Help with supercharging

From Hecor's original thread, installing a M45 is pretty darn easy.

I wonder how close Percy is to you. Here's his JRSC install thread.

I want to see someone put on a Focus SVT M62 supercharger on a Contour.

Originally posted by ButtonPuncher:
From Hecor's original thread, installing a M45 is pretty darn easy.

I wonder how close Percy is to you. Here's his JRSC install thread.

I want to see someone put on a Focus SVT M62 supercharger on a Contour.

BP

Working on it.

Originally posted by Bk4293:
I don't think it's a fascination, I just think people are too scared that it wouldnt fit. Hector took the chance and it paid off for him.

Im a CAN-DO kinda guy - i just dont like the rush of a turbo - i get to play with some nice cars on a daily basis (I own a garage), so we have have Nissan 300ZX twin turbos, supras, skylines, ect all with turbo's and to be honest - although all the turbo'd car put out massive amounts of power - it just didnt feel right - now the supercharged jaguar - that was a whole different story - it was silky smooth all the way from idle - and what a lovely sound

Anyway back on topic - i have read percys post, but unfortuantly it didnt help much, as there is no way that I can afford to buy a Jackson Racing kit for my car, so im building from scratch. I have the blower - and im in the process of machining a new inlet manifold, ect. But what im really looking for here are some details about what needs done apart from actually making the charger fit on the car. Will i need differet plugs, ecu change, better grade of fuel ect.

I intend to have a fully working supercharged & nitroused up zetec for under �?£300 - so im doing it old skool - i'll do the work myself to save paying labor, and if there are parts needed, then i'll make them (bits like brackets, pulleys ect). I am also quite handy at electronics so i can handle some engine mods, like the Nitrous controller, which i'll make myself.

What is the black box that is reffered to in percys thread - i assume this is some kind of piggy back fuel controller that is supplied by JR? Any idea what it does, and why its needed?

Here are some of the bits i have so far:

http://stu.crediblehost.com/graphiccar/viewtopic.php?t=732

So if anyone knows the nitty gritty of making this work without any bells and whistles, then please let me know before i make a complete ass of myself - lol

Regards

G

Originally posted by weegee:
So if anyone knows the nitty gritty of making this work without any bells and whistles, then please let me know before i make a complete ass of myself - lol

Regards

G

Hector, tell him what you got!!!

To get yourself up and running I would say... 30lb injectors, Focus SVT MAF or Mustang GT MAF, and some way of tuning it. Either SCT or Diablo chip. If you don't program your ECU for all of that extra power and fuel, you will blow up your Zetec.

HTH,
BP

Originally posted by ButtonPuncher:

Originally posted by weegee:
So if anyone knows the nitty gritty of making this work without any bells and whistles, then please let me know before i make a complete ass of myself - lol

Regards

G

Hector, tell him what you got!!!

To get yourself up and running I would say... 30lb injectors, Focus SVT MAF or Mustang GT MAF, and some way of tuning it. Either SCT or Diablo chip. If you don't program your ECU for all of that extra power and fuel, you will blow up your Zetec.

HTH,
BP

I bought the kit......all that needed to be modified was the bracket that holds the blower and intake manifold, a Focus IAC valve, and the cruise control needs to be removed (Tb bracket was modifed). For the higher boost I am running 42# injectors, Mustang GT MAF, and a custom burned Diablochip calibrated for both.

As far as building a kit yourself that may cause some problems. The supercharger will need to be very straight and lined up perfectly with the serpentine belt. If not that may cause a lot of problems. You may run into problems making the intake manifold. Kits like the Jackson Racing I'm sure flow test the intake manifold before selling them in a kit. You will need to figure that out. What car did you get the M45 out of?

Here is a pic of mine:

Thats a tidy car you have there m8

Thanks for the info - its looking like it could be quite an easy conversion after all. The charger is off a BMW Mini Cooper S - but is totally unmolested - and in the same condition that youd buy one from eaton in.

A couple of my mates are precision engineers, so im sure that they will help me get it all lined up. Im glad you mentioned the MAF/CHIP/INJECTORS, as tbh i see these as being my only major concern. I have noted your points on the intake manifold design - but im hoping to take advantage of the fact that its forced induction - hence it wont need to be perfect to work, although i may modify the design to improve gas flow once i can get some computer simulations running.

hmmm fluid dynamics

What boost are you running at? Have you changed your pulley size, or did you just use the one suppluied in the kit?

