A fellow name of "martinst" just bought a set of these for his Mondeo:
martinst post
The geometry looks identical to the two bolt lower control arms I just bought for my 2000 SVT.
Heres the companie's web site:
Mondeo Poly Lower Control Arms - Click New Product Update
Originally posted by Question to Deflex:
Iâ??m very interested in your â??wishbonesâ? front control arms for the Ford Mondeo.
Can you tell me if these will fit late model Ford Contours. The geometry looks identical. I have a 1999 and a 2000 Ford Contour SVT.
Will you sell (and ship) to overseas addresses? Can you accept payment in US dollars?
Iâ??m a member of the Contour Enthusiast Group and Iâ??m sure there will be tremendous interest in this item if it fits and is available!
Originally posted by Response:
BELIEVE THEY WILL FIT THE 4 CYLINDER MODELS
I BELIEVE THE V6 USES A DIFFERENT WISHBONE WITH CONVENTIONAL BUSHES
WE HOPE TO BE ABLE TO SUPPLY THESE BUSHES WITHIN 2 WEEKS
REGARDS
STUART MASON
Not a definite "No." but still confusing. Will the "wishbone" shown work with conventional bushes or does it require a new "wishbone."
So, if I read this right, late model Mondeos use a different lower control arms for 4 cylinder and V6 models. Does that sound correct?
I want a set if they fit
Beats me boxing my own.
VERY interested. If they don't fit i could look into producing something similar.
~Josh
Are their prices lbs or euro? So they'd be $207-$300 for a pair.
Originally posted by question to deflex:
A little confused.
Do I need a different wishbone for my V6 Contour than the part you offer? Mondeos use different wishbones for 4 cylinder and V6 cars?
Or, Can I use the wishbone you offer now (metal part) with different bushes - a part that you will have available soon?
If this works out, I would like to buy one set to test on my 2000 SVT contour, followed by a much larger order as part of a "group buy" for the Contour Enthusiast group (CEG).
Originally posted by deflex answer:
hi
as i understand it - the wishbone on a 4 cylinder mondeo is different to the V6
Our arms can only be used on 4 cylinder models
the V6 uses a similar shape wisbone but the orientation of the bush is conventional - that is the axis of the movement of the arm is in line with the centre hole of the bush.
this is applicable to UK models - it might be different in the USA
I can clarify this if you can fax me or email me a pic of the front suspension layout for both the 4 cylinder and V6 contours
regards
Anyone have pics of "the the front suspension layout for both the 4 cylinder and V6 contours?"
Different engines do not entail different control arms designs for Contours. Early/Late Model year difference, sure â??? but not drive train differences. It might be useful to show him that I guess.
I wonder why Ford went that route with Mondeos?
Is there any chance that this guy is confused about V6 Mondeos? The arm in the picture looks like it could bolt right on my car.
I think, if his information is accurate, that Ford possibly went with 4 bolt LCAs on the mondeo v6s. Possibly because the 4 bolt LCAs are a bit better design from what I understand.
But since our cars all use the same LCAs regardless of engine, I'd be willing to bet those would swap onto any contour with 2 bolt LCAs.
I just bought LCAs about 4 weeks ago.
I'd have sprung for those - just to be different.
Originally posted by TourDeForce:
I just bought LCAs about 4 weeks ago.
I'd have sprung for those - just to be different.
I just bought LCAs last week. If they lower the price for a GB, I might be interested, but I don't want to spend $250 for them.
I've been looking in to doing something similiar to this for many years. I'm now about to install my THIRD SET OF FRONT A ARMS!
The quoted price is reasonable based on what is involved! There's an tremendous amount of custom fabrication req'd plus the cost of bushings and new ball joints. They must be overbuilt to eliminate any chance of failure and subsequent litigation.
The main reason I never offered anything for sale is that the disposable Ford arms are cheap and not many here w/b willing to fork over the $200-300 cost for this type of A arm.
As soon as Ford doubles or triples the price on the stock arms, like they've done on many other parts for our cars (rr sway bar brackets, frt end links, etc.), I'll reconsider making them for sale.
Originally posted by morbid:
Are their prices lbs or euro? So they'd be $207-$300 for a pair.
