Contour Enthusiasts Group Archives
Posted By: Goonz SVT CAI - 03/02/06 08:53 PM
well I was taking off my bumper so I figured I take some pic for those of u wondering how my CAI sits..its been I believe 7 months since I've had my CAI and I've gone along to like alot now..its really mellow..anywho my filter however is a mess and I'll prolly clean it or get a new one soon..here it is..dont mind the salt and sand..yuck








dont worry I dont drive with that fog open for air, it may seem close but it really isnt
Posted By: pimpdcontour Re: CAI - 03/02/06 09:03 PM
is that n e better then the short ram other then heat soak? i got the ai pipe just have not installed it yet, waiting till spring so i don't ruin my k@n.
Posted By: Goonz SVT Re: CAI - 03/02/06 09:05 PM
Originally posted by pimpdcontour:
is that n e better then the short ram other then heat soak? i got the ai pipe just have not installed it yet, waiting till spring so i don't ruin my k@n.




its not as loud as short ram..I had the ru3530 before and that was awesome loud! I wanted to try somthing different with a little more mellow sound to it and the CAI has served me well
Posted By: pimpdcontour Re: CAI - 03/02/06 09:14 PM
were there any power gains or losses? from the short ram to the true cold air?
Posted By: Goonz SVT Re: CAI - 03/02/06 09:30 PM
Originally posted by pimpdcontour:
were there any power gains or losses? from the short ram to the true cold air?




felt the same to me..I'll find out once I get my car running again with the headers and etc..lol
Posted By: Auto-X Fil Re: CAI - 03/02/06 10:13 PM
My data shows that the air in my short-ram is exactly the same temperature as the exterior air. The fenderwell air is plenty cold enough: there are no gains to be had from a long tube.
Posted By: pimpdcontour Re: CAI - 03/02/06 10:16 PM
are there any graphs that can prove this. not that i don't beleive but hell, if they are the sam ei might just sell my cai pipe then and just make a nother heat shield for the short ram.
Posted By: Auto-X Fil Re: CAI - 03/02/06 10:24 PM
I don't have a data logging thermometer. I put a temp sensor in the accordian tube, and one outside on the car. They were within 2-3* all the time, often within 1*. I'll do more tests this summer when it gets hot and I'm autocrossing and really heating things up under the hood at low speeds, but it looks pretty solid so far.
Posted By: pimpdcontour Re: CAI - 03/02/06 10:29 PM
ok kool. i am also form pa so i hate the summer heat here since i drive a black tour also.
Posted By: weargle Re: CAI - 03/02/06 10:34 PM
Originally posted by pimpdcontour:
ok kool. i am also form pa so i hate the summer heat here since i drive a black tour also.




Y'all have a lot in common, then.
Posted By: The Digital Slacker Re: CAI - 03/02/06 11:59 PM
I'm from PA with a red tour? lol
Posted By: Guitarman19853 Re: CAI - 03/03/06 02:16 AM
how often do you have to clean the filter? i would imagine it would get very dirty very fast...
Posted By: Ray_dup1 Re: CAI - 03/03/06 02:24 AM
Originally posted by pimpdcontour:
ok kool. i am also form pa so i hate the summer heat here since i drive a black tour also.




HAHAHAHAHAHAHA


Sorry.. I don't know why I found that amusing, sitting here in SOUTHERN TEXAS IN MARCH AT 86-88 DEGREES and 70% humidity!
Posted By: Goonz SVT Re: CAI - 03/03/06 02:55 AM
Originally posted by Guitarman19853:
how often do you have to clean the filter? i would imagine it would get very dirty very fast...




mine is pretty much blasted with sand..it was really really dirty..I must order a new one very shortly..Im very surprised
Posted By: CSVT1214 Re: CAI - 03/03/06 03:46 AM
Originally posted by Goonz SVT:
Originally posted by Guitarman19853:
how often do you have to clean the filter? i would imagine it would get very dirty very fast...




