weapon r headers install

Use your stock Y if it will fit. DEFINATELY the best option for a Y - especially if it has been modded.

I can tell you now that the y-collector on the y-pipe they supply looks better than any modded y-pipe I've seen. Like I said I have picturs to show this. It's well thought out.

I remember reading somewhere that WR revised their headers fairly early on. The early sets were suposed to be the ones that had most of the issues(ie easily bent). That also seems to be what everyones bad opinions are based on. I've never read a post in recent years on any of the contour/cougar boards from someone that was unhappy with them.
I'd like to see close up pictures of them, since I have actually been considering a set. Try photobucket.com to host the pictures. If you dont want to create an account, I'll host them.

hi, Im still a little confused from the emails. My csvt is the early 2 bolt flange type. So are you guys telling me I can bolt to the 3 bolt flange on the new weapon r headers im getting? If I cant how do I do it?

How about I host the pics Staz?

Shoot 'em to my E-mail.

PM sent

Shoot them to my E-mail or just upload them to my Fototime account

I would like to add that I ordered mine from http://www.customcougar.com and they were on backorder for awhile. They might have been re-designing them again, and if not I'm aloowed to dream arent I?

Originally posted by baggsend:
hi, Im still a little confused from the emails. My csvt is the early 2 bolt flange type. So are you guys telling me I can bolt to the 3 bolt flange on the new weapon r headers im getting? If I cant how do I do it?

OK the y-pipe like i posted earlier is a 3 bolt flange that connects to the cat. Now 2000 contours and some automatic contours have the 3 bolt, since you don't have either one of those years or transmission u have a 2 bolt style. SO you will need to get a 2 bolt flange take the y-pipe to and exhaust shop have them cut the 3-bolt off andweld you on a 2 bolt, problem solved.

Now the only problem is making the egr connect to the header itself. Now i am hoping with stazi doing an install on this car, hopefully he will come up with a better connection than i thought of in my last post.

Which is get a longer conection by welding a longer tube and a new compression fitting, or just get 2 fittings and mate them togehter creating a longer egr??

Originally posted by baggsend:
hi, Im still a little confused from the emails. My csvt is the early 2 bolt flange type. So are you guys telling me I can bolt to the 3 bolt flange on the new weapon r headers im getting? If I cant how do I do it?

If you have the 2 bolt flange just before the main cat, your best bet is to optimize your stock Y, hands down. If you really feel the need, you can get a new flange welded onto the WR Y & add a rear bank O2 bung, but if you're gonna have to mod anyway, spend the money where you'll get the most benefit - Modded stock Y.

I guess I'm alittle confused too. From what I've read here and numerous other posts, weapon r's don't seem to be the right (preferred) choice. My MSDS's are going on tomorrow so personally I don't care but I'm wondering about this apparent change of heart.

If these are revised versions with thicker stainless, I might have to change over to them *IF* my ceramic coated MSDS's ever fail.

I will be putting them through a good test, and for the price the Weapon R headers are...I'm not too worried about cooking them after all.

MSDS is DEFINATELY a better choice. Fitment, warranty, gaskets, MILs, & hardware are just a few things that you don't get with WRs. WRs are a viable choice for those on a budget, but if you have a few extra $, the MSDS are gonna save you some headaches & heartbreak. Well worth it if a header ever cracks, or just to avoid having to deal with fitting the darn things.

MSDS are still the best.

Personally I'd rather have a heavier gauge stainless header over coated mild steel like I have. I am also running a turbo off of my MSDS and have modified them, so warranty isn't an issue in my case.

Except Weapons-Rice's copy-cat headers are thinner gauge then MSDS headers. Also with SS being more brittle that is a bad combination for overall longevity or for a turbo project like you mentioned.

I have had the MSDS headers for over 4 years and they've been partially wrapped (from collector's on) for over 2 years and they look as good now as the day I bought them. I am very happy with them.

Are the Weapon R's 321 or 304L SS? If they're 304L, then I'd agree about wanting the coated mild steel over them.

Hell it's probably not even as good as 304L.

They list it as 304 and we all know it's thin gauge to boot.

Demon I hate to say that you are wrong. Trust me these are NOT thin guage or some crap stainless. they look like they reallly revised their sh!t and made them worth while. Pics up in a a few minutes.

You know if you don't like them, I might be willing to just take them off your hands

It might just end all your grief if you give them to me! hehe

They look pretty nice IMO

Originally posted by baggsend:
I just got some weapon r headers on ebay for $250.

first mistake is wasting money on those bad boys

Originally posted by Stazi:
Demon I hate to say that you are wrong. Trust me these are NOT thin guage or some crap stainless. they look like they reallly revised their sh!t and made them worth while. Pics up in a a few minutes.

Ya know Stazi, it looks like they are a bit different that what I've seen. The sharp bend in the Y is wider & smoother than what I've seen in the past, and the welds are definately better looking that what I've seen.

Still, they are missing a lot of other stuff that I talked about, including a warranty. That reason alone would have me saving up for MSDS, unless I was planning to sell the car real soon.

Originally posted by TourDeForce:

Still, they are missing a lot of other stuff that I talked about, including a warranty. That reason alone would have me saving up for MSDS, unless I was planning to sell the car real soon.

A warranty for what? They are stainless steel. I'm at Stazi's this weekend & I think I'm going to pick up a set of these. I don't know if they changed from the past but I'm telling you these headers are quality.

Originally posted by 98SVT_LEO:

Originally posted by baggsend:
I just got some weapon r headers on ebay for $250.

first mistake is wasting money on those bad boys

If he made a mistake then I'd like to make the same one. You got a great deal. Just needs a flange for the EGR pipe welded in & you're golden.

Well, by chance wa2tuff is coming over to have his MSDS's installed today. So I will have the opportunity to take photos of the MSDS's and the Weapon R's side by side for comparison.

That should dispell the myths that they are "very different".

Warranty is really worthless, it's not a lifetie warranty so you wouldn't realise anything was wrong with either header for years and by then it would be over.

Look how useful the warranty is on the Contour. They try to deny half your claims or make you pay exorbitant amounts for thier deductibles....

So what exactly needs to be done to make the EGR work? That is really cheap and they look alot better than before.
-tropictour

Originally posted by Stazi:
Well, by chance wa2tuff is coming over to have his MSDS's installed today. So I will have the opportunity to take photos of the MSDS's and the Weapon R's side by side for comparison.

That should dispell the myths that they are "very different".

Cant wait to see them stazi, that should put an end to it all.

Originally posted by DemonSVT:
Hell it's probably not even as good as 304L.

They list it as 304 and we all know it's thin gauge to boot.

For that reason, I'll keep my ceramic coated mild steel and

If only they had made it out of better stainless

Originally posted by todras:

Originally posted by 98SVT_LEO:

Originally posted by baggsend:
I just got some weapon r headers on ebay for $250.

first mistake is wasting money on those bad boys

If he made a mistake then I'd like to make the same one. You got a great deal. Just needs a flange for the EGR pipe welded in & you're golden.

I think i will order mine monday. Have a shop extend the egr tube. Extend the wires for the bung so htey connect to the headers. And then order my mil elimintaor from sp which are the same ones that msds uses. which are 50.00 dollars and i will only have spent 400.00. I might as well do that. Atleast her in michgan my headers won't rust.

I'd rather have coated steel then uncoated 304 SS. Every day of the week! Period.
Uncoated SS is horrible for heat retention and bleeds heat badly to the surrounding area. The more exhaust heat lost the worse the performance and the more heat introduced to the engine, oil pan, and under hood the worse every thing else is.

You can't wrap cheap SS because it will crack. I suppose you could send it in for Jet-hot coating. Then that seriously cuts into it's price advantage everyone harps about.

This is a classic example of you get what you pay for. If you want to save a little money and buy this blatant knock off design then at least get them coated. You'd be very foolish not to.

Originally posted by DemonSVT:
I'd rather have coated steel then uncoated 304 SS. Every day of the week! Period.
Uncoated SS is horrible for heat retention and bleeds heat badly to the surrounding area. The more exhaust heat lost the worse the performance and the more heat introduced to the engine, oil pan, and under hood the worse every thing else is.

You can't wrap cheap SS because it will crack. I suppose you could send it in for Jet-hot coating. Then that seriously cuts into it's price advantage everyone harps about.