Price is in British Pounds, so with current rates it's approx 338.892 USD or 374.476 CAD before freight from the UK.
Originally posted by TourDeForce:
I just bought LCAs about 4 weeks ago.
I'd have sprung for those - just to be different.
you mean like this?
Originally posted by bensenvill:
http://www.mrgoodbytes.com/images/neco/upsup/FLCA.jpg
I'm curious to see just how many degrees of travel you're going to get out of those.....My design utilized high misalignment sphearicle bearings good to about 45 degrees, I see you getting about 17-25 total degrees of travel out of those...will it be enough?
honestly, I dont know what to expect from them. there are a few others running them and I have yet to hear any complaints [not that that means anything]. but its definitely something I am going to keep my eye on
I'll be ordering these at the end of the month so i'll get some measurements when they arrive if you guys want?
There is no rubber or poly so expect them to be very harsh. They will be fine with any up and down wheel movement, but any wheel motion fore/aft cannot be absorbed for with this type of design. This is the type of motion the wheel sees when hitting a pothole, manhole cover, speed bump, etc.
Now if your car is a "track queen", there should be no worries. But on the type of potholed roads we have here, the spot welds on the chassis would be popping out after a short drive.
Bradness- If you have an extra arm uninstalled, could you take measurements to compare with the mondy arms?
The wishbones fitted perfectly on my v6 mondeo. The V6 and the zetec have the same wishbone configuration. The only mondeo with different wishbones are the ST200 which have the same setup as the UK cougars. I can take measurements or photos of the wishbones I removed if you need a comparison.
I'm more than happy to help out !
This may help with getting an idea if the contour is similar to the mondeo. !
Well the two bolt design looks the same as our two bolt set up (some tours are different), but we are wondering if the actual dimensions are the same.
I've just measured the origional ford wishbone ( new ones are the same )
The passenger side - ( UK )
Ford part No- 120398 97BG-3051-AA P822X
Distance between bushes - 283mm ( centre to centre )
Distance between centre of front bush to centre of wheel pivot pin - 340mm
Distance between centre of rear bush to centre of wheel pivot pin - 365mm.
The drivers side ( UK )
Ford part No - 140298 97BG-3042-AA P822X
Dimensions are the same.
Hope this is of some use !!
Measuring NEW BAT LCA:
Originally posted by martinst:
I've just measured the origional ford wishbone ( new ones are the same )
The passenger side - ( UK )
Ford part No- 120398 97BG-3051-AA P822X
Distance between bushes - 283mm ( centre to centre )
Confirmed.
Originally posted by martinst:
Distance between centre of front bush to centre of wheel pivot pin - 340mm
Confirmed.
Originally posted by martinst:
Distance between centre of rear bush to centre of wheel pivot pin - 365mm.
CONFIRMED!!
Looks like these will fit US spec Contiques & Cougars if the ball joint pin is the same diameter. If not, I suppose a US spec ball joint could be installed easy enough...
Who's gonna be first?
Martin, willing to ship a set to the new world? 
Originally posted by Bradness:
There is no rubber or poly so expect them to be very harsh.
Bradness is referencing the Cougar arms here. Just wanted that to be clear. Although the Cougar arm may be a bit harsh, I see the potential for those to significantly reduce wheel hop. Any reports on that aspect of the Cougar arms??
The Mondy arm measures out same as the Contique arms and appears to have ample bushing material at the subframe connections to absorb vibration, impacts, road irregualarity shocks, & other stresses.
I started a reply about the Mondy arms & then double checked what I was responding to because Bradness is so rarely wrong. Sure as shootin', he's right & I was goin' off half cocked. 
Still no love for us 4 bolters...
If anyone needs any communication with deflex and want me to sort out a set for them give me a pm and I'll see what I can do !!
Originally posted by ohsigmachi:
Still no love for us 4 bolters...
I know
Sorta related to this, the Mondeo ST200 4-bolts are identical to the ones off my SVT, down to the part number stamped on them even.
So... if there's anyone making stuff for the ST200, us 4-bolters can use em.
Hey Chris. What measurements do you want? I only have 4 bolt arms.
My guess is that they're the same.
