FSVT brakes - CEG Archives

Baer = 13" rotors and 2 piston calipers.
SVT brakes = 12" rotors and single piston calipers.

That's what I've gathered, other than price.

I'm taking Swazo's advice and looking at car-parts.com. I've come across some CHEAP parts through there!

Mark

Funk Baer, go TCE Wilwood, they are lighter and and you'll have Todd to give you customer service, they are also close in price IIRC.

you can get a set of FSVT calipers for $100 on car-part.com ....you might want to make sure they come with brackets tho.....

For fluid, the Ford HD fluid is very good, and is dirt cheap. ATE blue is also very good, but a little more pricey; beyond those and you really start spending a lot of cash for fluid you don't need in a street car. Stay away from the Valvoline Synpower stuff.

Also, I'm not a huge fan of the Baer kit, if I was putting a different setup on my car (well if I didn't design my own) I'd go for the Wilwood setup from TCE, performance is great, and the support is excellent too.

Damn! I just used the Synpower, Is there a problem with using it or is the Ford stuff just better?

valvoline synpower thread
rara says it is bad and demon says it is bad

Originally posted by JB1:
valvoline synpower thread
rara says it is bad and demon says it is bad

Actually rara says he suspects it of not keeping out moisture very well. (he had "dirty looking" fluid IIRC)

Big Jim, myself, and others have never had that problem with it. I've used it for years with great success. I do change my fluid every year to year & a half. (like you should do anyway)

Originally posted by DemonSVT:

Originally posted by JB1:
valvoline synpower thread
rara says it is bad and demon says it is bad

Actually rara says he suspects it of not keeping out moisture very well. (he had "dirty looking" fluid IIRC)

Big Jim, myself, and others have never had that problem with it. I've used it for years with great success. I do change my fluid every year to year & a half. (like you should do anyway)

sorry demon, typo, that should read not bad. i am running it currently with no problems just as i have run it in the past with no problems.

Originally posted by Rara:
You also need longer bolts. do a search, I believe shaggy posted up the p/n that I dug up for him some time ago.

Nope. There's no need for longer bolts. There's plenty of meat left on the stockers to do the job. Do a test fit with the spacers and the stock bolts and you'll see what i mean. You'd save yourself ~$40. FWIW i've been running stock bolts for 2+ years.

The TCE kits are great [$1000-1600 max], but can be almost double the price of the Baers [$750 max] and the BAT Wilwoods [$650 max]!

Originally posted by DemonSVT:

Originally posted by JB1:
valvoline synpower thread
rara says it is bad and demon says it is bad

Actually rara says he suspects it of not keeping out moisture very well. (he had "dirty looking" fluid IIRC)

Big Jim, myself, and others have never had that problem with it. I've used it for years with great success. I do change my fluid every year to year & a half. (like you should do anyway)

No, I said I had a very soft pedal after 2 months of it. Another friend with an S4 had almost identical results with it, and he's on the other end of the country.

The fluid didn't look dirty.

Originally posted by TGO:

Originally posted by Rara:
You also need longer bolts. do a search, I believe shaggy posted up the p/n that I dug up for him some time ago.

Nope. There's no need for longer bolts. There's plenty of meat left on the stockers to do the job. Do a test fit with the spacers and the stock bolts and you'll see what i mean. You'd save yourself ~$40. FWIW i've been running stock bolts for 2+ years.

IIRC you don't get full thread engagement through the anchor bracket that way. Will it function? sure; but is it the right way to do it? no. It's only a few bucks for the right bolts, there isn't any reason to do it halfway.

Ford should have equipped the SVT Tour with these brakes from the get go. I just did this swap like a month ago and at a cost of about $450 calipers/rotors new from Ford after returning the calipers for a core.

I reused the bolts with no problems, used 3mm thick stainless steel washers there is plenty of thread engagement with the OE bolts IMO.

Plus OE SVT wheels clear them.

Originally posted by SVTGT350:
Plus OE SVT wheels clear them.

That is exactly what I wanted to hear. I guess I'll add that to my spring mod list.

-tropictour

Originally posted by SVTGT350:
I reused the bolts with no problems, used 3mm thick stainless steel washers there is plenty of thread engagement with the OE bolts IMO.

Thank you. When I did the swap i had 5 other CEG'ers telling me the stock bolts would be fine...i was the paranoid one.

I have had the Focus SVT brakes on for a long time and I open track the [censored] out of my car. I got one of the first sets back in the day from Bill @ Sentry I think, back then.

