Cut springs!!! - CEG Archives

I see...how long ago has it been since you cut them? Might take a while for the bounce to kick in...

It's been about 12,000 miles. The 'bounce hasn't kicked in'

Get your facts straight. Cars bounce when the strut doesn't have enough room to go its full range of motion before bottoming out. Struts are designed to operate with a certain amount of fluid below the strut cylinder, to provide a damping affect. If you put in a shorter spring(lowering spring, ground controls, cut springs) This will shorten the range of motion of the strut. If you put in a spring that is really short, the 'bounce will kick in'

. It is not the cut spring that causes bad ride. I could throw a set of Ground Controls on my factory struts, slam the car, and it would ride like dooky. You need stiffer struts to overcome the shorter strut travel that comes with shorter springs. So, 1 cut coil still allows the strut to operate within its intended range. If I had cut 2 or 3 coils, then the car would be bouncing down the road, and you would be a happy man because you would be right. But not becuase of the cut coils, because the struts don't have enough movement.

I have firsthand experience right here that cutting 1 coil on this particular car causes no problems. All you've got to back up your case is some bull you've read somewhere along your travels in the Internet. Take a venture into the Mustang world, you'll see spring cutting, and spring heating(which I would avoid) is far more common place than you would think. Why should I spend $200 when I can get the same affect for free. I'm not going for handling, but the front end of my car sat way to high. Judging from the pictures of your car, I bet you can relate to that

Originally posted by tastethefury:
Why should I spend $200 when I can get the same affect for free. I'm not going for handling, but the front end of my car sat way to high. Judging from the pictures of your car, I bet you can relate to that

Or do what I did and spend $100 and have a safe, good handling ride.

well fine since you seem to be so right

wheres my coil compressors...cheap lowering job here I come

So have you looked into how you may have changed the structural integrity of your cut springs?

I am not about cutting up factory springs designed by engineers, especially when if your wrong it can be a matter of life and death.

I dont see how cutting the spring would weaken it as a whole. Also i don't see any reason why cutting non progressive springs evenly would have any negative effects.

In my experience for example, i recently lowered my car properly with bat struts (not st200's) and roush springs. Like every other car with roush springs my car sits too high in the front. This last weekend i spoke with an engineer at ford and he actually suggested i carefully cut my non progressive front springs. So far I havent seen any reasons which would dissuade me from doing so

Let me know how that goes. Would you have any way to tell for sure if it affects handling? I've got one road I drive all the time that I know exacly how far I can push my car, so I guess I mean something like that. Tell me if it works out cuz I mite have to do the same, though then I mite be kissing my svt struts good bye.

hmmm... I guess my post hasn't been stupid after all. Good information guys...you rock!!

I gotta agree with this 100%. I think the taboo with cutting springs is because people relate it to heating up springs so they sag and lower, and the retards out there that cut Mom's cars springs in half and then bounce their teeth out driving around.

I believe it's even a common practice that professional shops use.. customer orders springs.. gets them installed... still sits too high.. cut a half coil or coil off... re-install... good to go.

I did this on my 70 Mustang.. no problems after about 30,000 miles on the springs. I cut them with a metal cutting blade on a circular saw. Very little heat involved at all... only localized at the cut. I think I cut about 1 full coil off.

As long as the physical design of the coil (the way it mounts to the car, etc.) can be kept the same... theres no reason why trimming the springs would make your ride dangerous, or bouncy.. as long as u take things slow and know what you're doing, and as already mentioned... u don't chop the spring in half.

hmm, think I'll do this after the 96 finally gets its wheels.

While getting my tires put on yesterday, I was reading a hot rodding magazine and it mentioned cutting springs. The ONLY reason they gave for not doing it is because you may not perfectly cut them on each side and throw off the balance of the car (or something to that affect). It was an article about weighing a car at all 4 corners and setting it up so it has best weight ratio,etc. So if you cut them, try to cut them in the exact same spot on each side.

Then they completely missed the part about how a cut spring doesn't usually gain enough spring rate to make up for the lower ride height. And on a strut-suspended car, that isn't doing anything good for controlling the camber curve either.

No, it's not the end of the world. Yes, there are better ways to do it unless you're looking for only a mild drop and aren't looking to improve handling.

