Rear sway bay????? - CEG Archives

Originally posted by StaticTour96:
with some pipe and a welder.... how else there isnt that much to it...

You're a dufus!

I designed the Aussie Bar, and let me tell you we didn't go down to Lowe's buy some pipe and weld it onto a Contour and say "That'll do it".

Originally posted by Stazi the Aussie:

Originally posted by StaticTour96:
with some pipe and a welder.... how else there isnt that much to it...

You're a dufus!

I designed the Aussie Bar, and let me tell you we didn't go down to Lowe's buy some pipe and weld it onto a Contour and say "That'll do it".

Ahhhh...come on Aussie...I've got your bar, and I think I could have built it using straws...glue...and some good ole duct tape!!!

lol guys cut me some slack I have never seen it in person. why is it so hard to do??

Its not a straight bar with up-turned ends...its go a jog on the passenger side. So you have to perform bends w/out compromising the spring rate. Also...as you can get the Aussie bar (24mm hallow) for say $120..or the BAT bar (22mm solid?) for a little under that...

I think that there are parts you can fab yourself at a shop (trailing arms, caliper brackets, etc..) but anything involving a "spring rate" or rotational resistance involves a little more than eye-balling it...

Originally posted by StaticTour96:
cut me some slack I have never seen it in person.

Seeing as you haven't even seen it, what makes you think you can frikkin make one with pipe and a welder.

There's some things you should leave to us professionals with experience in vehicle driveline and suspension systems.

I applaud people for wanting to make their own mods and work on their cars themselves. But you are talking about messing with you cars suspensions which could end up killing you and worse still, some innocent person.

forget all those people go for it... If people didnt do things like this the world would suck.
You must take risks to do great things.
Id rather die atempting something great than live an average life.

Stazi you didnt cure cancer,you didnt win the Gran Prix you made a sway bar...Hahaha... a sway bar....

I never claimed to cure cancer. But I know what I am talking about when it comes to suspensions. Design driveline for the Big 3 is what I do for a living. Unlike yourself.

Just cos no one has strapped an Exocet missle to the back so that can "fly" doesn't mean it's a good idea either, does it?

What have you done of mention lately, seeing as you think my design of a performance swaybar for the CDW27 platform is, in your eyes, comical?

Go play with some lit dynamite sticks, assclown.

Originally posted by irvsully2020:

Id rather die atempting something great than live an average life.

I would rather you die attempting something great than kill somebody attempting something stupid..

ok well if I get it to the right length then what would be the problem... can you explain that?????? all it is is just a matter of getting everything right size and all isnt it... I am not trying to be a dick about it or start a flame war I am just curious so I know why this is so hard and all

Unless you are a master welder don't don't bother making one. Stazi made a sway bar
and it works well. Do you even know the forces that are going to act on your
sway bar?? Have you calculated that?? And do you think your welds will be strong
enough to withstand those forces?? I'm not trying to make you feel bad but stazi
know what he is doing..

The sway bar has to be one piece otherwise if you try welding "legs" on a bar, they will eventually snap off from fully-reversing rotary cyclic fatigue. And if that happens mid corner when you're pushing it full tilt, it may cos the car to loose control and send you into the ditch or oncoming traffic.

Seriously, just drop it, buy a swaybar and weld yourself up a BBQ or something if you're itching to weld something.

Originally posted by irvsully2020:
If people didnt do things like this the world would suck. You must take risks to do great things. Id rather die atempting something great than live an average life.

Attempting to weld a sway bar from 4 different pieces of pipe from Home Depot is hardly considered something great. Please do us all a favor and attempt to jump off a 100 story building, that would be something great.

ok well I think i might just buy one... I wasnt trying to start anything I just thought I might be able to save some money but you know what you are doing and I dont want to cause a wreck or anything. can you tell me why yours is hollow and bats is solid and what the difference is???? thanks guys I am glad I posted something

Originally posted by Stazi the Aussie:
The sway bar has to be one piece otherwise if you try welding "legs" on a bar, they will eventually snap off from fully-reversing rotary cyclic fatigue. And if that happens mid corner when you're pushing it full tilt, it may cos the car to loose control and send you into the ditch or oncoming traffic.

Seriously, just drop it, buy a swaybar and weld yourself up a BBQ or something if you're itching to weld something.