I have since been through the stock pads/rotors and am now on some Napa replacement rotors and Carbotech pads. I went through some crappy Hawk HPS's in 1 track day! They suck for the track but would make an OK street pad. The stock FSVT pad actually works well and is worth getting the caliper "loaded."

You WILL need longer bolts. I ran with the stock bolts for awhile but DID break them eventually under quite "spirited" driving (AutoX, Open Track). I upgraded to longer Metric 10.9 bolts and they have been fine since.

The FSVT brakes work great! I love them! They seem to find the limits of the tire easier as well as taking the heat much better with more surface area. I can get like 3-4 track days (16-20 20 minute + sessions) before the rotors are done and pads toast. Much better then what I got out of the stock SVT stuff! I may look into a setup custom made with Alcon calipers and Stasis 2 piece rotors. Should be intresting. Also talking to Ohlins about some one off coilovers. We'll see!

Originally posted by Y2KSVT:
Baer = 13" rotors and 2 piston calipers.
SVT brakes = 12" rotors and single piston calipers.

That's what I've gathered, other than price.

I'm taking Swazo's advice and looking at car-parts.com. I've come across some CHEAP parts through there!

Mark

Try BAT on the rotors. $50 a piece I think. Not sure what brand they are though.

Originally posted by [Email:
Chad@ForcedFed][/Email] I have had the Focus SVT brakes on for a long time and I open track the [censored] out of my car. I got one of the first sets back in the day from Bill @ Sentry I think, back then.

I have since been through the stock pads/rotors and am now on some Napa replacement rotors and Carbotech pads. I went through some crappy Hawk HPS's in 1 track day! They suck for the track but would make an OK street pad. The stock FSVT pad actually works well and is worth getting the caliper "loaded."

You WILL need longer bolts. I ran with the stock bolts for awhile but DID break them eventually under quite "spirited" driving (AutoX, Open Track). I upgraded to longer Metric 10.9 bolts and they have been fine since.

The FSVT brakes work great! I love them! They seem to find the limits of the tire easier as well as taking the heat much better with more surface area. I can get like 3-4 track days (16-20 20 minute + sessions) before the rotors are done and pads toast. Much better then what I got out of the stock SVT stuff! I may look into a setup custom made with Alcon calipers and Stasis 2 piece rotors. Should be intresting. Also talking to Ohlins about some one off coilovers. We'll see!

Its good to hear you're still interested in tracking the contour. For a while it sounded like you wanted to step up to something different. I love seeing your silver frost on thunderhill. You should keep doing it, just toss some more power at it!

At least I think thats your svt, i may be mistaken...

Any one have pics? i am also interested in doing the FSVT brakes mainly because they clear the FSVT rims that i already have and i really dont want to add wheel spacers.

so any pics?

Search the pics and vids section for when stazi posted up his new 19s. He has FSVT brakes (Im pretty sure he does anyway).

I'd be interested to see some pics with some 16" or 17" wheels. With 19" wheels, even 12" rotors look tiny!

All the pics I try to pull up from searches, are now Red X's. Anyone have pics of their FSVT brakes with 16" or 17" wheels???

Mark

Well Stazi used to have my 18's, so if you find those you can use your imagination and subtract 1/2" on each side.

Originally posted by Y2KSVT:
FSVT brakes with 17" wheels???

Mark

if you're looking to see how they fill the wheel, check out a pic of an svt focus....

Originally posted by pole120:

Originally posted by Y2KSVT:
FSVT brakes with 17" wheels???

Mark

if you're looking to see how they fill the wheel, check out a pic of an svt focus....

Or that. Wow, really missed the obvious on that one!

Originally posted by KingpinSVT:

Originally posted by pole120:

Originally posted by Y2KSVT:
FSVT brakes with 17" wheels???

Mark

if you're looking to see how they fill the wheel, check out a pic of an svt focus....

Or that. Wow, really missed the obvious on that one!

D'oh!! This thread needs more thinking on my part!!

Mark

Originally posted by Chad@ForcedFed:
You WILL need longer bolts. I ran with the stock bolts for awhile but DID break them eventually under quite "spirited" driving (AutoX, Open Track). I upgraded to longer Metric 10.9 bolts and they have been fine since.

im curious to know where they broke

Just doing a little searching, and I think I've come up with the best/cheapest solution. I'd rather not rely on a junkyard sending me rotors and pads in like-new condition, but I wouldn't mind them sending me some calipers for cheap. So I think I'll just go with some calipers from car-parts.com, and order brand new rotors and pads from BAT for $139.00 for the front set!! Makes me want to put the car away for storage early, as I'm not going to worry about this until winter.

