Oil Starvation Question

The oil pressure light will come on for a split second, but by the time you see that its too late. From what i've read/understand it is more of a problem on long, right hand turns. Like a long on-ramp...

As preventative maintenance, some people run 6-6.5 quarts of oil as opposed to ford's reccomended 5.5 quarts.

Personally, I run 6 quarts in my car, but am paranoid about getting on it in the tight right hand turns... Although the sharp, 90 degree turns and such I still have fun in...

Originally posted by 99Mystique ATX:

As preventative maintenance, some people run 6-6.5 quarts of oil as opposed to ford's reccomended 5.5 quarts.

Beware though if you overfill the oil can foam.

Originally posted by giddyup306:

Beware though if you overfill the oil can foam.

Provided "of course" if the oil and the crankshaft meet. (i.e. aeration)

Which in our case does not happen with 6.5qts. Also to help with any possible upward oil movement & crank drainage there is a very nice windage tray/scraper used on the Duratec engine. (even upgraded in 2001 - YL8E revision)

So If I get an accusump, I wouldn't ever have to worry about the dreaded right hand turns?

My buddy blew his '98 due to this problem, and I definitely want mine permanently fixed. (I have been running 6.5 quarts, but would like something more "for sure")

yes, accusump is your friend

And here's a good place to install it

Is a 1.5qt enough for our engine? Or should I get bigger?

Originally posted by 95Sleeper:
Is a 1.5qt enough for our engine? Or should I get bigger?

How about a 1 Quart one they sell from the BAT Catalog? Would everything be included in that kit as well? it looks like it by comparing their description to others' i have read. Which size would you guys recommend if this isn't big enough?

Originally posted by 99Mystique ATX:
The oil pressure light will come on for a split second, but by the time you see that its too late. From what i've read/understand it is more of a problem on long, right hand turns. Like a long on-ramp...

hmm what happends after the light turns on?

Pope, thanks to the link for that install. Nice job by the way. I'm going to mount mine in the same location you chose, and run the hose the same way as well. My only problem now is finding out where exactly this is

Do you have any pics that show what the oil pressure sensor looks like? (Or could you give me a rough description?) I think I am also going to get an angle fitting and go with the regular hole route.

I am interested to know what you think about the 1qt, 1.5qt, 2qt question as well.

Thanks in advance

Originally posted by Dakmis:

Originally posted by 99Mystique ATX:
The oil pressure light will come on for a split second, but by the time you see that its too late. From what i've read/understand it is more of a problem on long, right hand turns. Like a long on-ramp...

hmm what happends after the light turns on?

Your last rod bearing smokes itself.

Originally posted by 95Sleeper:

Your last rod bearing smokes itself.

Fun Stuff

Originally posted by Redlineracer12:

Originally posted by 95Sleeper:

Your last rod bearing smokes itself.

Fun Stuff

Yeah, tell me about it. I've been there, twice. Now I know: don't buy engines from crappy junkyards, and take care of your baby's oil!

Doesn't 6.5qts put excessive pressure on the seals and rings?

Originally posted by durateX:
Doesn't 6.5qts put excessive pressure on the seals and rings?

Volume has nothing to do with pressure in a car oil system. Pressure is controlled by the pump, we are just changing the amount of extra oil sitting in the pan. The only thing you can run into is the crank hitting the oil, and that doesn't happen at 6.5 qts.

This is on the front of the motor, kinda above/behind the A/C pump.

the stock sender is has a black plastic cap on it and a stud sticking out of it to which a single wire attaches. The easiest access is going to be to remove the belt, then the three bolts that hold the A/C pump in place, and then tie the pump out of the way so you can get access from below.

What you see in the picture is mine accessed from the top, but the heads were not on the motor at the time either.

If I remember corrctly Accusump makes accumulators in 1, 2, and 3 quart sizes, Moroso does 1.5 or 3 quart. I went with the 1.5 Moroso. My reasons follow:

1. Moroso are more widely availiable (Summit, Jegs, a local shop, etc...) (in my experience)
2. I had discounts through Summit, due to recent other purchases.
3. Even WITHOUT discounts, the Moroso and needed parts (through Summit) were close to the same price as the Accusump kit (through BAT), and the Moroso is .5qt larger.

I have my complete price break down (before discounts)in a later post further down the thread I link to you previously.

Originally posted by 95Sleeper:
Volume has nothing to do with pressure in a car oil system. Pressure is controlled by the pump

Exactly.

~~~

Also to answer the next possible question oil aeration is not an issue with 6.5 qts. (see above post)

Originally posted by DemonSVT:

Originally posted by 95Sleeper:
Volume has nothing to do with pressure in a car oil system. Pressure is controlled by the pump

Exactly.