Well they were talking about setups with aftermarket stiff springs (not stock) and mentioned a lotta about adjustable crap (like konis) and also said many shops cut springs when there is no other alternative (old cars, limited aftermarket). Of course for every car this would not be the thing to do, but for some, it could be OK.

Cutting the springs is pointless and dangerous.

There's always spring clamps...a less permanent solution. ...$.02

isn't that equivalent to chopping your springs in half

Originally posted by ZetecNinja:
isn't that equivalent to chopping your springs in half

How?? You wouldn't compromise spring integrity...clamping two coils together would be the same drop as cutting one coil, but you'd still have the full strength...or even increased making it that much stiffer. Not to mention the ability to remove the clamps at a later date.

Sounds like he wanted something temporarily anyway.

A note on heating...f's up the temper & can cause cracking or other disasterous results...not that this was discussed option, just a remark on the subject

Quote:

Cutting the springs is pointless and dangerous.

Why, and mfe would this same principle apply to a car with proper struts and lowering springs?

Originally posted by {Kontofosho}:

Quote:

Cutting the springs is pointless and dangerous.

Why, and mfe would this same principle apply to a car with proper struts and lowering springs?

I'm sure you could find one that it wouldn't matter, but generally, yes...on the kinds of rates you usually get from a factory spring, and the kind of geometry you usually get out of a strut suspension, cutting the springs isn't going to raise their rates enough to meet the needs of the resulting drop.

Originally posted by SVZETEC:

Originally posted by ZetecNinja:
isn't that equivalent to chopping your springs in half

How?? You wouldn't compromise spring integrity...clamping two coils together would be the same drop as cutting one coil, but you'd still have the full strength...or even increased making it that much stiffer. Not to mention the ability to remove the clamps at a later date.

Sounds like he wanted something temporarily anyway.

A note on heating...f's up the temper & can cause cracking or other disasterous results...not that this was discussed option, just a remark on the subject

http://www.contour.org/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=susp&Number=404684&Forum=susp&Words=coil%20compressor&Match=Entire%20Phrase&Searchpage=0&Limit=25&Old=allposts&Main=404202&Search=true#Post404684

hhmmm...maybe we are talking about two different things here. The link you gave appears to be about spring "compressors" (tools to remove coil springs), & not spring "clamps", which were made for the purpose of lowering the vehicle. I did a quick search, and this is what I'm talking about: clamps yes I realize its a Daewoo site, but it was a quick search & this is what I meant...don't want to argue about it, I've never used them, it was only a suggestion if someone wanted to look further into it

Are those clamps safe? I need to do something with mine. I either need to use clamps on the fronts or "helpers" on the back.

no I just got the name wrong...I am talking about exactly what you are.

Some tool that compresses your coils together...

see... http://amos.catalogcity.com/cc.class/cc?main=catalog&ccsyn=1&pcd=5745482
I've never used them either and that price is more tempting than ever...but u know what they say, you get what you pay for.

Fred Puhn's book mentions the proper way to cut springs; if you can't trust him, who then?

STILOV there is a right way and wrong way to do just about anything. Just Say NO To Coil Cutting!

As far as cost goes if you can't afford the right way, don't do it at all, you'll be better off.....

Don't forget: The Quality is remembered Long after the Cost is Forgotten!!!!!

I've been following this thread since it began because I want to lower my car (a 1999 Zetec 'Tour with E1 wheels).

I see there is a basic disagreement here regarding spring cutting. Some of you say that it's OK, so long as it's not done with a cutting torch. (Everyone seems to agree that cutting with a torch is bad because it could affect the temper of the spring, causing an unpredictable change in spring rate, and in extreme cases, a broken spring.) According to the spring-cutting members, if the cutting is done properly and exactly, it just shortens the spring to the same length as aftermarket lowering springs. It also increases the spring rate (i.e. it makes the spring "stiffer") because whenever you cut a coil off a spring, it takes more force to compress the remaining coils a given distance.

Other members are saying that springs should not be cut under any circumstances. They say it's dangerous, and it will cause poor handling.