I'm always itching to weld something!! You sound like the person I need to talk to...About fabricating suspension components that is

By the way I'm a millwright apprentice (2 months left on apprenticeship)so I can weld, machine, and fabricate just about anything. If I can't I sure as hell would like to try...

I gots ideas just need to run them by some qualified minds

And by the way a welded swaybar

Failure 101

Originally posted by StaticTour96:
ok well I think i might just buy one... I wasnt trying to start anything I just thought I might be able to save some money but you know what you are doing and I dont want to cause a wreck or anything. can you tell me why yours is hollow and bats is solid and what the difference is???? thanks guys I am glad I posted something

LOL no more getto setups static.

Originally posted by StaticTour96:
with some pipe and a welder.... how else there isnt that much to it...

Bwahahaha!!!!

Man you just made my day!

btw- I still don't have mine in... Midas, and about every other shop i've been to, told me they wouldn't do it. Any advice? Where did you guys go and how did you convince them to install it?

install a rear sway bar??? do it yourself, it's easy. if it needs welding (the brackets) just take it to a place that will weld it after you have it on.

Larger diameter = larger polar moment of inertia
Hollow = less weight (go faster!)
If I did the numbers right, a 24mm hollow bar would have to have a 9.5mm (~3/8") wall thickness in order to have the same torsional rigidity as a 22mm solid bar, assuming the same material (i.e. shear modulus) in both bars. But, with the hollow bar, you'd save about 2 lbs. for every foot of bar length (if it's made of say, steel). Assuming the bar is say 4 ft long, that's 8lbs. of weight savings using the hollow bar. Hey, every bit counts!

But come on, we all know we'd be better off w/ an extra long hot dog with a few hose clamps and some bolts. I'm in!

BTW - any of you have material prop's for a Ballpark frank?

Munch is correct.
The 24mm hollow Aussie Bar, even though it is slightly larger in diameter than the solid batt bar, yields the same torsional momeny of inertia, which is directly proportyional to torsional rigidity, as the 22mm solid bar, whilst making the Aussie bar even LIGHTER than the STOCK SVT rear sway bar!

This is because the torsional rigidity is directly proportional to the radius taken to the 4th power (R^4), so what this means is that the center 2/3 of the bar is really insignificant as far as stiffness goes, compared to the outer 1/3 of the bar's radius.

Sweet - do I get a discount on an Aussie bar now?

They don't make them anymore! You will have to buy one second hand. At least that was the last thing I heard!

-Andy

Total BS.

I actually spoke to the Prototype Shop Manager today who wanted to know if more were going to be ordered.

Best Ask Terry Haines if he will order more.

Otherwise, you guys better start another Group Buy, this time with people who WILL pay up when the time comes.

If anyone needs help with this let me know.

But AFAYC, AAM STILL DOES MAKE THE AUSSIE BAR!

Originally posted by Stazi the Aussie:
Munch is correct.
The 24mm hollow Aussie Bar, even though it is slightly larger in diameter than the solid batt bar, yields the same torsional momeny of inertia, which is directly proportyional to torsional rigidity, as the 22mm solid bar, whilst making the Aussie bar even LIGHTER than the STOCK SVT rear sway bar!

This is because the torsional rigidity is directly proportional to the radius taken to the 4th power (R^4), so what this means is that the center 2/3 of the bar is really insignificant as far as stiffness goes, compared to the outer 1/3 of the bar's radius.

Blah blah blah. My foot is directly proportional to the size of my....oh never mind.

i was thinking of making my own three liter engine for a swap, i have two 1.5 liter engines, can i just weldthose two together and make one 3.0 liter?

i'm joshing ya, buy one professionally made

Originally posted by Stazi the Aussie:
assclown.

assclown, A$$CLOWN!!!! HAHAHAHAHAHA

Ok, I think we all get the point, it isn't the smartest thing to just make and slap one on the car in true "okieized" fashion... But I believe the original question was how hard it would be to do. Not bash the guy for thinking of trying something for himself...

you guys are fockers I was just asking a question you dont have to bust on me

Originally posted by StaticTour96:
you guys are fockers I was just asking a question you dont have to bust on me

Come on..this is waaaaaay more entertaining!

Originally posted by mcgainer:

Originally posted by StaticTour96:
you guys are fockers I was just asking a question you dont have to bust on me

Come on..this is waaaaaay more entertaining!

Heck yeah.

HaHaHaBaWAHHHHHHHHHaaaa! I laughed, I cried...

