Contour Enthusiasts Group Archives
Posted By: Steeda. Lightweight 18's - 02/23/06 05:20 PM
These are the same rims I had on my SHO, If i got them in the silver instead of gunmetal do you think they would look better than the Konigs i have now?



opps
Posted By: snakous Re: Lightweight 18's - 02/23/06 05:28 PM
I think your current wheels look pretty good. But the same 18s that you have on your SHO would look killer in silver. I guess it's up to you, but I would probably stick with what you got.

And hooray for posting the same pic twice!
Posted By: Y2KSVT Re: Lightweight 18's - 02/23/06 07:13 PM
I guess I'm not digging the Koenig's. They look tiny! With a mesh style wheel, you've gotta go BIG, to get the affect that they actually are big.

16"s look like 14"s
17"s look like 16"s
18"s look between 17" & 18"
19"s look like 19"s

Mark
Posted By: rkneeshaw Re: Lightweight 18's - 02/23/06 09:06 PM
I like what you have on there. Besides, do you want your two cars to have the same wheels? they'll look like a pair of twinkies!
Posted By: Steeda. Re: Lightweight 18's - 02/23/06 09:29 PM
LOL i don't have the SHO anymore soo I don't know

Think IM gonna get some new rims tonight though
Posted By: Tour_Racer00 Re: Lightweight 18's - 02/24/06 04:22 AM
Personally I like the multi spoke better than the 5
Posted By: Kremithefrog Re: Lightweight 18's - 02/24/06 04:39 AM
The wheels on the SHO look like cheapos.
Posted By: DemonSVT_dup1 Re: Lightweight 18's - 02/24/06 05:22 AM
Needs more rotor! Much less performance robbing bling bling.

I like the multi-spoke better as well. Just not in 18's.
Posted By: Steeda. Re: Lightweight 18's - 02/24/06 05:50 AM
ya 15 pound wheels def preformace robbing!


Posted By: Steeda. Re: Lightweight 18's - 02/24/06 05:50 AM
Originally posted by SVTfrog:
The wheels on the SHO look like cheapos.




ya ADR freakin cheap let me tell you
Posted By: GreaseyMonkey Re: Lightweight 18's - 02/27/06 04:18 AM
definitely go with the ones you had on your SHO. in silver.
and if you don't.. tell me what they are so i can get them.
Posted By: Kremithefrog Re: Lightweight 18's - 02/28/06 01:02 AM
Originally posted by SteedaSVTââ??¢:
Originally posted by SVTfrog:
The wheels on the SHO look like cheapos.




ya ADR freakin cheap let me tell you



I said they LOOK like cheapos, and it's just my opinion. Though ADR aren't exactly some real expensive wheels.
Posted By: Steeda. Re: Lightweight 18's - 02/28/06 03:43 AM
Originally posted by SVTfrog:
Originally posted by SteedaSVTââ??¢:
Originally posted by SVTfrog:
The wheels on the SHO look like cheapos.




ya ADR freakin cheap let me tell you



I said they LOOK like cheapos, and it's just my opinion. Though ADR aren't exactly some real expensive wheels.




You look like a Cheapo Get it!
Posted By: The Five-Oh! Re: Lightweight 18's - 02/28/06 03:59 AM
i got some lightweight 18's, for sale.
Posted By: Steeda. Re: Lightweight 18's - 02/28/06 05:01 AM
supers might be the ugliest wheel ever!
Posted By: DemonSVT_dup1 Rotational Inertia - 02/28/06 05:46 PM
Originally posted by SteedaSVTââ??¢:
ya 15 pound wheels def preformace robbing!



They are actually and you just don't know it.

Stock E1 = 19.5lbs
225/50 Falkien = 22lbs
Total = 41.5lbs

Your 18" rims = 15lbs
235/35/18 XXX = 25lbs
Total = 40lbs

However the bulk of the weight is where? Exactly, it is at the furthest point out radially from the center. This increases it's moment of inertia exponentially.


The E1 Falkien combo requires 14.48 lb/ft of torque (per tire) to rotate and stop rotating.

The 18" combo requires 16.41 lb/ft of torque (per tire) to rotate and stop rotating.

That is a 13.3% increase in torque required even though the "combo" weighs 1.5lbs less. That will be directly tied to the car's acceleration and braking ability.

How does this apply to acceleration and braking? The car's ability to accelerate & brake (rate of speed change) is a factor in how much difference the change in torque required makes.

For instance using 0-60mph times (in seconds) and comparing it to changes in the total chassis weight.

7 sec = 70lb heavier chassis
6 sec = 80lb heavier chassis
5 sec = 100lb heavier chassis

Now for braking times 60-0.

Stock 132 feet (3 sec) = 165lbs heavier
124 feet (2.8 sec) = 180lbs heavier
116 feet (2.6 sec) = 200lbs heavier

So if I were to run those same "light weight" 18's my car would perform "roughly" as if it were 100lbs heavier when accelerating and 200lbs heavier when it was braking.

So just being lighter means next to nothing at all unless you do the math behind your changes. I stand by my first statement.
This is also the main reason I never went to 17" rims. In order for a 17" rim combo to not hurt my performance the combo would have to weigh about 35lbs.

I used 3150lbs as the vehicle weight (with driver) for all my calculations. A heavier car would slightly raise those results and a lighter one would slightly lower them.
Posted By: Blue Goose Re: Rotational Inertia - 02/28/06 06:12 PM
Very well put. i think somebody did good in physics, as I have no idea about any of that stuff and the way you presented it made it sound simple!!! Never knew it was that much of a performance rob.
Posted By: Mod-deth Re: Rotational Inertia - 02/28/06 06:20 PM
Originally posted by DemonSVT:
Originally posted by SteedaSVTââ??¢:
ya 15 pound wheels def preformace robbing!



