Tornado Air? - CEG Archives

..... no

I can't believe AutoZone actually sells that eBay garbage. My local AutoZone has a sh*t load of them sitting on a back shelf collecting dust.

Why would anyone want to pay $60 for something the reduces HP?

I've seen them actually sponsering TV programs. That means people are actually buying them. TV ad time is NOT cheap!

whatever! ive seen plenty of exotics with TWIN-tornados that produced unbelievable amounts of hp!

edit: on second thought, maybe those were twin turbos

If 50 cents worth of bent sheetmetal really made an improvement in HP and fuel economy, every car in existence would have one from the factory.

I could see it POSSIBLY helping in a car with a carburetor or throttle-body injection. But in a modern car, there's just no way. The air would somehow have to keep swirling as it passed through the throttle body, through the upper intake, into each runner, and finally as it passed the fuel injector and entered the combusion chamber. Not likely.

Originally posted by rearden:
If 50 cents worth of bent sheetmetal really made an improvement in HP and fuel economy, every car in existence would have one from the factory.

I could see it POSSIBLY helping in a car with a carburetor or throttle-body injection. But in a modern car, there's just no way. The air would somehow have to keep swirling as it passed through the throttle body, through the upper intake, into each runner, and finally as it passed the fuel injector and entered the combusion chamber. Not likely.

....esp with our uim design

Read FAQ Sticky in Duratec Performance...

Some modifications don't add horsepower, but will add to MPG - you know - improve engine efficency and driveability. I don't have one personally but we did install one in a freinds 2000 stratus 2.5l v-6. Now power and seat of pants feel didn't go anywhere, but he did pick up 6-8 mpg on his daily commute to work. Of course that wasn't there when he was pounding on the car either. With gas prices going the way they are, every little bit helps. As for it being an intake restriction, I don't really see how it can be. It doesn't block the air, just directs it. The swirling effect also helps to pull air entering in afterward as well. Use Zex's amplifier air filter as an example.

Originally posted by evocontour:
Some modifications don't add horsepower, but will add to MPG - you know - improve engine efficency and driveability. I don't have one personally but we did install one in a freinds 2000 stratus 2.5l v-6. Now power and seat of pants feel didn't go anywhere, but he did pick up 6-8 mpg on his daily commute to work. Of course that wasn't there when he was pounding on the car either. With gas prices going the way they are, every little bit helps. As for it being an intake restriction, I don't really see how it can be. It doesn't block the air, just directs it. The swirling effect also helps to pull air entering in afterward as well. Use Zex's amplifier air filter as an example.

Not even going to comment.

ha i was one of the dump kids and bought one for my svt and probe. IF you think they add anything even gas, your on crack. you can save gas by not reving so high and drive slower.

Originally posted by evocontour:
Now power and seat of pants feel didn't go anywhere, but he did pick up 6-8 mpg on his daily commute to work.

Riiiight.. Like I said, if a piece of bent sheet metal could really produce such amazing results, every car on the market would have one in the intake from the factory.

What really happens is, people stick those Tornado things in their intake and expect to get better gas mileage. Then they attempt to maximize the return on their investment by driving more conservatively. And in reality, THAT is what makes the difference.

A couple years ago I tried driving my Mark VIII like a sane person for a few days. I let it upshift at ~2100 rpm, I quit tromping on the gas as soon as the light turned green or I came out of a tight corner, etc. According to the trip computer I got 21.5 mpg during this experiment, whereas my normal mileage was 16.5. Drviving habits make all the difference.

Not sure, but I believe there is a patent on it. There are other companies that use similar technologies to produce horsepower gains (zex, spintech etc.) If it didn't do anything, why would they use it as well? Driving like a human being does help alot. But I am just sharing his experience with a product. Believe it or not. All I can say is that he IS saving at the gas pump now with no other changes to his motor. Has anyone else here used one that can share a story? After all you can't knock it until you try it. Look at platinum tipped spark plugs. Everyone said no to them at first. Then they found that they last for ever and now you find them in just about every car made from the factory. Maybe $60 is a bit much to plop down on a questionable item, but think about most cold air intakes. They do nil for power and in some cases (because they are not tuned for the engine properly) hurt power. But that doesn't keep people from buying them for $75 or more a piece.

There is a little known rule on CEG... you can only stick your foot in your mouth three times a day...

You're on two, already... Moderation, my friend.

I'm with the "I'm not even going to comment" crowd about this POS snake oil gimmick.

Ray

Originally posted by evocontour:
Not sure, but I believe there is a patent on it. There are other companies that use similar technologies to produce horsepower gains (zex, spintech etc.) If it didn't do anything, why would they use it as well?

