Question about girdle bolts...

Contour Enthusiasts Group Archives

Alright, I'll try to explain this best I can. I finally started to put the engine back together (03' Taurus) and everything is good so far, but I noticed some bolts I ordered are different from those I removed from the engine.

This first picture shows the difference in bolts, one is studed and the new one I ordered isn't.

The thing is though, if memory serves me right, the pickup bracket is secured on to one of the holes where one of these bolts would go.

I don't remember exactly, if the pickup bracket went onto one of the mainbolt studs, then a nut secured the bracket to it or not. And the new bolts, don't even have the stud on them, and these are the correct bolts according to the FAQ (yes, I'm one of few who have atually read them) and according to Bill J. (I'm currently trying to find a service cd for an 02'/03')
Anyways, I need a way to secure the pickup bracket, and I didn't know if I was suppose to just attatch the bolt over the bracket and torque it or not. (honestly, that doesnt sound right to me)
So, if any of ya have a hint or wrench to knock some sense into the back of my head for me, I'd appreciate it.

Read this thread!

Studs/Bolts
Qty 4 YL8Z-6345-AA = $4.97 each (9-10-11-12 in diagram)
Qty 4 YL8Z-6345-BA = $5.87 each (5-6-7-8 in diagram)
Qty 4 F5RZ-6345-D = $3.57 each (13-14-15-16 in diagram)
Qty 5 F5RZ-6345-C = $2.57 each (1-2-3-4-17 in diagram)
Qty 5 F5RZ-6345-E = $5.08 each (18-19-20-21-22 in diagram) - sold in package of 2

Nuts (hold windage tray/oil pickup tube in place)
If you have an 01+ block already, these nuts can be reused!
Qty 4 W701542S309 = $5.05 each - (sold in packs of 6)
Qty 4 W701582S309 = $1.13 each

Then why in the Stickies does it say...
Lower cylinder block retaining bolts:
F5RZ-6345-C need 4
F5RZ-6345-D need 8
F5RZ-6345-E need 5
F6DZ-6345-CA need 5

And When I asked Bill J for all the girdle bolts he sent me those exact part #'s?

I guess thats where part of my confusion is. Thanks for the last post though.

I updated my previous post with the correct information ... please reread. I just finished doing this not on one, not two, but three times (my "race" block, DanG's & my current 3L) ... I'm pretty sure I have the right #'s

Haha...yea. Thanks for the post. Got em' ordered. Appreciate it!

You ordered the non-revised studs.

All Duratec engines require the revised studs to use the revised (YL8Z) oil pickup and windage tray. (All 01+ engines come with these revisions)

Originally posted by DemonSVT:
You ordered the non-revised studs.

All Duratec engines require the revised studs to use the revised (YL8Z) oil pickup and windage tray. (All 01+ engines come with these revisions)

If you don't order the revised bolts does it make the pick up tube support bracket off a bit?

I think that's what I might have done....

There are several differences in the revised/non-revised windage trays/bolts/oil pump pickups.

The revised tray uses 4 center studs as well as 4 outside studs that are similar to the old style, but actually have the bolt portion of the studd the same thickness as the bolt portion of the center studs. This allows the windage tray to mount evenly at 8 points. The pickup tube is also different since it mounts to one of the center studs in the revised design. Also, the Escape pickup is the one you want to use for the revised tray. If you buy or try to use the taurus/sable pickup for the revised tray, it will not fit the oil pan due to the pickup being set deeper into the pan on those vehicles.

The non-revised tray uses 5 small studs on the outer portion of the girdle (I refer to them as the secondary main studs). The oil pump pickup mounts to one of these studs on the old style. This is the style we have on all contours and is fine for re-use if you don't want to spend the additional money to buy a new pickup tube if you bought a taurus motor in lieu of an Escape motor.

Rick

Originally posted by RTStabler51:

Originally posted by DemonSVT:
You ordered the non-revised studs.

All Duratec engines require the revised studs to use the revised (YL8Z) oil pickup and windage tray. (All 01+ engines come with these revisions)

If you don't order the revised bolts does it make the pick up tube support bracket off a bit?

