Poly roll resistor - CEG Archives

Originally posted by Rickson:
So this thing actually takes away some of the motion between gears. Please elaborate!!

When I used to shift, my engine would shake in the low rpms. In another example, let's say I am cruising at 5-10 mphs in first gear and I let my foot off the gas. My car used to jerk abruptly and violently. Now it smoothly revs down without the harsh movement. And how can it be so hard to understand that it takes turns so much smoother? I thought it was a given.

When I would come around a turn and hit a small bump my wheel would hop off the ground and land back on the pavement at a slightly different angle causing my car to kick a different direction a little bit. Also, my steering wheel would shake. Now, my steering wheel doesn't shake and my car is much tighter around the bends.

I'm sorry, was I just making this sh*t up? Highly doubt it. To summarize AGAIN, great modification. If you want your mount out, take the thing out. In my case, I love it!

Originally posted by Ike:
Just had my poly mount installed today. Let me tell ya, the engine is SO stiff I can feel the vibrations of the engine clear through the steering wheel.

Talked me out of it (not that I needed convincing).

Originally posted by Ike:

I love it! Better cornering, no wheel hop, and NO oversteer!

Better Cornering!?!

Originally posted by Ike:

I'm willing to bet that this is the most worthwhile modification I've done to my car so far.

Well "I'm willing to bet" your stock mounts were completely worn out. I think there are only a small number of owners on the radical fringe who would benefit from this mod - and they probably don't use their car for daily transportation. NO WAY would I accept the NVH problems this causes on a daily driver. If you could drive your car with new factory mounts, you would certainly prefer it.

The problem is that you don't seem to realize the difference between a modification and a repair. If your car's rubber bits were so shot that the engine and tranny were falling out of the car, then of course it'll drive like crap. But the poly mount doesn't have any advantage over a rubber one in those areas.

That's like saying that your new Stazi kit brakes are just incredible because your old brakes were so worn that you were rubbing the backing plate on the vanes of the rotor.

Ok, then that is probably the problem then. Because BOTH my roll resistors were COMPLETELY shot. So I'm going from having no support, to having support again. I'm just thrilled my car finally has stability, without understanding that getting new stock mounts will give the same effect. I'm just going off my experience. Oh yeah, and I don't mind the NVH, in fact, I kind of like it.

Originally posted by Auto-X Fil:

Originally posted by Ike:
Just had my poly mount installed today. Let me tell ya, the engine is SO stiff I can feel the vibrations of the engine clear through the steering wheel.

Mine got better with time, but the NVH is still serious.

Is there a softer uerothane than can be used to better balance NVH?

Originally posted by Ike:
Ok, then that is probably the problem then. Because BOTH my roll resistors were COMPLETELY shot. So I'm going from having no support, to having support again. I'm just thrilled my car finally has stability, without understanding that getting new stock mounts will give the same effect. I'm just going off my experience. Oh yeah, and I don't mind the NVH, in fact, I kind of like it.

To each his own. You probably would have been nearly as thrilled with new stock mounts (minus the NVH) but if you like the noise and vibration then have at it.

I put a rear poly mount in, and it wasn't for me. Recently swapped in front and rear stockers, much improved.

Originally posted by Auto-X Fil:

Originally posted by Ike:
Just had my poly mount installed today. Let me tell ya, the engine is SO stiff I can feel the vibrations of the engine clear through the steering wheel.

Mine got better with time, but the NVH is still serious.

Odd.....I have hardly any vibration in my SVT and formerly my SE....as those that have ridden in it can attest to (hetfield, 99contourdriver)

Originally posted by Auto-X Fil:

Originally posted by Ike:
I'm willing to bet that this is the most worthwhile modification I've done to my car so far.

You realize that you would have gotten most of the good and none of the NVH with a stock piece, right?