If i found a company that was making a killing on selling l.e.d. exhaust tips that produced 5% more ponies you can bet id design one as well with every color led you can think of and make cool commercials for it, but it doesnt mean it works. It just means that you've found a product that less informed people will throw money at you for, kind of like one of those "tool" enlarging pills.

-ivan

Originally posted by eyevancsu:

Originally posted by evocontour:
Not sure, but I believe there is a patent on it. There are other companies that use similar technologies to produce horsepower gains (zex, spintech etc.) If it didn't do anything, why would they use it as well?

If i found a company that was making a killing on selling l.e.d. exhaust tips that produced 5% more ponies you can bet id design one as well with every color led you can think of and make cool commercials for it, but it doesnt mean it works. It just means that you've found a product that less informed people will throw money at you for, kind of like one of those "tool" enlarging pills.

-ivan

Exactly.

If someone told you that you can scoop dog crap, shove it in a box and sell it for 60 bucks, wouldn't you and every person that wanted to make money do it?

End of story.

My intention was not to conflict with everyone. I simply shared a freinds experience with a product. Now I know everyone here likes to make power. I do. More power = more fun. But there are products that improve other aspects of a engine. Things like reliability, longevity, functionality and efficency should not be overlooked as well. Not everyone on this site is looking for a gigantic leap in power. There are people looking just to get a little more out of thier vehicle. Some just want thier car to run better, Some - better economy and of course people like us want big power. Just because a product does not make 10 hp does not mean it is a piece of crap. ESPECIALLY when they don't advertise any HP gains for the product. The Tornado is designed to improve GAS MILEAGE.

And the tornado still, does NOT improve gas mileage!

Mark

After listening to everyone on here about the tornado I decided to find out if it works. My girl owns a 99' Cougar with a 2.5l duratec/auto in it. The only mods done to the car are a short tube intake and a set of weapon-r headers. She drives the car about 120 miles to and from work(on the highway). Her car usually pulls 21 MPG on the highway. I slapped one in her car without telling her and let her go with it. I told her to watch the mileage and let me know what it gets. It took a few days for her to empty the car but she told me it was getting 23.6 MPG and wanted to know what I did. I was going to take it back to the store, but she wanted it left in. She is no lead footed driver by any means. Not telling her that it was in there helped to make sure she drove normally as well. Now I know it didn't make the world stretch or make her car accelerate like a Ferrari but it made her happy and it's going to save a few bucks too.

Originally posted by evocontour:
After listening to everyone on here about the tornado I decided to find out if it works. My girl owns a 99' Cougar with a 2.5l duratec/auto in it. The only mods done to the car are a short tube intake and a set of weapon-r headers. She drives the car about 120 miles to and from work(on the highway). Her car usually pulls 21 MPG on the highway. I slapped one in her car without telling her and let her go with it. I told her to watch the mileage and let me know what it gets. It took a few days for her to empty the car but she told me it was getting 23.6 MPG and wanted to know what I did. I was going to take it back to the store, but she wanted it left in. She is no lead footed driver by any means. Not telling her that it was in there helped to make sure she drove normally as well. Now I know it didn't make the world stretch or make her car accelerate like a Ferrari but it made her happy and it's going to save a few bucks too.

....henry, you need to take a look at her cougar..21mpg on the highway is horrible,on my trip to carlisle,i was avg a touch over 30mpg...and you now how i drive

..i get about 20-21 in the city...

Originally posted by evocontour:
After listening to everyone on here about the tornado I decided to find out if it works. My girl owns a 99' Cougar with a 2.5l duratec/auto in it. The only mods done to the car are a short tube intake and a set of weapon-r headers. She drives the car about 120 miles to and from work(on the highway). Her car usually pulls 21 MPG on the highway. I slapped one in her car without telling her and let her go with it. I told her to watch the mileage and let me know what it gets. It took a few days for her to empty the car but she told me it was getting 23.6 MPG and wanted to know what I did. I was going to take it back to the store, but she wanted it left in. She is no lead footed driver by any means. Not telling her that it was in there helped to make sure she drove normally as well. Now I know it didn't make the world stretch or make her car accelerate like a Ferrari but it made her happy and it's going to save a few bucks too.

A fluctuiation of one or 2 mpg is normal. Something like 1 psi less in one tire could make that much of a difference. Even if the product did create a 2.6mpg difference, it would take a hell of a long time to make just the $60 back you paid for it. It doesn't work, and is a marketing gimmick. There are plenty of true car experts that will tell you this.