This is a classic example of you get what you pay for. If you want to save a little money and buy this blatant knock off design then at least get them coated. You'd be very foolish not to.

Does anyone truelly know if they are 304 SS ....how do we not know they aren't 409 SS? Stazi have you miked up the wall thickness and compared them to MSDS? That will give you the all telling truth. Personally those headers still look like sh!t to me. The welds are wire welded and look like crap! The fact that they didn't even TIG them tells me its really crappy SS. Weapon crap R still needs to get a clue "revised" or not.

Originally posted by CustomCougars:
CustomCougars.Com is proud to release 2.5L Duratec V6 Shorty Style Headers. The headers are made from T-304 Stainless Steel. All piping is Mandrel bent tubing.

Firstly. no I didn't mic the W-R's as I don't have a mic at home, but the wall thickness is THE SAME as the MSDS by comparing the pipe thickness as the exit of the front header (bare tube).

I will say that the EGR pipe will be an issue, but I think cutting the pipe half way and then using a dryer gas flezx pipe to reconnect them will work. that is what I am planning on doing on Bk's car. When it is done I will take photos of the setup.

For now here are the pics of the two header kits:

Nice job on the pics stazi, looks almost the same to me. cant wait to see and hear these on steves car.

That bend in the y-pipe does look alot better on the WR.

stazi...what do you get to put a set of headers on? i cant find ANYONE to put headers on around here...so i'm thinking i might have to leave the tour out there at spring zing....

From what I am hearing, the WRs aren't that bad. Especially at this ebay price. So get these, some MIL eliminators or that computer thing from the SZ section, some heavy duty heater hose from Napa, and your all set right?

the weapon R are the Stainless ones right? not the coated ones? The Y pipe on the coated one is less than stellar. that bend on the right side is pathetically wrong.

The Weapon-R's are the SS non-shiny ones. The V-bend in the MSDS y-pipe is pathetic.

Tour96se I charge $300 to install headers.

Originally posted by Stazi:

Tour96se I charge $300 to install headers.

And worth every dime! I helped a little today & it's not fun! Have to have a lot of patience. Video of Tom's car will be up tomorrow.

The flange inlets are much smaller of the Weapons-Rice headers. That's a very bad sign.
The MSDS ones need to be touched up to match the stock exhaust ports. Though maybe MSDS made them larger in retrospect since I got my set.

The W-R headers do not copy the pulse matched primary lengths of the MSDS headers. You can easily see the primaries are not the same length. That is a bad error on their part. They can't even copy something correctly.

I agree the weld quality on the W-R headers sucks. Then again exterior looks aren't everything as long as it does not leak. However looking at the interior of the Y-pipe showed the inside is as bad as the outside. That can mean possible slag and weld through in the airflow.

Not surprising no one touched my main problem area about installing uncoated SS headers since there is no defense point for that glaring issue.

Originally posted by DemonSVT:

Not surprising no one touched my main problem area about installing uncoated SS headers since there is no defense point for that glaring issue.

So get them coated. How much can it be?

Originally posted by todras:

Originally posted by Stazi:

Tour96se I charge $300 to install headers.

And worth every dime! Have to have a lot of patience.

Like Todd said, lots and lots of patience!! More than I personally have. Thanks to Stazi, Todd, and Mike. I very pleased with the results and the sound.

& thanks for the great smokey burnout.

Wish my camera was rolling.

Originally posted by TourDeForce:
MSDS is DEFINATELY a better choice. Fitment, warranty, gaskets, MILs, & hardware are just a few things that you don't get with WRs. WRs are a viable choice for those on a budget, but if you have a few extra $, the MSDS are gonna save you some headaches & heartbreak. Well worth it if a header ever cracks, or just to avoid having to deal with fitting the darn things.

MSDS are still the best.

Well let me think....

$650 for coated mild steel that always corrodes and requires yearly maintenance with exhaust paint coatings (like thermotec)
OR:

$499 or less for stainless that appears to be decent grade and gauge.

MIL eliminators can be built for $1.50 if you just pull your lower O2 sensor and solder them in. I did my last couple of sets like that and I've never had a problem. THe O2 sensor wires are a little hard to solder so use the silver/solder and get it really hot. Then use some heat shrink tubing and you're good.

Gaskets are a waste unless your stock gaskets are no good or if your headers are not fitting. I've gone back to stock gaskets every time since they are double stainless steel and they don't leak. Your choice here but I think that anywhere from a $150 to $200 savings if not more is worth these areas that lack and if you take into account the corrosion resistance of stainless then ???????????

Originally posted by DemonSVT:
I'd rather have coated steel then uncoated 304 SS. Every day of the week! Period.
Uncoated SS is horrible for heat retention and bleeds heat badly to the surrounding area. The more exhaust heat lost the worse the performance and the more heat introduced to the engine, oil pan, and under hood the worse every thing else is.

You can't wrap cheap SS because it will crack. I suppose you could send it in for Jet-hot coating. Then that seriously cuts into it's price advantage everyone harps about.

This is a classic example of you get what you pay for. If you want to save a little money and buy this blatant knock off design then at least get them coated. You'd be very foolish not to.

Sorry but there are a few misconceptions here.

304L stainless is normally just fine for high heat apps.
Stainless does NOT conduct heat as well as mild steel, therefore it will not remove as much heat from the exhaust.
The life of the mild steel or the stainless will be greatly reduced with header wrap and you will never know until the mild steel pipe has holes forming in it or the stainless suddenly cracks open.
This is one reason why the stock manifolds w/precats have bolt on reflective heat shields rather then wrapping, yet the stock y-pipe uses a wrap and metal covering. The exhaust cools significantly by the time it gets down to the y-pipe and wrapping is not an issue.
I wouldn't wrap my headers anyway but would design or copy the heat shielding if it was important.

Mild steel advantages are that it is cheaper, ductile and therefore less likely to crack.
Mild steel disadvantage is the higher thermal conductivity (in this case) and its inability to resist degradation from the high heat of the exhaust due to the diffusivity of the carbon and other alloying elements. This heat affects any metal but it is slower and requires even higher temperatures in the desirable stainless steels. This is exactly why 304L or better is good for the higher temp "hot" pipes and 304 is good for the cooler sections. I don't know if the weaponR headers are 304 or 304L but I'd really like to find out.

Originally posted by warmonger:

Well let me think....

$650 for coated mild steel that always corrodes and requires yearly maintenance with exhaust paint coatings (like thermotec)
OR:

$499 or less for stainless that appears to be decent grade and gauge.

MIL eliminators can be built for $1.50 if you just pull your lower O2 sensor and solder them in. I did my last couple of sets like that and I've never had a problem. THe O2 sensor wires are a little hard to solder so use the silver/solder and get it really hot. Then use some heat shrink tubing and you're good.

Gaskets are a waste unless your stock gaskets are no good or if your headers are not fitting. I've gone back to stock gaskets every time since they are double stainless steel and they don't leak. Your choice here but I think that anywhere from a $150 to $200 savings if not more is worth these areas that lack and if you take into account the corrosion resistance of stainless then ???????????

Someone with sense. How -to on MIL's. Weapon R's can be found on ebay for $375 w/ shipping. Also the Y-pipe doesn't have the nasty bend MSDS does.

Really how much are 2 exhaust manifold gaskets?

If you can get someone to move the EGR port you'll save some good $. Oh yea & sell the Y-pipe to someone and save even more. You could optimize your stock one. I would keep it but shows how cheap you could go.

I'll see if our metallurgists can confirm the material through non-destructive testing.

Originally posted by Stazi:
I'll see if our metallurgists can confirm the material through non-destructive testing.

Stazi,

The easiest (relatively speaking

) way to tell is to cut him a small piece off one of the lips on the pipes, say just a few mm square, away from one of the welds. Probably at the end of one of the header down-pipes. Then if you have the facilities you can use an SEM or FESEM to determine the composition by percent through x-ray detection. Even cheap SEMs have a way to read the x-rays.
Your technician should be able to get a few SEM shots of the grains and grain boundaries too so that you can get a good idea of the metal by comparison.

Oh, there is EDS and EELS too but those are much more time consuming (read: costly).

We have an SEM with x-ray diffraction capabilities.

Tom you are comparing uncoated mild to uncoated SS.

