I have been thinking about going the N/A route with my car, tell me what you guys think of this plan...
So far I'm thinking of buying a Zetec engine off ebay, tear it apart, have it bored and stroked, bigger pistons, new rods, new custom ground cams, same for the crank, have the head shaved, ported and polished, with bigger valves, titanium valve springs, opt. TB, have the LIM and UIM dual honed, CAI, Brullen or custom exhaust, customize a header for it, like Hector did, UDP, and Cam gears... Also, install an LSD, new clutch (not sure which clutch yet) and that's about all I can think of now... Any suggestions?
UMMMM turbo?
How much are you looking to spend? What is your goal for HP/TQ?
Originally posted by Escort1991:
UMMMM turbo?
How much are you looking to spend? What is your goal for HP/TQ?
Well I wanted to go the N/A route just to see how much power can be squeezed out of this engine without a Turbo or N20... As far as spending, what ever it takes to get all this work done... As for HP/TQ maybe somehwere around 225HP and 200 lb/ft of TQ something close to that... I know I could spend 3-4K on a turbo and get those numbers easy, but like I said, I just want to see how much N/A power the Zetec can make...
you'll need some new injectors, MAF and engine management to support 200+ hp.
Originally posted by ohsigmachi:
you'll need some new injectors, MAF and engine management to support 200+ hp.
Something I didn't think of, thanks... What rate injectors would you suggest? Where could I get the MAF? And what engine management are you talking about? Obviously these are some things I don't know much about lol
You might be better finding a blown engine from a boneyard. It would probably be cheaper. Why buy an engine that works to replace everything that keeps it working?
Originally posted by bk4293:
You might be better finding a blown engine from a boneyard. It would probably be cheaper. Why buy an engine that works to replace everything that keeps it working?
Good point, problem around here is not many junkyards have contours... I have only seen 1 contour in a junkyard up here that was wrecked, I'll give them a call and see if they still have it and have them check the engine for me, I am pretty sure it was a Zetec...
Sounds like a fun project. Good luck and take plenty of pics and keep us informed
If you replace everything but the block and head castings..is it STILL a Zetec??
Originally posted by Dan Nixon:
If you replace everything but the block and head castings..is it STILL a Zetec??
I guess it would remain a Zetec, just a better Zetec, or worse if I'm not as smart as I think I am lol
Originally posted by CRZYDRVR:
Sounds like a fun project. Good luck and take plenty of pics and keep us informed
I probably won't start this venture for quite some time, just throwing the idea out now to see what others think... But give me sometime and I will get it done one of these days... I'm in the process of starting a new job now, so kinda strapped for cash, but I figuer I could go ahead and buy an engine tear it apart and do what I can when I can, so this will be a long project, plus I know I don't know enough about it to do this all right now... That will change, after I start this job I am going to get my ASE cert. and then switch jobs again most likely...
Originally posted by Dan Nixon:
If you replace everything but the block and head castings..is it STILL a Zetec??
yes he isn't replacing the head just having some work done to it.
if you are looking to have the heads done why not just buy a pre done kit ZXtuner has a few options for heads for the Zetec...
Hey, I'm sure this has been asked before, but how hard is it to fit a Focus SVT motor into the Tour???
Flame me and Die !!!!!!!!!
I like flames they look so cool
Originally posted by bk4293:
Hey, I'm sure this has been asked before, but how hard is it to fit a Focus SVT motor into the Tour???
Flame me and Die !!!!!!!!!
Very hard, next idea please.
you don't need a zetec from a contour, u can pull one from any wrecked zx2,zx3,zx5,4cyl cougar,and 4cyl escape (don't they have zetecs?)
Originally posted by Kremithefrog:
you don't need a zetec from a contour, u can pull one from any wrecked zx2,zx3,zx5,4cyl cougar,and 4cyl escape (don't they have zetecs?)
They are all different than our Zetec in little ways.
yeah, but if you're replacing everything, does it matter???
Umm nevermind.
do people still not realize not all zetec were created equally some have VCT some don't some have this some have that.