Originally posted by evocontour:
After listening to everyone on here about the tornado I decided to find out if it works. My girl owns a 99' Cougar with a 2.5l duratec/auto in it. The only mods done to the car are a short tube intake and a set of weapon-r headers. She drives the car about 120 miles to and from work(on the highway). Her car usually pulls 21 MPG on the highway. I slapped one in her car without telling her and let her go with it. I told her to watch the mileage and let me know what it gets. It took a few days for her to empty the car but she told me it was getting 23.6 MPG and wanted to know what I did. I was going to take it back to the store, but she wanted it left in. She is no lead footed driver by any means. Not telling her that it was in there helped to make sure she drove normally as well. Now I know it didn't make the world stretch or make her car accelerate like a Ferrari but it made her happy and it's going to save a few bucks too.

There's a sucker born every minute - You = SUCKER!

HEY, I WANTED TO RETURN IT!!! SHE WANTED TO KEEP IT! I just did this in a effort to see if it did work. I will pull it back out and see if the car goes back to 21 mpg. (without her knowing of course!!

)Maybe there is somthing wrong with the car, but everytime I look at it with a wrench she flips. I will have to take a good look at it. Considering that car is taken better care of than my tour'(hard to beat) I would say that the MPG is fairly accurate.

Originally posted by evocontour:
My intention was not to conflict with everyone. I simply shared a freinds experience with a product. Now I know everyone here likes to make power. I do. More power = more fun. But there are products that improve other aspects of a engine. Things like reliability, longevity, functionality and efficency should not be overlooked as well. Not everyone on this site is looking for a gigantic leap in power. There are people looking just to get a little more out of thier vehicle. Some just want thier car to run better, Some - better economy and of course people like us want big power. Just because a product does not make 10 hp does not mean it is a piece of crap. ESPECIALLY when they don't advertise any HP gains for the product. The Tornado is designed to improve GAS MILEAGE.

Improving engine efficiency results in improved mileage AND power. They are not mutually exclusive. You can't tout this BS and not have some people call you on it. THe power saved from increasing the efficiency is shown as an increase in power to drive the car.

One simple reason aside form intake restriction as to why the tornado can't make any power on our cars is that the intake tract is so long. THe airflow makes four 90 degree turns and a general turn into the head with a total distance of around 2 feet from the throttle body! ANY spiral or vortex type of flow will straighten out long before it gets fuel injected into it or enters the cylinder.

Not to mention the reduced airflow!!!!

Another thing: I notice how you imply that the tornado makes ANY power by saying we are after big power gains not just smaller increments of 10 HP or so. I think you're off by at least one or two decimal places! IF the tornado made any power it would probably be 0.1 HP.

Originally posted by evocontour:
Just because a product does not make 10 hp does not mean it is a piece of crap. ESPECIALLY when they don't advertise any HP gains for the product. The Tornado is designed to improve GAS MILEAGE.

I never stated it made ANY power. But I don't know of ANYONE who can say "yup, there's an extra 2hp there and a whole ft pound of torque" by seat of pants and it being true. So even if it did make any power on her car - which I am not sure it did - I am not going to blow $50-100 to find out by chassis dynoing it. So if the Volumetric Efficiency of the engine was improved and some power WAS unleashed I will never know. Just because an engine has a long runner intake with 4 bends in it does not mean it cannot benefit from not having to suck as hard to get the air it needs to run properly. By having the tornado installed it helps move the air along quicker so the engine does not have to work as hard to get it. The physics behind it are very simple and easy to follow. We see this kind of improvement on the engine dyno at our shop just from swapping from a smaller intake filter to a bigger one. It may be a small restriction down low, but at cruise rpms, I would think that it would have sufficent air velocity to create the vortex that would pull air past it more quickly and create a vaccum effect. We are expecting a b16a honda engine in a few weeks for a buildup and dyno test (we don't see alot of anything under a v-8 in the shop). I could try one on that engine to see what it really produces. Anyone interested? I mean if I am going to keep getting bashed for this I will just stop

. But If there is anyone who is truly interested in knowing, I will do a few pulls with it.

Don't waste your time dyno testing it. We had a couple customers come in with that crap in the intake. The first thing we do after they include it in their 'mod list' is take them out. It COSTS you about 5hp on the dyno. We already tested it more than once.

The best thing to do with a tornado is when you first get it, and it's nice and shiny, is to throw it in the dumpster. My .02.

Originally posted by evocontour:

Originally posted by evocontour:
Just because a product does not make 10 hp does not mean it is a piece of crap. ESPECIALLY when they don't advertise any HP gains for the product. The Tornado is designed to improve GAS MILEAGE.

