I need a set of Headers for cheap!

ok now whats the differance between weapon r headers and msds headers, cause the msds ones are like $680.00

http://www.contour.org/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=perf&Number=909555&page=1&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=2&fpart=1

yeah its not even letting me go to custom cugars website

The difference? Quality, fitment; headaches

msds headers.. are in my future. When? I don't know

Originally posted by Pre98:
The difference? Quality, fitment; headaches

msds headers.. are in my future. When? I don't know

And you know this how?

Yeah...exactly. Please don't go there. when I post the pics of the headers on Bk's motor that I'm building you can all STFU!

Originally posted by Stazi:

And you know this how?

Yeah...exactly. Please don't go there. when I post the pics of the headers on Bk's motor that I'm building you can all STFU!

I'll still talk sh!t about Weapon-ARRRGGHHHHH MATEY!!! It's in my nature

Mark

wtf was that for, Stazi? My information came from searching CEG

Apparently, there is a ton of missinformation posts regarding Weapon R Headers.

If the install on your project car has gone well, then Weapon R headers could be an inexpensive alternative for me. I don't know why you had to go out and blast me like that, though. Bad day or something?

Originally posted by Stazi:

Originally posted by Pre98:
The difference? Quality, fitment; headaches

msds headers.. are in my future. When? I don't know

And you know this how?

Yeah...exactly. Please don't go there. when I post the pics of the headers on Bk's motor that I'm building you can all STFU!

That BK guy, don't hardly post here on CEG because of work and he's still stirring up the sh!t

Well maybe you need to do a little more research then.

Start by reading the Recent thread on Weapon R headers install. I can back Stazi's words up as I have a set of these in my garage and saw them at his house previously.

For $375 shipped, with a much better y-pipe than MSDS and in all Stainless Steel, your not going to find a better deal on headers ....

I haven't really had time to update my info for these headers yet. (given I've been working on other things for the car instead)

Well it's nice to see these headers following through. I look forward to PICS!

Originally posted by Stazi:

Originally posted by Pre98:
The difference? Quality, fitment; headaches

msds headers.. are in my future. When? I don't know

And you know this how?

Yeah...exactly. Please don't go there. when I post the pics of the headers on Bk's motor that I'm building you can all STFU!

Again Stazi is the only individual who has handled MSDS and Weapon R at the same time. No one other than him can come close to a claim of how the headers compair other than the companies who produced the headers themselves. The claims i read in the past, are word of mouth from what previous people have stated. Of course now there is a redesign of theese headers, stay tuned to see if they are worth it. Till then stop talking poorley on a set of headers that havn't been tested since redesign.

Sorry Pre98. I've just about hadn't with people jumping on the "headers" bang wagon with little to no info. So I jumped when I saw another slam post. I'm one for finding deals, and putting them forward to the CEG and when people jump all over something without fully knowing what they're talking about it frustrates me.

I posted pics shoeing the comparisons in this forum - everyone else is going of 3rd hand, or more, info.

I plan on putting BK's headers on this weekend, so I'll snap pics at that time, and then more once the whole thing is done.

Thanks for the info, Stazi. Don't worry about the bad communication

It happens, eh? At the price the headers are, I think I'm going to end my social life for a few weeks and save on the side for them

Originally posted by akrump47:
For $375 shipped, with a much better y-pipe than MSDS and in all Stainless Steel, your not going to find a better deal on headers ....

I did...

$362 shipped

I don't know anything about that e-company. Anybody done business with them??

I've still been going on the "old" info, too. I've tended to ignore "new" Weapon-R threads because I figured they were just more rehash. My mistake, I guess.

Good to hear that we have "real" options.

They are a very real option. I just finished up installing them on my car and will back up every good thing Stazi has said about them. Excellent build quality and absolutely no fitment issues(other than the known egr bung).

Originally posted by Jason43:
They are a very real option. I just finished up installing them on my car and will back up every good thing Stazi has said about them. Excellent build quality and absolutely no fitment issues(other than the known egr bung).

Do you have any pics or additional info on the parts you used for the EGR. Ive heard Stazi say of using heater flexpipe, but I am not sure of how it attaches. Thanks.
-tropictour

Originally posted by Stazi:

I plan on putting BK's headers on this weekend, so I'll snap pics at that time, and then more once the whole thing is done.

WHOO HOO!!!! I get to see my baby again!!!!

Looks like Weapon R sales will be competing well against msds headers..

Fellas, who cares about the name! It'll be under the car anyways!!

