanol is not a band aid. 28 psi on pump gas tells the whole story, and it's been done. How much boost were you running again?
What an excellent first post...
-John
The T3 in question flows about 320cfm at 15psi. (I have the compressor map btw) That wouldn't even break 200 wheels through the ATX. I'm not saying it wouldn't make life much more liveable but you are never going to get remotely close to 300 wheels with it. With nearly any T3 actually.
The entire point I was trying to make is you just don't go throwing things together haphazardly. (well at least shouldn't
) You should do some homework.
You had one very good and clear point in your post.
"Everything's speculation until you look at a compressor map."
I couldn't agree more. In fact I even stated it discreetly myself in the post you quoted didn't I. Another point of my post.
Just because someone isn't running boost on their car doesn't mean they have no knowledge on the subject.
OK, so how can someone who has never worked on a CD4E call it a turd?
Originally posted by matt351:
i will probably just stick with the suspension mods and maybe exhaust and leave it at that. hopefully messing with the suspension and the exhaust will make it a little bit more enjoyable to drive around. if not i could always get the v6 5 speed sho that ive been wanting for a few years now and give this to the girlfriend to drive around.
I think that you'll end up with the best bang for buck doing it this way. I ran a V6/ATX combo for a few years and spent my money on suspension, brakes, wheels, and just an SVT exhaust and while it wasn't as quick as a manual would be, it more than got out of its own way and with the improvements in handling and braking, it was still a lot of fun.
Originally posted by DemonSVT:
The T3 in question flows about 320cfm at 15psi. (I have the compressor map btw) That wouldn't even break 200 wheels through the ATX. I'm not saying it wouldn't make life much more liveable but you are never going to get remotely close to 300 wheels with it. With nearly any T3 actually.
The entire point I was trying to make is you just don't go throwing things together haphazardly. (well at least shouldn't ) You should do some homework.
You had one very good and clear point in your post.
"Everything's speculation until you look at a compressor map."
I couldn't agree more. In fact I even stated it discreetly myself in the post you quoted didn't I. Another point of my post.
Okay, okay, you know compressor maps, and I did notice that. Hmmm, I don't know what to say other than, on a much more poorly flowing 2.3T can do 280 to the wheels or slightly better with a T3. It's certainly not the same thing though, but I happen to believe that if it works it works, you can only find out what's best by tryin it yourself.
i belive someone on here said it best
CHEAP, RELIABLE, FAST
you can choose 2, so quit wasting everyones time!
I know its been said before but I looked into it myself (and realized its too much work but) get an STS turbo (REAR MOUNTED) if you wanna go through all the trouble of turboing your duratec.
Originally posted by MapOfTaziFoShoâ�??¢:
Just because someone isn't running boost on their car doesn't mean they have no knowledge on the subject.
What? Oh, you mean Demon....he has no boost. Oh, and he knows nothing about turbos man, don't listen to him.
hehehe
Originally posted by warmonger:
Originally posted by MapOfTaziFoShoâ�??¢:
Just because someone isn't running boost on their car doesn't mean they have no knowledge on the subject.
What? Oh, you mean Demon....he has no boost. Oh, and he knows nothing about turbos man, don't listen to him.
hehehe
This coming from a guy who's turbo'd his car what: 3 or 4 times now and is still slower then me. 
Hmmm. I could just be sandbagging until someone puts up some real mullah.
Originally posted by DemonSVT:
Originally posted by warmonger:
Originally posted by MapOfTaziFoShoâ�??¢:
Just because someone isn't running boost on their car doesn't mean they have no knowledge on the subject.
What? Oh, you mean Demon....he has no boost. Oh, and he knows nothing about turbos man, don't listen to him.
hehehe
This coming from a guy who's turbo'd his car what: 3 or 4 times now and is still slower then me.
i call BS cause you never posted a video!!!
Tom doesn't need to post a video of his being slower than me. I believe that fact just fine without it.
Seriously though. The only races I'd do against Tom would be 0-60mph and autocross.
He's sandbagging that car a ton with his driving.
Originally posted by DemonSVT:
Tom doesn't need to post a video of his being slower than me. I believe that fact just fine without it.
Seriously though. The only races I'd do against Tom would be 0-60mph and autocross. He's sandbagging that car a ton with his driving.
LOL sounds like someone needs to go to the track with some drag radials ...Tom
Since it could just be my driving, you need to come give me some lessons then.
Everything costs money. I'd like to get some drag radials but I'm still trying to complete a list of improvements. Then there is the pace of school....so much work.
BATTLE OF THE TITANS!!!!!!
I would pay to watch those two do battle on the track.
Both of them need to come to SZ'06 and duke it out on the dyno, strip and Auto-X circuit, and I'm surte the rest of us will join in too to add some underdogs to the dog-fight.
Originally posted by Stazi:
Both of them need to come to SZ'06 and duke it out on the dyno, strip and Auto-X circuit, and I'm surte the rest of us will join in too to add some underdogs to the dog-fight.
agreed
Originally posted by pole120:
Originally posted by Stazi:
Both of them need to come to SZ'06 and duke it out on the dyno, strip and Auto-X circuit, and I'm surte the rest of us will join in too to add some underdogs to the dog-fight.
agreed
<==== (* Cracks knuckles & dawns driving gloves *)
Originally posted by Stazi:
I think you mean "dons"
MAybe he was washing them in the sink 
Originally posted by Stazi:
I think you mean "dons"
You're correct. 
Originally posted by Stazi:
BATTLE OF THE TITANS!!!!!!
Instigator!!
I'm working on some stuff to really improve my power delivery and prevent wheelspin. My 13.8 runs in the quarter were all with insane wheelspin in 1st and 2nd but with a hellacious amount of acceleration in 3rd.
If I can keep traction just in 2nd gear then that will improve those times significantly, probably enough to take Demons 13.4 IMHO, and if I can actually launch well and get some traction in 1st then I might be looking at 13.0's if all else is equal.
I've already installed a 3.7 pound spring in my wastegate versus the 5.8 pound one that comes in it stock. Next is a boost controller and then we'll see.
Originally posted by warmonger:
Originally posted by Stazi:
BATTLE OF THE TITANS!!!!!!
I've already installed a 3.7 pound spring in my wastegate versus the 5.8 pound one that comes in it stock. Next is a boost controller and then we'll see.
so you have the ability to control boost by gear?
Originally posted by 99cougar:
Originally posted by warmonger:
Originally posted by Stazi:
BATTLE OF THE TITANS!!!!!!
I've already installed a 3.7 pound spring in my wastegate versus the 5.8 pound one that comes in it stock. Next is a boost controller and then we'll see.
so you have the ability to control boost by gear?
Do I have the ability? YES.
Have I done it...NO.
I'm working on something better.
Mwuhahahah!
Bah! Tom is the only one I would bet on coming to SZ. We know Greg is a recluse.
Have you tried drag slicks or at least drag radials?
Demon doesn't exist AFAIC, he's just a clever computer program linked to a Contour database with Grumpy v1.0 and Sarcastic v2.1 patches added-in for realism.
Originally posted by Stazi:
Demon doesn't exist AFAIC, he's just a clever computer program linked to a Contour database with Grumpy v1.0 and Sarcastic v2.1 patches added-in for realism.
Hahahah!
As far as slicks or drag radials. Nope. Those runs were on stock width tires, 215/50's to be exact. I feel like 13.8x with that kind of traction issues was pretty good all things considered. I have 235s now and I'm confident of mid 13s with out any other changes right now.
Yeah an set the tires to 25psia dn it should hook.