mine is pretty much blasted with sand..it was really really dirty..I must order a new one very shortly..Im very surprised




You do realize that you just clean a K&N and not replace it?
Posted By: Goonz SVT Re: CAI - 03/03/06 03:55 AM
Originally posted by CSVT1214:
Originally posted by Goonz SVT:
Originally posted by Guitarman19853:
how often do you have to clean the filter? i would imagine it would get very dirty very fast...




mine is pretty much blasted with sand..it was really really dirty..I must order a new one very shortly..Im very surprised




You do realize that you just clean a K&N and not replace it?




yea but im thinking about getting a different sized one..
Posted By: Pre98 Re: CAI - 03/03/06 03:56 AM
Originally posted by Auto-X Fil:
there are no gains to be had from a long tube.




Not trying to start an arguement, but are you certain? I don't want to sound like a young punk thinking it gave me 20 horsepower, but it certainly pulls harder than it did with my K&N sitting in the enginebay

Without data, I would guess a CAI would be horrible on hot days because it would suck in hot air that's been resting on 100 degree pavement all day. However, in the winter, it is a completely different story (obviously).

Anyways good pics Goonz. I should have taken more reference pics myself.
Posted By: Goonz SVT Re: CAI - 03/03/06 04:13 AM
Originally posted by Pre98:


Anyways good pics Goonz. I should have taken more reference pics myself.




I had to chop the pipe in the bottom to raise the filter because it was sitting really really low..but that was also due to my air bypass vlave..that thing is sweet!
Posted By: Auto-X Fil Re: CAI - 03/03/06 11:50 AM
Originally posted by Pre98:
Not trying to start an arguement, but are you certain? I don't want to sound like a young punk thinking it gave me 20 horsepower, but it certainly pulls harder than it did with my K&N sitting in the enginebay




I should note that I have a prefectly sealed airbox. A short ram with no box, or just a shield, may not be very good at all: I have no data for that.
Posted By: MapOfTaziFoSho Re: CAI - 03/03/06 04:40 PM
Originally posted by Auto-X Fil:
Originally posted by Pre98:
Not trying to start an arguement, but are you certain? I don't want to sound like a young punk thinking it gave me 20 horsepower, but it certainly pulls harder than it did with my K&N sitting in the enginebay




I should note that I have a prefectly sealed airbox. A short ram with no box, or just a shield, may not be very good at all: I have no data for that.




I will get some data on this...I will be datalogging with my new set up. I will have the intake in the engine bay and then later it will be out of the engine bay.
Posted By: Pre98 Re: CAI - 03/03/06 05:32 PM
sweet
Posted By: BV1 Re: CAI - 06/19/06 12:10 AM
Sorry to ressurect this, but I had to interject.

CAI intakes will always provide more torque and better timing advance then a standard WAI.

Also if you throw a heat shield around a WAI, you are creating more restriction at high RPM, and if you say no Im not creating more restriction, then your still drawing in warm air. Its that simple. If your filtering the air that is available to the engine (heatshield) then your a forcing a new path for air to be selected from, hence creating more restriction. (Even if its slight)

I used to manufacture custom CAI's for Hyundai between 2000-2004, I sold about 100-150 on ebay. I got bored of it, and the money in it dried up as my designs got copied ... and I was jsut doing this on the side anyways. But... I will come up with something, one piece, mandrel bent for the CSVT shortly. I just got my first one yesterday

The fenderwell CAI is the best you can get as far as performance is concenered, hands down. Drawing from on top of the hood or through a hood scoop yields trouble in city traffic (warm air rises) but offers benefits (RAM air) on the highway. This had been dealt with on many forums and many cars, and unless the CSVT has a very well vented engine bay.... it will apply.

The absolute best NA (temperature) setup (aside from porting/TB's etc) would be a heat wrapped true fenderwell CAI with a wrapped header and a custom exhaust with a hood vent blowing onto the Intake manifold.

I dont have my notes here, but as most of the Hyundais I dealt with were 2.0L's I had an example of an empty 2L of pop in 75 degrees and in 105 degrees.