It seems to me there are three main issues here: 1) will cutting a coil off the spring affect the structural integrity (strength) of the spring? and 2) will the cut spring fit properly in the strut base so that the force of the spring is evenly distributed on the base, just like it is with the stock spring? and, 3) will cutting a coil cause the strut dampers to wear out quickly?

As to issue #1, I asked the guys at a metal fabrication and hot rod shop here (Orange County, CA) if cutting a spring would affect its structural integrity. They said they are not metallurgists, but they have cut tempered springs for years (using a carbon disc blade) and never had one fail. They said the stock Contour spring is not progressive, so cutting off a coil would not noticably change the ride quality. This makes sense to me, since a spring is really just a metal rod that has been wound into a coil. Cutting a part of it off (without excessive heating) should not significantly affect the strength or integrity of the remaining part. We also have the example of the CEG member who lives in Hawaii (lucky dog); he cut his springs and has run them for 10k miles without a problem.

As to the second issue, I haven't found any information. I have looked at my springs (still mounted on the car) and I can't really tell if they would still fit properly (i.e. will they fit solidly into the strut base and be supported by the strut base for the entire first coil) if I cut off a coil. Does anyone know about this fit issue? I hope our member in Hawaii can answer this.

I also have found nothing useful re: the third issue. No one seems to know if lowering 1" will put undue wear on the dampers. Lots of people seem to think that lowering 2" will blow out the dampers, but does anyone know why? I guess we would need an expert in damper design to tell us that.

Sorry for the length of this message. It's a hazard of my profession (attorney).

I don't know about part 1, but part 2...if they are not progressive and you cut EXACTLY one coil off, meaning the end of the coil is EXACTLY where the stock coil ends, there should be no fitment issues. As for part 3, there are also mixed opinions on that. I personally run Spax struts with my Eibachs, I was told they are somewhat of a stock SVT strut with stiffer valving, and they are holding up fine. People run a 1" drop with stock struts and many don't seem to have trouble, but it's a touchy subject to some people. Just some random thoughts, why don't you just buy the BAT kit or a suspension that is known to work. I just thought attorneys usually aren't that strapped for cash. Don't hate me, just curious.

I run roush springs on used SVT struts and it's working fine. I would like different struts, really I'd like lower lowering springs too, but money is a big issue. Bilstein struts would be very nice, but can't beat SVT struts for $15 that are holding well so far.

I have also cut my springs, and been running them for about 12,000 miles with no problems. Ride quality is the same as before I cut them, and the struts haven't worn out yet. When I cut my coils, I cut the top off of each one, and they all fit back on the struts fine.

Despite all of the negative feed back...I did it. It rides fine. Just like before, I went with some st200 struts and the ride feels much better than it used to. Anyway...to each his own! But no I don't believe it to be any more dangerous than driving your car

Hey, Stilov, did you cut off the top coil or the bottom coil of each spring? And did the spring fit into the strut just like stock?

Yes off the top although it didn't look like it would matter on the fronts. They did fit back inot the assemblies fine except with that great of an angle and my crappy spring compressor, I had to hold the top in the right place...but with a bit of worked...they went fine.

Congrats! How much did it drop your car?

I measured it before an after and if I remember right not even a whole inch in front...like 7/8 or so...maybe after they have settled a bit more, but I lik it now...not too low, but looks good.

Originally posted by stilov:
I measured it before an after and if I remember right not even a whole inch in front...like 7/8 or so...maybe after they have settled a bit more, but I lik it now...not too low, but looks good.

pic?

Cutting the spring is not necessarily dangerous!

Man, this isn't rocket science and its not voodoo either!

A spring is designed to carry a certain load and travel a certain distance.
First you assume that you don't affect the heat treatment of the spring so it will not loose and of its physical properties in the compressible area and that it is a linear rate spring and not progressive. (I can justify this assumption as long as you aren't using a cutting torch)
If you lop off one coil then all you do is reduce the length of the spring and the ultimate load it can carry before it bottoms out. That is it and there is nothing dangerous about that. As long as you clock the spring into the correct position then it isn't going to make a rats a$$ is you are 1mm to 1cm off in your cut from right to left. This is because 75% of the whole first coil is sitting in the spring seat on the strut mounts.
Again, less coils mean less load bearing ability and less travel distance, nothing else.