I never stated it made ANY power. But I don't know of ANYONE who can say "yup, there's an extra 2hp there and a whole ft pound of torque" by seat of pants and it being true. So even if it did make any power on her car - which I am not sure it did - I am not going to blow $50-100 to find out by chassis dynoing it. So if the Volumetric Efficiency of the engine was improved and some power WAS unleashed I will never know. Just because an engine has a long runner intake with 4 bends in it does not mean it cannot benefit from not having to suck as hard to get the air it needs to run properly. By having the tornado installed it helps move the air along quicker so the engine does not have to work as hard to get it. The physics behind it are very simple and easy to follow. We see this kind of improvement on the engine dyno at our shop just from swapping from a smaller intake filter to a bigger one. It may be a small restriction down low, but at cruise rpms, I would think that it would have sufficent air velocity to create the vortex that would pull air past it more quickly and create a vaccum effect. We are expecting a b16a honda engine in a few weeks for a buildup and dyno test (we don't see alot of anything under a v-8 in the shop). I could try one on that engine to see what it really produces. Anyone interested? I mean if I am going to keep getting bashed for this I will just stop . But If there is anyone who is truly interested in knowing, I will do a few pulls with it.

I highlighted two anomalies in your statement. Read them then read below.

You appear to be friggin DENSE, I am wasting my time talking to you!
HOW CAN YOU IMAGINE THAT ANY KIND OF TURN IN THE AIRFLOW WILL HELP IT MOVE ALONG QUICKER?
Are you able to drive faster in a turn than you can in a straight line? I know I can't.
Air has mass and in a turn it too will tend to slow to change pressures and so on and so forth.
Reducing the diameter will speed it up through the restriction ONLY after which it will slow back down to the same dynamic velocity. Bernoullis principal at work. It will also decrease flow and increase power required to pump the air.

This means at only certain rpms you can increase air velocity and cylinder filling but at any rpm higher than this you will choke off the cylinder airflow and starve the engine for air. You need to understand that your peak power can only be made at high rpm, period.
Also, increasing cylinder filling even if at low rpm with your device will require more fuel to add to the air if it is to remain at stoichiometric ratio. How does adding more fuel to this so called "increased airflow" result in less fuel used? Power requires more fuel and air. Greater efficiency extracts more work out of the same fuel and air, getting more power out of the same fuel and air. See a problem here?

I have some stuff I need to sell, are you interested?

Actually, I'd like to see an honest comparison of say 3 pulls without the tornado and then 3 pulls with the tornado with all other variables remaining as equal as possible; to include the same day and relative part of the day (i.e. morning). Of course if you're doing it the results will be suspect so having some independent tester with you paying for it would be the most believable.

BTW, I know I'm sounding a bit irritated and aggressive. Normally I'm an open minded and peacefull guy. I got no problems with you personnally, just the bad info. IF you can support your claims with some facts then it would help.

Not trying to get you going. Can't argue with the general principles of how air travels(Bernoulli). The tornado reguardless is a restriction (no arguement). There are others out ther like AIRAID that produce the swirl without the restriction. If you mix the air with the fuel more(better atomization), you will get a more complete burn and a better flame front which makes for a smoother burn. So it is possible to pull more from the same charge being burned. If we were completely burning the air/fuel mixture we would have almost nothing for emissions. With dry intake manifolds on multiport engines, a swirl like this would have a minimal effect due to the air not actually mixing with the fuel as much as a wet manifold setup (TBI and carb's). The machine does print out the results. I think we can spot where I might have used a pen to correct the curve...

. I can get the dyno time for free if the engine is already hooked up. I just can't see spending money on somthing this trivial (an outside firm)especially since I don't have it to waste right now.

Keyser, Warmonger, isn't the HP increase that the tornado "supposedly" provides, within a dynos error percentage????

Then dynoing would not be worth it......One of my friends tried using the tornado and lost 5MPG in his 2.5 cougar...piece of junk if you ask me.

On top of that Warmonger is right....the tornado's fins act like a restriction as the air is forced to slow down when it hits them in order to be redirected into the slots of the tornado....you cannot deny the common laws of physics. Preach the tornado all you want...the supposed dyno gains and gas millage is neglagable.

Lupe

Long time, no see, Roz... Where have you been hiding, or have I just not been looking hard enough?

Ray

really i dont know what you guys are talking about. my tornado increased my mpg by 25 and hp/tq is up 35 respectivly.

then again i also put a resistor into my maf so maybe that helped the numbers too.

lmao....i have been on NECO latly because i went to CougarFest with NorcalCoug...so i have been talking to a lot of friends i have meet over there....

Im just shocked someone noticed i was missing..lol...

But on a side note i have also been looking for some new parts for the Hybrid and the new Jeep Liberty i bought.

SO i'v been busy moding my cars too....But since PnP and finding (or making) custom ground cams for the 3 liter is a long and hard process, i managed to find some time to help put people in there place.

Lupe