Originally posted by TourDeForce:
Originally posted by Bradness:
There is no rubber or poly so expect them to be very harsh.
Bradness is referencing the Cougar arms here. Just wanted that to be clear. Although the Cougar arm may be a bit harsh, I see the potential for those to significantly reduce wheel hop. Any reports on that aspect of the Cougar arms??
The Mondy arm measures out same as the Contique arms and appears to have ample bushing material at the subframe connections to absorb vibration, impacts, road irregualarity shocks, & other stresses.
I started a reply about the Mondy arms & then double checked what I was responding to because Bradness is so rarely wrong. Sure as shootin', he's right & I was goin' off half cocked.
Now I haven't worked on A arms for any Cougars, but aren't they the same as those for the Contours? Did all Cougars come with 2 bolt arms or were there any that came with 4 bolt arms?
Also, my experience with boxed Stock A arms is that they do in fact reduce transaxle destroying "wheel hop". Only problem is I do all the work of reinforcing and then lightening them and the damn bushings go in a couple of years.
Need a poly solution... and I'm still searching for bushings which will be a direct fit!
I'm going to buy one set of these control arms for my 99 SVT (or at least try!). I'm not planning to install my turbo 3L until fall, but I can work out the suspension and brake issues now with the stock drivetrain.
If this turns out OK for me and there is enough interest, I may be willing to serve as a group-buy coordinator. But donâ??t hold your breathe on this â??? The earliest I can start a group buy will be July with parts delivery in August.
I absolutely want to test these on my own car first before getting others involved.
BUTâ?¦if someone else wants to start a group buy earlierâ?¦Iâ??m in!
You talkin' for the Cougar tubular arms or the Mondeo arms?
Originally posted by TourDeForce:
You talkin' for the Cougar tubular arms or the Mondeo arms?
Aftermarket Mondeo arms (see the first picture at top of post).
Originally posted by Bradness:
Originally posted by TourDeForce:
Originally posted by Bradness:
There is no rubber or poly so expect them to be very harsh.
Bradness is referencing the Cougar arms here. Just wanted that to be clear. Although the Cougar arm may be a bit harsh, I see the potential for those to significantly reduce wheel hop. Any reports on that aspect of the Cougar arms??
The Mondy arm measures out same as the Contique arms and appears to have ample bushing material at the subframe connections to absorb vibration, impacts, road irregualarity shocks, & other stresses.
I started a reply about the Mondy arms & then double checked what I was responding to because Bradness is so rarely wrong. Sure as shootin', he's right & I was goin' off half cocked.
Now I haven't worked on A arms for any Cougars, but aren't they the same as those for the Contours? Did all Cougars come with 2 bolt arms or were there any that came with 4 bolt arms?
the cougar LCA's are identical to the contours. And the Cougar also came with 2bolt and 4bolt arms... I could be mistaken but I beleive only the early 99's had the 2 bolt [possibly the 2000's] but the 01-02 definitely had 4 bolts.
Originally posted by bensenvill:
I could be mistaken but I beleive only the early 99's had the 2 bolt [possibly the 2000's] but the 01-02 definitely had 4 bolts.
Sounds backwords.....newer cars have the 2-bolt setup IIRC.
Late model cougars went back to the 4bolt arms if I am not misaken.
I wonder if BAT would be willing to bring those mondy arms over here.
Also... are the bushings in those mondy arms replaceable?
Um, you guys do realize that poly bushings on the 2-bolt arms is just increasing the effective spring rate for the front end, right?
This is why the 4-bolt arms are considered better, because the bushings themselves don't contribute to the effective spring rate of the corner. If you want a true upgrade to the stock arm that will actually improve function, look at something more like the ones bensenvill posted above.
that and they are cooler looking
Originally posted by Rara:
Um, you guys do realize that poly bushings on the 2-bolt arms is just increasing the effective spring rate for the front end, right?
This is why the 4-bolt arms are considered better, because the bushings themselves don't contribute to the effective spring rate of the corner. If you want a true upgrade to the stock arm that will actually improve function, look at something more like the ones bensenvill posted above.
OK. Where can I get a set?