I was comparing the Jet-hot style coated mild to uncoated SS. Exactly like the come.

Jet-hot coating a set of headers is in the $200-300 range IIRC. That makes the price difference very minor.

Also the W-R headers don't match the primary lengths nor does the overall build quality look very good. (Even if the material itself is better now)

If you want to compare just the price of the headers as they come it looks like the W-R headers have a huge price advantage. However when you look at the whole picture it's not such an advantage really and that's just from a price stand point. The MSDS headers have ever other advantage except the Y-pipe design. Then again I bet the W-R Y-pipe's extra length unbalances the U bend's pulse. Par for the course with Weapons-Rice. If you aren't going to exactly match stock then just remove it and tune your chip for it or run a modified stock Y-pipe.

Originally posted by DemonSVT:

Also the W-R headers don't match the primary lengths nor does the overall build quality look very good. (Even if the material itself is better now)

If you want to compare just the price of the headers as they come it looks like the W-R headers have a huge price advantage. However when you look at the whole picture it's not such an advantage really and that's just from a price stand point. The MSDS headers have ever other advantage except the Y-pipe design. Then again I bet the W-R Y-pipe's extra length unbalances the U bend's pulse. Par for the course with Weapons-Rice. If you aren't going to exactly match stock then just remove it and tune your chip for it or run a modified stock Y-pipe.

WTH??? Greg, did you even look at the pics?? The primaries are IDENTICAL on both headers. Granted the y-pipe at the back has a longer section for the rear header, but I would think that it would be BETTER seeing as it's length is closer matched to that of the front pipe, i.e. what you would want ( qual length secondaries)

I don't understand why your fighting this so hard.

The only downside I can agree with you upon is the lack of couting, but my ADC headers aren't coated either and I have had NO issues with those, and they run way hotter than any N/A application herein.

Jet Hot coating a set of headers for the Duratec is $195 FWIW. $125 with a group discount but mentioned in the MSDS GB thread.

pass........

Wow ... Stazi headers would probably be a peice of cake to install when the trans is pulled right ...

Yes, A LOT EASIER!

Note:
304 and 304L are both slightly magnetic, which can be relieved after heating, so once they been run on a car above 700�?°C they'll lose magnetism.
The 304L is lower carbon 0.03% vs 0.15% for regular 304.
The lower carbon in the 304L is better for welding (due to a lower precipitation of carbides).
304L is softer (Brinell 140) than 304 (Brinell 150) by a smidge and also has a lower tensile stregth of 80ksi vs 85ksi.

Originally posted by Stazi:
Note:
304 and 304L are both slightly magnetic, which can be relieved after heating, so once they been run on a car above 700�?°C they'll lose magnetism.
The 304L is lower carbon 0.03% vs 0.15% for regular 304.
The lower carbon in the 304L is better for welding (due to a lower precipitation of carbides).
304L is softer (Brinell 140) than 304 (Brinell 150) by a smidge and also has a lower tensile stregth of 80ksi vs 85ksi.

304 or 316 SS is barely magnetic....409 SS is damn near like normal mild steel in magnetism. 304 or 316 SS is very easy to weld...even 409 is easy to weld.

I would still rather have a coated header inside and out like mine to help dissipate the heat out of the engine bay. My car ran much cooler when I installed my headers compared to the stock manifolds.

yes Greg the poor weld quality on the outside could still have good penetration/ interior weld quality. BUt I highly doubt that inless they back purged the welds and had excellent fitment priot to welding. And considering MIG weldings inability to penetrate the base metals and only fuse on top. I'm not impressed by weapon rices attempts.

I see no porosity or slag in the weld beads so it seams that the penetration was good.

If the MSDS headers are TIG'd, are you sure they capped the headers and filled them with the welding gas also? That's the only way to promote good internal penetration, and I highly doubt they did that.

The weld on the W-R's look fine. And being somewhat of a welding buff from my days or working in the mines, I can say that they would pass any piping standards.

Originally posted by Stazi:
I'll see if our metallurgists can confirm the material through non-destructive testing.

You might not need to do that if there is a big difference in material cost between 304 & 304L...

Material is 304 SS.

At this time our company has the last 14 pairs of headers instock for the next 60 days. Any items you see on ebay will be backordered for atleast T-60 Days due to the current backorder status from the manufacturer.

Thanks
James
CustomCougars.Com

Does this mean that if we order a set NOW that they won't be backordered for 60 days?

From him yes, from eBay you wait...that's how I'm reading it.

Originally posted by Stazi:
I see no porosity or slag in the weld beads so it seams that the penetration was good.

If the MSDS headers are TIG'd, are you sure they capped the headers and filled them with the welding gas also? That's the only way to promote good internal penetration, and I highly doubt they did that.

The weld on the W-R's look fine. And being somewhat of a welding buff from my days or working in the mines, I can say that they would pass any piping standards.

MSDS are wire welded also. I have no idea if Marty back purges them, but I know they are welded rather solid form the bead size. Visual inspection is one thing but actual break testing, porsity etc testing I dunnno. If they had porsity problems with those weapon R headers then they are defianately using either 409 or a very low low grade SS. ON the inside of the pipes how do the welds look? If they where back purged they should look like a perfectly smooth bead. At least thats what I see everytime someone does that kind of welding.

I have 13 sets of headers instock. Direct from WR they are the last sets in the USA till the next shipment from them in about 60 days.

I work at Weapon*R and i just logged in to clear up a few things.

Our Welds Are Not "Back Purged".
Our Welds are Wire Fed, Stainless 304 Steel Wire.
Our Materials ARE " 304 From Flange to Flange ".

Notes:
These are some things " I " have encountered in my racing experience.
* Steel or Coated steel will Rust regardless.
* Steel or Coated Steel will Rust faster is wrapped.
* Some companies Coat their headers to cover up their sloppy welds.
* Some Companies Use Steel Chrome PLated Flanges with stainless tubes, and still say it's a stainless header.
* Back Purging headers before/ after / and during welding headers does help, but not for a header at this price.
* By the look of the MSDS header it is also MIG WELDED and Not back purged.

We do Tig Weld & Back Purge our " RACE HEADERS ".
We do build and support race cars in the Asia Supercar Series, and now the USTCC..

You can go to our website and see some of the racecars or streetcars we helped build or have built.

If anyone has any questions, please feel free to email me.
thank you.

Leo Now
Weapon*R USA
R&D FAB SHOP Manager.

Well, I guess he told you guys...

Originally posted by WRLEO:

These are some things " I " have encountered in my racing experience.
* Steel or Coated steel will Rust regardless.

I can vouch for that. My MSDS headers have done nothing but rust. I even emailed Marty about it before I bought them (1st gen coating) and he assured me that I would have no problems. Hell, my replacemnt y-pipe (1st one cracked and leaked) even began to show rust having only driven in rain from May to Aug and then went all to [censored] after it's first winter. I don't care what all of you say about MSDS's service....when I had contacted Marty about this problem do you want to know what his response was.....drumroll.....NOTHING. He never replied and all of this was within the first year of owning the headers. Quite frankly, if I had the extra $$ between living expenses and my motor build, I'd buy a set of these, modify the y-pipe to work with a 2-bolt flange and coat them and piss on my MSDS headers.

Sorry for the rant (well not really), but I am tired of everyone defending MSDS and saying they are the only and best solution.

Stazi plan on putting in headers when I bring my car for the trans pull in a couple weeks

Originally posted by timeless420:

Originally posted by WRLEO:

These are some things " I " have encountered in my racing experience.
* Steel or Coated steel will Rust regardless.

I can vouch for that. My MSDS headers have done nothing but rust. I even emailed Marty about it before I bought them (1st gen coating) and he assured me that I would have no problems. Hell, my replacemnt y-pipe (1st one cracked and leaked) even began to show rust having only driven in rain from May to Aug and then went all to [censored] after it's first winter. I don't care what all of you say about MSDS's service....when I had contacted Marty about this problem do you want to know what his response was.....drumroll.....NOTHING. He never replied and all of this was within the first year of owning the headers. Quite frankly, if I had the extra $$ between living expenses and my motor build, I'd buy a set of these, modify the y-pipe to work with a 2-bolt flange and coat them and piss on my MSDS headers.