Easiest way...go to a boneyard, rip a Zetec engine out. Have the block checked to make sure someone didn't forget to add coolant or that the easiest way to make a rod evacuate is thru the block...sorry...in other words, cracked block? RED FLAG! Holes where there weren't any before??? RED FLAG! Remember guys, he is starting off with a Contour. The idea out there is to buy a used engine off ebay...This although, not bad to have in terms of spare engines, inherently WILL have some flaws in it. The idea to use a block from a Zetec from a junkyard has a couple good things going for it. A)Overall cost...think about shipping an engine to your door...unless you just feel like driving, B)There MAY be a few things that can be replaced or crossbred into the contour engine. But again, looking at what you want to do, start by finding a good block and do your machine work, buy the pistons, buy the extra parts and just start sinking the stuff in. As for the head, check around. Most good j-yards have the ability to check around for other yards that may even have a decent head for that car.
Lots of variables....you need to do LOTS of mad research to figure some things out. You can make it happen and when you do we will want the Dyno slips
L8R
Rich
Originally posted by ZetecRacing:
if you are looking to have the heads done why not just buy a pre done kit ZXtuner has a few options for heads for the Zetec...
I seen that, Probably something I will do instead of working with the old head..
Originally posted by sosaudio1:
Easiest way...go to a boneyard, rip a Zetec engine out. Have the block checked to make sure someone didn't forget to add coolant or that the easiest way to make a rod evacuate is thru the block...sorry...in other words, cracked block? RED FLAG! Holes where there weren't any before??? RED FLAG! Remember guys, he is starting off with a Contour. The idea out there is to buy a used engine off ebay...This although, not bad to have in terms of spare engines, inherently WILL have some flaws in it. The idea to use a block from a Zetec from a junkyard has a couple good things going for it. A)Overall cost...think about shipping an engine to your door...unless you just feel like driving, B)There MAY be a few things that can be replaced or crossbred into the contour engine. But again, looking at what you want to do, start by finding a good block and do your machine work, buy the pistons, buy the extra parts and just start sinking the stuff in. As for the head, check around. Most good j-yards have the ability to check around for other yards that may even have a decent head for that car.
Lots of variables....you need to do LOTS of mad research to figure some things out. You can make it happen and when you do we will want the Dyno slips
L8R
Rich
I know the original plan has some flaws in it, this is just something I came up with in about 10 mins of thinking lol That's the reason I posted it here is get everyones opinions and suggestions and wisdom, which I don't have, I am fairly smart when it comes to engines, but I know there is alot more I need to know before doing something like this, so any little bit of information helps...
Thanks for all the feedback so far, this is exactly what I was looking for when I posted this...
You want to do the same thing I am doing! My goal is to get around 200-250 HP out my Zetec N/A and when I acomplish that, then I am going to go with the turbo. Should be good for about 350-400 HP if I am lucky. I am glad to see I am not the only one here lacking sanity when it comes to modding Zetecs!
Originally posted by remy:
You want to do the same thing I am doing! My goal is to get around 200-250 HP out my Zetec N/A and when I acomplish that, then I am going to go with the turbo. Should be good for about 350-400 HP if I am lucky. I am glad to see I am not the only one here lacking sanity when it comes to modding Zetecs!
ummm I'm doing alot of the things like you and him I just being a little hush hush about what exactly all I am doing till I finished
Originally posted by remy:
You want to do the same thing I am doing! My goal is to get around 200-250 HP out my Zetec N/A and when I acomplish that, then I am going to go with the turbo. Should be good for about 350-400 HP if I am lucky. I am glad to see I am not the only one here lacking sanity when it comes to modding Zetecs!
Problem with that (getting the Zetec up to 200-250Hp) is you will most likey have a higher compression, something the turbo doesn't like.
Don't want a blown Zetec.
You would really have to completely rebuild the engine if you wanted to add a turbo to it after you do the N/A setup... I am going to build this engine NA and my old motor I am going to setup with a turbo, have 2 powerful engines for the car, what could be more fun lol Of course this is all plan, I will not know how much I can do until after I get this job and get settled and start saving some money... So this will be a long project for me and something fun to do...