I will seriously invest in these headers after I recover from my near debt from SZ spending

Originally posted by tropictour:

Originally posted by Jason43:
They are a very real option. I just finished up installing them on my car and will back up every good thing Stazi has said about them. Excellent build quality and absolutely no fitment issues(other than the known egr bung).

Do you have any pics or additional info on the parts you used for the EGR. Ive heard Stazi say of using heater flexpipe, but I am not sure of how it attaches. Thanks.
-tropictour

Unfortunely, I didn't take any pics. I was too busy cursing the team of engineers that designed our engine bay.

For the EGR, I used a brass swell fitting from the plumbing section of Home Depot(as recomended by MKracing), 5/8" IIRC. I cut the EGR pipe in the straight section in the middle and the fitting worked perfectly.

Comparison pix about 2/3 down the page. These are my MSDS and Bk4293's Weapon R headers (I guess). Pix by Stazi.

Originally posted by wa2tuff:
Comparison pix about 2/3 down the page. These are my MSDS and Bk4293's Weapon R headers (I guess). Pix by Stazi.

Oh....So you're the guy that helped start this little war we've got going on here.....

Guys forgive me if this is a silly question. I have a '96 Mondeo V6 which has two O2 sensors in the pre cat. I replaced the cat and Y pipe with this as my old cat dies :-

http://www.spmotorsports.com/ATCcontour_exhaust_ypipes.html

Will these Weapon R headers fit my car? I read somewhere that they have a 3 bolt flange for the cat but i don't have the standard cat any more-does that mean these won't just bolt on? Whats the deal with the EGR? A friend of mine fitted MSDS headers and AFAIK he used his old cat (two bolt flange) and had no trouble with the EGR pipe??Thanks for any help.

The weapon R's have their own y-pipe which I think is the only one you can use as they have slightly different outlet anngles than the stock headers and MSDS's. But that's OK as there y-pipe is great anyway.

You could sell the y-pipe you have and use the full WR setup.

The fact you have OBD1 can be addressed by blocking off the lower two O2 ports with short bolts. The EGR-pipe mod is an easy fix for anyone with mechanical know-how

OK i've just leafed through a huuuuuge thread on this and answered one question-looking at the opictures it seems you MUST use the Y pipe that comes with the headers and hence you need the correct OE cat? I suppose that's no big issue. But whats the deal with the EGR? If the EGR is different on some cars can we not get the correct EGR pipe from Ford?(as all the UIM's are the same right?!)

Originally posted by Stazi:
The weapon R's have their own y-pipe which I think is the only one you can use as they have slightly different outlet anngles than the stock headers and MSDS's. But that's OK as there y-pipe is great anyway.

You could sell the y-pipe you have and use the full WR setup.

The fact you have OBD1 can be addressed by blocking off the lower two O2 ports with short bolts. The EGR-pipe mod is an easy fix for anyone with mechanical know-how

Thanks for that. so,i would need an OE cat-any suppliers you can suggest for a 3 bolt flange version for this? I'm still struggling to understand the EGR issue,did they balls up when fabricating these or something? Surely if the EGR pipe design was changed by Ford on later cars we could just get the EGR pipe from them?

(My logic being that the EGR location on the UIM to my knowledge has not changed?) Many thanks for your input-you seem to be the man on these!!!

The EGR is different on the newer Cougars, which these were initially designed for. It's not a balls up.

I would think you could adapt the stock cat flage to fit the the bolt flange easilly.

I see,thanks. But are the UIM's where the EGR is taken off the same?(My point being that on my car the pipe from the EGR valve on the UIM that goes to the rear pre cat can be unbolted and replaced,if that's the only difference this must be a Ford part??) I don't have the stock cat any more-just the bat one with high flow cat so no flanges at all

Originally posted by Mondeo V6:
Guys forgive me if this is a silly question. I have a '96 Mondeo V6 which has two O2 sensors in the pre cat. I replaced the cat and Y pipe with this as my old cat dies :-

http://www.spmotorsports.com/ATCcontour_exhaust_ypipes.html

Will these Weapon R headers fit my car? I read somewhere that they have a 3 bolt flange for the cat but i don't have the standard cat any more-does that mean these won't just bolt on? Whats the deal with the EGR? A friend of mine fitted MSDS headers and AFAIK he used his old cat (two bolt flange) and had no trouble with the EGR pipe??Thanks for any help.

If you're using the SPmotorsports Y & cat, you should be able to use the headers & just sell the WR Y pipe or put it in mothballs. Your only issue will be the EGR tube, which is easily remedied.

