Rear mount turbo zetec?!

in the near future....

rear as in... at the back of the car? if so...why

either way, go for it.

The idea of those rear mounted turbos offends me in every way. Aesthetics, engineering, philosophically, intellectually, religiously, you name it, it offends me. But too each his own.

Originally posted by DopePope:
rear as in... at the back of the car? if so...why

Uh yeah why would a turbo go in the back... like in the trunk or something?

well ive seen them on firebirds its right next to the exhaust in the back, and they do it because there is more room back there and its easier to do (dont need modification to headers etc) but on a zetec i would assume there is enough room, so im not sure of the benefit

Originally posted by DopePope:
and they do it because there is more room back there and its easier to do (dont need modification to headers etc)

exactly ...

how does it sound? unneccessary

but there is room on zetecs and there are headers made for turbos too, dont get me wrong, if you do this thats wonderful and great! but it might actually be easier to just go the more traditional route, and other than maybe slight cost benefit, i dont see much else.

But wouldnt this be an easy install?? And keep the heat down in the engine bay?

Im not sure about ease, but you are right I suppose it would keep some heat out of the engine bay, and the fact that it is being piped back so far may even cool the charge down quite a bit.
I'll say it again, all of my critiques are just that, please do this!

The big two arguements against doing it are;
1) its just not right (stupid arguement)
2) it wont make the same HP (which is a good arguement)
Unfortunately the cost of doing a rear setup is about the same as a normal setup.
So why pay the same for less HP?

The absolute furthest back I'd put the turbo is after the cat right around the flex pipe. Just under the intake manifold. Aerocharger did that with their Focus kit and did good numbers with decent spool up. The Porsche 944 turbo also had a similar setup with a long exhaust manifold with the turbo close to the intake. I don't know if there's enough room in the Cougar under there to squease the turbo in though.

http://www.ststurbo.com/

The only problem I see with locating the turbo so far from the engine is that you will lose most of the thermal energy that the turbo would normally use. This thermal energy helps to spin the turbine wheel faster. With having the turbo located further from the engine, response would be in the toilet - CAN WE SAY LAG?!?!?

More pipe in between the engine and turbo means more response time which also means less power down low. If your worried about underhood temps, Use thermal wrap on the exhaust components and put some heat extracting vents in the hood.

By wrapping the exhaust and keeping the heat in the exhaust stream you get a small hp benefit anyway. Part of the reason they ceramic coat headers. There is PLENTY of room in the engine compartment on a zetec Contour for a turbo to be fit in. Even more if you get a focus 4into1 shortie header and make an adaptor plate for the go between (shouldn't cost more than $150 for the header and the adaptor piece).

Of course you could always opt for a stock focus exhaust manifold to use for your project, alot cheaper.

Originally posted by evocontour:
The only problem I see with locating the turbo so far from the engine is that you will lose most of the thermal energy that the turbo would normally use. This thermal energy helps to spin the turbine wheel faster. With having the turbo located further from the engine, response would be in the toilet - CAN WE SAY LAG?!?!?

Click on the link posted, lag isnt a huge problem like so many think. Throttle response is great from what the articles on the site say.

Check out FI forum for a great and beneficial thread (other than "its stupid!!") on rear mount setups and why they are BENEFICIAL and would be a GOOD CHOICE over a traditional style setup.

Ray

The ONLY benefit to installing a turbo in the rear of the vehicle would be the removal of the heat underhood. If it is such a big deal, wrap all of your exhaust components with exhaust wrap and put some exhaust vents in your hood.

(Coolness meets functionality) Turbo response is delayed by putting the turbo at the end of the exhaust system. The exhaust gas has to push it's way ENTIRELY down the exhaust system and through the cat before it can connect with the turbine wheel and make it spin quicker. THERE IS A DELAY HERE. Not to mention the additional 5-6 feet worth of intake piping that has to be routed all over the car or next to the HOT exhaust pipe before it can be run into the engine without intercooling. Now if you still want to intercool your intake charge which would be STRONGLY reccommended, your adding all sorts of more piping in and still having to cut up the front of your car for the intercooler. Which further increases lag by creating alot more area to pressurize. Lets not forget the length of oil line your going to have to install, I am sure a line that long would probably tax the oilpump in the engine somewhat.