~~~

Also to answer the next possible question oil aeration is not an issue with 6.5 qts. (see above post)

Yes and No on that one guys. If you have no volume of oil to pump..... the pump will cavitate and you'll have NO FLOW! Pressure is not controlled by the pump. Pressure is created by resistance to flow. Pumps pump oil NOT pressure. Flow makes it go!!Sorry guys hydraulics 101 just had to add that.

Originally posted by Thinkmoto:
Pressure is created by resistance to flow. Pumps pump oil NOT pressure.

thats the way i was taught.

is that accusump mounted where the cabin air filter goes?

My response was to the fact that the extra .2 to .7 quarts of oil "volume" would have no effect on "over-pressurizing" seals and gaskets.

The oil pump moves the oil and the extra volume in the pan does not change the "pressure" of the oil pump.

Changing oil viscosity was never brought up nor was physically running out of oil.

Originally posted by DemonSVT:
oil aeration is not an issue with 6.5 qts.

Just out of curiosity at what point does it become an issue? Somewhere before 7 qts?

Is there a reason why no one seems to use the sandwich adapter for the accusump? Is it because you have the SVT oil cooler is there? I was thinking about just putting a sandwich adapter on there and teeing it to a cooler and an accusump.

Originally posted by hetfield:
Just out of curiosity at what point does it become an issue? Somewhere before 7 qts?

With the windage tray the oil level would have to rise above the tray. That would take over 7 qts of oil remaining in the pan itself.

The issue would be low rpm and cornering once you started seriously raising the oil level. When the engine is at moderate rpm level or higher the oil pan level is significantly lower then the windage tray. At high rpm it is dangerously bordering on empty if the cold oil level is less then 6 qts.

Originally posted by hmouta:
is that accusump mounted where the cabin air filter goes?

Yes

Originally posted by ottawanker:
Is there a reason why no one seems to use the sandwich adapter for the accusump? Is it because you have the SVT oil cooler is there? I was thinking about just putting a sandwich adapter on there and teeing it to a cooler and an accusump.

Exactly correct on why the sandwich adapter is infrequently used. Adding the sandwich adapter with the SVT oil cooler creates space issues for the filter.

Originally posted by DemonSVT:
At high rpm it is dangerously bordering on empty if the cold oil level is less then 6 qts.

Someone along time ago tested this on a dyno. I dont remeber how and i cant remeber who it was. Im sure this is what your refering to. It was years ago. But it was posted.
iirc there was less than .5 quart in the pan at anything above 6k
Thats kinda scary.

Originally posted by DemonSVT:
My response was to the fact that the extra .2 to .7 quarts of oil "volume" would have no effect on "over-pressurizing" seals and gaskets.

The oil pump moves the oil and the extra volume in the pan does not change the "pressure" of the oil pump.

Changing oil viscosity was never brought up nor was physically running out of oil.

I know Greg I was just being a little anal on my response. And whenever I can give you a hard time I try to

et tu?

Originally posted by dubkatz:

Originally posted by DemonSVT:
At high rpm it is dangerously bordering on empty if the cold oil level is less then 6 qts.

Someone along time ago tested this on a dyno. I dont remeber how and i cant remeber who it was. Im sure this is what your refering to. It was years ago. But it was posted.
iirc there was less than .5 quart in the pan at anything above 6k
Thats kinda scary.

IIRC, it was Roush Racing- when they were testing the Duratec for possible future applications.

Also IIRC, Saleen pulled out on their Contour project because they kept on blowing up motors.

You'd probably have to check the archives to get the original threads.

Originally posted by Pope:
If I remember corrctly Accusump makes accumulators in 1, 2, and 3 quart sizes, Moroso does 1.5 or 3 quart. I went with the 1.5 Moroso. My reasons follow:

1. Moroso are more widely availiable (Summit, Jegs, a local shop, etc...) (in my experience)
2. I had discounts through Summit, due to recent other purchases.
3. Even WITHOUT discounts, the Moroso and needed parts (through Summit) were close to the same price as the Accusump kit (through BAT), and the Moroso is .5qt larger.

Anyone else have opinions on best size to use? Would the 1 quart Accusump fit where pope mounted his? I would assume so being that it is only smaller... I think

Moroso's accumulators are the same diameter, volume only varies due to length. If I remember correctly, the Accusump's are almost the same diameter as the Moroso, just different lengths for the different volumes.

Supposedly any size all the way up to the 3qt will fit up there, but I know the curvature of the vent area makes the 1.5qt a tight fit to get on the mounts, so when the lenght is doubled I can only imagine that a custom mount would be needed.

Any size you choose should be usable in this spot, some will just be easier to mount.