Whole-heartedly disagree

Performance wise, a stock mount(even new) will not come close to my poly units performance wise. Out of over 75 orders now, i've had 3 returned because NVH was too much for comfort.....i'm investigating an NVH/install corelation at present time and will be releasing my findings soon, as i believe those experienceing excessive NVH may have improperly located the motor at install locking it in a mis-aligned position.

I said MOST of the good. Are you denying that he would have seen nearly the same results with stock mounts?

Originally posted by Auto-X Fil:
I said MOST of the good. Are you denying that he would have seen nearly the same results with stock mounts?

Yes...key word there is nearly. Would things have improved, certainly, i don't deny that at all. However the poly mounts are still going to greatly out-perform.

This is NOT directed at anyone in particular... but I have a DAILY driver with the ES front insert and the pole120 poly'd rear mount. Yes, I feel more vibration through my steering wheel. Yes, I had cabin rattles before this mod and they were a little bit worse after this mod. Could I have put in new stock units? Yes. But why PAY for stock replacements to be STUCK with wheel hop and a bouncing engine on shifts?

So some of you can't stand noise or vibration. Then do NOT consider headers, do NOT get 17 and 18 inch wheels with harsh riding, noisy road hum 45 profile performance tires, do NOT stiffen your suspension, do NOT get an open element air filter, do NOT run your tires pressures over 28, remove that noisy cat back, and please NEVER ride with your windows open.

I don't enjoy a living room sofa luxocruiser (or plain vanilla Camry I-4 automatic) with 75 profile quiet ride/gas miser tires for listening to chamber music. I wanted an SVT and I prefer handle over Handel. But that's just me.

Say hello to everyone at the Bingo hall for me.

Originally posted by JEDsContour:

Talked me out of it (not that I needed convincing).

The way I see it, I dont think you have a choice. You may REQUIRE it. But youre in a different boat than most.

OK, maybe not require, but you may find benefit in having it with the amount of hp/tq you'll be putting out when its all said and done.

Obviously you weren't talking to me, but there's no problem with wanting stock mounts. Wheelhop is a bit annoying, but if you don't race the car, I don't think the NVH is worth it. You're not a wimp if you like a comfortable, quiet car. Many of us prefer to sacrifice comfort for performance, but not everyone will see the benifit of the poly-filled RR.

Again, I have one and I like it. It's worth it for me: but I probably have the least comfortable 'tour on here that's still a DD. And if I could get rid of wheelhop without the NVH, I would. I'm just sick of people raving about the roll resistors as being amazing, when they're replacing air, not stock rubber. The NVH is bad enough that I would certainly get stock mounts for any car where the wheelhop isn't an issue, despite the shorter lifespan.

I never knew my engine would be as stiff as it is now. Especially with headers the car is absoloutly horrible to be in. EVERYTHING in my car rattles and Im almost fed up. I have brand new OEM stock mounts that I will put back in ASAP. I never experienced wheel hop or anything. I just want my smooth ride back instead of my steering wheel be my hand massager..

Originally posted by Goonz SVT:
I never knew my engine would be as stiff as it is now. Especially with headers the car is absoloutly horrible to be in. EVERYTHING in my car rattles and Im almost fed up. I have brand new OEM stock mounts that I will put back in ASAP. I never experienced wheel hop or anything. I just want my smooth ride back instead of my steering wheel be my hand massager..

Girly man

It comes down to what compromises you can accept for your car to drag well. Maybe these are a benefit for other racing also.

If you never want to run your car like that, you do NOT need these. And you likely won't need a Quaife or Torsen either.

Originally posted by Auto-X Fil:
I'm just sick of people raving about the roll resistors as being amazing, when they're replacing air, not stock rubber.

What are you saying here, i don't follow?

Originally posted by Goonz SVT:
I never knew my engine would be as stiff as it is now. EVERYTHING in my car rattles and Im almost fed up.

Like i said, i've had this complaint from a select fiew people, and i'm investigating a possible cause.....could it be that the engines vibration is being worsened by your missfire? I don't know, what i do know is that some have issues while others dont, and i think(have not confirmed yet) that positioning of the motor is the root cause.

