Zetec Final Drive - CEG Archives

Originally posted by MapOfTaziFoShoâ�??¢:
But, if you are making more power than b4 (3.0L) and you found yourself shifting into 4th gear at the end of the 1/4 then you are getting some benefit. Also when racing from a roll...the diff laucnh characteristics and the ability to hit 60mph in 2nd should be of some benefit.

You are confusing benchmarking terminology with actual real world performance.

You state that the 0-60mph may be quicker because the car can reach 60mph in 2nd with the 3.84 and stock redline (6900rpm SVT)
{insert formula} 6900rpm with 3.84 & 24.5" tire = ~61mph

However you are failing to note that acceleration in 1st and 2nd gear will be slower because the gearing is weaker. That 3 tenths of a second you save from not having to make to 2-3 shift, during that small bench marking window, is basically going to wash with the slower acceleration of the first two gears.

Also if you use 10mph increments you will note that the 4.06 gears accelerate stronger to each respective 10mph mark when you factor in the shifting. Remember even if your 0-60mph is the same with the 3.84 gears your 0-50 is slower and 0-70 is much slower. (the 2-3 shift with 3.84's is between 60 & 70mph

The 4.06's will just continue to walk its ass!)

You CAN NOT think about benchmarking times meaning a whole lot just by themselves. The placement of a shift point can significant skew those types of tests.

Racing from a roll. You still have 5% less TMF in every single gear. That means slower acceleration in each gear.

The only way a taller gear helps is if you have obscene amounts of power over a very broad powerband and can over power (literally) the losses caused by the weaker gearing. (there are formulas but I'm not typing them out) Turbo 3L's may fit that description but 300-400 wheels is really not "obscene" in my book. They do fit the very broad powerband and lower rpm powerband criteria though.

Also to add, the shift from 3rd to 4th at the end of the track is not relevant. The 3-4 shift duration does not cause any significant loss of acceleration ability in such low power applications.

Also any car trapping over about 95mph needs to shift to 4th regardless. That makes that a moot point for any car much above SVT levels.

Originally posted by MapOfTaziFoShoâ�??¢:
But, if you are making more power than b4 (3.0L) and you found yourself shifting into 4th gear at the end of the 1/4 then you are getting some benefit.

If you do not shift into 4th in the 1/4 with a V6 in these cars then you have a very slow car! lol...Hell, I almost shift into 4th in the 1/8 mile with my Cougar and a 75 shot. If I had some traction in the first two gears I prolly would have to shift into 4th, but my cheap arse not buying some drag radials...that's a different story.

Originally posted by DemonSVT:

The only way a taller gear helps is if you have obscene amounts of power over a very broad powerband and can over power (literally) the losses caused by the weaker gearing. (there are formulas but I'm not typing them out) Turbo 3L's may fit that description but 300-400 wheels is really not "obscene" in my book. They do fit the very broad powerband and lower rpm powerband criteria though.

Do you think a roots style supercharger falls into this category? Something like the Eaton m90?

I did some research and saw that Rick as a zetec FD on his SC 3l...would that be obscene enough?

Originally posted by MapOfTaziFoShoâ�??¢:
I did some research and saw that Rick as a zetec FD on his SC 3l...would that be obscene enough?

By Greg's definition, of which I agree, no. 300-400 in today's world, realistically (sp?) isn't 'obscene'. In our world, although quite impressive, isn't 'obscene' in the grand scheme of things.

Originally posted by RTStabler51:

Originally posted by MapOfTaziFoShoâ�??¢:
I did some research and saw that Rick as a zetec FD on his SC 3l...would that be obscene enough?

By Greg's definition, of which I agree, no. 300-400 in today's world, realistically (sp?) isn't 'obscene'. In our world, although quite impressive, isn't 'obscene' in the grand scheme of things.

This is true. When you have numerous 500+whp cars rolling around, 300-400 doesn't sound all that big. Some of the high powered guys end up going to low numbered ratios when over 700rwhp.

OT: What are you going to replace the Lightning with?

Originally posted by JCSVT:

OT: What are you going to replace the Lightning with?

It was replaced with a 05 Liberty Limited CRD. I now drive a 'chick' car as I got 'demoted' to the g/f's 02 Celica until I can pay off some debt. The Lightning will be replaced with 1) another Lightning or 2) a 02/03 Harley Davidson F-150

Originally posted by RTStabler51:

Originally posted by JCSVT:

OT: What are you going to replace the Lightning with?

The Lightning will be replaced with a 02/03 Harley Davidson F-150

...i have never liked the idea of having a single cab truck

Originally posted by 99cougar:

Originally posted by RTStabler51:

Originally posted by JCSVT:

OT: What are you going to replace the Lightning with?

The Lightning will be replaced with a 02/03 Harley Davidson F-150

...i have never liked the idea of having a single cab truck

There are benes to it. And I highly doubt a HD handles as 'good' as a Lightning.

