Contour Enthusiasts Group Archives
Posted By: Ed6407 New Member: What should I do? - 02/26/06 06:02 AM
Alright, I've got a 97 contour with the 2.0L zetec. I love the thing to death. I already have a nice stereo in and working on some cosmetics, but I'm not yet sure what I want to do as far as performance. I have a 95 contour with the 2.0L zetec as a parts car (has a blown headgasket)and didnt know if it would be worth pullin the motor out of the 95 and doin work to the motor while I still drive my car? I'm not yet familiar with the posibilites the car may have and if anyone thinks it would be worth it, what could I do? I don't want a racecar by any means but I'd like to have some more power out of it.
Posted By: Loco4G63 Re: New Member: What should I do? - 02/26/06 06:27 AM
Auto or manual?
Posted By: Ed6407 Re: New Member: What should I do? - 02/26/06 06:28 AM
The car I drive now is a manual.. the 95 is an auto.
Posted By: KerryKool Re: New Member: What should I do? - 02/26/06 06:33 AM
Depends, how much are you willing to spend? Whats your background working on engines?

Zetecs are fun to mod cause of the ease of it, if you have the money, a supercharger is out there that fits the zetec but its hard to come by. Some have done the supercharger and could help out more if thats the way you want to go. But there are plenty of things you can do to the zetec, you just have to search.

Welcome.
Posted By: Loco4G63 Re: New Member: What should I do? - 02/26/06 06:43 AM
manual.....drop in the new engine - custom turbo setup.
Posted By: Ed6407 Re: New Member: What should I do? - 02/26/06 06:44 AM
Well I'm new to engine work, but my dad was a mechanic for 22 years so there's someone to help and I really want to learn. I was just havin difficulty finding things to do other than intake and exhaust and I don't have the money at this point for a turbo or anything like that. Would the motor out of the 95 be worth workin on? I mean being that it blew the headgasket there are some things to check over first. What is a good site to buy parts like injectors, intake, etc because search results always come up with things for the focus but I didn't know if there would be issues with focus parts working or not.
Posted By: Ed6407 Re: New Member: What should I do? - 02/26/06 06:49 AM
One other thing, say I did get a turbo, would it be cheaper to buy one of those kits for 4 grand or could I get just any turbo and put it all together?
Posted By: KerryKool Re: New Member: What should I do? - 02/26/06 07:12 AM
Originally posted by Ed6407:
Well I'm new to engine work, but my dad was a mechanic for 22 years so there's someone to help and I really want to learn. I was just havin difficulty finding things to do other than intake and exhaust and I don't have the money at this point for a turbo or anything like that. Would the motor out of the 95 be worth workin on? I mean being that it blew the headgasket there are some things to check over first. What is a good site to buy parts like injectors, intake, etc because search results always come up with things for the focus but I didn't know if there would be issues with focus parts working or not.




The headgasket is not that hard to replace if you have the parts, time, and patients (especially since your dad has 22 years of experience.)

The focus parts are questionable to fit properly, depends what the part is, also one member on the forums actually works for Ford and gives discounts to CEGers, name: Bill J. at Team Ford(i think.)

I wouldn't rush the turbo, I'm sure someone has done it to the zetec before but I don't know anyone here that did. You probually won't find a turbo kit for the zetec (contour that is) but you might save money by creating a custom Turbo setup. Ebay is your friend.

-KJ
Posted By: ohsigmachi_dup1 Re: New Member: What should I do? - 02/27/06 04:38 AM
If I were you (which I'm not) this is what I would do. Pull the head off the 95. Oversized valves are easily found on Ebay. Have the head rebuilt with oversized valves. You could also get some of the components coated by Swain Techniques and grab some of the cams for hydraulic lifters (I forget who makes 'em maybe Comp?) and a set of adjustable cam gears (good for tuning in the cams and lightening the rotating mass).

So let's review.