Originally posted by PDXSVT:
If you never want to run your car like that, you do NOT need these. And you likely won't need a Quaife or Torsen either.

And i have turned away potential customers for that very reason. I'm not doing this to make money...and i don't. I'm not going to sell something to someone that doesn't need it's benifits, and i'm always more than happy to accept returns if they're unhappy with the resulting NVH.

Originally posted by pole120:

Originally posted by Goonz SVT:
I never knew my engine would be as stiff as it is now. EVERYTHING in my car rattles and Im almost fed up.

Like i said, i've had this complaint from a select fiew people, and i'm investigating a possible cause.....could it be that the engines vibration is being worsened by your missfire? I don't know, what i do know is that some have issues while others dont, and i think(have not confirmed yet) that positioning of the motor is the root cause.

it was like that before the missfire..Im sure the headers are causing it because with oem ones with the headers, the vibration was almost perfect, now with the new mounts its almost unbearable..there not for me i guess..

Originally posted by Auto-X Fil:
Obviously you weren't talking to me, but there's no problem with wanting stock mounts. Wheelhop is a bit annoying, but if you don't race the car, I don't think the NVH is worth it. You're not a wimp if you like a comfortable, quiet car. Many of us prefer to sacrifice comfort for performance, but not everyone will see the benifit of the poly-filled RR.

Again, I have one and I like it. It's worth it for me: but I probably have the least comfortable 'tour on here that's still a DD. And if I could get rid of wheelhop without the NVH, I would. I'm just sick of people raving about the roll resistors as being amazing, when they're replacing air, not stock rubber. The NVH is bad enough that I would certainly get stock mounts for any car where the wheelhop isn't an issue, despite the shorter lifespan.

I beg to differ! I have both the front and rear mounts. Which actually has less vibration than the rear poly mount alone. I also have konis and GC's. A spec stage 2 with fidanza. I love my car, but most people who get into my car think the damn thing is a race car. I have more rattles than I can keep track of...it seriously makes things easier. WTF was that!? Oh wait WTF was that other noise?! I just give up.

The only thing I can see being a prob with this mod is that I may snap axles now.

One more point, wtf are you talking about just replacing air?!

goonie..come back to my house and i will take them out for you.

as payment i want your rear filled mount!
hehe

Originally posted by ElKy da Stalker:
goonie..come back to my house and i will take them out for you.

as payment i want your rear filled mount!
hehe

if you'll swap out both of them, then agreed

let me know ASAP

too late on goonzs mounts unless he changes his mind im going to buy them off of him

You must've intaled them preloaded for it to be that bad - but then agian you have shown on numerous occasions how much of a puss you are. LOL

We'll harden you into a man at SZ....nothing a teabagging and soapblock filled sock won't cure!

Originally posted by Stazi:
You must've intaled them preloaded for it to be that bad

What do you mean installed them preloaded?

THe motor was tweaked so that with both mounts installed in that position they fight each other trying to hold the motor. That extra compression on eahc mount makes them transmit more NVH due to the corresponding increase in the density of the compressed poly.

Originally posted by Stazi:
THe motor was tweaked so that with both mounts installed in that position they fight each other trying to hold the motor. That extra compression on eahc mount makes them transmit more NVH due to the corresponding increase in the density of the compressed poly.

EXACTLY what i was getting at with locating the motor!!!

Thank's for explaining it better Stazi.

Josh

Originally posted by pole120:

Originally posted by Auto-X Fil:
I'm just sick of people raving about the roll resistors as being amazing, when they're replacing air, not stock rubber.

What are you saying here, i don't follow?

I'm saying that the rubber is gone: that is, there's nothing between the bolt and housing but air, and a few scraps of rubber.

As for the excessive NVH: it's possible to have it be much worse if it's installed wrong. I had it preloaded badly the first time, and I thought I was going to tear the mount off. After loosening the tension on the mount, the vibration calmed down a lot.