Sorry for the rant (well not really), but I am tired of everyone defending MSDS and saying they are the only and best solution.

Thank you for your experience. I am glad to hear a neagative side to MSDS. Nothing is ever as pretty as every one paints it out to be. And of course i like both sides to every story.

Originally posted by Mkingracing:
... of course i like both sides to every story.

YOU, sir, are talkin' like a republican!

(flame suit on)

This summer I plan on going WRheaders/y, a catt'd test pipe from TruBendz (doing this because I hear running no cats hurts perf overall?!? is this true?), and trubends res Magnaflow system.

Amen for my collector plated or else id be screwed for emissions.

Stazi, how much to install headers, test pipe, and exhaust.. welded too

Id be willing to drive up from Cleveland for a day :-D

OK over at cta motorsports they dynoed a svt contour with a there down pipe, which i believe they sell bat downpipes. Well the pipe with the cat gained both Tq and HP all threw out the power band. Now the downpipe without a cat lost Tq by -3 up to -7 threw the power band, hp was a little less at low rpms and only gained at 6k and above which was +2. Now that this qustion has been answer. On a stock exhaust and down pipe do not get a downpipe without a cat you lose low end and gain only 2 hp on top end. Plus you get alot more rasp. So please order own with a cat. thank you good day!

Originally posted by djdanyloz:
This summer I plan on going WRheaders/y, a catt'd test pipe from TruBendz (doing this because I hear running no cats hurts perf overall?!? is this true?), and trubends res Magnaflow system.

Amen for my collector plated or else id be screwed for emissions.

Stazi, how much to install headers, test pipe, and exhaust.. welded too

Id be willing to drive up from Cleveland for a day :-D

Send me a PM

Originally posted by CustomCougars:
Material is 304 SS.

At this time our company has the last 14 pairs of headers instock for the next 60 days. Any items you see on ebay will be backordered for atleast T-60 Days due to the current backorder status from the manufacturer.

Thanks
James
CustomCougars.Com

That's pretty funny considering my headers just came in last week and are sitting in a box at the local shop that I use....This was after they were on backorder. When I get off vacation I will pick them up and give another first hand perspective on these issues of quality.

Mig welding 304 ss is fine as long as the gas and wire types recomended by professional welders are adhered to.

304L being softer and easier welding is just a little more insurance that they don't crack during use.

I personnaly have bought weaponR products in the past for a buddy's acura that I worked on and the quality and fitment was good, the performance was similar to the claims they made.

As long as these headers have a decent warranty against cracking along the welds then I wouldn't have any misgivings about installing them.

Now that we have a rep from weaponR on here:

What is the warranty on these headers?

Originally posted by warmonger:
What is the warranty on these headers?

Weapons-R come with ZERO warranty.

Once you pay them your money they are your responsibility. Always a comforting feeling.

it was a really comfortable feeling when i paid 700 bucks for my torsen to..."OMG it doesn't come wtih a warranty!!!"
but its all good cause i have never seen a problem out of them. As for the headers, i even own a set of them and i don't REALLY trust them all that much.

Originally posted by DemonSVT:
Always a comforting feeling.

And a comforting feeling, knowing you installed a part made by a company named.... "Weapon RRRRRRRRRRRR"

They better atleast send me a Type-R sticker for my fender.

Mark

........

.....i don't have weapon-r headers, i have custom made headers! lol

Originally posted by 99cougar:
........ .....i don't have weapon-r headers, i have custom made headers! lol

Hahaa!! I'd say the same thing if people asked

.

I personally wouldn't support Weapon-R, even if there name wasn't ridiculously ricey, just for the fact that they copied MSDS's design.

Mark

i dont support them i just couldn't say no for 125 shipped!

Originally posted by 99cougar:
i dont support them i just couldn't say no for 125 shipped!

Can't blame you there. I'da jumped on that deal.

Originally posted by Y2KSVT:

Originally posted by 99cougar:
........ .....i don't have weapon-r headers, i have custom made headers! lol

Hahaa!! I'd say the same thing if people asked .

I personally wouldn't support Weapon-R, even if there name wasn't ridiculously ricey, just for the fact that they copied MSDS's design.

Mark

Like they're the first company to copy a car part -
PLEASE!

Originally posted by Stazi:

Originally posted by Y2KSVT:

Originally posted by 99cougar:
........ .....i don't have weapon-r headers, i have custom made headers! lol

Hahaa!! I'd say the same thing if people asked .

I personally wouldn't support Weapon-R, even if there name wasn't ridiculously ricey, just for the fact that they copied MSDS's design.

Mark

Like they're the first company to copy a car part -
PLEASE!

Does that make it right? If it were a custom body kit that was made by Veilside or Bomex for example and some other company copied it exactly and tried to sell it as their own, they would probably be sued.

Just because it is in low quantities for our car and Marty doesn't seem to be doing anything still doesn't make it ethical or right. I wouldn't suport them on that basis alone. IMHO, of course...

Originally posted by path914:

Originally posted by Stazi:

Originally posted by Y2KSVT:

Originally posted by 99cougar:
........ .....i don't have weapon-r headers, i have custom made headers! lol

Hahaa!! I'd say the same thing if people asked .

I personally wouldn't support Weapon-R, even if there name wasn't ridiculously ricey, just for the fact that they copied MSDS's design.

Mark

Like they're the first company to copy a car part -
PLEASE!

Does that make it right? If it were a custom body kit that was made by Veilside or Bomex for example and some other company copied it exactly and tried to sell it as their own, they would probably be sued.

Just because it is in low quantities for our car and Marty doesn't seem to be doing anything still doesn't make it ethical or right. I wouldn't suport them on that basis alone. IMHO, of course...

Marty can't do anything anyways. Who has ever presented tangible evidence showing that the weapon R's are identical?? According to desmon he says the tubes are differnet in lengths, Now your saying they are identical. This tells me you guys are all talk you have no idea if they are or arn't. Nobody within these boards have provided any drafting/blueprints of the measurements of the msds. Where we can compare to the Weapon R's. And looking at the pics you can't tell a damn thing different. So instead of making false statements saying they copied, Show me proof or stop making up stories. The way i see it if they are indentical how come they work on cougars and not contours. Because they are not identical!! "" Well the tubes run identical and the tubes are the same length""?? Show me proof and then i believe you guys. Man alot of smoke is getting blown around in this disscussion.

Originally posted by Mkingracing:
Who has ever presented tangible evidence showing that the weapon R's are identical?? According to desmon he says the tubes are differnet in lengths, Now your saying they are identical. This tells me you guys are all talk you have no idea if they are or arn't. Nobody within these boards have provided any drafting/blueprints of the measurements of the msds. Where we can compare to the Weapon R's. And looking at the pics you can't tell a damn thing different. So instead of making false statements saying they copied, Show me proof or stop making up stories. The way i see it if they are indentical how come they work on cougars and not contours. Because they are not identical!! "" Well the tubes run identical and the tubes are the same length""?? Show me proof and then i believe you guys. Man alot of smoke is getting blown around in this disscussion.

CEG is not MSDS. It's not up to CEG to prove or disprove anything for your benefit or anybody elses.

Why so hostile? If you're so all fired up about it, measure up your WRs when you get em & give the "blueprints" or "drafting" to Marty so you can prove, once & for all, whether they are the same.

You are wrong MKingracing.

W-R "literally" took a set of MSDS headers and copied them. Go find the posts of them asking for volunteers. (here & NECO) IIRC some Cougar guy finally did it for them.
This is old news so it's not like anyone is bring up any new "accusations" or "statements" either.

That is why I made the statement they can't even copy things correctly. It is plainly obvious to see the header primary lengths are different. The MSDS headers have tuned primary lengths to best match the pulses from the cylinders. That is why the collector is angled the way it is. They could have given it more side to side clearance & make then easier to build by turning the collector but that would change the length of the primaries.

W-R went the easier route and just turned the collector.
"Hence my previous statements"

You get what you pay for...

On top of that I would not put an uncoated set of headers on anything I owned. If you are going to use W-R headers at least have the sensibility to get them coated IMHSFHO.

Also I am all for supporting a Shop that made "half price" headers for our ignored platform when the only other option was the $1250+ SHM headers.
Marty also supports Spring Zing (MSDS header set give away) & supports the NECO site. In today's society just call me old fashioned for having some loyalty. I won't argue the price point because the ~$150 difference is a chunk of change (coated vs coated sets)

Originally posted by DemonSVT:
...they can't even copy things correctly.