1) pull cyl head

2) disassemble it and have it hot tanked and checked for warpage (may need to be slighty shaved down)

3) rebuild with either stock parts and seals or with oversized valves and hotter cams/ maybe get some stuff coated you could also have it mildly ported at this point and the valves unshrouded

4) Install head with cam gears

Then you will need complementing mods like intake and exhaust and lightened underdrive pulley to uncork your free-breathing head.

You can pretty much "rinse and repeat" with the rotating assembly from the bottom end of the parts car.

Posted By: SleeperZ Re: New Member: What should I do? - 02/27/06 06:22 PM
List of power adders in order of ease, cost, availability, and power.

When I say N/A (naturally aspirated) I am refering to real engine mods, not simple bolt-ons.

Ease;
1) Nitrous
2) S/C
3) Turbo
4) N/A

Cost;
1) Nitrous
2) S/C
3) Turbo
4) N/A

Availability;
1) Nitrous
2) N/A
3a) S/C
3b) Turbo

Power;
1) Turbo
2) Nitrous
3a) N/A
3b) S/C

Reliability;
1) N/A
2) if properly installed and maintained, all other power adders are the same

**************************************

Pro's of Nitrous;
cheap, easy install, lot's of power, no other mods required, as you mod the engine the nitrous becomes more effective

Con's of Nitrous;
if you are an idiot or screw something up then your engine goes bye-bye, have to refill the bottle, bad reputation

**************************************

Pro's of S/C;
good HP, minimal mods needed to support the install, can be easily tuned, part fitament and availability is better than that of the turbo option

Con's of S/C;
takes power to make power, lack of TQ, install is not for the average person so you'll have to find a shop

**************************************

Pro's of Turbo;
lots of HP, lots of TQ

Con's of Turbo;
major mods required to support extra power, second highest cost option, install can be tricky, need to relocate the battery, needs more tuning than a S/C

**************************************

Pro's of N/A;
you are building power the old fashioned way, least impact on engine life & reliability, can add nitrous later on

Con's of N/A;
cannot add a Turbo or S/C later on, expensive, parts are harder to come by, power is limited

**************************************

This is not the perfect list, just a general guideline. The weighing pro's versus cons should be done by each individual. Invest a little time in research and planning a project, and it will pay off.
Posted By: ohsigmachi_dup1 Re: New Member: What should I do? - 02/28/06 02:52 AM
I'll have to disagree with a couple of your points/concepts.

I think the better way to go about this is to figure out your end state/goal you wish to attain.

Will it be raced? Is fuel economy/daily drivability a concern? Do you need stock type durabilty/reliabilty?

When it comes to cost (depending on the answers to the above questions) you can spend equal amounts of money on any of the power adders. If you want to just add a quick 50 hp that you can turn on and off for weekend/racing use then by all means go with nitrous, and you'll more than likely still see 150K+ mile. If you want a bigger shot and you want the car to last more than say 50k mi post-modification; you might wanna consider beefing up the internals, or at least a tear down/inspect/rebuild.

For SC vs TC there really is no contest the turbo smacks down the SC every time with better reliability/power, yet many people think an SC is "cheaper". You can turbo/sc a stock engine just don't expect to run over 250fwhp and see 100K + miles. You'll need to beef up the bottom end to keep it reliable.

For bang for the buck power NA really does have nod. You can get a full-bore-fully-built-race cylinder head for less than $2000 including cams! dial it back a little bit we're takling less than $1500 for KILLER street cyl head. For NA power its all about the "special sauce" in the cyl head/intake mani combo. FYI you can totaly drop an SC on a full tilt NA motor it's just all about the tune.