In addition to Warmonger's statement, I would like to hear logically how a cut spring has an increased spring rate...Logically, it is still the same spring, just missing a coil or two. So where does the increased spring rate come from?

if removing coils is causing the spring to be able to handle less load...wouldn't that make the car too heavy for the springs making it not able to properly distribute the weight?

In the end, making your car handle like a$$?

No.

To clarify:
The car doesn't weigh any more than it did before.

Less if you count the missing coil?

Two, you have to understand just how much weight is at each corner of the car and how much compression is on the spring AND how many coils you cut.
Assume you cut ONE Coil; The designer factors in the maximum load (published on the car door sill sticker) and the maximum travel distance for the spring. Then he adds a little margin of error for the moron who overloads the car and hits a dip at high speed so that it doesn't bottom out.

If you cut one coil then you remove a portion of the travel when the car is fully loaded and you may bottom out on a hard dip, but otherwise it should handle exactly the same since the normal spring travel is much shorter than the whole compressible lenght of the spring. Handling would get screwy only when the spring bottomed out.

If you still are unclear, you will have to look at the mathematical expression for the force of a spring = -k*x
which tells you that the spring generates more force as it is compressed a distance x. If you shorten the length then you limit the overall force the spring creates. You can calculate just how much ultimate force you will need in the spring by determining the total load with forces applied while driving and seeing how much travel distance is available in the spring. If you cut more than that then you will bottom out and handling will go to [censored].
This is the bounce people are talking about.

so the biggest factor that decides whether you'll have the bouncy effect or not is how much of the coil is cut

well what about these spring compressors which don't cut anything?

The only factor is whether there is enough travel in the spring to suspend the weight while driving. Cut too many coils and you will bounce and bottom out.
Spring compressors just do the same thing as cutting, they take away a portion of the springs travel distance and ultimately its load carrying capability. No difference in the end other than being able to take them back off. Using spring compressors is probably a worse idea than cutting IMH because the spring is constantly compressed in the middle and will weaken over time.

Originally posted by JonnySVT:
In addition to Warmonger's statement, I would like to hear logically how a cut spring has an increased spring rate...Logically, it is still the same spring, just missing a coil or two. So where does the increased spring rate come from?

Remember...a spring is really nothing more than a straight torsion bar that has been wound. Or another way...a straight lever that has been been wound. If you shorten that torsion bar/lever, you are changing the leverage. You are increasing its resistance to bending. So by cutting a spring..you are shortening that lever...therefore increasing its resistance to bending/compression...ie...increasing its spring rate.

You cannot shorten a lever w/out changing its resistance to bending, unless another some other force is applied (ie...heat).

Now I'm sure someone like Stazi could throwm some engineering #s at you to support this idea.

Mcgainer, I read what you said about how cutting results in increased spring rate. Does that mean cutting a coil off my springs will make the car ride firmer than before? If so, wouldn't that improve the handling?

Sorry, but on a progressive spring cutting a coil would result in a firmer ride, but on a linear spring it wouldn't change the ride. The math formula F=-kX shows that it is a linear effect and that the force is a function of distance (X) that the spring can be compressed or stretched.
Less distance (i.e. cutting coils) means less available force. A progressive rate spring will most likely be some sort of a square function and it greatly depends on which end you cut the coils. Cutting the softer coils off would increase the overall rate and yield a firmer ride.
However, we don't have progressive rate springs, at least not stock.

I'm glad to hear that. I have always doubted that theory. Obviously with progressives it will change, but I knew in the back of my head that linears would not change, I just had no technical proof to prove it, just logic. Thanx for clearing that up.

I cut my springs today. I cut one full coil off of each spring. I got a three-quarter inch drop. I expect it will settle a little lower over the next few weeks. It rides and handles just the same as before, so far as I can tell.

Dudes (e.g. Warmonger and JohhnySVT)...when you cut any coil off a spring YOU RAISE ITS RATE. Period. Indisputable. Fact of physics. Progressive or fixed-rate, doesn't matter.