Originally posted by MysTour man!:

Originally posted by Mondeo V6:
Guys forgive me if this is a silly question. I have a '96 Mondeo V6 which has two O2 sensors in the pre cat. I replaced the cat and Y pipe with this as my old cat dies :-

http://www.spmotorsports.com/ATCcontour_exhaust_ypipes.html

Will these Weapon R headers fit my car? I read somewhere that they have a 3 bolt flange for the cat but i don't have the standard cat any more-does that mean these won't just bolt on? Whats the deal with the EGR? A friend of mine fitted MSDS headers and AFAIK he used his old cat (two bolt flange) and had no trouble with the EGR pipe??Thanks for any help.

If you're using the SPmotorsports Y & cat, you should be able to use the headers & just sell the WR Y pipe or put it in mothballs. Your only issue will be the EGR tube, which is easily remedied.

Dude, don't post what you don't know about!

The Weapon R headers need you to use the Weapon R y-pipe.

Mondeo-dude, I am not sure of how the EGR valve is located on the UIM. You're stressing out too much and me at the same time.

Originally posted by Stazi:

Originally posted by MysTour man!:

Originally posted by Mondeo V6:
Guys forgive me if this is a silly question. I have a '96 Mondeo V6 which has two O2 sensors in the pre cat. I replaced the cat and Y pipe with this as my old cat dies :-

http://www.spmotorsports.com/ATCcontour_exhaust_ypipes.html

Will these Weapon R headers fit my car? I read somewhere that they have a 3 bolt flange for the cat but i don't have the standard cat any more-does that mean these won't just bolt on? Whats the deal with the EGR? A friend of mine fitted MSDS headers and AFAIK he used his old cat (two bolt flange) and had no trouble with the EGR pipe??Thanks for any help.

If you're using the SPmotorsports Y & cat, you should be able to use the headers & just sell the WR Y pipe or put it in mothballs. Your only issue will be the EGR tube, which is easily remedied.

Dude, don't post what you don't know about!

The Weapon R headers need you to use the Weapon R y-pipe.

Mondeo-dude, I am not sure of how the EGR valve is located on the UIM. You're stressing out too much and me at the same time.

Go and have a Fosters and come back later

I would, but I don't drink goat urine. I'll take a Tennants Extra instead - cheers!

Nonetheless, what you should understand from all this is:
A) The WR header WILL fit all CDW-27 based platforms (Contour, Mytique, Cougar, Mondeo)
B) The EGR bung was made to suit the last years of the cougar, which apparently have a different routing to the headers.
C) Soemone already posted that the fix was easy suing a double compression type brass fiting - i.e. cut and reconnect
D)The WR header have a slight diffenrence in how the rear header exits, so you won't get any other y-pipe other than the WR headers to line up right
E) The WR y-pipe is a good design, better than the MSDS IMHO as it is smoother (read: no crapola V-bend like the MSDS)
F) Even thought though the y-pipe has a 3-bolt flange any decent exhaust shop coul mod the 2-bolt flange or swap it to one that would fit the 3-bolt flange.

mmm,Tennants Extra

Not quite as good as Stella. just waiting for a delivery price. EGR sounds easy to sort-i modded an SVT LIM for vac. operation without any problems,can't see a pipe causing grief

Guess the only issue will be fitting the darn things-doable on a driveway??

Ive' done teo sets in my driveway now

Ok i'm still waiting for shipping prices.Now another spanner in the works

I'm being told that fitting headers gives no increase in performance over stock manifolds and as the O2 sensor is only in the flow of one cylinder(or two counting both O2's from both banks

)) the cars fueling will be off

Things are never easy are they.............

Originally posted by Mondeo V6:
Ok i'm still waiting for shipping prices.Now another spanner in the works I'm being told that fitting headers gives no increase in performance over stock manifolds and as the O2 sensor is only in the flow of one cylinder(or two counting both O2's from both banks )) the cars fueling will be off Things are never easy are they.............

Whoever said that is an assclown tell them to STFU!

Originally posted by Mondeo V6:
I'm being told that fitting headers gives no increase in performance over stock manifolds and as the O2 sensor is only in the flow of one cylinder

Who are you getting advice from? Wouldn't be anyone on here or on MEG I assure you. Stop getting advice from your mom.

Originally posted by todras:

Originally posted by Mondeo V6:
I'm being told that fitting headers gives no increase in performance over stock manifolds and as the O2 sensor is only in the flow of one cylinder

Who are you getting advice from? Wouldn't be anyone on here or on MEG I assure you. Stop getting advice from your mom.

lol,my mum wouldn't know what an O2 sensor is. I'm not starting a war here but the info came from FCO. Someone who has done lots of work on these cars and should know! This is the problem with forums-conflicting info. My thinking is thus:-

(1)The o2 sensor only needs a sample of the gases so should be OK with flow from one pipe??
(2) the stock manifold sure looks ugly and certainly doesn't look like it was made fopr performance! Surely there are some gains to be made here.