Originally posted by JEDsContour:
OK. Where can I get a set?
contact Stangkiller on NECO [he doesnt log in all that often anymore and he may or may not be willing to make more of them.... but he is great to deal with!]
Originally posted by Rara:
If you want a true upgrade to the stock arm that will actually improve function, look at something more like the ones bensenvill posted above.
Or the ones i'm working on..... 
Originally posted by Jager-bud120:
Originally posted by Rara:
If you want a true upgrade to the stock arm that will actually improve function, look at something more like the ones bensenvill posted above.
Or the ones i'm working on.....
Perhaps we should talk then . . .
Just thought i would let you know guys i have ordered a set of these arms but they now include camber adjustment.
They will be with me in about 2 weeks so i'll get some pics up for you as soon as they arrive.
Originally posted by PEWTNERST24:
Just thought i would let you know guys i have ordered a set of these arms but they now include camber adjustment.
They will be with me in about 2 weeks so i'll get some pics up for you as soon as they arrive.
I'm real interested in this. I keep going back and forth whether to pay the price for these (exchange ratio not in my favor) and I do have a brand new set of ford arms here.
However, with adjustable camber, Iâ??m sold. Saves using camber kits on the strut mounts.
What part number did you order to get these? How much camber adjustment is available? Do they have a picture of the camber adjustment mechanism on their website (I couldnâ??t find one)?
This sounds like a good product for us.
was there something added to it to allow camber adjustment? i dont see anything on the pic shown
Quote:
Still no love for us 4 bolters...
Too bad we don't get wheel hop!
Originally posted by BiggsvT28:
Quote:
Still no love for us 4 bolters...
Too bad we don't get wheel hop!
Neither do I, 2 bolt and all! 
Not anymore at least. . . .
I still don't understand why anyone would want polyurethane bushings on the 2-bolt arms. . . it goes counter to all smart suspension tuning. Granted, the 2-bolt arms start it down that road anyway, but still, no sense in making a bad thing worse.
Originally posted by Rara:
I still don't understand why anyone would want polyurethane bushings on the 2-bolt arms. . . it goes counter to all smart suspension tuning. Granted, the 2-bolt arms start it down that road anyway, but still, no sense in making a bad thing worse.
The seemingly total lack of other options - except of course the OEM arms, known to not hold up well with a lowered suspension.
What parts of "smart suspension tuning" do these arms violate? I'm not doubting it, just trying to decide if the trade-offs are justified. If nothing else, I think these arms should help reduce wheel-hop under turbo 3L acceleration and should practically never need replacement.
Replacement issues is the reason i am getting these because i have gone through 3 of these in 3 years and i am just getting pi$$ed off of changing them.
As for the arms guys i will be getting the first set they make so there is no pics anywhere at the moment. Deflex told me the camber adjustment will be at the ball joint end and thats about all i know at the moment. I think it must be better than the SPC kit.
The price is a little more with the camber at ?£260.
As soon as they are with me i'll get some pics up as i said.
Too bad adjusting camber by pulling in the control arm will crush the drive axles.
Originally posted by ExDelayed:
Too bad adjusting camber by pulling in the control arm will crush the drive axles.
Ahh, if only Deflex had you on their engineering staff.
I hope whatever they make is pretty damn robust as you do not want a ball joint failure. The arm pictured looks "bullet proof" to me - without camber adjustment.
Its not my car, so do with it what you wish.
The 1 degree or so at the top of the strut is nothing for the CV axle. That same amount of movement in the control arm is quite a bit.
And, since people tend to listen when some of the more vocal CEGer's talk, here is Stazi's take.
Originally posted by Stazi:
Essentially you shorten the distance between the tranny and the wheel which reduces the amount of plunge on the inner Tripod Joint. Hence the catastrohpic failure.
Source: Clicky.
Originally posted by ExDelayed:
Its not my car, so do with it what you wish.
The 1 degree or so at the top of the strut is nothing for the CV axle. That same amount of movement in the control arm is quite a bit.
Not saying you're wrong, it would just be odd if they didn't have some type of drivetrain engineer involved in the design (litigation issues alone). What you bring up is one of the reasons I asked just how much adjustment there is.
