Contour/Focus engine question...

Hey has anyone thought about carburetting the Zetec? I have seen kits for them that run two 1-barrel sidedrafts, and produce like 200-or so horsepower. If you could get the computer and carbs to be friends, or even a custom ECU, that would be VERY cheap compared to a Super or Turbo.

Turbo, and probably supercharger can both be done cheaper, easier, and retain better driveability. Have fun fitting carbs in our engine bay.

Originally posted by Kremithefrog:
Turbo, and probably supercharger can both be done cheaper, easier, and retain better driveability. Have fun fitting carbs in our engine bay.

Oh Come on...... Where's the fun in that? You know darn well there is plenty of room in there... Besides, I think it would be nice to have a car I could tune with a screwdriver.
But really it wouldn't be that expensive either. Last I checked, Supers ran about 2-2.5K and 3K for turbos. PLUS you have to upgrade injectors, computer, etc. I think two 180$ carbs, a custom computer, and a shaker hood scoop could be had for less than that.

Guess what? If you're making 200hp whether it be turbo, supercharger, or carbs, you'll have to upgrade the injectors. Tuning would be a lot easier for a turbo or supercharger as all you need is a custom chip (basically). A carb setup would most likely need some sort of stand-alone. A custom intake manifold would also be needed for a carb setup. Yes it would be cool. Yes it would be hard to fit, more expensive than you think to make work right, and generally not as good of an idea as going FI. But if unique is what you want, go for it.

Originally posted by Kremithefrog:
Guess what? If you're making 200hp whether it be turbo, supercharger, or carbs, you'll have to upgrade the injectors.

i didnt know carbs required bigger injectors to run

Hahaaha. Crap. I'm tired. As carlos mencia would say "dee dee dee".

Ok. That's enough arguing from me today. But I do wanna know if a Non-electronic, carb-ed Zetec is possible...

Originally posted by MadMerc97:
Ok. That's enough arguing from me today. But I do wanna know if a Non-electronic, carb-ed Zetec is possible...

Anything is possible.

Originally posted by LocoSCZ:

Originally posted by MadMerc97:
Ok. That's enough arguing from me today. But I do wanna know if a Non-electronic, carb-ed Zetec is possible...

Anything is po$$ible.

Fixed.

Originally posted by MadMerc97:
Ok. That's enough arguing from me today. But I do wanna know if a Non-electronic, carb-ed Zetec is possible...

There is a carb kit made by Weber-Alpha for the Zetec.
It uses 4 small carbs and a (very) short runner intake manifold.
(see picture here.)
Problem is, the Contour does not have enough room between the engine and the firewall to run it.

The kit shows up on Ebay every once in awhile for $500 to $700.
Add a stand-alone ECU, dyno tuning, and some custom fabricating (support and mounting brackets) and your ready to go.

And what do you know, here's a cheap stand-alone ECU.
Dyno and custom fabricating cost will vary, although it shoudln't cost more than say an s/c install & tune.

Sweet...Could probably just cut through the firewall into the Panel intake. The only problem would be water though. hmmmmm.

Look, CARBURATORS DO NOT REQUIRE A ECU TO OPERATE(for the fuel control)!!! The megasquirt IS NOT going to help in this situation since it controls ONLY FUEL INJECTORS!!! I believe we already went over this with Kermit's response earlier. All you would need is a dedicated ignition computer that can pick up a signal from the crank trigger. The carbs ARE VERY INEXPENSIVE and very easy to install. Think of all the saved weight by pulling out all of the ecu, wiring, intake, injectors, throttlebody and anything to do with emissions or the stock ECU. Sure you might have to play with the carb's a little on colder days, but they are an EXTREMELY simple way to make power. You could use one of these for ignition control - http://www.racetep.com/hpx.htm . Essentially your tossing the stock ECU out the window. If the carbs are about $180 a piece - figure $900 - 1000 for the ignition computer and your still around $1500 for all new stuff. Now if you found some second hand parts you could probably save big. I know there would be some 'extras' That will be needed along the way, but that is a given for just about any sort of major mod to a engine. With this approach you single handedly dropped your engine management and your fuel worries out of the picture. Not to mention, made life under the hood VERY easy to deal with. A setup like this would make for a Hella-nitrous car.

Thank You. Finally someone who understands the reasoning for my arguing.

The Weber-Alpha carb setup for the Zetec uses fuel injectors. (It also requires the use of a tps sensor.)
An ECU of some sort is still required for ignition timing, fuel control, as well as other sensors on the car (should you choose to keep them).
The carb kits (which are more or less TBs) basicly replace the Single Throttle Body setup with an Individual Throttle Body On Runner setup.
It is a very good way to bring the power in the car up.
A decent setup should bring the Zetec close to 200BHP.