OK done rambling
Posted By: blakjak Re: New Member: What should I do? - 02/28/06 10:58 PM
Originally posted by ohsigmachi:

For bang for the buck power NA really does have nod. You can get a full-bore-fully-built-race cylinder head for less than $2000 including cams! dial it back a little bit we're takling less than $1500 for KILLER street cyl head. For NA power its all about the "special sauce" in the cyl head/intake mani combo. FYI you can totaly drop an SC on a full tilt NA motor it's just all about the tune.




ah, the "other davis" plan
Posted By: Ed6407 Re: New Member: What should I do? - 03/01/06 03:00 AM
That's funn because my last name is Davis... Thanks for all the input guys, helped alot. I'd like to have a quick car but also a reliable daily driver, so at this point prolly N/A would be my option. If i had the money tho, I think I may go with the turbo later on. My dad has experience with working with turbos actually so that helps and I'd like tackling a job like that and then later being able to say 'I made this'. Anyways thanks for the help guys. Any other ideas are appreciated. Also, I can't find a good website for the diferent parts in particular that I'm looking for. For example, headers. I'd like to put a new exhaust on and along with that have some new headers, but I can't find any for a contour? Can find them for a focus no problem but again I worry about the Focus/Contour compatibility even if it is the same motor.
Posted By: chriseichman Re: New Member: What should I do? - 03/01/06 06:31 AM
Search! Search! Search! And when you search and discover that you need a shorty header for a focus and an O2 bung, then send me a PM cause I have a helluvadeal for you.
Posted By: ButtonPuncher_dup1 Re: New Member: What should I do? - 03/01/06 01:58 PM
Actually you can also use either the ZXtuner 4-2-1 long header or a WeaponR Cougar header.

Ed6407, because you have a '97, you would have to have it modified for your EGR system (or remove your EGR and disable it with a chip).

HTH,
BP
Posted By: Hydramatic Re: New Member: What should I do? - 03/01/06 07:07 PM
Look, if you want power go N/A. Order a nice carbureted or fuel injection setup from the UK, and with the proper tuning, you can easily see around 200 hp. That's just with FUEL MANAGEMENT alone. add a head, a hot cam, and/or a blower and you've got one helluva engine.
Posted By: SleeperZ Re: New Member: What should I do? - 03/01/06 08:24 PM
Originally posted by TrolloMatic:
Look, if you want power go N/A. Order a nice carbureted or fuel injection setup from the UK, and with the proper tuning, you can easily see around 200 hp. That's just with FUEL MANAGEMENT alone. add a head, a hot cam, and/or a blower and you've got one helluva engine.




Vulcan and Raceline (both in the UK) have engine kits for 195bhp build ups. Both are very good kits thats use carbs and are pretty much built up as much as the Zetec can. You may be able to squeeze another 15-20bhp (and thats being generous) out of the engine with more agressive tuning and compression.
So that's 210-215bhp, with 15% drivrtrain loss, you're looking at 178-183 whp.
The cost of both kits is over $4k american. Add in install and tuning and costs, and well that's why N/A is not cost effective.
Posted By: ohsigmachi_dup1 Re: New Member: What should I do? - 03/02/06 04:35 AM
look, I'll say it again, the parts for a killer N/A setup are within easy reach, here, in the US even. The secret is in the head: big valves, port, polished, shaved for higher CR(although lighter pistons that yield higher CR is a better route), and some performance coatings. If you wanna go all out get titanium spring retainers and get the cams diamond micropolished like me and contact Anatech Ltd.

I'm not one to make big sweeping statements, but there is no one who has even begun to explore the outer reaches of the Zetec cylinder head's potential to make big power. Myself and some professional race teams and Focus Sport have probably gone the farthest, I could have gone farther, but I'm confident of reaching my HP goals.

As long and you keep the CR sane you can always add a power adder on after you completed your Cylinder Head work.
Posted By: Kremithefrog Re: New Member: What should I do? - 03/02/06 04:47 AM
Turbo is more cost effective than all motors on our cars. Sure you can squeze more power out of our cars all motor vs. stock but what car can you not do that? Zetecs are pretty well suited for FI, it'd be pretty stupid and a waste of money to try to go all motor on a zetec. Of course getting a good head, valves, and cams is gonna add power, all motor or FI.

The fact is, most zetec contour owners don't have lots of money. Hence why they own a car that can be had in good condition for $1k. They're not looking to spend $4k+ for a 70hp gain.