Mark

i should have searched, damn nazis

Awesome pic! Thanks Golden! That gives us a good idea of what they'll look like, as most of the people running aftermarket wheels are going 17". You can tell that a 16" will also clear it pretty well. I can't wait to do this upgrade!

Anyone know if any other kits will work for the rear? I know TCE has a big rotor upgrade, but is that our only option?

Mark

The FSVT brakes totally fill the stock E1's. There is very little gap between the calipers and the wheels... a good fit.

yea looks real nice...the 18's look ok too, but the rear = dayum!

Rara has verified that an E1 caliper will work (from the pinned topic) but has anyone tried using a E0 caliper on the FSVT rotors?

Originally posted by Rara:
You can use the FSVT anchor bracket with the contour caliper. The only differences from the full FSVT brake swap, is you pull the stock anchor bracket out, and slide the FSVT one into the stock caliper

From what I've gathered, the E1 calipers will "work", but won't give as much braking surface, as they aren't as tall of a caliper as the FSVT's.

Originally posted by mtxcontour97se:
Rara has verified that an E1 caliper will work (from the pinned topic) but has anyone tried using a E0 caliper on the FSVT rotors?

Originally posted by Rara:
You can use the FSVT anchor bracket with the contour caliper. The only differences from the full FSVT brake swap, is you pull the stock anchor bracket out, and slide the FSVT one into the stock caliper

Mark

So is the E1 caliper the same as the 2000 se sport caliper?

Originally posted by Y2KSVT:
From what I've gathered, the E1 calipers will "work", but won't give as much braking surface, as they aren't as tall of a caliper as the FSVT's.

Originally posted by mtxcontour97se:
Rara has verified that an E1 caliper will work (from the pinned topic) but has anyone tried using a E0 caliper on the FSVT rotors?

Originally posted by Rara:
You can use the FSVT anchor bracket with the contour caliper. The only differences from the full FSVT brake swap, is you pull the stock anchor bracket out, and slide the FSVT one into the stock caliper

Mark

Don't quote me, but I don't believe so. I would think that the SE calipers wouldn't allow for enough pad to rotor surface, as the SVT rotors are quite a bit larger than the SE.

Originally posted by GoldenTour:
So is the E1 caliper the same as the 2000 se sport caliper?

Originally posted by Y2KSVT:
From what I've gathered, the E1 calipers will "work", but won't give as much braking surface, as they aren't as tall of a caliper as the FSVT's.

Originally posted by mtxcontour97se:
Rara has verified that an E1 caliper will work (from the pinned topic) but has anyone tried using a E0 caliper on the FSVT rotors?

Originally posted by Rara:
You can use the FSVT anchor bracket with the contour caliper. The only differences from the full FSVT brake swap, is you pull the stock anchor bracket out, and slide the FSVT one into the stock caliper

Mark

Mark

My bad! i missed it when i first read it.
it seems as though the calipers are the same, just different rotor used

From the Brakes-FAQ
What are the differences in stock front braking systems?
Calipers types(two types):
-Type A calipers are on all Contiques, Cougars, and late model SVT Contours. The pads for these calipers are thin and long compared to Type B. This caliper has two mounting brakets, one for 260mm rotors and one for 278mm rotors.
-Type B calipers are only on early model SVT Contours. The pads for these calipers are shorter and wider than Type A.
* The date in which SVT Contours switched from Type B to Type A is unclear. Some say early in the '99 MY others say in late 98.5 MY and evidence suggests it wasn't quite clear to Ford either. The best way to find out is by comparing your pads to the pics in the http://www.batinc.net Contour/Cougar catalogue.
** Which Type is better has been debated but no hard evidence has settled the dispute. Type A has a greater swept area while Type B physically covers more of the rotor. Type A does have a better pad selection.

Good find! I retract my previous statement then. I guess the bracket is what makes the different for the SVT and the non SVT rotors.

Mark

rara said the stock caliper would work, but needs a different mounting bracket to make it fit over the SVT F rotor.

The cost to do that is simply not worth it, since you can get both rotors and calipers new from bill for less than $400.

Yup close to 400

from Bill

You will need the front calipers (come with pads, brackets), Rotors, and 4 bolts. You will also need 3mm hardened washers that you can get locally.