With the cap on in 75 degrees, placing the bottle into 105 degree weather yields a hair over 1.4 PSI (or around 10% increase) of pressure. Boost is power.

Also taking the 105 degree bottle with the cap off and placing it into 75 degree weather (or water) caused the bottle to decrease in volume by about 10%.

The bottom line is there is more air molecules in 2.0L of cold air, then 2.0L's of warm air.


You can verify any numbers you'd like using the gas pressure vs temperature equations available at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Density_of_air

It is HIGHLY... unlikely that a WAI with a shield will be within 1-3 degeres fahrenhight of a true CAI. I measured an average of 25 degrees F difference after 10 minutes of runtime, and that was on a nice big enginebay with a small engine.

http://www.members.shaw.ca/diatech/Tiburon/Engine.jpg

I measured up to 50 degrees difference while sitting in traffic. This really.. really... retards the timing, and it wont clear right away as soon as you get cold air again.
---
Bottomline:

There are 3 disadvantes to a true CAI:

1) Hard to install
2) HARDER to keep clean (danger of engine damage in deep water)
3) There can a "slight" (I mean like 200 ms) increase in throttle response time, due to the longer pipe.

The 4 big advantages:

1) More TQ throughout the powerband
2) Means higher average HP
3) A slightly greater peak HP
4) Less chance of detonation.

The big one is the TQ, you will pick up more peak TQ with a true CAI, noticably moer, but your peak HP may only increase slightly (2-3 HP) due to other restrictions at high RPMS.

Hope this helps clear up the debate... or at least add to it

-Steve
Posted By: Goonz SVT Re: CAI - 06/19/06 12:30 AM
very interesting
Posted By: muntus Re: CAI - 06/19/06 12:54 AM
Best newbie post ever.
Posted By: Goonz SVT Re: CAI - 06/19/06 03:46 PM
Originally posted by muntus:
Best newbie post ever.




agreed!

I'm curious to see what you come up with..
Posted By: pimpdcontour Re: CAI - 06/19/06 07:39 PM
Originally posted by Goonz SVT:
Originally posted by muntus:
Best newbie post ever.




agreed!

I'm curious to see what you come up with..





very interrested!!!
Posted By: Pudmunkie Re: CAI - 06/19/06 09:16 PM
He is not taking into account that with a heatshield you pull cool air fromt he fender, into the cool box area created by the shield. The same air a CAI would pick up.

Goonz dont go and buy another CAI just because its new!
Posted By: PDXSVT Re: CAI - 06/19/06 09:39 PM
Would you expect air underneath the battery to be a lot cooler than air inside the driver's side wheel/fender well, around where the CSVT snorkle fits? I know nothing of heatshields in Hyundais. But if I pull my CSVT fenderwell snorkle to leave a big gaping hole; then fashion a heatshield out of a material which is a not a significant conductor of heat; then seal that heatshield with foam, etc against the hood, are you saying under the battery would be significantly cooler than from the wheel/fenderwell?

On the other hand, if you are only meaning to say an open element intake drawing warm underhood air is horrible for performance, that's been a given forever, there's no argument, no debate. So... how about we drop the reference to WAI from under the hood and consider the two "cool" draw locations against each other instead of against the underhood straw man. After we fast forward through Boyle's law and thermodynamic efficiency, is the one cool draw spot going to be so much cooler than the other? (And what if I'm not on a road course and my brakes are cool?)
Posted By: Goonz SVT Re: CAI - 06/19/06 10:52 PM
Originally posted by Pudmunkie:


Goonz dont go and buy another CAI just because its new!




im not, im tryin to save for morrettes
Posted By: BV1 Re: CAI - 06/20/06 03:41 AM
Originally posted by Pudmunkie:
He is not taking into account that with a heatshield you pull cool air fromt he fender, into the cool box area created by the shield. The same air a CAI would pick up.

Goonz dont go and buy another CAI just because its new!