Originally posted by Auto-X Fil:

Originally posted by pole120:

Originally posted by Auto-X Fil:
I'm just sick of people raving about the roll resistors as being amazing, when they're replacing air, not stock rubber.

What are you saying here, i don't follow?

I'm saying that the rubber is gone: that is, there's nothing between the bolt and housing but air, and a few scraps of rubber.

I understand what you're saying, you are refering to a condition that appears only in worn pre-98 mounts....post 98 mounts are of different construction and are not suseptable to this issue.

If i can get time i'll snap some pics if you're not with me here...

Originally posted by Mid Life Crisis:

Is there a softer uerothane than can be used to better balance NVH?

Yeah, me too.

if you want a softer mount then just buy a new stock mount. pole makes them harder shore for performance purposes

Originally posted by Stazi:
THe motor was tweaked so that with both mounts installed in that position they fight each other trying to hold the motor. That extra compression on eahc mount makes them transmit more NVH due to the corresponding increase in the density of the compressed poly.

Is there a way to check this? Or how would you recommend installing them (info for the masses!)?

I personally just used a jack lifted just enough under the back of the tranny to ensure that its weight would be supported when I removed the mount. Do not use the jack to lift the tranny up, but it should be extended up enough so that the transmission/motor doesnt move when the mount is removed. Correct or not so much?

FWIW, my NVH increased quite a bit, but nothing that I couldnt get used to. I really never notice now, until I take a ride in someone elses 'tour and Im like "dang this is smooth!" LOL.

It all boils down to what your willing to live with vs. performance benefits. If you never launch your car or dont know what wheelhop is, this isnt for you. Though if your willing to sacrifice a little vibration for no wheelhop, go for it. I dont launch my car that much (no money for a diff), but when I do, its so nice now not to have the horrible shakedown of wheelhop like I used to get. The NVH isnt anything you cant live with.

Originally posted by 1slosvt:
if you want a softer mount then just buy a new stock mount. pole makes them harder shore for performance purposes

There's more than one way to skin a cat. I think a lot of people would go for a mount that is stiffer than stock but not as stiff as these ones. And besides, if it was all about performance, why not make solid mounts out of aluminum?

how about a completely solid rubber mount would that be better than stock but not as harsh as the urethane. all my previous cars have had solid rubber mounts. is that why the contour feels so jerky between shifts? the front mount is almost hollow and the rear one has lots of holes in it. whats the deal with that? i like the way by frineds 96 maxima feels. i can shift it so fast and smooth that it feels like an automatic. it seems like most american cars that i drove and were stick are jerky. my girls cavalier is the worst i hate driving her car. i realy hate having to shift slow so my car wont jerk , i have new mounts and the insert on the front mount.

Originally posted by KingpinSVT:

Originally posted by JEDsContour:

Talked me out of it (not that I needed convincing).

The way I see it, I dont think you have a choice. You may REQUIRE it. But youre in a different boat than most.

OK, maybe not require, but you may find benefit in having it with the amount of hp/tq you'll be putting out when its all said and done.

Well... I see it the same way you do. How about that? That quote was directed towards daily drivers. The mods I'm making to my 99 SVT definitely put me on the radical fringe horsepower-wise and Iâ�?��?�ll be making all kinds of NVH compromises both there and in the suspension. Of course Iâ�?��?�m interested in poly filled mounts and I hope Pole120 is still making them.

But that is not going to be my daily driver!

SVTs can be sporty and handle great without vibrating the crap out of everything in them. IMHO NVH is just as important a part of a balanced daily driven sporty car as power and handling. The car should be a pleasure to drive in all respects â�?��?? at least if Iâ�?��?�m going to drive it every day!

Maybe its just a matter of taste and maturity.

I drive mine everyday and I didnt experience much more rattling than before. My car never really rattled anyway. But it is a comprimise. BTW Stazi, I think you just scared away about 20 people from SZ06 for making the teabagging and soap in a sock comment.