Which brings up another point - the EGR bung. Dont the Cougar owners also have fitment problems they must overcome to get the EGR tube to install on the WR headers? Same as the problem with fitment on the Contour.

Originally posted by TourDeForce:
Which brings up another point - the EGR bung. Dont the Cougar owners also have fitment problems they must overcome to get the EGR tube to install on the WR headers? Same as the problem with fitment on the Contour.

The headers were test fit on an 01 or 02 Cougar. That model has a different EGR location, 1 secondary O2 sensor, and a slightly different mount. (IIRC on the mount)

So yes 99 through early 01 has the same fitment problems. (i.e. most of the Cougars or a good 150k of the 183,464 Cougars produced from 99-02)

Later 01 and 02 do not. 1/6 of 99-02 production.

W-R's brilliance shines through... (cheap shot but it was just too easy

)

If you took CDW-27 productions numbers as a whole. They would fit roughly 2.5% of the production run without modification. If every car was a V6 that is.

Originally posted by DemonSVT:

You get what you pay for...

thats all you had to say.

Originally posted by TourDeForce:

Originally posted by Mkingracing:
Who has ever presented tangible evidence showing that the weapon R's are identical?? According to desmon he says the tubes are differnet in lengths, Now your saying they are identical. This tells me you guys are all talk you have no idea if they are or arn't. Nobody within these boards have provided any drafting/blueprints of the measurements of the msds. Where we can compare to the Weapon R's. And looking at the pics you can't tell a damn thing different. So instead of making false statements saying they copied, Show me proof or stop making up stories. The way i see it if they are indentical how come they work on cougars and not contours. Because they are not identical!! "" Well the tubes run identical and the tubes are the same length""?? Show me proof and then i believe you guys. Man alot of smoke is getting blown around in this disscussion.

CEG is not MSDS. It's not up to CEG to prove or disprove anything for your benefit or anybody elses .

Why so hostile? If you're so all fired up about it, measure up your WRs when you get em & give the "blueprints" or "drafting" to Marty so you can prove, once & for all, whether they are the same.

Demon you explain that the mesurements are off. But then again i don't see how, even stazi mentioned in this disscussion for you to look at the pics again? To point out where they are different, it seems to me even stazi see's that they are identical. I never found in seaching and even in the old archives where weapon r was asking for a set of msds headers.
Tour

It's not up to CEG to prove or disprove anything for your benefit or anybody elses If it's not up to ceg. You probably meant the people of ceg??

measure up your WRs when you get em & give the "blueprints" or "drafting" Then who are talking to here? I belong to ceg?? Maybe i am missing something.
You don't want the people on ceg to do it but you want a person from ceg to do this??

I really do not get at all the logic of saying that weapon r copied other headers. it is such a goofy statement. ANY headers made like mustang gt shorty headers are ALL similar and copied the original basic design of the factory headers with improvements. ALL 3.8 gm supercharged headers front wheel drive have the same basic design. Both the MSDS and Weapon R are copies of the OEM manufacturer headers WITH improvements in size and flow patterns. The whole argument about copy of one another makes NO SENSE!!!!!

In the end it's your decision. If you wanna spend over $600 to buy mild steel headers which you HOPE won't rust, then that's your prerogative. Personally I wouldn't after seeing the lack of differences, AND seeing the benefit of the WR's being SS is a plus. Greg, you complain about them being uncoated, yet, the ADC headers are uncoated too and run hotter, and I have seen no detriment to that.

My honest opinion is that the claims of them being inferior are unfounded and based on speculation alone. I honestly think I am one of the few that has had the opportunity to see both sets at the same time and thus can truly appreciate their similarities. And hell for the difference in price, no one is worth that devotion.

Afterall don't we all buy ait filters from one place, MAF adapters from another and exhaust form another place again in the attempt to save money??? Why does that ideal stop here?

From where I'm sitting it seems like a lot of MSDS owners are pissed they dropped big coin on headers when a cheaper yet equally as good IF NOT BETTER, set is now available and the claims of them being soft and made crapily is basically BS.

Okay first I will agree with Demon and second I paid 600 for my msds shipped and have been very impressed with them. But to each his own!

Originally posted by Mkingracing:
Tour
It's not up to CEG to prove or disprove anything for your benefit or anybody elses
If it's not up to ceg. You probably meant the people of ceg??

measure up your WRs when you get em & give the "blueprints" or "drafting" Then who are talking to here? I belong to ceg?? Maybe i am missing something.
You don't want the people on ceg to do it but you want a person from ceg to do this??

Re-read the previous post I made, in its entirety, slowly so you'll perhaps understand it better. Honestly, I don't think your reading comprehension could possibly be that poor.

You're griping about no proof & unsubstantiated claims, so I put the onus on you to put the issue to rest once & for all. Since you have a set of WR on the way, why not step up to the plate junior?

Originally posted by TourDeForce:

Originally posted by Mkingracing:
Tour
It's not up to CEG to prove or disprove anything for your benefit or anybody elses
If it's not up to ceg. You probably meant the people of ceg??

measure up your WRs when you get em & give the "blueprints" or "drafting" Then who are talking to here? I belong to ceg?? Maybe i am missing something.
You don't want the people on ceg to do it but you want a person from ceg to do this??

Re-read the previous post I made, in its entirety, slowly so you'll perhaps understand it better. Honestly, I don't think your reading comprehension could possibly be that poor.

You're griping about no proof & unsubstantiated claims, so I put the onus on you to put the issue to rest once & for all. Since you have a set of WR on the way, why not step up to the plate junior?

No i understood you perfectly junior!! lol
Look, bottom line i believe at first they where knock offs because i listened to the elders on this. Now, wondering are they really? So who ever started the title "knock offs" should present information provding that they are. If you go to court and you present a case you have to have evdience or it is dissmissed. Simple you state a theory you prove it. If you say they are knock offs that show me they are untill then its your opinoin. All i did was question your statement. That is it!!

Originally posted by Mkingracing:
So who ever started the title "knock offs" should present information provding that they are.

You just don't get it do you. Junior.

Link here

Excerpt here...

Quote:

We know for a fact weapon R copied the headers having taken a set from a member here, taking forever to return them, and finally returning a cut up set, of which was copied.

Remember weapon R is based in japan, and as said amongst the SEMA community members I know personally... and I quote... "These Cheap Japanese knock off companies, copy our hard work, use substandard japanese steel, and literally smuggle the parts into the country in their suitcases"

You must realize that Japanese 304 SS (any Japanese steel) is NO WHERE NEAR the quality of our steel. That's a fact that is undisputable. PERIOD.

I know first hand even. I lived there 3 years.

Without dyno comparisons, criticisms from both sides pertaining to performance are useless...

On a side note, at only $100 more than the BAT Y-pipe, I wish the Weapon-R headers would have come out sooner. Even if the performance numbers are a little less than MSDS's, IMHO the price justifies the difference.

Originally posted by Antiramie:
Even if the performance numbers are a little less than MSDS's, IMHO the price justifies the difference.

THANK YOU

For almost HALF the price of MSDS - Including a much better looking Y-pipe - and all rendered in stainless steel ...

I'm guessing Stazi is the only person here who has seen these in person side by side too ...

Originally posted by akrump47:
I'm guessing Stazi is the only person here who has seen these in person side by side too ...

I've seen them too, but earlier versions. The Y has a smoother bend, but it's longer, so I don't know what that will do for performance. I may have pix of the older headers so you can compare welds, I'll check.

If I'm reading this thread correctly, the SS headers will have a higher risk of cracking, so the install will have to be very good with little stress on the parts. That means fitment must be good - not a strong point with WR in this application. Maybe that's why they don't offer a warranty.

Still, as I said, a viable alternative for somebody on a budget as I've seen the install & the product at work. Thus far, it seems to be OK for most who have them. I too, don't appreciate their business tactics - if, in fact, they did copy another makers design.

I overlayed the exhaust gaskets and they fit perfectly, so fitment should be an issue.

All headers are now instock and will begin shipping tomorrow... Just confirmed with owner of Leo it may be 6 months before the next batch is instock.