Originally posted by PDXSVT:
Would you expect air underneath the battery to be a lot cooler than air inside the driver's side wheel/fender well, around where the CSVT snorkle fits? I know nothing of heatshields in Hyundais. But if I pull my CSVT fenderwell snorkle to leave a big gaping hole; then fashion a heatshield out of a material which is a not a significant conductor of heat; then seal that heatshield with foam, etc against the hood, are you saying under the battery would be significantly cooler than from the wheel/fenderwell?




Gentlemen... a few points. I didnt say Im going back into business and selling these things. But I appreciate the interest.

I will come up with what I think is a good design and then post how its made for you, so you can do it. I use dynomax parts usually.

As for the above quotes, I AM taking into account that the heatshield is still drawing air from the fenderwell... or else why have a heatshield?....

Also, I dont know what to expect for temperatures in the CSVT fenderwell, but I DO expect them to be lower then 1-3 degrees from the engine bay heatshield application. Brake heat is very... very... minimal compared to exhaust heat. Think of the weight of a brake rotor vs an engine block. Then think of the energy that the block produces and the % of that, that one brake rotor dissipates... very minute. Dont worry about brake rotor heat in the air. Not saying they dont get hot, just saying its not a direct heater like the engine bay.

ALSO, the big advantage from the heatshield to the true CAI is that a mandrel bent intake running to the same source of coldair as the heatshield, acts just like an exhaust header when it comes to resonance.

Basically your pulling air very sloppy from the fenderwell with a heatshield setup, you may get that air, but it will not be a free flowing as a nice mandrel bent pipe into that area, nor will it be as cool. Its all about resonance, just like an properly tuned exhaust header. When you do it right, the intake will actually resonate at your peak TQ RPM for an extra 1-2 HP.


My intake setup made an extra 8WHP vs the AEM 5WHP in the Tib. Its not huge, its just all about doing it right.

Let me see what I can come up with before you call my bluff.

Thanks,

-Steve
Posted By: jitb Re: CAI - 06/20/06 03:54 AM
whatever they are they better coem with air bypass valves..
Posted By: Goonz SVT Re: CAI - 06/20/06 05:12 AM
Originally posted by jitb:
whatever they are they better coem with air bypass valves..




mmm i love mine!
Posted By: BlackE1 Re: CAI - 06/20/06 11:22 AM
Originally posted by jitb:
whatever they are they better coem with air bypass valves..




do you plan on driving through foot deep water?
Posted By: pimpdcontour Re: CAI - 06/21/06 12:28 AM
Originally posted by Goonz SVT:
Originally posted by jitb:
whatever they are they better coem with air bypass valves..




mmm i love mine!






i need one just in case factor.
Posted By: Goonz SVT Re: CAI - 06/21/06 02:38 AM
Originally posted by BlackE1:
Originally posted by jitb:
whatever they are they better coem with air bypass valves..




do you plan on driving through foot deep water?




nothing wrong with having it..it adds a little comfort to know that even during heavy downpour, ur still safe..
Posted By: BlackE1 Re: CAI - 06/21/06 12:42 PM
I looked into getting one when I installed my CAI. It was another $50+shipping. I thought I would try it with out at first.

After the first time I drove with it in a huge down pour, I dropped the splash guard and inner fender guard and the filter was bone dry. So I didn't think I needed to spend the $50. I just know I can drive through standing water without converting to the short ram intake. But then again he contour shouldn�t be driven through standing water!

But your right it would be nice to be able to not have to worry about it.
Posted By: pimpdcontour Re: CAI - 06/21/06 08:44 PM
i have no splash guard. just open under the bumper. so i drive nice and SLOW in the rain, for the just in case factor.
Posted By: jitb Re: CAI - 06/21/06 11:41 PM
Originally posted by BlackE1:
Originally posted by jitb:
whatever they are they better coem with air bypass valves..




do you plan on driving through foot deep water?




dont matter it happens and u never know how deep those puddles are. 2 of my friends lost there motors to hydro lock, one of my budies blew a hole in his 2.4 in his neon, and another buddy blew his H22 in his hatch via hyrdolock. u never know! those things go for like 30-40$ alot cheaper than a new block!