The best thing to do for a moderately quick zetec contour is what sleeperz did. He's ran the fastest verifiable zetec contour 1/4 mile times and probably put less money into his car than I did into my rice-mobile.

Now if you got the money for a modified head, cams, pistons, etc., go for it.
Posted By: Ed6407 Re: New Member: What should I do? - 03/02/06 04:56 AM
Ok, so far I've come up with this. Pull out the motor of the 95 and do a complete tear down and rebuild. Do some work to the head, larger valves, port & polish, and coatings. Also some hotter cams as well as a new exhaust. I was looking at the shorty header but any better suggestions maybe as far as a header? And what else would be a good idea to do to the motor while its apart besides work to the head? I wasn't sure exactly how much new pistons would cost, rods if I would need them? And where could I order some nice injectors? I would assume with larger injectors would need a better fuel pump but I hear fuel pumps can be pricy. Also, what kind of difference does the block really make in the performance other than the weight of the engine? Other than all of that I'm pretty much out of ideas besides an intake and a turbo system that I doubt I would get into just yet.
Posted By: ohsigmachi_dup1 Re: New Member: What should I do? - 03/02/06 06:11 AM
Pull that motor and build the head first. You can swap the head into your car in a weekend easy after its built up. Then as funds are replinished you can build the block (ie stuff it with pauter rods/ diamond pistons, federa mogul bearings and ARP fasteners, ect) and swap it in later.

Like I said earlier, establish a power goal then work from there.

To be honest I don't know of anyone who has put a turbo on a freshly rebuilt motor with a nicely balanced/blue-printed stock rotating assembly. You could probably maintain 250 HP with a really nice tourque curve with stock components as long as its put together really well. Don't settle for anything less than .25 gram tolerance on the balancing job. The stock crank is plenty stout for any power level that is streetable.

As far as parts sources, check the site sponsors on Focaljet.com(focus valves/valve guides/springs and retainers go right in). For cams contact Rob at zxtuner.com I think he can still get the cams for the hydraulic lifters.
For stuff like cam/valve seals and head gaskets go with Motorcraft or felpro.

For the build process you could do it yourself, but unless you have a hot acid dip tank or a hot solvent parts washer, and all the equipment to install new valve guides and seats; it's probably best left to the professionals.
Posted By: Ed6407 Re: New Member: What should I do? - 03/03/06 03:20 AM
I don't have ALOT of money, but I still wannu spend the money because the motor in my '97 has 165,000+ and I'm sure the thing could last forever if I wanted it too, but I think just incase something were to happen, puttin money into the car I have would be just as much as buying another good used car. Atleast from around here. As far as dipping the parts and getting them coated, is it necisary? Dipping obviously cleans it off but what would the coatings do for me? How much does it normally cost to have everything dipped and then coated like that? Also balancing and blue printing necisary? I know for sure that can be some money. I know the thing would run like a champ but I'm not gunna race the car so.
Posted By: ohsigmachi_dup1 Re: New Member: What should I do? - 03/03/06 06:32 AM
At my local machine shope complete Balancing within .25 gram and piston crown deburing was $340

1) spin balance Crank, flywheel, and crank pulley
2) debur and smooth piston crowns
3) match weights of all rods and pistons

All my parts were new after market so no hot tank, but I think its runs $35/hr

As for coatings and their purposes and prices check Swain Techniques
Posted By: Ed6407 Re: New Member: What should I do? - 03/07/06 05:50 AM
Alright, coming close to making final decisions. One more thing, my dad says we'll need to yank the motor from underneath the car. Only problem is, we don't have a way of doing that. Does it HAVE to come from underneath or is there another way?
Posted By: Kremithefrog Re: New Member: What should I do? - 03/07/06 06:01 AM
Pull it out the top.
Posted By: Hydramatic Re: New Member: What should I do? - 03/07/06 06:15 AM
It can be taken out from either top or bottom. You DO have to pull the transmission from the bottom if I recall correctly.
Posted By: shamun Re: New Member: What should I do? - 03/07/06 04:33 PM
Ohsigmachi,
How much would cylinder work cost?