Thanks
James

Originally posted by Stazi:
I overlayed the exhaust gaskets and they fit perfectly, so fitment should be an issue.

Of all the CEGers, you are one of few that I would gladly trust to work on my car Stazi - that's sayin' a lot 'cause I won't let a dealer tech touch my Contour. I have total confidence in your ability to get a good install with this - even the EGR tube modification, if required.

I found the pix of the WR headers & will post them tonight.

I posted them already side-byside with the MSDS ones. Look on page one.

Thanks for the compliments.

Originally posted by akrump47:
I'm guessing Stazi is the only person here who has seen these in person side by side too ...

wrongo
the first set installed or at least posted about was on NECO. It was a fellow friend that did the write up. He was able to bend the y pipe by hand...they said they where junk. he had MSDS headers on his cougar so they knew what to expect. I also know the individual that gave the set of MSDS headers to Weapon R for them to cut up and copy. At that time they didn't fit up well where made of very thin SS and very supect on quality.

But now from what Stazi has been saying they are better built, stronger and fit better. Maybe weapon R did make revisions if so good for them. Too each his own. MSDS and weapon R each have there downfalls....

This has been a pretty informative thread, thanks for the opinions on both sides.

About the copying thing, I just keeping thinking to myself that all i read is about packaging issues and how little room there is. Seems to me that this would really limit the amount of ways the headers can be designed. I would rather have a good design than have have WR [censored] things up with a piss poor design just to be original. Seems counter-intuitive to me.

Originally posted by Pope Dnewma IV:
This has been a pretty informative thread, thanks for the opinions on both sides.

About the copying thing, I just keeping thinking to myself that all i read is about packaging issues and how little room there is. Seems to me that this would really limit the amount of ways the headers can be designed. I would rather have a good design than have have WR [censored] things up with a piss poor design just to be original. Seems counter-intuitive to me.

They could actually have made a great design by doing a little research on the SHM headers, and taking a shot at copying those. Since SHM gave up on their headers, WR would have gotten the equivalent of a free pass, most of the R&D done for them. Just a little effort & 0 controversy. But no, they had to take the super easy route, beg for a set of MSDS from some enthusiast board, and make direct knock-offs. I have no respect for a company like that.

Originally posted by TourDeForce:

Originally posted by Pope Dnewma IV:
This has been a pretty informative thread, thanks for the opinions on both sides.

About the copying thing, I just keeping thinking to myself that all i read is about packaging issues and how little room there is. Seems to me that this would really limit the amount of ways the headers can be designed. I would rather have a good design than have have WR [censored] things up with a piss poor design just to be original. Seems counter-intuitive to me.

They could actually have made a great design by doing a little research on the SHM headers, and taking a shot at copying those. Since SHM gave up on their headers, WR would have gotten the equivalent of a free pass, most of the R&D done for them. Just a little effort & 0 controversy. But no, they had to take the super easy route, beg for a set of MSDS from some enthusiast board, and make direct knock-offs. I have no respect for a company like that.

Why did SHM give up on headers? If I am going to copy one or another, I suppose I would be looking at copying the more successful model. In either case, you are still copying, where do you draw the ethical line? Copying is great, as long you copy from a defunct product line? Seems like splitting hairs. Don't worry, I take the same stands with some products, as well. I understand where you are coming from with your argument. It's essentially the same reason I don't buy products from DEI.

Originally posted by Pope Dnewma IV:

Originally posted by TourDeForce:

Originally posted by Pope Dnewma IV:
This has been a pretty informative thread, thanks for the opinions on both sides.

About the copying thing, I just keeping thinking to myself that all i read is about packaging issues and how little room there is. Seems to me that this would really limit the amount of ways the headers can be designed. I would rather have a good design than have have WR [censored] things up with a piss poor design just to be original. Seems counter-intuitive to me.

They could actually have made a great design by doing a little research on the SHM headers, and taking a shot at copying those. Since SHM gave up on their headers, WR would have gotten the equivalent of a free pass, most of the R&D done for them. Just a little effort & 0 controversy. But no, they had to take the super easy route, beg for a set of MSDS from some enthusiast board, and make direct knock-offs. I have no respect for a company like that.

Why did SHM give up on headers? If I am going to copy one or another, I suppose I would be looking at copying the more successful model. In either case, you are still copying, where do you draw the ethical line? Copying is great, as long you copy from a defunct product line? Seems like splitting hairs. Don't worry, I take the same stands with some products, as well. I understand where you are coming from with your argument. It's essentially the same reason I don't buy products from DEI.

It is one thing to copy a design that is no longer being offered - it's not a viable choice for anybody that may want to purchase. I welcome WR in a case like this - it give us choices & nobody is being hurt.

MSDS is a going concern & their design was still available for purchase. WR doing their thing has a direct impact on the people that did the work to come up with that design - I have a huge problem with that. Maybe what WR has done is legal. Maybe MSDS didn't patent their design, maybe they didn't specify all materials in their patent, so WR could legally copy the design & use different materials - whatever. I still see it as shady at best, & criminal in the worst case.

SHM was before my time, but from what I gather they were long tube headers. SHM, or whoever, was charging $1250 for the set. Then along came Marty with the MSDS shorty set for half the cost. I would expect SHM was getting few sales at that price & when MSDS came along, they were the death knell as you might imagine. Could be that SHM has a better process for protecting their intellectual property & WR couldn't copy without paying royalties - who knows...

I would guess that it was a case of not being able to get their hands on a set of SHM headers. Either that, or they just didn't know about them.

Originally posted by Jason43:
I would guess that it was a case of not being able to get their hands on a set of SHM headers. Either that, or they just didn't know about them.

Where's the WR R&D guy when you need him...

If they didn't know about SHM making $1250 headers, that's not much of an R&D department. WR shoulda been licking their lips & scrambling to get into that market. They could have easily designed some similar units just based on pictures that were available. Additionally, I'm sure lotsa guys here were screaming at WR for long tube headers when they came 'round looking for volunteers to send in the shorties for copying.

Does anybody recall? I'd like to get the viewpoint of somebody that actually witnessed all of that mess.

Originally posted by TourDeForce:
Where's the WR R&D guy when you need him...

That's one of those oxymorons right...

They did not even want to spring the $600 to buy a set of MSDS header to copy. They got an owner to send them their own set and then cut his up.

Personally I couldn't see sending them my $600 set of headers but my $1250+ set of headers... Riiiiiiight...

Originally posted by DemonSVT:

Originally posted by TourDeForce:
Where's the WR R&D guy when you need him...

That's one of those oxymorons right...

Considering the methods, yes, it would be, wouldn't it!

Of course, you know that's exactly my point.

Demon, knowing that SHM is not making the long tube headers any more, if you could get a set of SHM knock-off headers from WR for say... $600, same price as MSDS, would you buy 'em? Even if a trusted member like Stazi offered pix & a statement about their construction?

I would.

Just to throw another opinion out there...

I recieved the set of WR headers I ordered from CC today(only took 2 days to get here). I have to agree with everything Stazi has said about them. They are in no way cheap or flimsy. There is no way anyone short of a professioinal body builder is going to bend the headers or y-pipe by hand.

The welds are a little slopy, but not bad. They do however seem to be solid and look to have good penetration. The y-pipe bend looks better than any MSDS pipe I've seen pictured on here.

I matched up a set of 3.0 manifold gaskets I had sitting around and they fit perfectly. It doesnt look like they would need to be touched up at all prior to installation.

On top of everything, the set I recieved was polished to boot

.

I haven't installed them yet, so I can't comment on fitment. Other than the EGR, I don't expect to have any other problems. I'm not going to wrap them, but do plan on fabbing some kind of heatshield similar to whats on the stock manifolds. That should hopefully take care of any concerns about SS possibly letting off more heat than coated steel, while also addressing the the concerns that SS could crack if wrapped.

This may change once I try to install them, but overall, I have absolutely nothing to complain about with these.

I'm also not trying to start any flame wars with the MSDS faithfull, I'm just giving my opinion after actually having these in my possession.

Can anyone give me some details on the EGR issue? I am ordering headers really soon and if these will go in without major problems I will probably go with those.
-tropictour

I'll post pics of the EGR pipe adaptation when I do it, mind you it will be for a oval port 3L withplastic UIM. Nonetheless the approach I will take can be done with the regular Contout UM and EGr pipe.