BTW is that the cougar CAI goonz?
Posted By: Goonz SVT Re: CAI - 06/22/06 01:51 AM
Originally posted by jitb:
Originally posted by BlackE1:
Originally posted by jitb:
whatever they are they better coem with air bypass valves..




do you plan on driving through foot deep water?




dont matter it happens and u never know how deep those puddles are. 2 of my friends lost there motors to hydro lock, one of my budies blew a hole in his 2.4 in his neon, and another buddy blew his H22 in his hatch via hyrdolock. u never know! those things go for like 30-40$ alot cheaper than a new block!

BTW is that the cougar CAI goonz?




unfortunatly yes
Posted By: BlackE1 Re: CAI - 06/22/06 11:47 AM
Originally posted by Goonz SVT:

BTW is that the cougar CAI goonz?

unfortunatly yes




The GMK I got was not of good quality either. Actually had to send the first one back due to bent and dented pipes and wrong color. Got the second one back pipes were much worse and the filter was still the wrong color!!!! This all took about 8 month as well. I personally won�t do business with him ever again.
I gave up and fixed it myself, planning on getting a k and n since GMK couldn't seem to understand I didn't want blue.

it is only two pipes with two bends ( i could figure out the degrees) it probley could be made for much cheaper then it in cost. the rest is just a short ram set up.
Posted By: RRT_SVT Re: CAI - 06/22/06 07:06 PM
where i can get the cai?
Posted By: Goonz SVT Re: CAI - 06/23/06 03:40 AM
Originally posted by BlackE1:
Originally posted by Goonz SVT:

BTW is that the cougar CAI goonz?

unfortunatly yes




The GMK I got was not of good quality either. Actually had to send the first one back due to bent and dented pipes and wrong color. Got the second one back pipes were much worse and the filter was still the wrong color!!!! This all took about 8 month as well. I personally won�t do business with him ever again.
I gave up and fixed it myself, planning on getting a k and n since GMK couldn't seem to understand I didn't want blue.

it is only two pipes with two bends ( i could figure out the degrees) it probley could be made for much cheaper then it in cost. the rest is just a short ram set up.





Custom Cougars CAI wasnt really what I'd expected it to be..The piping is starting the rust and the couplings are an ugly grey color..I had to modify it alot to, i had to cut like 3" of piping from the bottom tube that holds the filter because it was too low and it was extended due to the addition of the AEM Bypass Valve..Now it sits perfect as pictured all the way above..I'm planning on taking the piping out and maybe have it powdercoated to like black with black couplings, that would look bad arse IMO..
Posted By: pimpdcontour Re: CAI - 06/23/06 04:51 PM
Originally posted by Goonz SVT:
Originally posted by BlackE1:
Originally posted by Goonz SVT:

BTW is that the cougar CAI goonz?

unfortunatly yes




The GMK I got was not of good quality either. Actually had to send the first one back due to bent and dented pipes and wrong color. Got the second one back pipes were much worse and the filter was still the wrong color!!!! This all took about 8 month as well. I personally won�t do business with him ever again.
I gave up and fixed it myself, planning on getting a k and n since GMK couldn't seem to understand I didn't want blue.

it is only two pipes with two bends ( i could figure out the degrees) it probley could be made for much cheaper then it in cost. the rest is just a short ram set up.