That weber-alpha design would be fine in a kit car but did anyone notice that the stacs on the carbs would be facing the firewall if you put them in a Contour?

First, there is a COMPLETE difference between a CARB' and a THROTTLE BODY or THROTTLE BODY INJECTION or MULTIPORT INJECTION. DO NOT CONFUSE THEM. A carb operates independantly from any sort of injection device(I know there were some quasi-computer controlled piles of carb's but they still did not use an injector

). A throttle body is basically a air control device that restricts air from entering the intake manifold. There are throttle body injection setups that have a pair of injectors that spray into the throttle plate of the throttle body. Basically a single point fuel injection setup that was an interesting twist on a carb in an effort for manufacturers to save money. Not as efficent as a multiport setup though. Now the setup that was pictured in your link (the red zetec engine)was a multi throttle body, MULTI PORT FUEL INJECTED SETUP not a CARBURATED setup. What we are talking about here is a complete REMOVAL of the FUEL INJECTION SETUP of the car. We would install a pair of Weber carburaters that DO NOT USE ANY SORT OF FUEL INJECTORS OR A COMPUTER TO CONTROL THEM.

Yes, you will have to install a computer that has the ability to read off of a magnetic crankshaft sensor/pickup assembly to control the ignition. (since the Zetec and the Duratec doesn't have any sort of a distributer) But the computer would control ONLY the ignition chores.
Obviously you have never owned or worked on a vehicle that didn't have fuel injection on it. If you did, you would understand that back in the day you only needed about 3 wires under the hood(except for spark plug wires) to make an engine run. Carburation works completely null of any sort of electronic help.

Basically throw the computer in the trash. Install a pair of carbs for the fuel. Install a stand alone ignition control. Enjoy SIMPLE, EASY TO MODIFY and CONTROL POWER. Install whatever you would like, there isn't a EMS in the car that says 'I DON'T LIKE IT'. I keep my 10 second carburated 5.0 around just so I can remind myself of how simple things used to be

Originally posted by evocontour:
First, there is a COMPLETE difference between a CARB' and a THROTTLE BODY or THROTTLE BODY INJECTION or MULTIPORT INJECTION. DO NOT CONFUSE THEM. A carb operates independantly from any sort of injection device(I know there were some quasi-computer controlled piles of carb's but they still did not use an injector ). A throttle body is basically a air control device that restricts air from entering the intake manifold. There are throttle body injection setups that have a pair of injectors that spray into the throttle plate of the throttle body. Basically a single point fuel injection setup that was an interesting twist on a carb in an effort for manufacturers to save money. Not as efficent as a multiport setup though. Now the setup that was pictured in your link (the red zetec engine)was a multi throttle body, MULTI PORT FUEL INJECTED SETUP not a CARBURATED setup. What we are talking about here is a complete REMOVAL of the FUEL INJECTION SETUP of the car. We would install a pair of Weber carburaters that DO NOT USE ANY SORT OF FUEL INJECTORS OR A COMPUTER TO CONTROL THEM. Yes, you will have to install a computer that has the ability to read off of a magnetic crankshaft sensor/pickup assembly to control the ignition. (since the Zetec and the Duratec doesn't have any sort of a distributer) But the computer would control ONLY the ignition chores.
Obviously you have never owned or worked on a vehicle that didn't have fuel injection on it. If you did, you would understand that back in the day you only needed about 3 wires under the hood(except for spark plug wires) to make an engine run. Carburation works completely null of any sort of electronic help.
Basically throw the computer in the trash. Install a pair of carbs for the fuel. Install a stand alone ignition control. Enjoy SIMPLE, EASY TO MODIFY and CONTROL POWER. Install whatever you would like, there isn't a EMS in the car that says 'I DON'T LIKE IT'. I keep my 10 second carburated 5.0 around just so I can remind myself of how simple things used to be .

Heck Yeah. That's what I want, a Contour that, when the gangs take over the highway, will continue to run. Seriously though, an engine you could tune with a timing light and a screwdriver? That sounds like heaven to me. Screw all these computers and $#1t. Oh, I am sure there is a way to make those carbs fit too. I mean, just cut into the firewall.

Actually I have worked on cars with carburetors.
An old style carburetor uses vacuum to inject fuel via a jet (kind of like nitrous) versus an electronic controlled injector.
I am not arguing how a carb works (if it came across like that, then I did not word my statements correctly).
The point I am making is solely about the kit available for our engine.

Here you can see a small carb (very similiar to the weber-alpha ones for the zetec).