No more bustin'. Just listen, I wouldn't lie to you about this.

I am listening... but it is going to get ugly if they dont lay off me for being creative

Back off! Attitudes like this are becoming a problem.

-Andy

What exactly is a sway bay anyway?

Originally posted by StaticTour96:
you guys are fockers I was just asking a question you dont have to bust on me

Kudos to you for being creative. I'm a composites guy and have been toying around with ideas for making graphite fenders/hoods and even load-bearing parts in order to drop weight on my 98 - Just need an oven, raw materials...

Time is money, and trust me, you don't wanna do the next iteration on a sway bar design. 100 bucks, done deal - rippin' corners. Use that energy to bolt on that mod and come up with another way to be quicker/faster/tighter that someone else hasn't thought of

. You just might start a business.

Originally posted by Andy W.:
Back off! Attitudes like this are becoming a problem.

-Andy

I agree.

Originally posted by LuckyTour95:

I agree.

its like everywhere I go I see a post from you adam... just remember you had over 100 post yesterday man... that is a lot of post in just one day!

You know he is never going to live this down... It will haunt him for the rest of his days on here...

I am almost there stolon and no you wont I will always be the BBBAB

Originally posted by StaticTour96:
I am almost there stolon

I get this part...

Quote:

and no you wont I will always be the BBBAB

I'm lost w/ this part...

I meant that I am the B.B.B.A.B. meaning Bigger Better Bad Azz Beeoch.

I got that part but not the "no you won't" partin front of that.

I mean no you wont give me a hard time about it cause you thought it would work to and I will find something to give you a hard time about if you dont let it go

:p well you need to learn who is being spoken to because I was talking to you when I said he'll never learn and it will haunt him, speaking about adam...

Wow, for a second it looked like an AIM chat session. With the cute little colors between the pair of you, not to mention your nicknames that look similar.

Oh I know he wont I will bug him about it forever to... sorry about the confusion james...

Oh man oh man 100 post in one day that is a lot of typing... well I take that back cause all he types is "LMAO of these "

"

Hahaha... Adam man we are just giving you a hard time man... dont take it wrong lol

{

Stevers,
your sig rocks. . .

Originally posted by Munch:
If I did the numbers right, a 24mm hollow bar would have to have a 9.5mm (~3/8") wall thickness in order to have the same torsional rigidity as a 22mm solid bar, assuming the same material (i.e. shear modulus) in both bars. But, with the hollow bar, you'd save about 2 lbs. for every foot of bar length (if it's made of say, steel). Assuming the bar is say 4 ft long, that's 8lbs. of weight savings using the hollow bar. Hey, every bit counts!

Damn you two for making me think about my Mechanic of Solids class the last week of break! DAMN YOU TWO!

Now, why does torsional rigidity really matters that much???

I thought it's the lateral forces are the ones that the sway bar are there to prevent? I mean, the sway bars are there to reduce chassis flex when cornering, so it's compressed left to right? So shouldn't you be more worried about the direct shear and stress?

Originally posted by AirKnight:
Now, why does torsional rigidity really matters that much???

Because since the bar is bent at a 90 degree angle on both ends the middle section of the bar is what actually does the resisting. Thus in the 90 degree translation of energy it would in effect be exerting a twisting motion on the center section of the bar.

Originally posted by DemonSVT:

Originally posted by AirKnight:
Now, why does torsional rigidity really matters that much???

Because since the bar is bent at a 90 degree angle on both ends the middle section of the bar is what actually does the resisting. Thus in the 90 degree translation of energy it would in effect be exerting a twisting motion on the center section of the bar.

100% Correct.

Airknight, I suggest you better go study some more!

One more argument about your post counts and I will have both reset to 0!

-Andy

Power trip.

Originally posted by Corbett:
Power trip.

Forgive him god...he knoweth not what he sayeth...

Originally posted by AirKnight:

Originally posted by Munch:
If I did the numbers right, a 24mm hollow bar would have to have a 9.5mm (~3/8") wall thickness in order to have the same torsional rigidity as a 22mm solid bar, assuming the same material (i.e. shear modulus) in both bars. But, with the hollow bar, you'd save about 2 lbs. for every foot of bar length (if it's made of say, steel). Assuming the bar is say 4 ft long, that's 8lbs. of weight savings using the hollow bar. Hey, every bit counts!

Damn you two for making me think about my Mechanic of Solids class the last week of break! DAMN YOU TWO!