Custom Cougars CAI wasnt really what I'd expected it to be..The piping is starting the rust and the couplings are an ugly grey color..I had to modify it alot to, i had to cut like 3" of piping from the bottom tube that holds the filter because it was too low and it was extended due to the addition of the AEM Bypass Valve..Now it sits perfect as pictured all the way above..I'm planning on taking the piping out and maybe have it powdercoated to like black with black couplings, that would look bad arse IMO..





i am going to be getting mine power coated blue. it should look nice with my blue couplers. open to opions however. my first set of couplers was CRAP weapon r. grey super flexable CRAP.
Posted By: Goonz SVT Re: CAI - 06/23/06 05:08 PM
yea I wanted a clean look so its either chrome or gloss black
Posted By: pimpdcontour Re: CAI - 06/23/06 05:12 PM
this might be a stupid ? but will black hold heat more? that is y i was thinking about a blue. plus to match my couplers. a black pipe would look real nice though, but would it with blue couples?
Posted By: Goonz SVT Re: CAI - 06/23/06 05:16 PM
Originally posted by pimpdcontour:
this might be a stupid ? but will black hold heat more?




hmm touche salesman
Posted By: pimpdcontour Re: CAI - 06/23/06 05:24 PM
Originally posted by Goonz SVT:
Originally posted by pimpdcontour:
this might be a stupid ? but will black hold heat more?




hmm touche salesman




wtf does that mean.
Posted By: BlackE1 Re: CAI - 06/23/06 05:31 PM
Originally posted by pimpdcontour:
this might be a stupid ? but will black hold heat more? that is y i was thinking about a blue. plus to match my couplers. a black pipe would look real nice though, but would it with blue couples?




The only way I would see a certain color "holding" heat (energy) would be due to energy from a wavelength source (sun). Engine heat (energy) and sun light energy are to different types of energy.

Well what I am trying to get at is with only the engines heat (energy) I don�t think color with make a difference, the coat or paint itself might give a difference. But then again its probably so minimal that you won�t notices it.
Posted By: pimpdcontour Re: CAI - 06/23/06 05:58 PM
ok well that is good to know. might have to go black cai then. any one know where i can find black couplers?
Posted By: Pre98 Re: CAI - 06/24/06 03:23 PM
Originally posted by pimpdcontour:
ok well that is good to know. might have to go black cai then. any one know where i can find black couplers?





Any hardware store, in the plumbing section.

This thread's been an interesting read. I'd drop some serious coin into a one-piece CAI. Eaasier to mount, less couplers to bend/disconnect.

As I previously said, I would drop some serious coin into a single-piece CAI design.
Posted By: pimpdcontour Re: CAI - 06/24/06 05:17 PM
here are the ones i have got . they also make red and black.
http://www.hightempsilicone.com

Posted By: ChattavegasSE_dup1 Re: CAI - 06/25/06 12:48 AM
Originally posted by Pre98:
Originally posted by pimpdcontour:
ok well that is good to know. might have to go black cai then. any one know where i can find black couplers?





Any hardware store, in the plumbing section.

This thread's been an interesting read. I'd drop some serious coin into a one-piece CAI. Eaasier to mount, less couplers to bend/disconnect.

As I previously said, I would drop some serious coin into a single-piece CAI design.



Are you sure the plumbing couplers have a high enough heat resistance? Sure wouldn't want one burning up and getting sucked into the engine.



And single piece? Sign me up.
Posted By: The Digital Slacker Re: CAI - 06/25/06 01:46 AM
Agreed. Single peice CAI would be amazing.
Posted By: Pre98 Re: CAI - 06/25/06 03:26 PM
Originally posted by ChattavegasSE:

Are you sure the plumbing couplers have a high enough heat resistance?




Well, they aren't plastic PCV or anything you'd make a hockey net out of. Just the usual rubber ones, a little bit thicker, a bit nicer looking, more sturdy. I think the one I used on my MAF to CAI was ten bucks, and another smaller one was 6-something iirc. Pics:



Worth it imo, because the ones they come with are Uber squishy.
Posted By: ChattavegasSE_dup1 Re: CAI - 06/25/06 11:31 PM
And you havn't had any trouble from 'em? Glad to hear, blue couplings on a red pipe? Not on my car!
Posted By: Goonz SVT Re: CAI - 06/26/06 12:45 AM
Originally posted by ChattavegasSE:
And you havn't had any trouble from 'em? Glad to hear, blue couplings on a red pipe? Not on my car!


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