Originally posted by RTStabler51:

Originally posted by MapOfTaziFoShoâ�??¢:
I did some research and saw that Rick as a zetec FD on his SC 3l...would that be obscene enough?

By Greg's definition, of which I agree, no. 300-400 in today's world, realistically (sp?) isn't 'obscene'. In our world, although quite impressive, isn't 'obscene' in the grand scheme of things.

Agreed. His peak HP numbers are great but the torque in the low rpm range are typical of a centrifugal blower...typically low.

I for one don't really think the peak horsepower is the way to evaluate this need. It is the peak torque available in generally the lower rpm range of first gear that decides it.
I only know of one or two cars that fit this category. Me, Beyondloaded SE, Suneils car and probably some sleepers out there. The Turbo 3L torque at only 8-10 psi is well over 300-350 ft-lbs in the 3000-4000 rpm range depending on cams, turbo and compression. Very hard to keep front wheels sticking the ground with these cars.

It is the huge torque in lower rpm ranges and poor traction that would legitimize the zetec FD.
I've considered it over and over on my car but it really is a traction issue that I would rather solve with MORE traction rather than change the gearing to compensate for [censored] traction.
You NEVER see racers changing gear ratios to taller final drives unless they race at the bonneville salt flats or something like that. Everyone Else is looking for better acceleration or to match the rpm range in a certain gear with a certain style of racing...enter the Capaldi gear.

Originally posted by warmonger:
You NEVER see racers changing gear ratios to taller final drives unless they race at the bonneville salt flats or something like that. Everyone Else is looking for better acceleration or to match the rpm range in a certain gear with a certain style of racing...enter the Capaldi gear.

Speaking of getting shorter gearing...does anyone still make the 4.5 final drive? or was it the Capaldi's that made it? lol Do they still make it?

Nevermind...found it.

Eh, guess I'll be enjoying the extra gas mileage then. Thanks for the info guys.

I'm glad this was posted because I thought about changing mine to zetec gear to maybe get some power to the ground slower.
Oh you hurt my feeling warmonger ..........left me out....

of the Hp KINGS. I do have the record time .....

I finally got my SVT running right last night. It has the zetec final drive. I had it installed because I was S/C'd at the time, then went turbo. Now being all motor the car really seems to stop pulling around 6Krpm with the zetec final drive, I do have a full 3" exhaust which isn't helping either, and slightly lower compression than stock. All that adds up to the most expensive and slowest contour in human history. I do wish I had the stock final drive to say the least. I'm just happy to have it running good again.

Originally posted by BStoneMega:
I finally got my SVT running right last night. It has the zetec final drive. I had it installed because I was S/C'd at the time, then went turbo. Now being all motor the car really seems to stop pulling around 6Krpm with the zetec final drive, I do have a full 3" exhaust which isn't helping either, and slightly lower compression than stock. All that adds up to the most expensive and slowest contour in human history. I do wish I had the stock final drive to say the least. I'm just happy to have it running good again.

What what is your c/r? You prob have the worst possible combination at the moment. Is you 3" exhaust a tru bendz?

I have 9.5:1 compression. The only way my setup could be worse is if I had the pistons made with even lower compression. I need to get at least a stock exhaust or something. I have the stock exhaust manifolds ported out, the precats were cut off and are now 3" pipes ovaled out mating to a custom made 3" y-pipe, custom 3" back to the rear y with 2.5" to two race series magnaflow cans.
Last night I took the stock maf electronics out of the housing and put it in a housing that came from a Grand Marquis 4.6L. The sampling area is the same exactly but the diameter has to be at least 75mm, maybe 80mm. I don't know if it helped performance but the butt dyno didn't feel any losses. I am probably going to sell the car to buy my lady a new car but I want to drive it for a bit at least.

Originally posted by BurritaSVT:
I'm glad this was posted because I thought about changing mine to zetec gear to maybe get some power to the ground slower.
Oh you hurt my feeling warmonger ..........left me out.... of the Hp KINGS. I do have the record time .....

Yeah but with busted pistons...that's gonna be hard to top again!
Besides, I forgot about your time being better than mine....and Demon is always reminding me so...

Originally posted by warmonger:
I forgot about your time being better than mine....and Demon is always reminding me so...

Only one way to make it stop...

lol

Originally posted by 99cougar:

Originally posted by warmonger:
I forgot about your time being better than mine....and Demon is always reminding me so...

Only one way to make it stop... lol

What's that? Get me to drive his car.

Originally posted by DemonSVT:

Originally posted by 99cougar:

Originally posted by warmonger:
I forgot about your time being better than mine....and Demon is always reminding me so...

Only one way to make it stop... lol

What's that? Get me to drive his car.

LMAO...good one there!

Where are those smilies that have it flipping the bird when you need one.