How far in does the ball joint need to be moved? If they really wanted to be custom, they could ask the customer how much lowering they need and cut the ball joint mounting holes to compensate. No concerns over something coming loose that way.
Iâ??m curious to see what they come up with and hope it doesn't bind the axles as you've pointed out.
Tbh i cant see a company selling a product to the public without carrying out tests for strenth and durability.
I recall an email correspondence I had with Powerflex (UK co.) some time ago about replacement poly bushings for the Mondeo which they were working on. The reply I rec'd from the technical staff at Powerflex went something like "the 2 arm bushing is one of the worst designs they had seen and poly was totally incompatible with this suspension". They went on to explain that they had tried different durometer specs for the bushings and they had all failed under test.
Now I can understand the frustration that we all have with this part as I too am about to change my front A arnms for the third time. I'm fortunate in that my cars have all been 4 bolt arms and that at long last, there is a solution on the horizon.
If you wish to know about suspension design, look at any race or high performance car suspension. Suspension pivots are on a horizontal axis, not a vertical 1. This is just a bad design and more than likely why Ford went back to the 4 bolt arms with later Cougar production.
Originally posted by Bradness:
I recall an email correspondence I had with Powerflex (UK co.) some time ago about replacement poly bushings for the Mondeo which they were working on. The reply I rec'd from the technical staff at Powerflex went something like "the 2 arm bushing is one of the worst designs they had seen and poly was totally incompatible with this suspension". They went on to explain that they had tried different durometer specs for the bushings and they had all failed under test.
Now I can understand the frustration that we all have with this part as I too am about to change my front A arnms for the third time. I'm fortunate in that my cars have all been 4 bolt arms and that at long last, there is a solution on the horizon.
If you wish to know about suspension design, look at any race or high performance car suspension. Suspension pivots are on a horizontal axis, not a vertical 1. This is just a bad design and more than likely why Ford went back to the 4 bolt arms with later Cougar production.
Bingo. The bushings are already a very poor design on the stock arm. The design of the bushings does not allow free movement of the arm up and down, as there is no real pivot line, only the rubber deflection that allows the arm to move up and down. If you replace the bushing with a harder material, it only makes it harder for the arm to move up and down, which makes the suspension work even less than w/ the crappy stock stuff. Some of you guys are comlaining about lack of options, but just because these parts are an option doesn't make it a good option, or even a "better than stock" option.
And as far as the linked post from the past, yeah, you shouldn't be using the lower arm to decrease camber, for exactly the reasons stated by stazi and capaldi. If you are that far gone, you have lowered your car too far beyond what is good for the suspension geometry.
Somebody want to send me a set of 2 bolt arms that have bad bushings, but good balljoints and I'll see what I can come up with for a better option? My takeout arms got pitched last time I changed mine . . .
Originally posted by PEWTNERST24:
Something I Noticed From This Pic...Is That Looks Like The New Replacement Ball Joint From MOOG, Which Uses Internal Lubrication And Eliminates The Grease Boot. Greasing Is Now In The Form Of A Zert In the Bottom Of The Ball Joint. I Don't Know About Anybody Else But I Have As Many Problems With Ball Joint Failures As I Do With Control Arm Bushings.
I Just Picked Up New Ball Joints From None Other Than "O'really's", And I Must Say That I'm Very Impressed With How Much Better The Ball Joint Is Designed. The Boot In The Photo Above Is Mearly A Dust Cover. Any Thoughts On This??
I'm Very Interested In Seeing Where This Thread Leads Us. Im In the Market For A New Set Of 4-Bolt LCA's, And Would Love To Be Kept Posted On Our Fellow CEGer's Engineering Of Some Good LCA's.
I Def. Agree With Rara's And Others Post On The 4-bolt Vs. 2-bolt Superiority. I Don't However Agree With Ford's Pricepoint For Those Bastids!!!!!!!!! 
Originally posted by Pale Horse:
Something I Noticed From This Pic...Is That Looks Like The New Replacement Ball Joint From MOOG, Which Uses Internal Lubrication And Eliminates The Grease Boot. Greasing Is Now In The Form Of A Zert In the Bottom Of The Ball Joint.
You KNow ForD Makes THem Liek That 2 nOw rIgHt?