I have been contemplating a similar project for my girlfriends focus....I have a few comments.
First, why go through the expense of having custom cams ground? There are a wide variety of z-tech cams out there. In fairness, I'm not sure where the variable cam timing thing comes into play in terms of interchangability, but I don't see why you couldn't just put in a focus motor and computer if it becomes a problem, the sensors and wiring should be very close to identical.
Second, I don't know if stroking it is a good idea. Being a small displacement engine, you are looking for RPMS to get substantial horsepower gains...longer stroke plus higher rpms equals greater piston velocity. That will not increase engine durability. Also, I'm not sure how strong the stock crank is to begin with, a substantial increase in horsepower plus a decrease in journal diameters due to offset grinding could result in a big boom. Also, the displacement increase will probably be negligable on such a small engine, .2 liters would probably be the max. Also, does anyone make undersized rod bearings??? On a side note to this train of thought, I did see a forged z-tech crank for sale on line somewhere for $2400.
Third, don't shave the head, this will mess up your belt length for driving the cams. All compression changes should be done with pistons. Custom pistons aren't that expensive, and you seem willing to spend the money anyway.
Fourth, look into cylinder wall thickness before overboring. I am personally going to shy away from it because I'm planning on keeping the compression down in my project so I can turbo it later. I want some meat there if there will be boost involved.
Fifth, titanium rods. I also saw z-tech titanium rods for sale on the internet. They were also $2400. Half the weight and twice the strenght of steel rods. Less reciprocating weight results in more power to the wheels. Following this logic, an aluminum flywheel should also be considered.
Sixth, after re-camming the motor, and preparing for the inevitable higher RPM operation, you will probably want a new ring gear for the tranny. Something lower will get you out of the low RPMs (where you won't be making much power) quicker. The SVT focus six speed might be a nice idea because the motor could potentially be very "peaky" and more variety in gear selection would help stay in the power band.
Seventh, consider having the intakes acid dipped to increase the volume of air available in the intake at any given time. You may come out ahead with this approach in high RPM use since you will lose some port velocity (low end torque) but the greater volume will make more power available at high rpms. Also, look into SVT focus induction, it is revised considerably from the contour 4 cyl.
Eigth, I like the idea of titanium valne springs, but in fairness it probably isn't really necessary. I would opt for titanium wrist pins first to decrease reciprocating weight.
Let me know what you think.
-FD
What I think? hell you keep going, I'm liking this lol See as I stated before "I know I don't know enough about this to do it all right now" So this information you gave is very useful to me, As far as keeping the compression low, I am not adding a turbo to this engine, I know lower compression is ideal for turbo equipped engines, but for NA engines, higher compression = more power... The cams, I have checked out ZX2racing.com and I like the setups they have and good prices, so I will more than likely go through ZX2racing.com for cams and head... The lightweight flywheel is another thing I am going to do reguardless of what engine I have, that goes for the LSD and new clutch too...
This is the reason I posted this, to get everyones thoughts on it, and so far everyone has been very helpful... I thank you for your input, somethings I haven't really thought about, I did however think about putting a Focus Zetec in it, which is something that I might do, I know the mounting points are probably different, but I could take care of that... The 6 spd from the SVTF I didn't think about, is it better in anyway, other than having another gear, than the MTX75?
Another thing I was thinking of was after building up an NA motor for it, was taking the stock motor and building it with a turbo and N20, It would be nice to have both...
Anymore insight is welcomed by all, good or bad...
The Focus SVT engine is better with dual mode intake, 4-2-1 header, stronger rods, higher compression, and 6 speed, but at the same time can't handle more than the power than the MTX75.
I was thinking more about thins today.... Doesn't the Zetec in the SVT focus have a two stage intake very similar to the intake in the duratech contour? I believe so. That would probably be a good intake setup. The SVT focus headder would probably be inadequate for the motor I think we are talking about building. A full length headder and absent catalytic converter would be the way to go.