And on a seperate note: What do you reacon the chances are of connecting the electro-magnetic clutch off an air-con unit to the supercharger - allonging me to turn the supercharger on/off at will (for those moments when you dont want to let the idiot in the lane next to you know that your boosted) - a possibility? And is there any technical reason why a dump valve woulnt work on a s/c car.

Cheers

G

Originally posted by weegee:
Thats a tidy car you have there m8

What boost are you running at? Have you changed your pulley size, or did you just use the one suppluied in the kit?

And on a seperate note: What do you reacon the chances are of connecting the electro-magnetic clutch off an air-con unit to the supercharger - allonging me to turn the supercharger on/off at will (for those moments when you dont want to let the idiot in the lane next to you know that your boosted) - a possibility? And is there any technical reason why a dump valve woulnt work on a s/c car.

Cheers

G

Thanks!

Stock is 3.0" pulley = 3-4 psi
My 2.6" pulley = 7-8 psi
2.3" pulley (sitting in my back seat) 10-11 psi

Why? Under no load/low load there really isn't any boost.

The dump valve really isn't necessary due to the fact most superchargers have a bypass valve bolted on them already....in between the supercharger and intake manfold.

Like Hector said, the JRSC for the Focus does have a bypass valve in beteween the intake and the supercharger's output.

If you are designing one yourself, see if you can do something like the Powerworks Focus kit and integrate a intercooler into the intake manifold. Like this...

The JRSC is mounted upside down so that it blows up into a liquid to air intercooler. Very nice design. You can also see the bypass valve in that picture.

Heat is a big problem with the M45. It is soo small that when you start increasing the boost it REALLY heats up the air.

BTW, Hector that pics rocks.

HTH,
BP

Originally posted by ButtonPuncher:

Heat is a big problem with the M45. It is soo small that when you start increasing the boost it REALLY heats up the air.

BTW, Hector that pics rocks.

HTH,
BP

Thanks.

If he intergrates an intercooler...having the heat from the boost of the M45 won't matter.

Also remember he plans on running spray. N20 will cool down the intake charge also.

Originally posted by LocoSCZ:
Also remember he plans on running spray. N20 will cool down the intake charge also.

Ooops, I missed that one.

A blown, intercooled, sprayed 'tour?!? Suh-friggin-weet.

I was just looking through eBay and it seems that a Mercedes M62 supercharger has an electric clutch. Can you swap the nose drive between a M45 and a M62?

Check it out.

Just a thought. For the true "Mad Max" style supercharger. Flip a switch and hang on.

Originally posted by ButtonPuncher:
I was just looking through eBay and it seems that a Mercedes M62 supercharger has an electric clutch. Can you swap the nose drive between a M45 and a M62?

Check it out.

Just a thought. For the true "Mad Max" style supercharger. Flip a switch and hang on.

BP

Why would you turn it off?

Originally posted by LocoSCZ:

Originally posted by ButtonPuncher:
I was just looking through eBay and it seems that a Mercedes M62 supercharger has an electric clutch. Can you swap the nose drive between a M45 and a M62?

Check it out.

Just a thought. For the true "Mad Max" style supercharger. Flip a switch and hang on.

BP

Why would you turn it off?

Because I heard it gets really loud..

Talk about the ultimate sleeper!!! Throw a big M62 on there that's sprayed and intercooled. Pull up to a light with the SC "off", floor it and make someone think you are NA. At the next light, hit the GO switch and give them one helluva surprize.

To be really evil you could pit in a 3k rpm activated switch. The guy would think he's got you until a second after flooring it. The boost and NOS kick in and BAM...taillights baby!!!

BP

Originally posted by ButtonPuncher:
Talk about the ultimate sleeper!!! Throw a big M62 on there that's sprayed and intercooled. Pull up to a light with the SC "off", floor it and make someone think you are NA. At the next light, hit the GO switch and give them one helluva surprize.

To be really evil you could pit in a 3k rpm activated switch. The guy would think he's got you until a second after flooring it. The boost and NOS kick in and BAM...taillights baby!!!

BP

Why not the first light? For me the joy of having a supercharger is having it all the time.

If you want power sometimes you might as well just have nitrous and save yourself the hassle of the supercharger install.

what other type of supercharger can fit on our cars?

Originally posted by ButtonPuncher:
Talk about the ultimate sleeper!!! Throw a big M62 on there that's sprayed and intercooled. Pull up to a light with the SC "off", floor it and make someone think you are NA. At the next light, hit the GO switch and give them one helluva surprize.