OK guy's was just looking at ordering these from Custom Cougars.On their website they sell a cat that bolts upto the stock pre cats OR the Weapon R headers

Now if the cat bolts to the Weapon R headers AND the factory pre cats that suggests to me that they have the same exit angles etc

This seems to contradict what Stazi is saying(not doubting you as you have fitted them!!) There's no point me ordering a new cat if my bat y pipe and cat will bolt unto the Weapon R's

Is custom Cougars info wrong? And are they a good place to source these(shipping to the UK,England)

The cat connection angle was not what I said was different. It was the connection of the rear header to the y-pipe that looks different.

Originally posted by Stazi:
The cat connection angle was not what I said was different. It was the connection of the rear header to the y-pipe that looks different.

sorry,so the info on custom cougars site is wrong?ie,you couldn't use the stock y pipe with the weapon r headers?

It MAY fit, but why would you want to use the stcok y-pipe anyway - it sucks!

Originally posted by Stazi:
It MAY fit, but why would you want to use the stcok y-pipe anyway - it sucks!

no no,you not getting my point. What i'm saying is IF the stock Y pipe mates upto the headers OK then my BAT Y pipe and cat will mate upto the headers OK too(as the BAT Y pipe mates to the pre cats OK so would be the same as the stock Y mating up to the headers!) se what i mean?

Bloody Pom! You confuse everyone!

All I can say is "try it" if the stock or BAT y-pipe fits, then great, if not, use the WR one.

Originally posted by Mondeo V6:

Originally posted by Stazi:
It MAY fit, but why would you want to use the stcok y-pipe anyway - it sucks!

no no,you not getting my point. What i'm saying is IF the stock Y pipe mates upto the headers OK then my BAT Y pipe and cat will mate upto the headers OK too(as the BAT Y pipe mates to the pre cats OK so would be the same as the stock Y mating up to the headers!) se what i mean?

I understand what your saying, and if life is kind...it should be the same. Then again, you don't know until you try.

Yeah but then i will have to buy a 3 bolt flange cat and that's usually cheaper from the USA so i'll get stung loads on shipping(again) bloody pom?!

It's what us Aussie call you Brits: POME's! Prisoners of Mother-England

Hey stai have you installed the egr yet? If you havn't have you found another way to install it that would work.

The headers are on but I have not installed the UIM, once that is done then I can show yo the fix, but remember it will be a plastic oval port manifold, but the theory is the same.

Originally posted by Stazi:
It's what us Aussie call you Brits: POME's! Prisoners of Mother-England

off topic
I know Aussies call us poms but never knew what the works meant!! Now i do,ps,England WILL win the Ashes this year

back on topic

look forward to the details when you have these fitted,whats the best supplier for these?(price and availabilty)
thanks

PM Austin - aka akrump47. He just bought a set.

cheers dude

Mondeo V6 - Did you know that you're set up not to accept private messages?

Anyways - I got the headers from Custom Cougars.com You may want to call first to see how many they have still in stock. There were 13 sets left when I ordered a few weeks back, with new shipments expected 60 days or so after that.

The price was $375 shipped

Also, you may be able to find them slightly cheaper on ebay from what some have posted here.

I cannot comment on fitment and such, as they are going in when I take my car to Stazi for the trans pull.

I was thinking about the whole EGR thing, and couldnt you just use the pipe from a cougar? Wouldnt that solve the lenth issue? Just thinking.

-tropictour

Many thanks for the reply-i'll edit my prefs now(didn't know it was set like that

)

Originally posted by tropictour:
I was thinking about the whole EGR thing, and couldnt you just use the pipe from a cougar? Wouldnt that solve the lenth issue? Just thinking.
-tropictour

That has been thought of, since they have 2 differnet types of egr tubes. They actually come up shorter than ours. Since we need to lengthen ours tha twould be pointless to get one. So that is out of the question. Even though tha t was the first thing i thought of also.

Didnt Eric from TN. but the cougar pipe and fit it to his Weapon R's????

Originally posted by Mkingracing:

Originally posted by tropictour:
I was thinking about the whole EGR thing, and couldnt you just use the pipe from a cougar? Wouldnt that solve the lenth issue? Just thinking.
-tropictour

That has been thought of, since they have 2 differnet types of egr tubes. They actually come up shorter than ours. Since we need to lengthen ours tha twould be pointless to get one. So that is out of the question. Even though tha t was the first thing i thought of also.

I dont' get it. Cougar has the same 2.5L V6 as a contour. Same engine = same heads = same LIM = same UIM = same EGR valve location, how is the cougar EGR different than the contour? If anything, how is it shorter? It seems that the distance it would have to travel from the UIM to the header location would be the same

I think in the later years something changedwith the EGR pipe.

Honestly, all this fuss about a stupid pipe is over the top. Anyone with some sort of enginuity can work around it!

I think what everyone is getting at is what i said-the pipe must just be longer so go and buy one rather than hack the original and faff around joining it! The engine is the same,the UIM from where the EGR bolts is the same so the only thing different MUST be the EGR pipe. ie,go and buy the correct EGR pipe(later version) and it will all just bolt up.That's what i figure anyway!!!!!

Originally posted by rkneeshaw3.0:

Originally posted by Mkingracing:

Originally posted by tropictour:
I was thinking about the whole EGR thing, and couldnt you just use the pipe from a cougar? Wouldnt that solve the lenth issue? Just thinking.
-tropictour

That has been thought of, since they have 2 differnet types of egr tubes. They actually come up shorter than ours. Since we need to lengthen ours tha twould be pointless to get one. So that is out of the question. Even though tha t was the first thing i thought of also.

I dont' get it. Cougar has the same 2.5L V6 as a contour. Same engine = same heads = same LIM = same UIM = same EGR valve location, how is the cougar EGR different than the contour? If anything, how is it shorter? It seems that the distance it would have to travel from the UIM to the header location would be the same

From Chattegeres who did this mod a year ago send me all the information needed to do this. And after his research this is wha the wrote me.

First off, no problem. Now the Cougar EGR tube, wellsir, I thought it would be longer, too. That was a $45 mistake. Don't bother with it. There are 3 or 4 different part #'s for 2000-2002 Cougar v6 EGR tubes. The one I bought was the exact same as the tube on my v6. It was a whole lot easier to cut the tube and put in that compression fitting to lengthen the tube.

Sorry i was wrong it isn't shorter it is the same length. My fault.

Originally posted by Mkingracing:
Now the Cougar EGR tube, wellsir, I thought it would be longer, too. That was a $45 mistake. Don't bother with it. There are 3 or 4 different part #'s for 2000-2002 Cougar v6 EGR tubes. The one I bought was the exact same as the tube on my v6.

That's because you bought the wrong tube.

Yes there are 3 part numbers for the Cougar.

99 and some very early 2000. (Old EGR valve)

The rest of 2000 and very early 2001. (New EGR valve and old pipe placement)

The rest of 2001 & on. (New EGR & new pipe placement)

You want the last revision. It should be as simple as that.

Its as easy as this:

$3.00, 5/8" compression fitting from Home Depot, two minutes with a pipe cutter, one minute tightening it with a wrench. EGR problem solved. I don't see why is everyone making such a big deal over the EGR issue.

Originally posted by Mondeo V6:
,whats the best supplier for these?(price and availabilty)
thanks

Customcougars.com was the cheapest after shipping that I could find. There were cheaper sets on ebay, but the shipping charges were outragous on some of them. IIRC, CC.com said they just got a large shipment in. They also had them here in 2 days.

Originally posted by Jason43:

Originally posted by Mondeo V6:
,whats the best supplier for these?(price and availabilty)
thanks

Customcougars.com was the cheapest after shipping that I could find. There were cheaper sets on ebay, but the shipping charges were outragous on some of them. IIRC, CC.com said they just got a large shipment in. They also had them here in 2 days.

http://www.sromagazine.com/shop/productlisting40-7774.html

362.00 shipped

Between customer service and the quickness of shipping I'd stick ith custom cougars. I can vouch or 'em since those are my headers in the pic.

Not only that but we know that the ones from Custom Cougars website are the newwest ones as far as updates are concerned.

Spend the extra $12.00 or the security and piece of mind.