WHAT IF YOU RUN OVER SOMETHING?!?!? Say - A RECAP? The one I ran over managed to remove the exhaust system and my rear bumper plus puncture my gastank in one fell swoop.

I can just imagine if I had a rear mounted turbo. If the recap didn't destroy the turbo, I bet the tractor trailer that ran over my exhaust would have. I would much rather have my turbo UNDERHOOD where it is safely out of harms way, is easier to work on and doesn't require a lift anytime I need to look at it. Beneficial? A better choice? The only benefit your swapping here is the removal of heat from underhood and exchanging it for alot of extra work, a lot of extra components in strange places that have to be checked frequently for road hazard damage and a slower responding power adder. But to each thier own. (At least I didn't say it was stupid)

Nice cross-post, there, bro..

Ray

Originally posted by evocontour:
Turbo response is delayed by putting the turbo at the end of the exhaust system. The exhaust gas has to push it's way ENTIRELY down the exhaust system and through the cat before it can connect with the turbine wheel and make it spin quicker. THERE IS A DELAY HERE.

This has been adddressed;

Originally posted by DemonSVT:

Originally posted by Stazi:
Well, with the length of the intake pipe from alllll the way back there, up to the intake and that tiny turbo trying to boost it up/compress all the air inthat intak epipe, PLUS the lag from the really long exhaust pipe to the turbine - it'll have more lag than the reaction time of a corpse.

No it won't.

I take it you have not looked at any dynos of rear mounted turbos.

LS1's & LT1's are spooling up full T4s by 2500rpm using 2.5 or 3" piping.

The air is already flowing through the piping. It's not like the turbo (or turbos) has to pressurize completely empty piping.

There is less pressure drop (i.e. causes "lag") over 10-15' of piping then across ANY intercooler.

I suggest you check out some information on a properly mounted rear turbo. It performs nothing like I imagined it could. There is zero lag & more temp drop then a decent intercooler.

Originally posted by Seawulf:
The idea of those rear mounted turbos offends me in every way. Aesthetics, engineering, philosophically, intellectually, religiously, you name it, it offends me. But too each his own.

why? because they work?

functino before form...who gives a rats @$$ where it's mounted?

Originally posted by TGO:

Originally posted by Seawulf:
The idea of those rear mounted turbos offends me in every way. Aesthetics, engineering, philosophically, intellectually, religiously, you name it, it offends me. But too each his own.

why? because they work?

functino before form...who gives a rats @$$ where it's mounted?

I think a turbo in the engine bay is way more functional than one at the end of the car. I'll go ahead and more reasons against it, too low to the ground, turbo and air filter get too dirty. Really, just keep it in the engine bay, it'll be mo betta.

Lots of stuff works. I've seen dynos of people hooking up leaf blowers to their intake and actually gaining hp but I'm not gonna do it.

Ultimately, you can't compare gains on a 5L+ V8 to a 2.0L I4, totally different setups. Also I would not do any setup that required a separate oil pump to pump the oil back into the engine. If it ain't gravity drained I'm not interested.

Originally posted by Seawulf:
Lots of stuff works. I've seen dynos of people hooking up leaf blowers to their intake and actually gaining hp but I'm not gonna do it.

so what you are saying is you wouldnt install a proven power adder to your car because it doesnt look like everyone elses?.... time to think outside the box....358hp 4cyl...

http://i.b5z.net/i/u/1473169/f/Press/stshcis.pdf

Lag has to do with turbine sizing compared to the engine...
on a rear mount turbo set-up... you just have to size it differently than you would on a conventional set-up. Then you don't have as big of Lag problem as would be expected.