shamoon
Posted By: Kremithefrog Re: New Member: What should I do? - 03/07/06 05:26 PM
I'm pretty sure the tranny can go out the top but I believe only if you're pulling it with the engine.
Posted By: ohsigmachi_dup1 Re: New Member: What should I do? - 03/08/06 04:20 AM
Originally posted by ed6407:
Alright, coming close to making final decisions. One more thing, my dad says we'll need to yank the motor from underneath the car. Only problem is, we don't have a way of doing that. Does it HAVE to come from underneath or is there another way?




You can pull it either way. Pulling through the top just requires you to get under the car and get all the connections to the subframe unbolted and the axles out of the tranny. It's easier with the intake/exhaust manifolds completey removed and the cylinder head on. Oh and remove the AC compressor, makes clearing everything a little easier. Of course the hood should be off also.



Originally posted by shamun:
Ohsigmachi,
How much would cylinder work cost?

shamoon




Cylinder head or cylinder bore/hone?
Posted By: shamun Re: New Member: What should I do? - 03/08/06 05:16 AM
Cylinder head work. Porting, polishing, and whatever else a head job consists of. Just curious, because I found a website at:
http://www.accordperformance.com/complete-head-package.html

They provide a big bore throttle body, smoothed out. They do the head work and give new (regrinds?) cams.
The company started as an Accord tuner, but have branched out to domestics. Is anyone interested in trying to get volume discounts from them?
Any thoughts?
Posted By: Kremithefrog Re: New Member: What should I do? - 03/08/06 05:26 AM
That's just a Gude head package. Not really the best company to go with.

http://www.gude.com/
Posted By: shamun Re: New Member: What should I do? - 03/08/06 05:46 AM
SVTFrog,
Excuse my ignorance, but I do not understand. The Gude website is selling (retail price) the head for $1650. The folks at Accord Performance (AP) are charging 100 dollars less. PLUS you get new cams and a new throttle body. AP's deal seems like an even better deal now that I have seen the Gude website. Please advise, Anyone and EVERYone!!
Posted By: Kremithefrog Re: New Member: What should I do? - 03/08/06 05:53 AM
Resellers always sell for less than MSRP, but that wasn't my point.

Point is, Gude is not the best company. You'd be better with a FRPP head, cams from the company of your chosing, and bored out stock TB (or a focus one adapted, but our's really aren't that big of a restriction).
Posted By: ohsigmachi_dup1 Re: New Member: What should I do? - 03/08/06 06:44 AM
GUDE=crap

Cheapest route= get a junkyard head, and find an auto machine shop that knows what they're doing. Pick up some oversized valves (they pop up on ebay pretty often or check focaljets sponsor sites), Crower springs and retainers, and some cams (also commonly on ebay or again check focaljet). Have the machince shop bebuild the head with your new components (plus valve guides, stem seals and valve seat machining) while they are in there they can/should do the following:

1) Open up the intake ports, but they should not be mirror smooth since a bit of turbulence here aids in complete charge burn (if you find a shop that does racing team work they may have thier own port finishing technique that usually envolves a sort of crosshatch pattern).

2) Unshroud the valves meaning remove any material that stick out into the combustion chamber past the valve faces.

3) mirror polish the combustion chambers. This ensures no hot spots and prevents the heat(energy) from soaking into the head.

4) open up the exhaust ports (mainly right behind the valves) mirror polishing the exhaust ports also help the same way it does the combustion chambers.

5)3 angle machining on the valves seats

NOTE: If you are going to coat the combustion chambers, intake, and exhast ports you can skimp a bit on the exact finish of all the surfaces.

Assuming you get decent deals on everything you're looking at about $1200-1400

My fully built FRPP head from Mcnews auto was 1800 including shipping to Hawaii!
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