Originally posted by Bk4293:
Between customer service and the quickness of shipping I'd stick ith custom cougars. I can vouch or 'em since those are my headers in the pic.

Not only that but we know that the ones from Custom Cougars website are the newwest ones as far as updates are concerned.

Spend the extra $12.00 or the security and piece of mind.

Actually the compnay i showed is all out of stock just sold 50 of them since january.

Now custom cougars is the choice, but there headers are not polished like others i have seen or are they??

The headers I got from them were polished. The y-pipe wasn't. Didn't matter to me anyways since they are out of sight.

The ones in the pics that Stazi posted for my car didn't look too polished to me, but like stated, Whos gonna see them?

Originally posted by Jason43:
Its as easy as this:

$3.00, 5/8" compression fitting from Home Depot, two minutes with a pipe cutter, one minute tightening it with a wrench. EGR problem solved. I don't see why is everyone making such a big deal over the EGR issue.

Thanks Jason, that was my point I was trying to get across - but some people are thicker than tar.

You can't even see the headers on the Duratech so they could be poop brown (like the stock manifolds

) for all it matters.

And the headers from Weapon aren't polished; but are shiny cos they are SS.

Originally posted by Stazi:

Originally posted by Jason43:
Its as easy as this:

$3.00, 5/8" compression fitting from Home Depot, two minutes with a pipe cutter, one minute tightening it with a wrench. EGR problem solved. I don't see why is everyone making such a big deal over the EGR issue.

Thanks Jason, that was my point I was trying to get across - but some people are thicker than tar.

I'm just amazed that people are taking on the task of installing the headers, which is a royal pita, and they're stressing out over something as simple as the egr.

Custom Cougars and SP Motorsports haven't replied to my emails-are there any US suppliers that will ship to England,UK?

Originally posted by Mondeo V6:
Custom Cougars and SP Motorsports haven't replied to my emails-are there any US suppliers that will ship to England,UK?

You have to call them. james never answers his emails he told me. Maybe once every 4 days if that.

I was jsut wondering on the condition of the headers. i saw some high poolished from the box and othe not polished at all? Just nwating to know what i should expect when they arrive.

I just don't have hte headers in front of me, so i would like to be fully equicped with equipment so when i put my headers on there won't be any long peroid of down time.
Just want to be prepared.

Originally posted by Mkingracing:

Originally posted by Mondeo V6:
Custom Cougars and SP Motorsports haven't replied to my emails-are there any US suppliers that will ship to England,UK?

You have to call them. james never answers his emails he told me. Maybe once every 4 days if that.

Just a headsup. I've been in contact with Joe @ SPMotorSports, and sadly, his Father has passed away. He's currently making arrangements for his Mother in Maryland, while you can understand that being rough when he's in Michigan. He will more than likely be out of the shop for a while to go down to Maryland to finalize things. Please be aware of this, as Joe would not ignore your calls/emails if you were trying to contact him.

Mark

Originally posted by Y2KSVT:

Originally posted by Mkingracing:

Originally posted by Mondeo V6:
Custom Cougars and SP Motorsports haven't replied to my emails-are there any US suppliers that will ship to England,UK?

You have to call them. james never answers his emails he told me. Maybe once every 4 days if that.

Just a headsup. I've been in contact with Joe @ SPMotorSports, and sadly, his Father has passed away. He's currently making arrangements for his Mother in Maryland, while you can understand that being rough when he's in Michigan. He will more than likely be out of the shop for a while to go down to Maryland to finalize things. Please be aware of this, as Joe would not ignore your calls/emails if you were trying to contact him.

Mark

Many thanks for that Mark. It did strike me as strange as Joe has always answered emails in the past(usually same day!) and was a top man to deal with when i got the SVT LIM from them!!(They were the cheapest by far on that too) I'm in no rush so will wait for his return. Please pass on my condolences if you are in contact with him.

so being that i have a 2002 v6 cougar, the weapon-r headers will fit with me making no adjustments to my EGR?...if so that is awesome:)

Originally posted by ContourGuy9817:
so being that i have a 2002 v6 cougar, the weapon-r headers will fit with me making no adjustments to my EGR?...if so that is awesome:)

Do me a favour in that case-kindly go to your dealer and get the part number for the EGR tube for your car! They should be able to find if from the reg/VIN.

Originally posted by Mondeo V6:
Custom Cougars and SP Motorsports haven't replied to my emails-are there any US suppliers that will ship to England,UK?

Try AutocraftSVE in the UK, they ship in from CC

Well I got my headers here today. They look easily as good as my MSDS headers were insofar as construction quality. Even better, the welding flash is already ground off on the inside of the headers so that they are smooth. My MSDS headers had pieces of MIG welding wire sticking up inside that I had to grind out when I got them. These look very good and the welds don't look bad at all to me. The gauge of the metal looks thicker than the MSDS headers to me as well. The y-pipe looks pretty good too!

I have no idea what the bitching is about!

Oh yeah, I got them for $385 shipped through Deepstage Motorsports in Killeen Texas, but I don't know if that price is for everyone since I did so much business through them. It might be obtainable in a group buy.

Originally posted by DemonSVT:

Originally posted by Mkingracing:
Now the Cougar EGR tube, wellsir, I thought it would be longer, too. That was a $45 mistake. Don't bother with it. There are 3 or 4 different part #'s for 2000-2002 Cougar v6 EGR tubes. The one I bought was the exact same as the tube on my v6.

That's because you bought the wrong tube.

Yes there are 3 part numbers for the Cougar.

99 and some very early 2000. (Old EGR valve)

The rest of 2000 and very early 2001. (New EGR valve and old pipe placement)

The rest of 2001 & on. (New EGR & new pipe placement)

You want the last revision. It should be as simple as that.

Does anyone know the part # for the new EGR tube?

Originally posted by Obie1:

Does anyone know the part # for the new EGR tube?

checkout the first link of the last post. there you can find both motorcraft and ford part numbers

Originally posted by my csvt:

Originally posted by Obie1:

Does anyone know the part # for the new EGR tube?

checkout the first link of the last post. there you can find both motorcraft and ford part numbers

I mean Which one of these is the one that will fit with the headers, that you won't have to extend, or am I confused and they all will be too short

Originally posted by Obie1:

Originally posted by my csvt:

Originally posted by Obie1:

Does anyone know the part # for the new EGR tube?

checkout the first link of the last post. there you can find both motorcraft and ford part numbers

I mean Which one of these is the one that will fit with the headers, that you won't have to extend, or am I confused and they all will be too short

I think its the cougar 02+ EGR pipe. I think DemonSVT mentioned a few posts up that the 02+ pipe should be longer. Ive been meaning to get over to a Mercury dealer and check the length.
-tropictour

Originally posted by tropictour:

Originally posted by Obie1:

Originally posted by my csvt:

Originally posted by Obie1:

Does anyone know the part # for the new EGR tube?

checkout the first link of the last post. there you can find both motorcraft and ford part numbers

I mean Which one of these is the one that will fit with the headers, that you won't have to extend, or am I confused and they all will be too short

I think its the cougar 02+ EGR pipe. I think DemonSVT mentioned a few posts up that the 02+ pipe should be longer. Ive been meaning to get over to a Mercury dealer and check the length.
-tropictour

Please do that, we need confirmation. ChattaVegasSE installed these headers & NONE of the EGR tubes he picked up worked. He ended up doing the compression fitting thingy.

Originally posted by TourDeForce:

Originally posted by tropictour:

Originally posted by Obie1:

Originally posted by my csvt:

Originally posted by Obie1:

Does anyone know the part # for the new EGR tube?

checkout the first link of the last post. there you can find both motorcraft and ford part numbers

I mean Which one of these is the one that will fit with the headers, that you won't have to extend, or am I confused and they all will be too short

I think its the cougar 02+ EGR pipe. I think DemonSVT mentioned a few posts up that the 02+ pipe should be longer. Ive been meaning to get over to a Mercury dealer and check the length.
-tropictour

Please do that, we need confirmation. ChattaVegasSE installed these headers & NONE of the EGR tubes he picked up worked. He ended up doing the compression fitting thingy.

........did anyone ever get anywere with this???? my WR headers showed up yesterday....i'll have the engine out of the car so if i need to fab something its not a huge deal...but i'd rather just buy a OEM part...