Now, why does torsional rigidity really matters that much??? I thought it's the lateral forces are the ones that the sway bar are there to prevent? I mean, the sway bars are there to reduce chassis flex when cornering, so it's compressed left to right? So shouldn't you be more worried about the direct shear and stress?

Not lateral forces, but lateral weight transfer of the car via vertical deflection of the suspension, which is resisted via the torsion of the swaybar, per Demon.

This isn't about a power trip. It's about trying to resolve stupid arguments and unsolicited attacks on fellow CEGer's. Lance has always a had a firm stance on the fac that he will zero post counts if arguing occurs. Not all the moderators have time to read all the threads so I do my part where it's needed.

-Andy

Originally posted by cliffjohnson:
i was thinking of making my own three liter engine for a swap, i have two 1.5 liter engines, can i just weldthose two together and make one 3.0 liter?

On an off-topic tangent, isn't one of the Aston Martin engines basically two 3.0l Duratecs together ?? I think I saw it in EVO a while ago.

Or am I talking out of my ass ?

Originally posted by Stazi the Aussie:
Airknight, I suggest you better go study some more!

HA! Why do you think I have to retake that class for a better grade?

Originally posted by mcgainer:
Its not a straight bar with up-turned ends...its go a jog on the passenger side. So you have to perform bends w/out compromising the spring rate. Also...as you can get the Aussie bar (24mm hallow) for say $120..or the BAT bar (22mm solid?) for a little under that...

I think that there are parts you can fab yourself at a shop (trailing arms, caliper brackets, etc..) but anything involving a "spring rate" or rotational resistance involves a little more than eye-balling it...

FYI: The 95-97 Rear Sway bar was a straight bar. And since your screenname is tour96, I'm assuming that you have a 96.

But I still don't think you should try this on your own.

Are you sure your not thinking of strut tower brace. The 95 I worked on had a sway bar just like all the other tours!

-Andy

I meant a strut tower brace. the one that goes in the trunk... does that make a difference

Two complete different things! The sway bar connects the suspension to body to prevent it from body roll and help the weight of the body pull the rear around.

-Andy

I know what it does... that is why I want it but everybody said it wasnt possible... I prolly should have been more clear about what I want but when I tell people strut tower brace the look at me funny so I didnt want to use those words. well maybe I can make this myself after all...

Originally posted by StaticTour96:
I meant a strut tower brace. the one that goes in the trunk... does that make a difference

DOH! That's totally different! Yes, you can build your own strut tower brace.

Originally posted by AirKnight:

Originally posted by StaticTour96:
I meant a strut tower brace. the one that goes in the trunk... does that make a difference

DOH! That's totally different! Yes, you can build your own strut tower brace.

60 posts about not being able to do something.

now we learn it's because of incorrect terminology. build me one too while your at it.

ROTFLMFAOPMP

Sorry I have to call you out as trying to covering your ass! If you knew what an Anti-sway bar was there wouldn't have been any confusion. But it's all good!

-Andy

well it matters non on what you call me on but do you guys know what size pipe to use or anything??

May I suggest Thick wall Tubing steel, stainless. Or you can go with solid Aluminum stock 1" should be sufficient. I hope you don't want to use like galvanized pipe or black pipe. Stuff bends easily. Go to a scrap yard and look through a steel rack or aluminum rack you should be able to get it much cheaper then at a store. You should be able to get better alloys also. Just a suggestion

use something thick but not too heavy. weld it to the strut towers. if you ever want to get a good deal on a lotta steel, holler at me, i know some people.

Originally posted by Munch:
But come on, we all know we'd be better off w/ an extra long hot dog with a few hose clamps and some bolts. I'm in!

As I said previously, this would definitely be the way to go, even for a strut tower brace. Most especially if you are considering making a front brace:
engine heat + ballpark frank front strut tower brace + ketchup = yum!

If you are itching to make a homegrown rear brace, make sure you have a fairly good size footprint where it mounts to each of the towers. Use other braces on the market for guidelines - It will give some pretty good ideas.

Originally posted by Andy W.:
Are you sure your not thinking of strut tower brace. The 95 I worked on had a sway bar just like all the other tours!

-Andy

When I replaced my Rear Sway Bar with a 98 SVT Rear Sway Bar there was a big difference.

My original was just a straight bar while the SVT had the jog on the passenger side. I imagine it was changed to make room for something.