I think that's what I might have done....

IIRC I had to cut and bend and redrill mine.

Originally posted by RTStabler51:

Originally posted by DemonSVT:
You ordered the non-revised studs.

All Duratec engines require the revised studs to use the revised (YL8Z) oil pickup and windage tray. (All 01+ engines come with these revisions)

If you don't order the revised bolts does it make the pick up tube support bracket off a bit?

I think that's what I might have done....

It would make it off noticeably and likely cause oil starvation.

{soap box}
It would not be the first time this happened either. For some reason many foolish people bend the stock pickup bracket or just cut it off instead of spending the $15 to get the correct pickup.

You can imagine the number of oil starvation failures that SNAFU caused.

You would not believe the excuses and places they put the blame too...

Delicately put...as usual.

Originally posted by DemonSVT:

Originally posted by RTStabler51:

Originally posted by DemonSVT:
You ordered the non-revised studs.

All Duratec engines require the revised studs to use the revised (YL8Z) oil pickup and windage tray. (All 01+ engines come with these revisions)

If you don't order the revised bolts does it make the pick up tube support bracket off a bit?

I think that's what I might have done....

It would make it off noticeably and likely cause oil starvation.

{soap box}
It would not be the first time this happened either. For some reason many foolish people bend the stock pickup bracket or just cut it off instead of spending the $15 to get the correct pickup. You can imagine the number of oil starvation failures that SNAFU caused. You would not believe the excuses and places they put the blame too...

Hmm, I cut mine off, at the time I just said 'f it'. I have 9k on the motor so far, with a mech pressure gauge and she seems to be all right. I plan on fixing it in the near future. *slaps self*

I do believe Terry posted on this issue a long time ago saying that the support was added after testing. It seems the tubes were breaking where they were brazed to the mounting flange that bolts to the oil pump. So, if you cut off the support, you're working with a timebomb.

Rick

TH...not a good idea.During the early development of the
2.5 V6,between the Porsche and Ford stage,it was found
that the oil pickup(un-braced at that time) would
suffer harmonic vibration and would,during extended
durability testing,cause the brazed tube connections
to crack at the flange to the oil pump and in some
cases the pickup cone/screen connection.This would
cause air to be drawn iinto the lube system and,in
very bad cases,total loss of draw to the oil pump.The
brace was added to prevent this.But hey,WTF do engine
engineers know about engine design and durability
testing!....Get a new puckup,the correct bolt and do
the damm job right....If you want to be an engine
engineer then go to school an proove it,don't be a
hack!

Damn my memory is good! Now where the hell are my keys and what's my name.....

Originally posted by Buckshot77:
I do believe Terry posted on this issue a long time ago saying that the support was added after testing. It seems the tubes were breaking where they were brazed to the mounting flange that bolts to the oil pump. So, if you cut off the support, you're working with a timebomb.

Rick

I realized that after I put the motor together, but shortly there after broke the clutch/tranny. I'll be fixing it soon.

Originally posted by todras:
TH...not a good idea.During the early development of the
2.5 V6,between the Porsche and Ford stage,it was found
that the oil pickup(un-braced at that time) would
suffer harmonic vibration and would,during extended
durability testing,cause the brazed tube connections
to crack at the flange to the oil pump and in some
cases the pickup cone/screen connection.This would
cause air to be drawn iinto the lube system and,in
very bad cases,total loss of draw to the oil pump.The
brace was added to prevent this.But hey,WTF do engine
engineers know about engine design and durability
testing!....Get a new puckup,the correct bolt and do
the damm job right....If you want to be an engine
engineer then go to school an proove it,don't be a
hack!

It is great to see that Terry has not changed a bit. I always enjoyed his posts and it was a treat talking to him on the few occasions that I did. Terry FTW.

Originally posted by todras:
.But hey,WTF do engine
engineers know about engine design and durability
testing!....

hopefully more than the tranny engineers know!

Hahahaha!