Coil on plug?! - CEG Archives

Originally posted by MapOf........:

Originally posted by Stazi:
Hey genius - the outputs for a coil on plug system are TOTALLY different from the ECU to start with.

You can't frikken "git-r-dun" and just wire it up willy nilly. I suggest you take a look at the Conotour PID's and compare them to the Coil-on-plugs PID's from an LS, for example, before you start spouting out about crap you know nothing of, first!

PS - not to mention to firing strategy is tottally different too.

I was looking for this. I am gonna go home and start splicing...when it doesn't run I will come back to this thread crying!

I put coil on plug on my motorcycle why can't i do it on a contour?

if you undestand what it takes for a coil to fire i say it can be done. just a matter of feeding power to each coil and running the correct coil pairs on the negative side for triggering. i thaught of doing it but my funds are low right now. plus it would take a bit of fabricating on the valve covers. would the bennefit be worth it? i say just get some real good plug wires and call it a day.

Originally posted by Stazi:
Hey genius - the outputs for a coil on plug system are TOTALLY different from the ECU to start with.

You can't frikken "git-r-dun" and just wire it up willy nilly. I suggest you take a look at the Conotour PID's and compare them to the Coil-on-plugs PID's from an LS, for example, before you start spouting out about crap you know nothing of, first!

PS - not to mention to firing strategy is tottally different too.

I see not reason for you to be rude about your opinion. I also fell that there is no reason for you to insult other people by saying that they do not know anything about what they are talking.

Here is the wiring of your typical double ended system like what the contour has.

Here is a poor diagram of a Coil-on-plug system out of the V8 Sho. I could not find a better on off hand

The main difference is that the coil on plug setup has a wire for each plug and the contour has a wire for two plugs. I do not see how the firing strategy has anything to do with the question since that is determined by the computer which is not getting changed. there could be a difference in the PID (Parameter Identification Data), but it is just a coil.

The number of turns in the coil pack determines the voltage through the spark plug. The timing is determined by the computer. I think that if someone has access to the coil-on-plugs and has some time, (and they fit the engine) they should be able to try it. My biggest concern would be bolting the coil to the valve cover so that it get a good ground.

Originally posted by Bugzuki:

Originally posted by Stazi:
Hey genius - the outputs for a coil on plug system are TOTALLY different from the ECU to start with.

You can't frikken "git-r-dun" and just wire it up willy nilly. I suggest you take a look at the Conotour PID's and compare them to the Coil-on-plugs PID's from an LS, for example, before you start spouting out about crap you know nothing of, first!

PS - not to mention to firing strategy is tottally different too.

I see not reason for you to be rude about your opinion. I also fell that there is no reason for you to insult other people by saying that they do not know anything about what they are talking.

Dude.. your talking to stazi here, the guy knows more about Contours than anyone, Him and Mapoftazi are friends anyways.

Originally posted by Tourige:
Dude.. your talking to stazi here, the guy knows more about Contours than anyone, Him and Mapoftazi are friends anyways.

That's quite an assumption... on both parts... LOL

Anyone? FRIENDS??? BAH!

Originally posted by Stazi:
willy nilly

i think if it is wired up right it will work. its just a matter of pairing up the coils correctly to the cylinders and have them firing 2 at a time. a slong as one fires on the compression stroke and its partner coil fires on the exhaust stroek of another cylinder it might work out ok. i still think it would be better to just invest in better wires and a better coil pack.

Originally posted by Stazi:

You can't frikken "git-r-dun" and just wire it up willy nilly.

LOL!

If the amps necessary to fire one of the Contour's coils (they have three total) is equal to roughly half of what is needed to fire one of the COP coils, then I say run the two cylinders' COP's in parallel.

If the COP coils are more than half of the resistance of a Contour's single coil, then I wouldn't risk it.

This is the only possible way COP will work without a different ECU.

I started this thread because...I'm too lazy to think this whole thing through right now! LOL

i think i can make a wiring diagram that would make it work. it would probally be a good idea to use a seperate relay to power the coils. the relay could be triggered by the power wire from the stock coil.

Relays will not be fast enough - it has to be solid state. Plus a relay isn't rated for the the repitition and speed required for switching a coil.

This is a pointless excercise.

Originally posted by Stazi:
Hey genius - the outputs for a coil on plug system are TOTALLY different from the ECU to start with.

You can't frikken "git-r-dun" and just wire it up willy nilly. I suggest you take a look at the Conotour PID's and compare them to the Coil-on-plugs PID's from an LS, for example, before you start spouting out about crap you know nothing of, first!

PS - not to mention to firing strategy is tottally different too.

Maybe he means to wire two coils in series or parallel so that each pair acts like a channel of the current coil pack.
The only thing with that is what the impedance would be and how closely it would match the current coil pack. There is no way to know what the electrical characteristics of the spark would be without first calculating coil impedance.
Or couse someone could just wire it up and hope it fires....without burning out the coil driver in the pcm.

But for the sake of argument, lets say that ideally the two coils in series or in parallel would have approximately the same resistance as one of the single coils in the 3 coil pack....then I think it would fire okay and any codes in the pcm would correspond to 'both' coils.
THe only advantage would be the elimination of plug wires.

the relay is just to give constant power to the coils. all the coils will get power from the same relay. each coil ground wire will trigger 2 coils wired parellel to it. since all the trigger wire does is cut off degrounds the coils and changes current path. liek warmonger said the only advantage would be eliminating the plug wires. would that be worth all the effort and money spent. i heard the stock coil in our cars are pretty good. im down for just gettgn a set of realy good plug wires.