The equation that defines spring rate (not conjecture, not somebody's opinion, spring rate by definition) is:

K = w^4*G/8ND^3

K = Spring rate in pounds per inch
W = Diameter of the spring wire in inches
G = 12,000,000 for steel springs (a constant)
N = Number of active coils (number of coils that are free to move + 1/2 coil)
D = Diameter of the coils measured to the center of the wire, in inches

Notice the relationship between the number of active coils and the spring rate. Play with the math yourselves and see what happens to that equation when you reduce the number of active coils. For instance if you cut off half the active coils the spring rate is doubled.

I hope this scientific fact provides the necessary "logical explanation".

The questions regarding handling then become, as I've said before even in this thread, 1) does that increase in spring rate then make up for the reduction in travel caused by the cut? Many times, no, and the more you cut the more likely you are to have a mismatch. 2) You've lowered the CG, but have you also lowered the Roll Center so much that the CG now has an increased leverage against the Roll Center (yes, it happens) and your spring rate isn't enough to make an actual improvement, and Furthermore, 3) does the increase in rate make up for the wheel's new placement in the suspension's camber curve, which is typically horrible in a strut suspension? In other words, you've lowered the CG, but now you get 2 degrees if body roll in a corner and the camber curve dictates you don't gain 2 degrees of negative camber back as the suspension compresses, for a net loss in camber?

Things get complicated. Quite obviously a mild cut isn't the end of the world in these cars, but now you have the facts as to why cutting springs isn't the easy be-all-end-all suspension improver.

whoo thanx for the science

WEIRD SCIENCE

Well ok, thanks for the education. I stand corrected though the results of what I was trying to get across are the same....cutting the spring seems to be more significant in reducing overall spring force than the increases in spring rate from less coils would add to it. I played with the numbers and what stands out to me is the factor of 12^6 and a 4th order function of diameter in the numerator and a 3rd order function of diameter in the denominator.

In the end I think the spring would cease to fit correctly before the rate increases became significant enough to be beneficial.

Cal: Which end of the spring did you cut the coil off.

Thanks

Sarge, I cut the bottom coil off of each spring. By the way, I re-measured the drop today using a proper metal ruler, and the actual drop is three-quarters of an inch in the back, and half an inch in the front. Hopefully it will settle a little more in the front. Keep in mind that my car is a Zetec. V6 cars might get a different drop.

Rodger that, my Stang dropped 1.75" after I put on FMC "C" springs with 1/2 a coil cut off. had to put in some urethane isolators in to get back a .25". Heres a before and after of her.
http://www.mustangmods.com/data/666/Together.jpg

What are these so called urethane isolators? Do they lift back up? I need them for my rears. I decided instead of switching out my front springs, or cutting them, or clamping them, I'll just try to lift up the rear a bit if possible. The front is about 3/4-1 inch higher than the rear. Is this what they are for? If so, are they reliable and where do you get them? So many questions.

The urethene isolators are more dense than the stock pieces and of course will also last a bit longer. The isolators go between the springs and the suspension/body to dampen noise. If you have that much of a difference the isolators won't help much, better you should think look into spring spacers or maybe a set of sport springs to correct the problem and drop her down a little.

Cutting springs a slight amount is the correct way to fine tune the ride height of even performance springs. Now it is obviously up to the technician doing the final install to determine if the final ride height will effect the performance of all the rest of the geometry in the suspension. I've owned 3 Mustangs in the past that all had 1 coil cold-cut off the front and 1 1/4 coils off the rear and one of those cars I had, had even gotten around 85,000 miles of my hard driving on it with them cut like that with absolutely NO problems ever. It dropped about 1 inch all the way around. And the car with that setup did ride just a tad stiffer, but that is because there is one less coil to absorb shock in the suspension as before. It worked good, because it stiffened the suspension a slight amount to really increase the handling of the car a lot. Now you don't want to lower your car too much or you gotta make other changes as well to compensate. Like after so low you need offset rack bushings to raise your rack & pinion unit up so your tie rods are level again (to elliminate bumpsteer) to name one thing. But the idea is not to take out so much spring that they fall out when you jack the car up and the suspension fully extends, no. It is just to lower the ride height by a slight amount to effectively lower your center of gravity a little bit and adding a slight amount of stiffness to help reduce sway. I'm going to cut a slight bit off my Contour's front springs pretty quick so I can just bring the level even with the rear (to counteract the weight of my speaker box in the rear). And I know I will have no adverse reactions from this since I will only be going about 1 inch down and then I will do an alignment again to make sure that the lowering didn't throw off the caster/camber/toe to unacceptable levels. 1 inch is not enough to cause havoc in the geometry. The key is not to go too far with cutting. Or any method of lowering for that matter. Lowering springs can ALSO throw your suspension way off correct geometry, making it necessary to do many other mods to bring everthing back into safe tolerances again. Technician must be educated enough to know of any adverse reactions that may result from any mods he makes to the suspension. I have my ASE certification in suspension and with all my knowledge, I have no problem with cutting springs as long as you know what your doing and how far you are going.