2M5Z-2B120-AA List $173.35 Inet $128.45 Core $70.00 (calipers)

2M5Z-2B121-AA List $173.35 Inet $128.45 Core $70.00 (calipers)

2M5Z-1125-AA List $99.27 Inet $73.56 each x 2 (rotors)

W500443-S426 List $2.19 Inet $1.35 each x 4 (bolts)

S&H is about $15-20, these are HEAVY!

Bill Jenkins

Internet Sales

did anyone say if the eo calipers would work, the would give you more surface area than the e1's.

Will our E1 calipers work for a core?
-tropictour

Originally posted by BSOELMAN:
did anyone say if the eo calipers would work, the would give you more surface area than the e1's.

So far as I know, everyone has fully swapped to the FSVT calipers to use the FSVT rotors. I only know of a single case where someone has taken the later SVT/Cougar calipers, and used the FSVT anchor brackets to accomodate the FSVT rotor. That case is on my car. I took FSVT rotors, anchor brackets, and pads, along with the hardened washers and longer bolts, and put them on my car using the stock SVT caliper housings. The only catch to this is that the FSVT pad backing plate needs to be modified slightly to fit the housing properly. Well, the other catch is that this swap makes sense only if you can source the FSVT anchor brackets seperately; and since they only come from Ford as part of a complete caliper assembly, it doesn't make much sense for anyone else to do what I did, whether you have the E0 or later calipers. That said, I don't even know for sure if the E0 calipers would work with the FSVT anchor brackets.

Originally posted by tropictour:
Will our E1 calipers work for a core?
-tropictour

try calling Bill, i am gonna give him my calipers. he might just want to get something and not care wha caliper it is.

Rara(or anyone), do you have a source for zinc coated calipers? I'd really like to avoid the "rusty rotor" if I can.

Mark

Do you want zinc washed rotors or calipers?

I prefer stone washed

Originally posted by todras:
Do you want zinc washed rotors or calipers?

D'oh!! Way to proofread Mark!!

Rotors please!! Do you know where I can find these Todd?

Mark

LOL! Stone washed. Anywho their is a place in Grand Rapids thats called Midwest Plating Co. They did 4 rotors for Eurotour for $25. He said he'd do as many rotors for that also. I need to get 2 FSVT rotors done as well. Guess I should buy them since I have everything else to go on the car. Well want to do SS lines as well. $$$$$$$$$$$$$

Go to www.switchboard.com and put in Plating in Ft. Wayne, IN. 6 places are listed some don't look like they do zinc washing though. Call around and I'm sure you can get it done locally for cheap.

Awesome! Thanks Todd!

Mark

Just fooling around on that site, I found a link to what appears to be a really decent brake supplier. They are QUICK about emailing you back, and I mean within 5 minutes!! The website is www.raceshopper.com.

They don't carry any plain FSVT rotors YET, but they do have slotted, and also diamond slotted(see site) available. Prices break down as such:

FSVT rotors - Slotted: $164.87/pair
FSVT rotors - Diamond slotted: $178.88/pair

All of their rotors come with an anti-corrosion coating, and can be nickel plated for an extra $35/pair.

Mark

The only rotor I'd get for a car driven hard is a gas groved/dimpled rotor or a solid one. Been proven many times cross drilled is not the way to do. Slotted rotors will also eat up your pads pretty quick. Get 2 solid rotors from BAT and get em zinc washed whatever color you wish.

Slotted rotors have not eaten my pads up quick....I had'em on the SHO and the CSVT and pad wear has been good...

Hmm good to know. I've just read and talked with ppl at the track that they eat them. I don't have any experience.

I can see how they would at the track, in my DD usage though, they didn't have any excessive wear issues.

Might be good to note that then ya bastage!

Originally posted by Y2KSVT:
Anyone have pics of their FSVT brakes with 16" or 17" wheels???

Since then I changed the wheels but don't have a close-up of the set-up.

Originally posted by Pudmunkie:

Originally posted by [Email:
Chad@ForcedFed][/Email] I have had the Focus SVT brakes on for a long time and I open track the [censored] out of my car. I got one of the first sets back in the day from Bill @ Sentry I think, back then.

I have since been through the stock pads/rotors and am now on some Napa replacement rotors and Carbotech pads. I went through some crappy Hawk HPS's in 1 track day! They suck for the track but would make an OK street pad. The stock FSVT pad actually works well and is worth getting the caliper "loaded."

You WILL need longer bolts. I ran with the stock bolts for awhile but DID break them eventually under quite "spirited" driving (AutoX, Open Track). I upgraded to longer Metric 10.9 bolts and they have been fine since.