Can I just take the wires from the PCM and just wrap them around the ends of the spark plugs? Direct fire baby....

Originally posted by cvkillacontour98:
the relay is just to give constant power to the coils. all the coils will get power from the same relay. each coil ground wire will trigger 2 coils wired parellel to it. since all the trigger wire does is cut off degrounds the coils and changes current path. liek warmonger said the only advantage would be eliminating the plug wires. would that be worth all the effort and money spent. i heard the stock coil in our cars are pretty good. im down for just gettgn a set of realy good plug wires.

This idea for me stemmed from the desire to run the St220 intake manifold.

why does the st220 manifold require running coil on plug. im not sure how the manifold looks. you could just move the coil to another location. did you ever see the pics of the v6 focus. the coil was moved i forgot to where though. might have been under the throttle body somewhere.

Originally posted by cvkillacontour98:
why does the st220 manifold require running coil on plug. im not sure how the manifold looks. you could just move the coil to another location. did you ever see the pics of the v6 focus. the coil was moved i forgot to where though. might have been under the throttle body somewhere.

Yes, that can be done. But you need custom length wires...really not a big deal, but if cut and splice COP was possible...well

1) Go check out the cost of the coli-on-plugs...yeah NOT cheap
2) They have the habit of not lasting long <40,000mi
3) Good chance you'll fry the ECU due to incorrect impedence from running the coils

I know someone who is running the ST220 manifold and all they did was put the stock coil under the plastic windsheild cowl.

there you go problem solved.

Originally posted by Stazi:
1) Go check out the cost of the coli-on-plugs...yeah NOT cheap
2) They have the habit of not lasting long <40,000mi
3) Good chance you'll fry the ECU due to incorrect impedence from running the coils

I know someone who is running the ST220 manifold and all they did was put the stock coil under the plastic windsheild cowl.

1. Junkyards own
2. Junkyards still own
3. I know about so and so's set up.

Originally posted by cvkillacontour98:
why does the st220 manifold require running coil on plug. im not sure how the manifold looks. you could just move the coil to another location. did you ever see the pics of the v6 focus. the coil was moved i forgot to where though. might have been under the throttle body somewhere.

Here is a small pic I found. Very small.

-tropictour
Heres a better one.

so what are the bennefots of the st220 manifold? it looks a bit similar to the 3.0 uim that i have sitting in the closet waiting to be installed except for the real big plenum.

Longer runners, ideal for FI.
-tropictour

Originally posted by tropictour:
Longer runners, ideal for FI.
-tropictour

Since when? For FI the SHORTER the better.

Originally posted by Stazi:

Originally posted by tropictour:
Longer runners, ideal for FI.
-tropictour

Since when? For FI the SHORTER the better.

I have to agree this time.

The only time long runners are better is when you are trying to get some naturally aspirated Resonate Ram Tuning effect at lower RPM ranges. There are always piping losses that increase with increase length.

i heard that short runners is better for f.i. plus a decent sized plenum too. i heard the plenum should have half the capacity of the engines displacement. most of the realy high turbo powered cars ive seen use real short runners with a more aerodynamic manifold design. all of those 1000hp supras have a manifold similar to the skyline because the supras stock manifold is restrictive at a certain power range.

St220's runners are tapered which is the main reason why it's superior

tapered ?

tapered plenums

Originally posted by Stazi:
2) They have the habit of not lasting long <40,000mi

After four years of running a shop I never once saw an Expedition or Excursion or Lincoln or Mustang with COP that when one of the coils went, it didn't have anything less than six digits on the odometer.

Hell my Mazda6 was in this so called range of failure with an MSD Stacker 8-channel box supplying power (Something else you guys forgot about in this conversation) to them and they never failed once or even misfired.

can someone describe a tapered plenum to me.

Originally posted by cvkillacontour98:
can someone describe a tapered plenum to me.

Well it's tappered for her pleasure!

Originally posted by cvkillacontour98:
can someone describe a tapered plenum to me.

Tapered.. as in one end is smaller then the other end of the runner.

Depending on the plenum design it could be tapered too but the original tapered comment was about runners.

Originally posted by WRX Barge:

Originally posted by cvkillacontour98:
can someone describe a tapered plenum to me.

Tapered.. as in one end is smaller then the other end of the poop.

No, it's when the ends are smaller than the middle. Like poop.

Sweet.. I'm gonna make a custom intake with poop shaped runners for my WRX.

Usually the runners are tappered from the plenum to the valves. This taper causes the air to compress inside and removes some of the air that has stopped along the runner wall.

That is not a very good description, so I will try to explain it better. The wall of the runner is not moving, so the air touching it can not move, or moves very slowly. The longer the runner the more air stacks up along the wall. If the runner is tappered the cross sectional area decreases making less space for that air to build up. The ideal taper is approximately 5% decrease in diameter per inch of runner length.

The ideal size of the plenum is 1.5 times the engine displacement. If it is any bigger than that you end up with a loss in throttle response. If it is much smaller you end up with uneven flow to the cylinders.

Hope that clears up the issue some.