-tropictour

Is the NVH only bad at idle? My dad and I put a transmission brace w/soild rubber mount on his A4 and the NVH isnt bad, but its noticable at idle, but only at idle.

I just drove from East Lansing to Grand Rapids. Scott (biggsvT28) was with me and he felt the steering wheel and the NVH is minimal at best. Granted I believe I installed mine correctly. That is after I installed my motor and drove it around some...I loosened up the bolts on each one, and set the car down and turned it on to let it idle for a moment. Just to get the engine straight. I then jacked it back up and tightened it all up.

Seriously guys, my dads brand new accord has more NVH on the steering wheel than my contour.

Originally posted by Pudmunkie:
Is the NVH only bad at idle? My dad and I put a transmission brace w/soild rubber mount on his A4 and the NVH isnt bad, but its noticable at idle, but only at idle.

Mine is only noticeable at idle, and that is only because my car has been idling low lately. If I bring the idle to wear it should actually be, there is no vibration at all. Feels like stock with just a hint more vibration.

Originally posted by Stazi:
You must've intaled them preloaded for it to be that bad - but then agian you have shown on numerous occasions how much of a puss you are. LOL

We'll harden you into a man at SZ....nothing a teabagging and soapblock filled sock won't cure!

I did not install them. The shop that did my headers did it. When I saw him do it, the car was on a drive on lift and a loong jack supporting the motor or tranny (cant remember straight)

what is the correct methood of installing? and having it installed the wrong way, will it effect my car badly?

That method is ok... but you might want to loosen the front and rear mount through bolts and see if the engine "settles".

For me... I get minimal NVH as long as the rear mount through bolt is at the top of the mount tube. If I start getting some decent NVH, I loosen the rear bolt and the rear of the engine usually drops... or else I have to pry it back down. I'm not sure if this is "normal", but this is how my car is. The minimal NVH is felt through the steering wheel... nothing rattles from it.

My front mount is solid 94a as well... so is it possible that untouched front mounts, or ES inserts don't balance out the resistence? I thought I read here, years ago, that if the rear mount is filled then the front should be too, or the front mount might get trashed.

goonz whenever you want them out, just let me know.
or if you want we can try to 'relax' them first to see if you really want to get rid of them.

Originally posted by ElKy da Stalker:
goonz whenever you want them out, just let me know.
or if you want we can try to 'relax' them first to see if you really want to get rid of them.

no, i want them out NOW..lol

Originally posted by Goonz SVT:

Originally posted by ElKy da Stalker:
goonz whenever you want them out, just let me know.
or if you want we can try to 'relax' them first to see if you really want to get rid of them.

no, i want them out NOW..lol

U R GH3Y!

having a very stiff ride isnt for everyone so goonz its ok that u want them out especially since im buying them soon and then i will have the mounts i want and u wont be out the money for something you arent even using

Originally posted by Stazi:

Originally posted by Goonz SVT:

Originally posted by ElKy da Stalker:
goonz whenever you want them out, just let me know.
or if you want we can try to 'relax' them first to see if you really want to get rid of them.

no, i want them out NOW..lol

U R GH3Y!

okay stazi

Originally posted by Goonz SVT:

Originally posted by Stazi:

Originally posted by Goonz SVT:

Originally posted by ElKy da Stalker:
goonz whenever you want them out, just let me know.
or if you want we can try to 'relax' them first to see if you really want to get rid of them.

no, i want them out NOW..lol

U R GH3Y!

okay stazi

[outback steak house stazi] Its like fuud from tha futcha[/outback steak house stazi]

Originally posted by Goonz SVT:

Originally posted by Stazi:

Originally posted by Goonz SVT:

Originally posted by ElKy da Stalker:
goonz whenever you want them out, just let me know.
or if you want we can try to 'relax' them first to see if you really want to get rid of them.

no, i want them out NOW..lol

U R GH3Y!

okay stazi

I agree. I have both mounts and have less NVH than with just the rear mount that I ran around with for a year. The only guy that is agreeing with you is the guy who wants to buy them off you...lol!