To be really evil you could pit in a 3k rpm activated switch. The guy would think he's got you until a second after flooring it. The boost and NOS kick in and BAM...taillights baby!!!

BP

I like the way you think

But the reason i want to be able to turn the s/c off is

1) as mentioned above - i want to be able to turn it off to keep it quiet - and i dont open my bonnet at shows - so the only people who know what it has will be me - you guys and the guys on MEG

2) it dosnt come with a clutch as standard - so i want to know if i see if i can fit one (i like the challenge)

3) I just love the idea of pressing a button, and it winds up, giving off that sound which only a s/c car can make. So if im sat at the lights, and the guy next to me REVS hard (in that - i want a dabble with you kind of way), i can just push the button, and watch his face as the charger springs into life, and starts to purr. (still got the nitrous in reserve in case that dosnt worry them)

Anyway - i had the inlet gasket delivered today, so i can start measuring up for the new manifold. I have been looking into the air/water cooler, and it sounds good - and to be honest - i think now would be be the time to add the cooler, rather than try and add one later.

I'll post up some piccies one i get the first bits designed.

One question though - where would you use the nitrous on one of these, pre or post supercharger? and why?

Thanks for all your responses

Originally posted by zeteckit19's:
what other type of supercharger can fit on our cars?

Almost any charger will fit on any car, at the end of the day, the only constaits are space.

If you put in some time and effort - and a little creative thinking, anything is possible

better show us some video when you get this done

Originally posted by LocoSCZ:

Originally posted by weegee:
Thats a tidy car you have there m8

What boost are you running at? Have you changed your pulley size, or did you just use the one suppluied in the kit?

And on a seperate note: What do you reacon the chances are of connecting the electro-magnetic clutch off an air-con unit to the supercharger - allonging me to turn the supercharger on/off at will (for those moments when you dont want to let the idiot in the lane next to you know that your boosted) - a possibility? And is there any technical reason why a dump valve woulnt work on a s/c car.

Cheers

G

Thanks!

Stock is 3.0" pulley = 3-4 psi
My 2.6" pulley = 7-8 psi
2.3" pulley (sitting in my back seat) 10-11 psi

Why? Under no load/low load there really isn't any boost. The dump valve really isn't necessary due to the fact most superchargers have a bypass valve bolted on them already....in between the supercharger and intake manfold.

In terms of boost, how much is 3-4 psi?? In terms of gains...

Originally posted by zeteckit19's:

Originally posted by LocoSCZ:

Originally posted by weegee:
Thats a tidy car you have there m8

What boost are you running at? Have you changed your pulley size, or did you just use the one suppluied in the kit?

And on a seperate note: What do you reacon the chances are of connecting the electro-magnetic clutch off an air-con unit to the supercharger - allonging me to turn the supercharger on/off at will (for those moments when you dont want to let the idiot in the lane next to you know that your boosted) - a possibility? And is there any technical reason why a dump valve woulnt work on a s/c car.

Cheers

G

Thanks!

Stock is 3.0" pulley = 3-4 psi
My 2.6" pulley = 7-8 psi
2.3" pulley (sitting in my back seat) 10-11 psi

Why? Under no load/low load there really isn't any boost. The dump valve really isn't necessary due to the fact most superchargers have a bypass valve bolted on them already....in between the supercharger and intake manfold.

In terms of boost, how much is 3-4 psi?? In terms of gains...

In reality I don't know. Never dynoed. At 7 psi I gained 40 hp at the wheels.

Originally posted by zeteckit19's:
In terms of boost, how much is 3-4 psi?? In terms of gains...

In a perfect word, you would have 27% more power. Your crank HP would go from 130 to 165. If you have a crappy intercooler, or don't have it tuned properly, that value drops.

((Boost+14.7)/14.7)-1=%HP Gain

4psi=27% Gain
7psi=48% Gain
10psi=68% Gain
14psi=95% Gain

Just think about it. Atmospheric pressure is 14.7psi. If you double the pressure, you double the power.

HTH,
BP

That makes perfect sense... thank you my friend

-Billy

Ahhh, actual math, you are evil....
Only hypotheticals and ricer guesstimates are allowed here....
You must be banished!

Originally posted by SleeperZ:
Ahhh, actual math, you are evil....
Only hypotheticals and ricer guesstimates are allowed here....
You must be banished!

Yeah and here I am posting real world results!

Originally posted by LocoSCZ:

Originally posted by SleeperZ:
Ahhh, actual math, you are evil....
Only hypotheticals and ricer guesstimates are allowed here....
You must be banished!

Yeah and here I am posting real world results!