Originally posted by Pale Horse:
I Just Picked Up New Ball Joints From None Other Than "O'really's"
dood... you almost made me spray my monitor. That owl cracks me up.
Anyways... slightly OT, but it is possible to convert to 4 bolt from 2 bolt? Is it just the subframe and the arm, or is there more to it?
Originally posted by morbid:
dood... you almost made me spray my monitor. That owl cracks me up.
Anyways... slightly OT, but it is possible to convert to 4 bolt from 2 bolt? Is it just the subframe and the arm, or is there more to it?
I think so but I'll wait for someone to answer for sure. I'd like to do this conversion to my 2000 since I have a 98 parts car available with subframe.
Originally posted by SVT4STD:
Originally posted by morbid:
dood... you almost made me spray my monitor. That owl cracks me up.
Anyways... slightly OT, but it is possible to convert to 4 bolt from 2 bolt? Is it just the subframe and the arm, or is there more to it?
I think so but I'll wait for someone to answer for sure. I'd like to do this conversion to my 2000 since I have a 98 parts car available with subframe.
off hand I don't see why not, the subframe bolt points seem the same on all the V6's I have worked on, The suspension geometry has to be the same but I am not sure, since the mounts are interchangable then that part of the frame would have to be the same
Tony you might just have to try it out and see
Originally posted by todras:
Originally posted by Pale Horse:
Something I Noticed From This Pic...Is That Looks Like The New Replacement Ball Joint From MOOG, Which Uses Internal Lubrication And Eliminates The Grease Boot. Greasing Is Now In The Form Of A Zert In the Bottom Of The Ball Joint.
You KNow ForD Makes THem Liek That 2 nOw rIgHt?
No I Didn't Know That... Do You Know Off Hand What The Price Is For The Ford Part?? I Don't Frequent The Stealership At All Anymore, Unless The Part Cant Be Had Somewhere Else And We Can't Fabricate It.
Originally posted by morbid:
.. slightly OT, but it is possible to convert to 4 bolt from 2 bolt? Is it just the subframe and the arm, or is there more to it?
It's necessary to replace the subframe if you want to use the superior 4 bolt A arms. I've had my subframe out and it is definitely not a job for beginners. Replacing the rubber subframe to chassis bushings are a huge PITA!
As an aside, has anyone priced up ball joints? In the past, my bushings never outlasted the ball joints, but the ones I'm making now will be totally rebuildable (bushings & ball joints).
Originally posted by Bradness:
It's necessary to replace the subframe if you want to use the superior 4 bolt A arms. I've had my subframe out and it is definitely not a job for beginners. Replacing the rubber subframe to chassis bushings are a huge PITA!
As an aside, has anyone priced up ball joints? In the past, my bushings never outlasted the ball joints, but the ones I'm making now will be totally rebuildable (bushings & ball joints).
I Just Bought The MOOG Ball Joints From O'Really's @ 37.70 With My 10% Discount. As Posted Above, They Are The New And Improved Ball Joints That I Have Been Informed That Ford Sells Now As Well (Style, Not Manufacturer). Thay Come With Mounting Hardware, Not Sure Of Grade Yet. I Haven't Open The Hardware Packet, A Zert Fitting, And The Dust Cover...Which Could Be Very Easily Replaced With The Poly Urethane Boot/Cover From "Prothane".
Originally posted by todras:
$19 from Bill Jenkins.
[will farrel/on=anchorman] By The Beard Of Zeus That's Cheap!!! [will farrel/off]
Originally posted by Bradness:
As an aside, has anyone priced up ball joints? In the past, my bushings never outlasted the ball joints, but the ones I'm making now will be totally rebuildable (bushings & ball joints).
Umm look at the post above this one. $19 from Bill Jenkins. Just drill/grind out the rivets and bolt em on.
Part # F5RZ-3V078-B
Edit: They are $28 from Bill. They must have gone up a little. Still better than replacing the LCA if they are in good shape!
What is the latest here folks? I am very interested in a set of these LCA's. Group buy going ahead?
I'm still waiting for my adjustable ones to arrive.
2 weeks they told me and its now 5 weeks tomorrow
Have they shipped yet? Buying things from overseas is always a hassle.