Well said, Josch. Here's some further info for anyone interested in cutting Contour springs: I cut mine while they were still mounted on the car. Here's how: I jacked up the car and took off the wheels. Then I attempted to put on the spring compressors, but the bolts on the spring compressor I rented from Kragen Auto Parts were too long (about 12"), and there wasn't enough room for them inside the strut tower. So I slipped a six-inch long piece of half-inch steel pipe over the spring compressor bolts. The pipe acted as a spacer and kept the bolts from hitting against the top of the spring or the strut tower. Then I just tightened down the spring compressors. Now comes the hard part: you have to cut the coils VERY CAREFULLY because there is not much room to work inside the wheel well, and you have to be careful not to cut into the other coils, or the strut base. I made protective pads out of fiberboard and duct-taped them on the places I wanted to protect. Then I cut the bottom coil off with my angle grinder. Then I removed the cut-off coil from the strut. It takes a little work to remove the cut-off coil, because it gets a little pinched down against the strut base by the remaining spring. I cut the cut-off coil in half to get it off, and then used a floor jack and some pieces of steel pipe to raise the spring enough to extract the cut-off coil. The whole job might have gone much faster if the spring compressors were slimmer so they would fit better in the limited space available, and compressed the spring more. Anyway, the Kragen compressors worked, but just barely. I did the job in three hours, and I didn't have to mess with disassembling the struts, knuckles, tie rod ends, brake lines, etc. Do I recommend it? Well, not really, unless you have better spring compressors than I did. With the spring compressors I used, there really was very little room for error with the angle grinder. And I had to get pretty creative with the floor jack to extract the cut-off coil from the strut.

Why would the springs settle any more just by cutting? Unless they were new springs, they settled before they were even cut.

1314: Yup mine were new springs and I really wrung'm hard on that lumpy road.

1314, to answer your question about why springs would "settle" after cutting: it may be because a newly-cut coil does not rest completely flat on the strut base (or the strut hat, if you cut the top coil on the spring). When I first cut my springs, they rested flat against the strut base for only about half of the bottom coil. After a few days, almost two-thirds of the bottom coil is resting in full contact with the strut base, and the car has settled about a quarter inch. I guess it takes a few days (or weeks) for the weight of the car to push the cut coil flat down against the strut base. Anybody out there know more about this?

Wow, this is all very interesting. It seems like I may be up for some coil cutting. Does anyone have any pictures of their contours with their springs cut?

I'm running 18s and haven't dropped the car at all, so I've been looking around. I don't want to slam the car, but I want to have a reasonable drop to compensate for the gap. I've always thought that an inch would probably do the trick. It would at least get me back closer to the stock height, I went with 225/40/18s, so I'm slightly higher than stock.

So, what was the overall drop consensus? 3/4", 1", 1 1/4" ?

Thanks

(I really need to roll those fenders too!)

I have pictures of my 98 SE V6 with 1 coil cut. It looks great, not too low, not too high. I got 1" drop in the front, and 1/2" in the back. The link to my pictures is in my sig, check it out!

Originally posted by JeremySeVT:
Wow, this is all very interesting. It seems like I may be up for some coil cutting. Does anyone have any pictures of their contours with their springs cut?

I'm running 18s and haven't dropped the car at all, so I've been looking around. I don't want to slam the car, but I want to have a reasonable drop to compensate for the gap. I've always thought that an inch would probably do the trick. It would at least get me back closer to the stock height, I went with 225/40/18s, so I'm slightly higher than stock.