Hector ... before the supercharger, what was your best mod that you felt best gains or difference in performance??

Originally posted by LocoSCZ:

Originally posted by SleeperZ:
Ahhh, actual math, you are evil....
Only hypotheticals and ricer guesstimates are allowed here....
You must be banished!

Yeah and here I am posting real world results!

What has come of our Zetec world,
its like we are becomeing SVT owners,
tlaking about real mods.

hahaha Sleeper what nitrous setup do you have and do you like it?

Originally posted by LocoSCZ:

Originally posted by ButtonPuncher:
I was just looking through eBay and it seems that a Mercedes M62 supercharger has an electric clutch. Can you swap the nose drive between a M45 and a M62?

[url=Check it out.[/url]

Just a thought. For the true "Mad Max" style supercharger. Flip a switch and hang on.

BP

Why would you turn it off?

Exactly. Not to mention that with a supercharger like Hectors, or the one posted, the engine will not be able to pull air through the vanes and run at all. The vanes seal completely inside the supercharger, allowing it to make the kind of boost that its capable of. No leaks. If you look closely in the link BP posted, you can see vanes mesh 100%. If its not turning, there is NO airflow.

You might be able to build some kind of bypass for the engine to pull in air when the blower is not turning, but I really dont think its worth the effort.

Originally posted by zeteckit19's:
hahaha Sleeper what nitrous setup do you have and do you like it?

Zex universall kit #82011 and I like it alot.
The big seller was the bottle pressure monitor and the fact t uses the TPS voltage to trigger the nitrous injection.
Of course the brand isnt as important as how you run it.

Not necessarily (I can't spell). The more boost you push doesn't not equate (typically) to HP increase. With More boost = more s/c rpms = more heat. Unless you have a way to maintain the air intake temps at a reasonable level the boost will eventually loose it's effectiveness and other this may happen.

for example...in the Lightning world, comparing a 4# lower pulley and a 6# lower pulley, you gain more torque, but the HP gain just isn't there. Why? Because of the heat created from spinning the blower so friggin fast in the upper RPMs......

Bottom line is, you can't just go shoving an ungodly amount of boost down X engine and expect Xsquared results. It's a system and the right pieces need to be in place...

Originally posted by ButtonPuncher:
If you double the pressure, you double the power.

HTH,
BP

Originally posted by zeteckit19's:

Originally posted by LocoSCZ:

Originally posted by SleeperZ:
Ahhh, actual math, you are evil....
Only hypotheticals and ricer guesstimates are allowed here....
You must be banished!

Yeah and here I am posting real world results!

Hector ... before the supercharger, what was your best mod that you felt best gains or difference in performance??

Header.

Originally posted by RTStabler51:
Bottom line is, you can't just go shoving an ungodly amount of boost down X engine and expect Xsquared results. It's a system and the right pieces need to be in place...

If you had completely read my previous posts, you would have noticed that I already stated those facts. See...

Originally posted by ButtonPuncher:
Heat is a big problem with the M45. It is soo small that when you start increasing the boost it REALLY heats up the air.

Originally posted by ButtonPuncher:
In a perfect world... If you have a crappy intercooler, or don't have it tuned properly, that value drops.

BTW, how to spell.

lmao

lol why you poking your nose in here ryan?
oops i guess that goes for me too
/troll

weegee have you seen the guy on turbosport.co.uk who has put a mini cooper supercharger M45 on a vauxhall 2.0XE engine in a mk1 escort. he chopped the existing inlet manifold to stick it on, and even put an intercooler setup on it.

if you done the JRSC you wouldnt need the black box if you got an aftermarket chip, even if you wanted to you couldnt use it cos it will only work on the US focuses.

you will need an aftermarket chip (such as unichip), bigger injectors, and maybe recalibrated maf. the bigger the throttle body the better it will work.

if your gonna run decent boost you will need better engine bay ventilation, and ideally a bigger rad (try from a mondeo V6)

i done a track session the other day and engine bay temps were sky high. i'm on about 7PSI, and now realise i need water injection for future track sessions, cos mine has no intercooler.

also your best off running it on super unleaded.

one of the biggest headaches will be sorting out where all the vacuum pipes go around the inlet manifold etc. i heard that the rover inlet manifold might be a good starting point for putting a mini M45 on a zetec.

i've done a FMIC on my other mondy if you want any ideas for where to mount the IC.

oh and as for �?£300 for a supercharger and nitrous on a zetec in the UK, very best of luck but i doubt thats gonna happen!