However I would imagine the rear mount is not as efficient as it "could" be...the losing of heat mostly...but it does work.

Easier to install and uninstall...they get pretty good gains.

Why?

Originally posted by ToTalXS:

http://i.b5z.net/i/u/1473169/f/Press/stshcis.pdf

Just what the world needs, another honda turbo kit.

Oh, and I wouldn't hold up a magazine called Hot Compact & Imports as your holy grail of tech. I only skimmed the article but does he have a FMIC? Wasn't the setup supposed to not need that? Way to think outside the box.

And you see the sig? I've been turbo'd for well over 3 years now. I got turbo'd when there was nothing for our Zetecs. Oh wait, there still is nothing for our zetecs. My kit was built from scratch using whatever I could find. Some metal from a plumbing supply house, some exhaust pipe, a turbo from ebay, etc... My dad built a kit for his Focus using the techniques learned from my setup, also from scratch.

The only other person here I'd look up to as an example is Loco cause he also took the FI plunge into the unknown. Granted he went supercharged, and I'd never go SC(but that's a whole nother argument). But I'd sooner go supercharged than install a remote turbo setup.

i posted that as to show the 4cyl remote mounted turbo...a previous post you said you cant compare a remote mounted v8 turbo to something used on the zetecs....it may not be a technical marvel for a magazine but the magazine didnt install the guys turbo....im happy for you that you built your own turbo....that wasnt anything i was speaking out against....but its not like you built the first turbo ever...so although its cool that you did it...youre not that big of a pioneer....just my opinion of course...

Originally posted by Seawulf:

Originally posted by ToTalXS:

http://i.b5z.net/i/u/1473169/f/Press/stshcis.pdf

Just what the world needs, another honda turbo kit.

Oh, and I wouldn't hold up a magazine called Hot Compact & Imports as your holy grail of tech. I only skimmed the article but does he have a FMIC? Wasn't the setup supposed to not need that? Way to think outside the box.

And you see the sig? I've been turbo'd for well over 3 years now. I got turbo'd when there was nothing for our Zetecs. Oh wait, there still is nothing for our zetecs. My kit was built from scratch using whatever I could find. Some metal from a plumbing supply house, some exhaust pipe, a turbo from ebay, etc... My dad built a kit for his Focus using the techniques learned from my setup, also from scratch.

The only other person here I'd look up to as an example is Loco cause he also took the FI plunge into the unknown. Granted he went supercharged, and I'd never go SC(but that's a whole nother argument). But I'd sooner go supercharged than install a remote turbo setup.

If it makes you feel better.....IF I had a MTX, I would have gone turbo instead of superchager.

Originally posted by Seawulf:

Originally posted by ToTalXS:

http://i.b5z.net/i/u/1473169/f/Press/stshcis.pdf

Just what the world needs, another honda turbo kit.

Oh, and I wouldn't hold up a magazine called Hot Compact & Imports as your holy grail of tech. I only skimmed the article but does he have a FMIC? Wasn't the setup supposed to not need that? Way to think outside the box.

And you see the sig? I've been turbo'd for well over 3 years now. I got turbo'd when there was nothing for our Zetecs. Oh wait, there still is nothing for our zetecs. My kit was built from scratch using whatever I could find. Some metal from a plumbing supply house, some exhaust pipe, a turbo from ebay, etc... My dad built a kit for his Focus using the techniques learned from my setup, also from scratch.

The only other person here I'd look up to as an example is Loco cause he also took the FI plunge into the unknown. Granted he went supercharged, and I'd never go SC(but that's a whole nother argument). But I'd sooner go supercharged than install a remote turbo setup.

FYI I am now building my own turbo kit from scratch (this is my 2nd reised set-up) I live near the STS shop, I have talked to Rick Squires personally...the remote mount works...pretty well in fact.

For the LS1 crowd...it's a great option...there isn't much room in there and Rick has developed a great option for them, but I will agree with you in that it isn't the best option.