So, what was the overall drop consensus? 3/4", 1", 1 1/4" ?

Thanks

(I really need to roll those fenders too!)

Originally posted by tastethefury:
I have pictures of my 98 SE V6 with 1 coil cut. It looks great, not too low, not too high. I got 1" drop in the front, and 1/2" in the back. The link to my pictures is in my sig, check it out!

Originally posted by JeremySeVT:
Wow, this is all very interesting. It seems like I may be up for some coil cutting. Does anyone have any pictures of their contours with their springs cut?

I'm running 18s and haven't dropped the car at all, so I've been looking around. I don't want to slam the car, but I want to have a reasonable drop to compensate for the gap. I've always thought that an inch would probably do the trick. It would at least get me back closer to the stock height, I went with 225/40/18s, so I'm slightly higher than stock.

So, what was the overall drop consensus? 3/4", 1", 1 1/4" ?

Thanks

(I really need to roll those fenders too!)

Thanks for the images. So you mearly got a 1/2 drop in the rear. Hrm. I suppose this is ok because every time I look at my car it always appears that the front is higher than the rear. Maybe it's because the back is more loaded than the front...nah. Anyway, this all sounds good to me. But I really need to roll my rear fenders before I get to the drop. How long did it take you to cut them? And did you cut from the top or from the bottom? By the way, are you rolling on 18's as well?

Anyway, thanks again.

As on most cars, the rear fender to tire gap is smaller than the one on the front, even when the car sits level. Lowering exacerbates the illusion of butt-hang because the rear gap is reduced to near zero, but the front gap remains measurable. That's how a level-lowered car should look.

I can agree with that. Although it is a strong illusion to look past, it is true. My car is perfectly level with the Eibachs, but the front appears higher from most angles.

Very interesting guys. What are your thoughts on just dropping the front? Well...I dunno if I'd like that... Either way, I'd like to drop the car. Sounds like this could be a weekend project sure enough

Mine has the same effect. I'm thinking of adding some kind of a little spacer in the back where the spring sits to raise the back end a little, maybe a half inch or so. I want it to look taller in the rear than the front but I like the way it handles right now.
Any suggestions?

When I was living in the world of lifted grand cherokee's, they had a coil spacer available in a couple of sizes to give you a bit more space for larger tires......

IIRC, Pepboys or the like may have some type of coil spacers for those with sagging springs,ect. They may work for what you need

Originally posted by JeremySeVT:
Very interesting guys. What are your thoughts on just dropping the front?

Dropping, even by cutting springs, will increase your spring rate.

Increasing spring rate at the front without adjusting the rear will yield more understeer.

It will also increase the natural frequency at the front end, upsetting the front-rear balance, which could lead to a "pitching" feeling going over bumps at a certain speed. This is where the discussion gets a little long-winded, so I'll stop there. If you need more info, just ask.

This past weekend we lowered Ricks(R96SE) 96 se. Further up in the post someone had put up a link to spring clamps. We found these at a local autozone for $7 a set(i.e. front or rear) I was skeptical about the grade 5 bolts included so we spent another couple bucks on grade 8 bolts and locking nuts with threadlock. We ended up only doing the fronts due to the image it presented. It dropped very nicely, there is only about a 1/2 of fender gap in the front now, and the rear sits very even with the stock se setup. We did have to trim some of the bolts with a cutoff wheel since they would interfere with the spring or strut seat, but everything went smoothly. Hanndling was lsightly increased,not much, and ride felt pretty much the same, softer still than my roush/st200 setup. Hope this helps anyone decide, we chose this method since it could be reversed unlike cutting coils off. Will post pics soon!

Awesome stuff. So, from what I'm gathering, it's just best to go drop all around. Since I hear that the front drops about an inch and the rear only about a 1/2.. maybe I'll be alright.

I really need to roll the fenders... darn slices in my tires suck.

I'll check back.. thanks for the updates guys. I'd love to see some photos.