They are actually and you just don't know it.

Stock E1 = 19.5lbs
225/50 Falkien = 22lbs
Total = 41.5lbs

Your 18" rims = 15lbs
235/35/18 XXX = 25lbs
Total = 40lbs

However the bulk of the weight is where? Exactly, it is at the furthest point out radially from the center. This increases it's moment of inertia exponentially.


The E1 Falkien combo requires 14.48 lb/ft of torque (per tire) to rotate and stop rotating.

The 18" combo requires 16.41 lb/ft of torque (per tire) to rotate and stop rotating.

That is a 13.3% increase in torque required even though the "combo" weighs 1.5lbs less. That will be directly tied to the car's acceleration and braking ability.

How does this apply to acceleration and braking? The car's ability to accelerate & brake (rate of speed change) is a factor in how much difference the change in torque required makes.

For instance using 0-60mph times (in seconds) and comparing it to changes in the total chassis weight.

7 sec = 70lb heavier chassis
6 sec = 80lb heavier chassis
5 sec = 100lb heavier chassis

Now for braking times 60-0.

Stock 132 feet (3 sec) = 165lbs heavier
124 feet (2.8 sec) = 180lbs heavier
116 feet (2.6 sec) = 200lbs heavier

So if I were to run those same "light weight" 18's my car would perform "roughly" as if it were 100lbs heavier when accelerating and 200lbs heavier when it was braking.

So just being lighter means next to nothing at all unless you do the math behind your changes. I stand by my first statement.
This is also the main reason I never went to 17" rims. In order for a 17" rim combo to not hurt my performance the combo would have to weigh about 35lbs.

I used 3150lbs as the vehicle weight (with driver) for all my calculations. A heavier car would slightly raise those results and a lighter one would slightly lower them.




Not in anyway disregarding what was written, but in all probability he's gonna run 225/40/18s on them.

Falken 512's in that size weigh 21.6lbs.

So now the combined weight is 36.6lbs.

Much closer to your "stock" comparison.

The 235/35/18/tire needs a recommended min width of 8" rims, which we've all pretty much decided will rub.
Posted By: Steeda. Re: Rotational Inertia - 02/28/06 08:38 PM
Good write up demon but what tire brand is Falkien
Posted By: Kremithefrog Re: Rotational Inertia - 03/01/06 01:15 AM
Originally posted by Mod-Deth:

The 235/35/18/tire needs a recommended min width of 8" rims, which we've all pretty much decided will rub.



Needs and recommended aren't the same thing.

I'd have no problem fitting 235s to a 7" wheel. I'd prefer 7.5" or 8" but it's plenty doable on 7". And an 8" wheel won't necessarily rub. Offset is important, as are some other things. And you can always trim parts/roll the fenders for whatever rubbing occurs.
Posted By: DemonSVT_dup1 Re: Rotational Inertia - 03/01/06 04:15 AM
Originally posted by Mod-Deth:
Not in anyway disregarding what was written, but in all probability he's gonna run 225/40/18s on them.

Falken 512's in that size weigh 21.6lbs.

So now the combined weight is 36.6lbs.



True the 512 is an ultralight tire. There are 225/40's that weigh over 28lbs as well. Tire choice plays a large factor in the end results.

Using that 37lb 18" combo it would be.

+35 lbs accelerating
+90 lbs braking

Using a 28lb tire (43lb combo) it would be.

+245 lbs accelerating
+470 lbs braking

Yes tire weight is paramount to this type of calculation.
Posted By: Kremithefrog Re: Rotational Inertia - 03/01/06 06:04 AM
Gearing changes from different tire sizes will also affect acceleration numbers (to a much lesser degree than weight). Just something to keep in mind (not that you didn't already know Demon).

Here's something neat:
http://the-welters.com/racing/rotational.html
Posted By: bxd20_dup1 Re: Rotational Inertia - 03/01/06 04:39 PM
This thread got me thinking and searching for tire weights.

I can't believe the Kumho Ecsta ASX is so nice and light.

Kumho - 23 lbs
Yoko H4S - 25 lbs
Avon M550 A/S - 27 lbs

in 225/45-17.

According to an inertia calc I downloaded, each of those 2 lb increases is like having an extra 60 lbs riding around in your car! Wow.

Are these Ecstas really that light?????? That's a couple pounds lighter than most 16" tires by other brands. Data was from TireRack.

Brian
Posted By: Big Daddy Kane Re: Rotational Inertia - 03/04/06 02:22 PM
Originally posted by DemonSVT:
Stock E1 = 19.5lbs
225/50 Falkien = 22lbs
Total = 41.5lbs

Your 18" rims = 15lbs
235/35/18 XXX = 25lbs
Total = 40lbs

The E1 Falkien combo requires 14.48 lb/ft of torque (per tire) to rotate and stop rotating.

The 18" combo requires 16.41 lb/ft of torque (per tire) to rotate and stop rotating.




So what you're saying is... these are not a good choice for my lawnmower? Because I was under the impression that a 16" or 18" wheel would look pretty snazzy on there.
Posted By: BlueMystique_dup1 Re: Rotational Inertia - 03/04/06 03:50 PM
Originally posted by bxd20:

According to an inertia calc I downloaded,





Where did you get that inertia calc?
Posted By: hmouta_dup1 Re: Rotational Inertia - 03/21/06 05:18 AM
edgeracing lists some tires weights. t1s 215/4517 they have as 20lbs.
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