I really don't want to spend $$$$ importing a set of these(prob. end up costing double after import duty and tax,not to mention shipping

)for it to be a waste of time!!!

Been there, done that. If I could give you my .02, it's not worth it. We realized absolutely no gains switching from manifolds to headers. As a matter of fact, we encountered problems with the O2's on everyone I've seen. The O2 sensor placement (or lack thereof) is placed in a poor spot on the MSDS and Weapon R which does not allow the full flow of all 3 cylinders across it (only 1 cylinder). This causes low speed richness concerns and cold starting problems. I experienced it, others have and we've all ditched ours and sold them.

This is my word, it should be taken as an opinion from someone who has gone through the installation and ran it on a 3.0L. I've been party to a 2.5L Cougar installation as well and the same issues were present on it as well. I myself wouldn't recommend it.

Is the info i got. I'm just trying to get as much info as possible so please keep it nice

I don't buy it - seeing as each bank is controlled by one O2 sensor anyway.

If you wanted to be real picky about it. You could extend the O2 sensor to the lower bung so it sample all cylinders

Then put the bottom one up top with MIL's attached.

But I guess the geniuses at FCO didn't think about doing that.

Originally posted by Stazi:
Dude, don't post what you don't know about!

The Weapon R headers need you to use the Weapon R y-pipe.

I had a WR Y on my Contour with stock manifolds. If there is a significant difference, please explain how I accomplished this.

At any rate, I posted based on my own real world experience. Sorry if that doesn't match up with your version of reality.

The Y is obviously re-designed to ditch the horrid V bend, so perhaps that is at least PART of the difference. My Y is over a year old & may either have been modified without my knowledge as I got it used, or perhaps the WR QC efforts were not up to snuff. Fact remains, it fit my stock manifolds for whatever reason.

Look at the last pics I took. You can see the WR rear header is shorter. You MAY be able to crank anothe ry-pipe to fit by tightening the hell out of the bolts, but then again they may have shanged something there:

Where did you get you WR y-pipe from?

I got it from a one of the heavy hitters on fastcougar.com - DOM, I think... I'll check my home computer & find out for sure.

You do have to use the WR y-pipe(at least on my set I did). I was going to keep the BAT y-pipe, but it would not bolt up. It was off by about 1/4 of an inch. I don't know if this just something they did when they revised them, but the manifolds do come out at a slightly different angle.

BTW, I had to redo a few things and pull out the EGR tube. I took a picture of it and will post it in a few minutes. That should give you guys an idea of what needs to be done to make the EGR work.

Heres the EGR tube with the 5/8" compression fitting from hope depot:

Definately not something to get worked up about. It was about 2 minutes work with a pipe cutter.

Originally posted by Stazi:
You could extend the O2 sensor to the lower bung so it sample all cylinders

I think this is what I'm going to do as it makes sense to get all of the cylinders exhaust passing over the O2 and not just the one cylinders (just in case that 1 cylinder is off for some reason).

Anyone know where I can pick up a foot long O2 extension for each bung? Do they even make these things?

I'll end up plugging the upper bungs with plugs or old O2 sensors. The SCT programmer up here at steeda.ca said he normally turns off the back O2's anyway so I shouldn't even need MIL's.

... found some extensions ...

http://www.rpmoutlet.com/gmo2s.htm

FYI The MSDS headers share the same "flaw" but no one with MSDS has complained about this sampling problem tthat I know of.

Just fitted a set on akrump47's SVT here is a pic of the EGR pipe modified to make the pipe reach the connection on the header. Basically it just lengthens the pipe enough to make it reach. a 5/8" Brass double ended compression fitting is what I use - piece of piss to do.

way to revive a 7 month old thread stazi...

Well I completedit yesterday and you ALWAYS get people crying "How do you make this work?" Can't have TMI on this subject.

what happened to using the soldered fitting?!

liar!

Originally posted by svt4stv:
what happened to using the soldered fitting?! liar!

Soldered...melted much!

Originally posted by svt4stv:
what happened to using the soldered fitting?! liar!

Both work - this one is a better option.

Originally posted by Stazi:

Originally posted by svt4stv:
what happened to using the soldered fitting?! liar!

Both work - this one is a better option.

[teenage girl voice] what ever! [/teenage girl voice]