If you want to feel real nvh install a solid AL rear mount. The car buzzes in tune with the motor revs. Ask Pole and Kyle they have both experienced it.

Originally posted by PDXSVT:
I prefer handle over Handel.

i agree with what you said though...

i have my own opinions here. yes i am buying them but that does not make me bias as to him getting rid of them if he doesnt want to i would just buy them from pole but i do agree that 2 stiffer mounts have to have more nvh than 2 brand new factory mounts. it maybe minimal but still more none the less. odds are if theres alot then the mounts are binding up or preloaded and will cause alot more nvh and not work correctly.

Originally posted by Auto-X Fil:
I probably have the least comfortable 'tour on here that's still a DD.

Originally posted by classified add for your car:
I've managed to eliminate almost all major NVH now. It is stiff, and it is louder than stock, but it's still a very comfortable car.

Notice that I said the least comfortable DD. I wasn't implying I have an uncomfortable car, just that I've made more sacrifices for performance than others. Contours are inherently comfortable cars, and stiff springs and poly bits don't make it a bad driving experience. My poly roll resistor adds less noise than an exhaust would. It's noticeable, and I'd rather do without, but it's not huge.

Originally posted by Auto-X Fil:
Notice that I said the least comfortable DD. I wasn't implying I have an uncomfortable car, just that I've made more sacrifices for performance than others. Contours are inherently comfortable cars, and stiff springs and poly bits don't make it a bad driving experience. My poly roll resistor adds less noise than an exhaust would. It's noticeable, and I'd rather do without, but it's not huge.

You got caught in a lie/exaggeration! Let it go...

Are you doubting that my car is comfortable, or that it's the least comfortable DD Contour on here?

I really believe both statements are true. Unless there's someone driving around with a very modified car that I don't know about, most DD Contours are pretty nice.

Originally posted by Auto-X Fil:
Are you doubting that my car is comfortable, or that it's the least comfortable DD Contour on here?

I really believe both statements are true. Unless there's someone driving around with a very modified car that I don't know about, most DD Contours are pretty nice.

I'm not sure which I am doubting...which do you prefer because it cannot be both!

I won't bother, since Pete's not going to be reasonable and mature.

Originally posted by Auto-X Fil:
Unless there's someone driving around with a very modified car that I don't know about

Take a ride in mine some time....If your car is comforitable thats great, i just found it funny that you said both, no harm\flaming intended here....

Originally posted by pole120:

Originally posted by Auto-X Fil:
Unless there's someone driving around with a very modified car that I don't know about

Take a ride in mine some time....If your car is comforitable thats great, i just found it funny that you said both, no harm\flaming intended here....

Do you DD your car?

If so, I take back that statement completely: I still have rubber in MANY places you have poly - or steel rod ends! I know you were just winking at the apparent contradiction, it's Pete that insisted on being an e-thug.

You know the numerous mods to my car it is still my DD.

It just wasn't over last winter.

I don't get this. I don't see anything so contradictory about Auto-X's comments to make a fuss about. Help me out here. Is this some Michigan State vs Penn State agenda or something?

Originally posted by Auto-X Fil:
Do you DD your car? If so, I take back that statement completely

No choice since i totaled the SE, oh well. I hate driving it on the street.....untill i take a corner

I don't think anyone is really making a fuss. Seems to me that Pete is trying to be funny and Philip doesn't do funny.

Originally posted by pole120:

Originally posted by Auto-X Fil:
Do you DD your car? If so, I take back that statement completely

No choice since i totaled the SE, oh well. I hate driving it on the street.....untill i take a corner

You hate it! Idk, I mean...I never get into bad traffic. Most of my driving is highway to and fro school. I do some around town, but mostly just flossin from a slow roll in downtown EL.

What is the E.L. Pete?

Originally posted by Ike:
What is the E.L. Pete?

East Lansing, MI