I suggested the SVT focus tranny simply for the increased variety of gear ratios. I think I need to put a qualifier on that idea though.... A LSD is more important than more gears. If there is no LSD available for the SVT focus tranny, then stick with the MTX75. I don't think there is an LSD available for the 6 speed currently, but I wouldn't be surprised to see one from somewhere sooner or later.
Unless ford comes out with a high performance zetec block, I would suggest rebuilding a low milage engine (30,000ish miles). That way, the block is "seasoned" the heat cycling has done pretty much all the warping that it will do at that point. You can then have a VERY GOOD ENGINE BUILDER (in my opinion this is key) do a minimal overbore, torque-plate hone the cylinder walls. Also an align hone of the mains is a good idea. All of these will decrease friction. That means more power and.
I was thinking about valve springs again.... I remember you said something about titanium. I think that decision should be reserved until cams are selected. Once you do this, you will basically know wht the redline will be, and can make an informed decision on the valve springs. I did read that titanium springs last 10 times as long as steel springs. Also, they do not "take a set" (tweek themselves to suit a specific installation) like steel springs which could be an advantage in a very high performance motor.
Okay, I'm all thought out on this subject. If only I had some money, I'd be all set.
-FD
FWIW (as I am not a zetecer) I think a (the) key problem with zetec is the small valves relative to cylinder displacement. The SVTF head is new with big valves and big ports...could maybe get SVTF big valves (with upgraded springs & retainers) installed with appropriate porting.. zetec intake manifold looks bad as well, the variable runner style SVTF intake looks nice (and NOT like the duratec). cams as hot as you want next.. Now you are cooking..Well the nodular iron crank may be an issue over 8-8.5K?? rods, pistons..thats alot of cash guys..
Originally posted by Dan Nixon:
FWIW (as I am not a zetecer) I think a (the) key problem with zetec is the small valves relative to cylinder displacement. The SVTF head is new with big valves and big ports...could maybe get SVTF big valves (with upgraded springs & retainers) installed with appropriate porting.. zetec intake manifold looks bad as well, the variable runner style SVTF intake looks nice (and NOT like the duratec). cams as hot as you want next.. Now you are cooking..Well the nodular iron crank may be an issue over 8-8.5K?? rods, pistons..thats alot of cash guys..
1 the valves... Esslinger makes much better oversized valves than the ones found on the SVTF
2 the crank.... it can handle upto 8000+rpm stock. higher yes I would replace it
3 what sucks is we have to replace the stock mainfold if we want better flow from it unlike the duratec we can't extrude hone it cause ford was nice enough to give us plastic
that and the thing looks like a maze
Originally posted by ZetecRacing:
the thing looks like a maze
true, but it helps the car not be too loud or powerful for the old ladies.
Originally posted by ZetecRacing:
Originally posted by Dan Nixon:
FWIW (as I am not a zetecer) I think a (the) key problem with zetec is the small valves relative to cylinder displacement. The SVTF head is new with big valves and big ports...could maybe get SVTF big valves (with upgraded springs & retainers) installed with appropriate porting.. zetec intake manifold looks bad as well, the variable runner style SVTF intake looks nice (and NOT like the duratec). cams as hot as you want next.. Now you are cooking..Well the nodular iron crank may be an issue over 8-8.5K?? rods, pistons..thats alot of cash guys..
1 the valves... Esslinger makes much better oversized valves than the ones found on the SVTF
2 the crank.... it can handle upto 8000+rpm stock. higher yes I would replace it
3 what sucks is we have to replace the stock mainfold if we want better flow from it unlike the duratec we can't extrude hone it cause ford was nice enough to give us plastic that and the thing looks like a maze
Focus Central (www.focus-central.com) ports the Zetec intake manifold. Yes it is pricey ($250 plus $170 core) but it has shown gains of 10 hp on some cars.
it will fit no problem but do you have a spare 6 speed MTX tranny and a SVT focus computer laying around and your not telling us???