Amazing how much it looks like a throttle body.
Now instead of a jet the weber-alpha kit uses fuel injectors at the carb/throttle body.
Very similiar to throttle body injection.
The kit uses a FPR (vacuum) to control fuel delivery (like adjusting the screws on a carb).
The ECU does not controll A/F ratio, simply fuel injector pulse.

The design has many of the positives of both carb & fuel injection and fewer of the drawbacks than each.

The kit brings the zetec to about 180BHP.

Yours for only $1200...

http://cgi.ebay.com/Twin-Pair-Dellorto-DHLA-48-C-As-New-Weber-DCOE-SP_W0QQitemZ8004288430QQcategoryZ43120QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

BP

Look Sleeper, I appreciate you trying to help us with one of your QUASI-FUEL INJECTED offerings. But what we are essentially trying to do here is to install a pair of carb's onto the zetec with somthing to make the ignition work in an attempt to have a running engine WITHOUT a COMPUTER OF ANY SORT FOR FUEL CONTROL. Try to invision a Holley 4 BBL 600 CFM on the Zetec. Now if we could manipulate the factory ECU into controlling the ignition system without having control of the fuel injection we would keep it. But since we can't, it must go. Throw out the factory ecu, wiring etc. etc. In it's place drop a stand alone ignition computer that can operate the ignition without ANY OTHER computer in the car. Couple that with the Holley and I think you might understand a bit more. (Of course we are looking to use a pair of weber's instead of a 4 bbl!!) Simplicity. If it had a distributor, I would suggest a retro to a points style ignition with a single ignition coil.

There are those out there that would find a fall back to a mechanical everything under the hood appealing

. Fuel injection has brought a great number of successes along with it, but it has essentially locked you and I out of the mix unless we invest some large sum of money into purchasing electronic devices to allow us to monitor and modify what goes on under the hood. Now wouldn't you just rather save the $1000

you just spent for the laptop and the datalogging software and wideband O2 and just trade it in for a trusty 99 cent screw driver that allows you to essentially do the same thing?

Originally posted by ButtonPuncher:
Yours for only $1200...

http://cgi.ebay.com/Twin-Pair-Dellorto-DHLA-48-C-As-New-Weber-DCOE-SP_W0QQitemZ8004288430QQcategoryZ43120QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

BP

Those Carbs look sooooo cool. I can just see those buggers in my engine bay now.

There is more control and better power from the Weber-Alpha hybrid design.
(There is a reason converting to fuel injection on hot rods is so populaur.)
I do agree that the novelty factor of going straight carb is cool, and can even offer more power than our current fuel injection setup.

As far as where to put the filters for a carb setup;
Simply cut into the firewall and use the area under the windshield cowl as a large intake plenum.
Half the cowl grill (big plastic piece that has the wiper arms sticking through) is a solid piece (and it just so happens its the side where the carbs would come through the firewall) and the other half of the cowl grille has air solts in it, so all you would need to do is add a filter to the underside. Talk about a cold air intake.

there's company in england (i know bit far 2 go 4 a carb conversion) who can make a custom inlet manifold 2 make the zetec run on bike carbs apparently this conversion is the nuts

cos the bike r designed to run over a much larger rev range it makes the engine very torqi low down & pulls all the way through the rev range but keeps the engine nice and drivable apparently the conversion is quite easy but setting it up 2 run correctly is mustard (sorry very hard) but it works out a dam sight cheaper than turbo or supercharging (although i do believe its a lot cheaper in yr country)
anyway with the conversion alone with no other engine mods (except filter & zorst) b looking at 170/180 bhp on a 2.0

inlet manifold retails at �?£176 and the bike carbs can b picked up in scrapyards over here 4 about �?£30 i'll give u there phone no. BOGG BROTHERS 01944 738234 im sure there b happy 2 answer any questions
the conversion is also compatible with the 4 cylinder duratech

SWEET. If I ever get enough money or time. Right now I'm working on my friends '88 Firebird. cramming a Vortech 350 in that nizzle. I should get a pretty good overview of how to set up carbs right on that project. That would be such a cool mod though, the only problem with carbureting a Contour/Mystique is the emissions.

But then again as my friend says, "$50 to the tech will pass ANY car"

Here's a nice ITB setup with turbo, sexy!

bogg brother bike carbs
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Sleeper, isn't that the svt focus motor? There has been discussions here on why the sid mounted TB is much better anyway.

Originally posted by SleeperZ:
Here's a nice ITB setup with turbo, sexy!

Daaaaaang. Who's setup is that?!? I've never seen a Zetec with coil-on-plug ignition. Is that a '03+ Focus? I thought that they all changed to the 2.3L duratec.

Its all a custom setup; the turbo, ITBs, fuel system, ignition sytem, standalone ECU, etc.
No clue sho owns it, but I beleive its in Europe (could be wrong).