The FSVT brakes work great! I love them! They seem to find the limits of the tire easier as well as taking the heat much better with more surface area. I can get like 3-4 track days (16-20 20 minute + sessions) before the rotors are done and pads toast. Much better then what I got out of the stock SVT stuff! I may look into a setup custom made with Alcon calipers and Stasis 2 piece rotors. Should be intresting. Also talking to Ohlins about some one off coilovers. We'll see!

Its good to hear you're still interested in tracking the contour. For a while it sounded like you wanted to step up to something different. I love seeing your silver frost on thunderhill. You should keep doing it, just toss some more power at it!

At least I think thats your svt, i may be mistaken...

Yep thats me! I am definitely going to get it out a few more times this year. Buttonwillow in October I believe. Definitely on some new tires and fresh fluids. Maybe some more power on tap too! I might pull some more weight out too. We'll see. I switched from ATE Super Blue to Motul and it seems to work great, No more boiling fluid and the Motul is easier to get etc..

In my experience cross drilled or slotted rotors will always eat a pad faster. Just one of the side effects of the cutting effect. I have had the best luck with Ford or generic US made flat SVTF rotor blanks. I haven't even tried a cryo'd set yet which I might.

I have a ton of pics but here is a couple quick ones. Don't mind the "Blue" color of the rotors, lol.

Hey Chad thats the FSVT rotor with the E1 caliper or FSVT caliper? Looks sweet, it fits perfect behind the e1's. Definitely my next upgrade.
-tropictour

I thought the FSVT rotors from Ford were coated with something.

The wear area of course will rust as it has the coating rubbed off anyway... but I thought they were coated.. I don't recall seeing them rusting on mine.

I want some. Those brakes look good behind 17's.

Brining this back to the top. Does anyone know off hand what the length/pitch caliper bolt is needed for this swap?

Thanks

Adrian

Originally posted by Adrian Thompson:
Brining this back to the top. Does anyone know off hand what the length/pitch caliper bolt is needed for this swap?

Thanks

Adrian

BOLT M12X35 HF 10 (Focus SVT Upgrade Caliper bolt) - W500443-S426

Wow, thanks for the quick reply. I have a set of calipers and rotors that I never fitted to my Focus as you can't use them with 15" wheels. As my snow tires were 15" and I didn't want to swap calipers twice a year I never fitted them. My Focus was totaled and I now have an SVTC so they're going on next Tuesday.

Thanks

Adrian

There are brackets with those FSVT calipers, right?

Yes, I got complete SVT Focus corners, calipers, rotors, hubs, upright, LCA etc. From what I've read I just need hardened 3mm washers and it bolts up with the same brake hoses, correct? The rest of the stuff will go on flee-bay or sit in my basement for 10 years and get binned

Thanks

Adrian

Originally posted by Adrian Thompson:
Yes, I got complete SVT Focus corners, calipers, rotors, hubs, upright, LCA etc. From what I've read I just need hardened 3mm washers and it bolts up with the same brake hoses, correct?
Adrian

Correct.

Can somebody please post a picture of where the 3mm spacers go...I understand that they go between the knuckle and the caliper, but am having trouble visualizing it...thanks.

Here ya go.. as you stated, they go between the knuckle and the caliper mounting bracket. If you look real close in this picture you can see the edge of them:

If you were like me.. now you are wondering where you can find the "illustrious" spacers. From another post running in parallel to this:

Originally posted by SVTforme:

FYI..

I ended up getting mine at McMaster Carr. They are hardened steel Belleville washers, part number 96445K267. They are 1.5mm in thickness each, so you need 8 of them total, which you can get in one package. If you opt for stainless (96475K267), you will need 2 packages. They fit perfectly for me. These aren't some cheap low carbon steel K-Mart blue light specials, they are Grade 6150 Chrome Vanadium Steel. The alternative is 17-7 PH Stainless Steel

Belleville washers are "spring washers", which maintain tension when force is applied to their surfaces and can be used to prevent bolt loosening.

EXCELLENT info SVTforme! Well done & Thanks!

Originally posted by TourDeForce:
EXCELLENT info SVTforme! Well done & Thanks!

Thank you very much...

Originally posted by Adrian Thompson:
hubs, upright, LCA etc.

what did you get all that stuff for??

Originally posted by TGO:

Originally posted by Adrian Thompson:
hubs, upright, LCA etc.

what did you get all that stuff for??

two posts above that post he says that he used to own a focus. apparently they need all of that extra stuff, unlike us contour/cougar guys.