Here is a pic of Rick's car stock, and then after we put the spring clamps ont he front. The pic is kinda crappy since its at night, better ones are to follow. For those who care, we put the car on the alignment machine today and rear toe was out .10* and the front was out about .55* on each side. Caster and camber stayed within spec.
STOCK

CLAMPED

Thanks for the update.. and like you said.. a better picture would be awesome. From what I can barely see.. it doesn't look like too much improvement. What was the final measure of the drop? Thanks again guys.

I'm running 17's, with 215/45/17" tires.

The drop was one inch even though the pic really does not show it very well.. Me likes it...

Wow I really hate to bring this topic back alive - but its been a while since all of this cutting hype has gone on.

How is everyones ride holding up and handling now? Did the springs ever crack or mess up? Did your struts last a while or did they go out. Most importantly: Did this screw up your tire wear. I dont want to spend $800.00 on new yokohamas instead I would put that towards a lowering kit.

How are the clamps holding up in the front?

I have to confess about 2 years ago I heated my front springs up and it was the worst mistake ever. I was bouncing all over the place (mainly because I only had it done to the front because the gap is horrible) so I am wondering if this screwed up anyones ride.

Thanks

Originally posted by CSVT985:
Wow I really hate to bring this topic back alive - but its been a while since all of this cutting hype has gone on.

How is everyones ride holding up and handling now? Did the springs ever crack or mess up? Did your struts last a while or did they go out. Most importantly: Did this screw up your tire wear. I dont want to spend $800.00 on new yokohamas instead I would put that towards a lowering kit.

How are the clamps holding up in the front?

I have to confess about 2 years ago I heated my front springs up and it was the worst mistake ever. I was bouncing all over the place (mainly because I only had it done to the front because the gap is horrible) so I am wondering if this screwed up anyones ride.

Thanks

Heating is worse than cutting, because you reduce travel without increasing spring rate.

Oh I know now - I replaced my springs shortly after having it done. I really just want to know if these guys finally received damage or anything after they cut them.

Ill eventually have enough to get a BAT/H&R kit (I get $600.00 from income tax this year)

So im doing that and I hopefully can meet some CEGers from Dallas/Ft.Worth/Denton area and maybe do someone elses car.

Well my cut springs w/ st 200's are holding fine.

Cool, thanks for the update. I just hate that huge gap in the front...so ugly

i will echo the sentiments of whoever said they hate to bring this back up...but what kind of tool did you use to cut the springs? im considering doing it this weekend and would probably use a sawzall...good, bad or indifferent?

Originally posted by cavrs:
i will echo the sentiments of whoever said they hate to bring this back up...but what kind of tool did you use to cut the springs? im considering doing it this weekend and would probably use a sawzall...good, bad or indifferent?

Originally posted by Stazi:

Originally posted by cavrs:
i will echo the sentiments of whoever said they hate to bring this back up...but what kind of tool did you use to cut the springs? im considering doing it this weekend and would probably use a sawzall...good, bad or indifferent?

ill do it for you!

It always breaks my heart to see another SVT ghetto-rigged.

Man...I need to post the pictures of when I had my springs heated....it was so awesome! lol..not...the tire was nearly up in the engine bay...Im so glad I am getting H & R springs soon...Riding at stock height is just horrible.

I had mine clamped when I first got it. I drove it that way for about six months but I got tired of its ride so I took the clamps off. Now, about four years later, its getting lowered the proper way.

DON"T CUT them, did it to my neon and had to replace them with lowering springs. The springs coil them level out at the end, if you cut them they won't level out anymore so getting them to work correctly in the strut assembly is trickly. Plus then they are noisy and I have hear of extreme cases where they popped out and shredded the tire. Not safe or smart.

I can usually afford nothing, but when it came to lowering my car i did it right, it took quite a bit of money out of me but i know it'll be worth it.

~Alex

Cut top or bottom ?

Originally posted by mcfast:
Cut top or bottom ?

how about not at all?

~Alex

Originally posted by mcfast:
Cut top or bottom ?

Any buddy?

If I remember correctly you cut the top, bottom has to rest correctly on the strut plate...cut the ring directly below where the coil begins.

Better do the wrong thing the right way than do the wrong thing the wrong way.

Originally posted by CSVT985:
Better do the wrong thing the right way than do the wrong thing the wrong way.

That was nicely put

I sound retarded on the front page of this thread.

who brought this back!